The Pyramid is Top Heavy

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

I will give you some good news. Last yr The shareholders of Citi-bank voted no to a salary increase for the CEO(Vikram Pandit, and BAnk of America also had the question ( vote )on their shareholder proxy. These are non-binding votes, but the boards of these companies honored the shareholders "no" vote. The compensation plans have changed so that their stock bonuses do not vest immediately. Both these banks and J.P. Morgan return about 30 % of profits to shareholders. Of course in the last 5 yrs there has been a small token amount only returned to shareholders.

Typical share buybacks don't benefit the shareholders as promised, but are then distribted to the top executives. So, you look for a company that says it will retire the buyback shares. It is quite true that the top executives run the company for their own benefit. It is obcene what they pay themselves. The shareholder have to put the pressure on.

I own shares of 2 of these stocks and am happy to say I voted for no increase in salary--Which is a bit over 1 million.

Its obvious DF has made money and now has become a proponent of the Republican party because only he worked hard, and is smart enough to utilize the capitalist system. The rest of the pop, must be democrats and are undeserving lowly workers. His wife supports him, so he can play with the fish.


Annette

and then there are many people who utilize the socialist system (wants everything for free) w/o working.

btw; I'd agree that there are too many overpaid CEOs and as a shareholder I am pissed.

 

[Dancing Fire]

since you guys aren't greedy like a CEO ..let me ask you guys this Q...If your boss offered you a raise tomorrow how many of you will turn it down?

Give me a break. Most of us aren't making 20 million a year and asking for another 5 million

How many years has it been since you had a job, DF? And, what did you do for a living before your wife let you be a stay-at-home-husband? I'm confused why you often come across as so bitter when it sounds like you have it pretty d*mn good.

I am not greedy i don't need $20 mil. I'm just hoping to hit a $10 mil lottery.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

since you guys aren't greedy like a CEO ..let me ask you guys this Q...If your boss offered you a raise tomorrow how many of you will turn it down?

Give me a break. Most of us aren't making 20 million a year and asking for another 5 million

How many years has it been since you had a job, DF? And, what did you do for a living before your wife let you be a stay-at-home-husband? I'm confused why you often come across as so bitter when it sounds like you have it pretty d*mn good.

I am not greedy i don't need $20 mil. I'm just hoping to hit a $10 mil lottery.

Don't only broke people buy lotto tickets? How about get a job? Quit buying lobsters w/your food stamps, DF!

 

[Dancing Fire]

since you guys aren't greedy like a CEO ..let me ask you guys this Q...If your boss offered you a raise tomorrow how many of you will turn it down?

Give me a break. Most of us aren't making 20 million a year and asking for another 5 million

How many years has it been since you had a job, DF? And, what did you do for a living before your wife let you be a stay-at-home-husband? I'm confused why you often come across as so bitter when it sounds like you have it pretty d*mn good.

I am not greedy i don't need $20 mil. I'm just hoping to hit a $10 mil lottery.

Don't only broke people buy lotto tickets? How about get a job? Quit buying lobsters w/your food stamps, DF!

yeah,i know. I am tire of eatting lobsters so with my next food stamp check i'll buy me some caviar...

 

[partgypsy]

It's simple, those who have the money, make the rules.

The supreme court even ruled in 2010 that corporations have some of the same rights as people (i.e. personhood, can contribute money to political parties) yet are not subject to the same responsibilities as American citizens. When this happened my mouth literally dropped open. Let's just say, corporations, and the people and money behind the corporations, are going to be the ones making the rules and laws around here. An average citizen, is just along for the ride.

What does that mean? You were born here, or became a naturalized citizen. You worked, you paid your taxes. Yes you use roads but you paid in taxes to pay for those roads, same for garbage pickup, whatever. Maybe you even served in the military. If you were my father or grandfather you were drafted but you were proud to serve your country. If you got called for jury duty you served your duty term (I just did). In turn a person has the right when becoming of age, to vote. They don't have to they can choose to. One person, one vote. They can also contribute to political parties, within certain limits.

Corporations, or rather the people behind corporations, effectively have no cap on the amount they can spent to influence political elections. This is separate from lobbyists (any of you have your own lobbyist? I didn't think so). Think about the very small number of people at the top of these corporations, and the money behind it. It very much expands and distorts the influence of a few people disproportionately on how this country is run. Who is listened to and who is not. It's not even about capitalism. It's about democracy.

And until these issues are redressed, the huge amount of money that is used in lobbying, in hiring politicians after their term all these conflict of interests, I don't think it's going to get better. Because the role of a corporation is to make as much profit, as quickly as it can as possible. It doesn't give a damn about the country it is located in, in fact will try to change the rules to allow it to operate more efficiently even at the detriment who live in that country.

If you want to talk about individual accountability, talk about this. A person doesn't pay their mortgage, they lose their house. Declares bankruptcy, their credit is shot (plus they are on the hook for often repayments any way, depending on the type of debt such as student loans or mortgages or childcare). A corporation can be found guilty of raiding pension funds, illegal stock manipulations, pollute the air or ground illegally, the list goes on. Yes the corporation may be fined, have repcurcussions, heck even be dissolved or go bankrupt. Then all the regular people who had nothing to do with these wrong doings lose their livilihood, their job, their pension. What happens to the people at the top, behind these decisions? The corporation shields them. Typically they have their golden parachutes and move on. So who are the irresponsible ones?

 

[natascha]

You guys do realize that the CEO does not set his own salary? And any large scale budget cuts and layoffs are not decided by the CEO...

 

[Missy]

You guys do realize that the CEO does not set his own salary? And any large scale budget cuts and layoffs are not decided by the CEO...

I think it is all of top management being discussed here and not only CEO's. At least I was referring to all the top brass. And from my experience with specific CEO's and boards etc they have a very large influence on these issues. They are not innocent pawns in this by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="Dancing Fire|1366388031|3430482and then there are many people who utilize the socialist system (wants everything for free) w/o working.

btw; I'd agree that there are too many overpaid CEOs and as a shareholder I am pissed.[/quote]



my very dear DF, the socialists are the corporations......look at the legislation passed in their favor, look at the tax write offs, look at the ability to off shore, look at derivatives, just for starters look at who the socialists really are. wonder why ketchup and pizza can be paid for with food stamps? because the food industry corporations lobbied congress and got their way once again.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I guess DF had an awakening, an expansion of the mind. I wrote mano a mano (stockholder to stockholder) to DF and he agreed that CEO's are overpaid and he is pissed. What a breakthrough!. Now if only he would go back to work, with the dough he made from the capitalist system and do his duty to create more private sector jobs, his high opinion of the capitalist system can continue to make this country great.

But, you cannot be the CEO. That job should be your wifes. We can't trust you not to pay all the profits to yourself.


Yes, there are probably undeserving people who get food stamps, but mainly we care about the kids.

You have come a long way, baby. People on the board should celebrate you new consciousness.

Be well.

Annette

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

Yes, there are probably undeserving people who get food stamps, but mainly we care about the kids.

You have come a long way, baby. People on the board should celebrate you new consciousness.

Be well.

Annette

I do too if the $$$ were spent on the kids,but sadly a lot of those $$$ are spent on drugs and alcohol by the parents...

 

[ksinger]

Hi,

Yes, there are probably undeserving people who get food stamps, but mainly we care about the kids.

You have come a long way, baby. People on the board should celebrate you new consciousness.

Be well.

Annette

I do too if the $$$ were spent on the kids,but sadly a lot of those $$$ are spent on drugs and alcohol by the parents...

Put up or shut up. Support your position that "a lot" of public assistance dollars are being used to buy drugs and alcohol. And furthermore, show me something from those states that do that, that show an actual savings in public monies spent.

And since the kids seem to be your main focus, I'd like to know if you have any ideas of a better solution than cutting off the little public assistance they are receiving via their supposedly undeserving parents.

 

[movie zombie]

so many government workers are lazy and not deserving of the high salary and high pension they receive, DF.
before you start dishing it out remember that your family has fed at the public trough for many years.
and there are those that do not and will not accept your assertion that your family members aren't like that.
rather similar to your stance re assistance for others.

do not punish the children for the sins of their parents. seem to remember reading that somewhere.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

Yes, there are probably undeserving people who get food stamps, but mainly we care about the kids.

You have come a long way, baby. People on the board should celebrate you new consciousness.

Be well.

Annette

I do too if the $$$ were spent on the kids,but sadly a lot of those $$$ are spent on drugs and alcohol by the parents...

Put up or shut up. Support your position that "a lot" of public assistance dollars are being used to buy drugs and alcohol. And furthermore, show me something from those states that do that, that show an actual savings in public monies spent.

And since the kids seem to be your main focus, I'd like to know if you have any ideas of a better solution than cutting off the little public assistance they are receiving via their supposedly undeserving parents.

Of course I do... Create more private sector jobs so that the parents can off of public assistance as soon as possible.Why is it so hard for liberals to understand that when people are on public assistances = they are living at poverty level.

 

[ksinger]

Hi,

Yes, there are probably undeserving people who get food stamps, but mainly we care about the kids.

You have come a long way, baby. People on the board should celebrate you new consciousness.

Be well.

Annette

I do too if the $$$ were spent on the kids,but sadly a lot of those $$$ are spent on drugs and alcohol by the parents...

Put up or shut up. Support your position that "a lot" of public assistance dollars are being used to buy drugs and alcohol. And furthermore, show me something from those states that do that, that show an actual savings in public monies spent.

And since the kids seem to be your main focus, I'd like to know if you have any ideas of a better solution than cutting off the little public assistance they are receiving via their supposedly undeserving parents.

Of course I do... Create more private sector jobs so that the parents can off of public assistance as soon as possible.Why is it so hard for liberals to understand that when people are on public assistances = they are living at poverty level.

Probably because unlike conservatives, we understand that even if the effective corporate tax rate was ZERO, businesses have no mandate, legal obligation, or incentive to create jobs, only to line their own CEO pockets at the cost of the workers - which is exactly what we have seen in the last 30 years, and which WAS the topic of this whole thread from the git go. In fact, they would make even MORE money if they could just replace every worker with a machine. Every CEO's wet dream there. That or outsourcing every well-paying American job to India, another thing that American business does with impunity.

 

[MissStepcut]

You guys do realize that the CEO does not set his own salary? And any large scale budget cuts and layoffs are not decided by the CEO...

So who does decide? The BoD. And why have our boards let things get totally out of hand? There are simply no gatekeepers. Due to a series of bad court decisions, shareholders have very little power to keep corporations in check. On the other hand, big funds are REQUIRED to keep investing in publicly-traded companies. It's a situation of a lot of fat little mice and no cats.

 

[smitcompton]

hI,

4 OUT OF 5 of the top paid executives in the S&P are from Apple. Apple has 137 Billion dollars in excess cash , most of which is overseas so they don't have to pay US taxes if they bring the money back to the US. Almost all devices are made in China. They ought to bring back the money and the jobs.

I do sometimes object to union demands, but someone very smart taught me a long time ago that MANAGEMENT CHEATS. DF,
you would do well to remember that when evaluating the system. The capitalist system, gone amok, almost brought the country to ruin. Yes, MANAGEMENT CHEATS.


aNNETTE

 

[LibbyLA]

And unions never, ever, ever cheat.... Not EVER.

Corporate profits and dividends help fund retirement benefits. Pension plans invest in corporations in hopes of sharing in the profits to pay retirees. My ability to live comfortably when I retire will depend very much on how well the rather sizable investments (as a percentage of my salary) I'm making in my retirement plan perform. Businesses have to make a profit in order to stay in business and keep employees working. Who's to say how much profit is "too much"? Are Tiffany or Neil Lane engagement rings that much better than those made by GOG or Whiteflash?

Don't like Apple's policies? Don't buy Apple products. Simple.

liz

 

[iLander]

And unions never, ever, ever cheat.... Not EVER.

Corporate profits and dividends help fund retirement benefits. Pension plans invest in corporations in hopes of sharing in the profits to pay retirees. My ability to live comfortably when I retire will depend very much on how well the rather sizable investments (as a percentage of my salary) I'm making in my retirement plan perform. Businesses have to make a profit in order to stay in business and keep employees working. Who's to say how much profit is "too much"? Are Tiffany or Neil Lane engagement rings that much better than those made by GOG or Whiteflash?

Don't like Apple's policies? Don't buy Apple products. Simple.

liz

This thread is not about corporate profits, it is about fairness to the employees (most of whom lost their pensions years ago). Please read the original post.

But if the CEO is making over 300 times the salary of their average worker, how much profit will there be? If the top tier of management is skimming such a large chunk of cash, how much profit will there be?

There, I've said it. A lot of CEOs are skimming right off the top.

 

[iLander]

hI,

4 OUT OF 5 of the top paid executives in the S&P are from Apple. Apple has 137 Billion dollars in excess cash , most of which is overseas so they don't have to pay US taxes if they bring the money back to the US. Almost all devices are made in China. They ought to bring back the money and the jobs.

I do sometimes object to union demands, but someone very smart taught me a long time ago that MANAGEMENT CHEATS. DF,
you would do well to remember that when evaluating the system. The capitalist system, gone amok, almost brought the country to ruin. Yes, MANAGEMENT CHEATS.


aNNETTE

I agree. I resent that Apple, who could be doing so much to help the American (still their biggest market) economy, refuses to do so.

 

[MissStepcut]

And unions never, ever, ever cheat.... Not EVER.

Corporate profits and dividends help fund retirement benefits. Pension plans invest in corporations in hopes of sharing in the profits to pay retirees. My ability to live comfortably when I retire will depend very much on how well the rather sizable investments (as a percentage of my salary) I'm making in my retirement plan perform. Businesses have to make a profit in order to stay in business and keep employees working. Who's to say how much profit is "too much"? Are Tiffany or Neil Lane engagement rings that much better than those made by GOG or Whiteflash?

Don't like Apple's policies? Don't buy Apple products. Simple.

liz

This thread is not about corporate profits, it is about fairness to the employees (most of whom lost their pensions years ago). Please read the original post.

But if the CEO is making over 300 times the salary of their average worker, how much profit will there be? If the top tier of management is skimming such a large chunk of cash, how much profit will there be?

There, I've said it. A lot of CEOs are skimming right off the top.

To piggyback off what iLander said, shareholders should be the MOST angry about this. CEOs are taking food right out of your mouth by paying themselves first.