The Pyramid is Top Heavy

[iLander]

Here's the articlet; http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ceos-earn-354-times-more-than-average-worker-203748434.html

I'm not sure if this makes anyone else mad, but it bothers me.

In 1980, the average CEO made 42 times what the average ($34K) worker made. So, it took them a little over a week to match the yearly wage of a worker.

Today, the average CEO makes 354 times more money than the average worker. Which means that in a bit over one day, they will make what Joe Average makes in a Year.

And before you tell me we shouldn't "upset the job creators", remember these people haven't been creating jobs lately, they've been cutting. Making less employees do more work, and pocketing the money. The number of unemployed and under-employed college graduates is staggering.

Have you read a help wanted ad lately? Does it seem like they want an Awful Lot of Skills for very little pay? Does it seem like they are asking for 3-4 people rolled up in one (salary)?

While the CEOs are raking it in, they're taking away pensions, dodging health benefits, and keeping employee hours low.

"Well, they are rewarded for a job well done." Really? Is anyone else rewarded? If the company makes record profits (often by cutting pensions, benefits, and hours!), why does only the CEO get a big bonus? Did he manage to do that all by himself? The bottom-rung worker gets the same as he ever did, but the management guys get big checks.

The top of the pyramid is bleeding the bottom dry. And they wonder why the American economy just. won't. grow.

Pisses. Me. Off.

Does it bother anybody else?

 

[Missy]

Oh yes it bothers me a lot. We were just discussing a similar topic today at work. The company says they are so poor haha so no one has gotten a pay increase for a few years at least yet the top management including the CEO are raking it in. It pisses me off big time. We do all the heavy lifting so to speak making the actual money for them and they reap the reward. Now with the government cutting medical reimbursements I am looking forward (insert sarcasm please) to seeing what they plan to do with that. Cause no way am I even going to consider a pay cut. I would seriously rather leave. And I will if it comes to that. Sadly not everyone gets pissed enough and that is why the status quo continues.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="iLander|1366236714|3429247

The top of the pyramid is bleeding the bottom dry. And they wonder why the American economy just. won't. grow.

[/quote]
I know why,b/c of the anti business policies coming out of Wash. DC have had put a stranglehold on our economy. At this point of the economy cycle we should be producing 300K + jobs per month not 88K jobs like we did in March.

 

[iLander]

DF- Oh, please . . . that is just network "news" distraction to keep you from realizing the problem is the corporations. The economy is stagnant because wages are stagnant, because top guys are lining their pockets.

Missy - No pay increase?! That is such bull. The top guys just have more $$ to add to the bottom line for every person they fire.

You know, it's not anything personal with me. I've been self-employed for many, many years. I just feel bad that people are being taken advantage of this badly.

 

[packrat]

It's something that's torked me off for years.

 

[iheartscience]

Yep, wages have stagnated for everyone except those at the top. Ridiculous.

 

[Missy]

DF- Oh, please . . . that is just network "news" distraction to keep you from realizing the problem is the corporations. The economy is stagnant because wages are stagnant, because top guys are lining their pockets.

Missy - No pay increase?! That is such bull. The top guys just have more $$ to add to the bottom line for every person they fire.

You know, it's not anything personal with me. I've been self-employed for many, many years. I just feel bad that people are being taken advantage of this badly.

Yes, a few years ago they fired all the PhD psychologists at my clinic and hired psychologists with MS degrees so they could pay them less and kept on one PhD psychologist on to sign off on the Psychologists with the MS degrees. We're talking about psychologists who have been with the clinic since its inception. Sad.

Technically all the clinicians are self employed (independent contractor) but that's another BS tactic they use to get away with not paying part of our SS tax or to give us any benefits. No health benefits (ironic isn't it?), no vacation, no personal days etc. Nada nada nada. You might say why not get another job? Because unless I want to open my own practice (no thanks, considered it once and I just want to concentrate on giving the best possible care to the individual rather than be concerned with the business aspect of running a practice) that's just the way it is everywhere you go. It's an abuse of the system for sure.

I chose to do what I do for a reason and I knew it wouldn't make me rich but I thought it would provide a comfortable lifestyle while doing some good in the world. Serving a population that many people would rather not deal with or even think about. However, things have changed in my profession (as they have for many) and for the worse. I don't know how people can survive financially in NYC (and many other places as well) anymore. Thank goodness we have my dh's job but if we didn't? I think we would have to move. And then I certainly wouldn't be able to continue to make a difference at my current job.

Sorry for the mini threadjack. Let's just say I wholeheartedly agree with your observations iLander.

Yep, wages have stagnated for everyone except those at the top. Ridiculous.

Totally. I just didn't realize how extreme the difference was. 354 times the wage of the average worker. How is that OK?

 

[Missy]

I don't know the exact numbers but I do know that the Costco CEO is much more equitable in his thinking regarding this issue. So he doesn't take a huge difference in pay vs his average worker. Instead he takes a more reasonable one. Sure he still makes a lot (and he deserves to) but it is a much more fair difference. So there are some thoughtful CEO's out there. But the majority of them? Not as ethical or moral. They really only care about themselves.

Just another reason I love Costco. That and the lighting is incredible for diamond viewing.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Yes, I think that this is one of the main issues that underlies our current economic challenges as well as an increasing cultural divide into a class system.

 

[anne_h]

I think it's unfair to blame just the CEOs. For public companies, especially larger ones, there is a Board of Directors operating behind the scenes, and one of their responsibilities is to manage executive compensation. So they are really making the decisions on behalf of the firm and its shareholders.

In the US, CEO tenure is low compared to some other countries, such as Japan. So with this regular turnover, it's no surprise US executive compensation tends to be heavily focused on shorter term results, which can often drive business decisions that are not always in the best long-term interest of the firm. So execs do well, but the firm (and its employees) may not in the longer-term. But by then then the execs have moved on.

I would love to say we should all vote with our feet (ie: change jobs), but I realize that is not an option for everyone.

Anne

 

[Dancing Fire]

I want her job

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/26/alameda-county-administrator-to-get-423644-year-after-retirement/

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="missy|1366245700|

Totally. I just didn't realize how extreme the difference was. 354 times the wage of the average worker. How is that OK?[/quote]


It is call "capitalism"...

 

[Missy]

[quote="missy|1366245700|]

Totally. I just didn't realize how extreme the difference was. 354 times the wage of the average worker. How is that OK?

It is call "capitalism"... [/quote][/quote][/quote]

There are different types of capitalism DF.
Unrestrained or turbo-capitalism vs responsible capitalism to name two. One can help the economy and the other can hurt it.

It is a way more complex issue than just saying it is called capitalism.

 

[chrono]

I think it's unfair to blame just the CEOs. For public companies, especially larger ones, there is a Board of Directors operating behind the scenes, and one of their responsibilities is to manage executive compensation. So they are really making the decisions on behalf of the firm and its shareholders.

In the US, CEO tenure is low compared to some other countries, such as Japan. So with this regular turnover, it's no surprise US executive compensation tends to be heavily focused on shorter term results, which can often drive business decisions that are not always in the best long-term interest of the firm. So execs do well, but the firm (and its employees) may not in the longer-term. But by then then the execs have moved on.

I would love to say we should all vote with our feet (ie: change jobs), but I realize that is not an option for everyone.

Anne

The Board of Directors are made up of CEOs from other corporations and are paid in the thousands to attend a single hour long meeting. All in all, they meet about 5 times a year. Given that they are also raking it in big time in their own company and by being on the Board, there is little to no incentive to curb pay raises and bonuses for the top echelons of large corporations.

 

[iheartscience]

I don't know the exact numbers but I do know that the Costco CEO is much more equitable in his thinking regarding this issue. So he doesn't take a huge difference in pay vs his average worker. Instead he takes a more reasonable one. Sure he still makes a lot (and he deserves to) but it is a much more fair difference. So there are some thoughtful CEO's out there. But the majority of them? Not as ethical or moral. They really only care about themselves.

Just another reason I love Costco. That and the lighting is incredible for diamond viewing.

Yep, and Costco manages to be very profitable while paying its employees a living wage. I have friends who started there in college and stayed because it pays well and is a great place to work.

 

[iheartscience]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

 

[iLander]

I want her job

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/26/alameda-county-administrator-to-get-423644-year-after-retirement/

I'll see your one overpaid government worker and raise you 10 overpaid CEOs:

Ticker Company CEO Name Year Compensation ($)
GOOG GOOGLE INC Eric E. Schmidt 2011 $100,980,262
ORCL ORACLE CORP Lawrence J. Ellison 2012 $96,160,696
CBS CBS CORP Leslie Moonves 2011 $69,900,677
GBL GAMCO INVESTORS INC Mario J. Gabelli 2011 $61,693,390
KOS KOSMOS ENERGY LTD Brian F. Maxted 2011 $57,553,715
CACC CREDIT ACCEPTANCE CORP Brett A. Roberts 2012 $54,282,500
DISCA DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS, INC. David M. Zaslav 2012 $49,932,867
ANF ABERCROMBIE & FITCH Michael S. Jeffries 2011 $48,069,473
HCA HCA HOLDINGS INC Richard M. Bracken 2012 $46,359,246
DIS DISNEY (WALT) CO Robert A. Iger 2012 $40,227,848

 

[iLander]

[quote="missy|1366245700|

Totally. I just didn't realize how extreme the difference was. 354 times the wage of the average worker. How is that OK?

It is call "capitalism"... [/quote]

I think the word you are looking for is "Exploitation"

Walmart's CEO Paid 1,034 Times More Than The Median Walmart Worker

Meet Mike Duke, king of the CEO-to-worker pay ratio.

The Walmart CEO gets paid 1,034 times more than the median Walmart worker, according to a new analysis by PayScale, a salary information website.

Duke, who raked in $23.15 million last year, contended in December that the retail giant pays "competitive wages." Half of Walmart workers made less than $22,400 in 2012, according to PayScale, which is below poverty level for a family of four.

Walmart spokesman Randy Hargrove called PayScale's calculation "inflated" in a statement provided to The Huffington Post on Friday.

"His [Duke's] fiscal 2012 base salary of $1.26 million is less than 7 percent of his total compensation and he will only earn a significant majority of his overall compensation package if the company meets performance goals aligned with shareholder value and our key financial priorities – growth, leverage and returns," Hargrove wrote. "The fact is we offer unprecedented opportunity for associate advancement and we give our associates the chance to share in the company’s success."

Notice the emphasis on "shareholder value". What better way to increase profits than to reduce employees hours, pay, and staff levels? Why work hard to sell a quality product at a fair price when you can just fire people?

 

[iLander]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

I wanted to bold that, Thing20f2, because that is IT exactly!

An article about a McDonald's worker:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-12/mcdonald-s-8-25-man-and-8-75-million-ceo-shows-pay-gap.html

Tyree Johnson scrubs himself with a bar of soap in a McDonald’s (MCD) bathroom and puts on fresh deodorant. He stashes his toiletries in a Kenneth Cole bag, a gift from his mother who works the counter at Macy’s, and hops on an El train. His destination: another McDonald’s.
Johnson isn’t one of Chicago’s many homeless people who seek shelter in fast-food joints. He’s a McDonald’s employee, at both stores -- one in the Loop, the other about a mile away in the shadow of Holy Name Cathedral.
He needs the makeshift baths because hygiene and appearance are part of his annual compensation reviews. Even with frequent scrubbings, he said before a recent shift, it’s hard to remove the essence of the greasy food he works around.
“I hate when my boss tells me she won’t give me a raise because she can smell me,” he said.
Johnson, 44, needs the two paychecks to pay rent for his apartment at a single-room occupancy hotel on the city’s north side. While he’s worked at McDonald’s stores for two decades, he still doesn’t get 40 hours a week and makes $8.25 an hour, minimum wage in Illinois.

 

[iheartscience]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

I wanted to bold that, Thing20f2, because that is IT exactly!

An article about a McDonald's worker:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-12/mcdonald-s-8-25-man-and-8-75-million-ceo-shows-pay-gap.html

Tyree Johnson scrubs himself with a bar of soap in a McDonald’s (MCD) bathroom and puts on fresh deodorant. He stashes his toiletries in a Kenneth Cole bag, a gift from his mother who works the counter at Macy’s, and hops on an El train. His destination: another McDonald’s.
Johnson isn’t one of Chicago’s many homeless people who seek shelter in fast-food joints. He’s a McDonald’s employee, at both stores -- one in the Loop, the other about a mile away in the shadow of Holy Name Cathedral.
He needs the makeshift baths because hygiene and appearance are part of his annual compensation reviews. Even with frequent scrubbings, he said before a recent shift, it’s hard to remove the essence of the greasy food he works around.
“I hate when my boss tells me she won’t give me a raise because she can smell me,” he said.
Johnson, 44, needs the two paychecks to pay rent for his apartment at a single-room occupancy hotel on the city’s north side. While he’s worked at McDonald’s stores for two decades, he still doesn’t get 40 hours a week and makes $8.25 an hour, minimum wage in Illinois.

Wow, that is unbelievably terrible. That poor man.

 

[Missy]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

I wanted to bold that, Thing20f2, because that is IT exactly!

An article about a McDonald's worker:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-12/mcdonald-s-8-25-man-and-8-75-million-ceo-shows-pay-gap.html

Tyree Johnson scrubs himself with a bar of soap in a McDonald’s (MCD) bathroom and puts on fresh deodorant. He stashes his toiletries in a Kenneth Cole bag, a gift from his mother who works the counter at Macy’s, and hops on an El train. His destination: another McDonald’s.
Johnson isn’t one of Chicago’s many homeless people who seek shelter in fast-food joints. He’s a McDonald’s employee, at both stores -- one in the Loop, the other about a mile away in the shadow of Holy Name Cathedral.
He needs the makeshift baths because hygiene and appearance are part of his annual compensation reviews. Even with frequent scrubbings, he said before a recent shift, it’s hard to remove the essence of the greasy food he works around.
“I hate when my boss tells me she won’t give me a raise because she can smell me,” he said.
Johnson, 44, needs the two paychecks to pay rent for his apartment at a single-room occupancy hotel on the city’s north side. While he’s worked at McDonald’s stores for two decades, he still doesn’t get 40 hours a week and makes $8.25 an hour, minimum wage in Illinois.

Wow, that is unbelievably terrible. That poor man.

And that is "capitalism" in the worst sense of the word. And it will drive the economy into the ground. Good capitalism allows people to earn good and fair wages for good honest work and moves the economy forward in a positive direction.
That poor man indeed. They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

Thing,IYO what should the minimum be?
btw; I love Bill Maher...

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't know the exact numbers but I do know that the Costco CEO is much more equitable in his thinking regarding this issue. So he doesn't take a huge difference in pay vs his average worker. Instead he takes a more reasonable one. Sure he still makes a lot (and he deserves to) but it is a much more fair difference. So there are some thoughtful CEO's out there. But the majority of them? Not as ethical or moral. They really only care about themselves.

Just another reason I love Costco. That and the lighting is incredible for diamond viewing.

Mr. W. Craig Jelinek , 61
Chief Exec. Officer, Pres and Director

919.00K

 

[MichelleCarmen]

It is ridiculous how much some CEOs are paid. They do not need that much to live off of and it's shameful that they do not pay their employees a living wage and some have to work two jobs just to pay the rent.

It all trickles down, too...In Washington State, the min wage is $9.04, which is the highest in the country. I was clicking around on jobs one CL one day and found a job listing that was hiring taste testers for a juicing company and it stated legal jargen and apparently, a business can pay teens LESS than min wage so the ad specifically was hiring teens to get out of paying them the full min wage...the lower wage is in the $7.00 range.

 

[ksinger]

Read it and weep.

Literally.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/article.cfm?piece=1048

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I read the reason CEO's salaries have increased so much is the same reason most people are either satisfied or unsatified with their own lifestyle. It is how they view what others are making. Thus a CEO wants to be thought of as a good or great CEO, at least equal to or better than another high paid CEO, and so demands the salary of the so called better CEOs. It just keep going.

Regular people will equate themselves with their own social circle. If the majority of them earn 100,000, and you do as well, you will be pretty satisfied with your lot. If you make 100,000 and your social group makes 250,000, you will be a dissatisfied person with your lot. It is not a function of needing the money in the above cases.

Of course it would be nice if all could make a living wage. Mc Donalds, in some locations , is requiring a college degree to get the job. Now, I think it has to do with the failure of the Ed system. I am also from Chicago now. When I moved here many yrs ago my brother told me not to expect workers here to be as good as workers in New York, where I was coming from. I found it to be true. I have had people come in undershirts for an interview, many looking so bad you wanted them out of your office. Not until we get over the fear of criticizing low paid workers into how to get a job, how to keep a job, how to speak English so others can understand you, we will always have people making the minimum wage, and barely makig it.

DF, it is hard to read anyone who can't see beyond their own narrow thinking. Try to give some breadth to your mind.


Its tough out there.

Annette

 

[iheartscience]

Bill Maher had a great blog post about this a couple of days ago.

"When we don't force huge fast food corporations to pay a living wage, yes, their profits go up (McDonald's profits were up 130% during the recession) and their stockholders benefit -- but their employees need to go on public assistance and we, the taxpayers, end up footing the bill.

Why should I have to finance some rich prick's McDonald's Corporation stock staying at 99.34 instead of 97.86?"

http://www.real-time-with-bill-mahe...h-bill-maher-blog/2013/4/17/not-lovin-it.html

Thing,IYO what should the minimum be?
btw; I love Bill Maher...

The minimum should be enough for a working adult to live off of. I'm not an expert and am not sure what that number is, but it certainly isn't $7.25/hour.

And you can't possibly love Bill Maher, he disagrees with you on every issue.

 

[ksinger]

[quote="missy|1366245700|

Totally. I just didn't realize how extreme the difference was. 354 times the wage of the average worker. How is that OK?

It is call "capitalism"... [/quote]

No, DF, it's called greed, and if you were versed in the Judeo-Christian paradigm, you would know that at one time, greed was not the virtue we have made it, but was a cardinal sin, or at the very least, something to be ashamed of at the end of the day.

And NO, someone wanting a roof over his head and food on his table is NOT greedy. Someone wanting 500 million in the bank IS, simple as that.

And in any culture, money IS power. And in the article I linked, there is the irrefutable observation that "America’s oligarchs are arguably more powerful today than during the robber baron era at the turn of the 19th century." and there is "little to prevent oligarchs from exercising the power of money in a manner that is profoundly unequal...full political equality, even in the most liberal democracy, is impossible as long as concentrated wealth places grossly unequal political influence in the hands of a few citizens."

 

[Dancing Fire]

Karen...you can call it GREED or what ever!!. my grandfather escaped from communism China to capitalism here in the U.S. where he can open his own business.

 

[ksinger]

Karen...you can call it GREED or what ever!!. my grandfather escaped from communism China to capitalism here in the U.S. where he can open his own business.

Predictably, you completely miss the point. Even your anecdote is irrelevant.