The never ending diamond search

[allygirl]

Just wanted to see if any of you thought I''d be better off going to see it, reporting back here what the girdle states and THEN ordering in a few days if you all think it is okay. I don''t want to keep putting this off....but I want to make sure that everything is okay!

 

[mrssalvo]

ally, if the girdle is thin, med, or slightly thick you''re fine. you want to stay away from ex. thin because it increases the chances of the stone being chipped or ex. thick b/c hidden weight would be there. I would be VERY surprised if the girdle of your stone wasn''t in the right range. Please don''t forget, you are looking at a BRANDED stone which is held to very high standards. Just buying the brand should give you confidence. it''s like someone who is buying A CUT ABOVE (ACA) stone from WF. It''s going to fall into the ideal numbers/specs or it wouldn''t have made the branding label. The stone''s going to be fine, if you like it when you see it, GO FOR IT

 

[allygirl]

OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Saw the diamond today!! I now see what the big deal is about a LAZARRE!

I have NEVER in my life seen a diamond sparkle and shine like that! Talk about fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[allygirl]

MRSSALVO AND DS (especially)---------


I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The jeweler just called and she said that the diamond that they sent back to AGS to get the newer certificate has now been graded down to a VS2 instead of a VS1!!!! What are your thoughts???? I don''t know what to do at this point! I''m pretty aggravated and VERY UPSET

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE RESPOND AS SOON AS YOU CAN!

I doubt that she''ll give me any of my money back ESPECIALLY For the deposit on the verragio ring!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[:)]

I don''t think you should be angry about it, it isn''t like the jeweler did something to you, she simply sent it for the newer report at your request. Even in the knowledge section where they compare labs there was a GIA stone that was sent that came back with a lower clarity grade.

"To underline the subjectivity of diamond grading it is worth noting that stone #10 already had a 6 month old GIA-GTL report, but was inadvertently resubmitted to GIA-GTL (it was to have been sent to for an AGSL report, which explains its absence). The color was given the same grade, but the clarity on the GIA-GTL report was VS1 on the earlier October 2003 report and VS2 on the April 2004 report. In discussions with the GIA about this particular stone they noted that in their private records on both occasions that it was a border line VS1 / VS2. "

A stone''s clarity can lower just with regular wear and tear - that is why I have seem recommendations by some people against wearing an IF or F stone as it is possible to lower the grade just by wearing it (the recommendations being if it was bought for investment or collectors purposes, they then don''t recommend it b/c you can lower the value that way).

What matters is if you like the stone or not!

 

[allygirl]

THANKS for the quick reply. I am not angry with the jeweler so much, I am just angry that it isn''t coming back the exact way that the original report did. It is supposed to be a new stone (never owned before or so I thought) so why would it come back different? Normal wear and tear from just having people look at it?? Don''t you think the pricing should now also be a little different??? I really want to have it work out, but I wonder if I should ask what else changed? If clarity changed , does that mean there will be more inclusions? (Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question)? ANY more help ANYONE can give me I certainly appreciate it! I have to let her know if we should move forward. Can it still come back an AGS triple zero if it''s a VS2? (i believe it can).

HELP!!! PLEASE!

 

[Demelza]

Date: 9/26/2006 1:23:01 PM
Author: allygirl
MRSSALVO AND DS (especially)---------




I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The jeweler just called and she said that the diamond that they sent back to AGS to get the newer certificate has now been graded down to a VS2 instead of a VS1!!!! What are your thoughts???? I don''t know what to do at this point! I''m pretty aggravated and VERY UPSET

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PLEASE RESPOND AS SOON AS YOU CAN!


I doubt that she''ll give me any of my money back ESPECIALLY For the deposit on the verragio ring!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With all due respect, I''m not sure why you''re angry at your jeweler. Stones are graded by human beings, not machines, and it''s not an exact science by any means. Mrs. Salvo''s stone came back one color grade higher when it was resubmitted for grading. It''s unfortunate that the stone did not receive the same (or higher) clarity grade, but it doesn''t change the fact that it''s still the stone you fell in love with. The grade I would be most interested in is the light performance grade -- is it still considered an AGS 0 under the new system? In any case, I would discuss with the jeweler a small adjustment in price since the stone came back with a slightly lower clarity grade, but the fact that it''s now a VS2 instead of a VS1 doesn''t significantly change its value and certainly doesn''t change its appearance. Was there any discussion between you and the jeweler before the stone went out to AGS about what would happen if the color/clarity/cut was higher or lower than the original report?

 

[:)]

Sure, it can still be 000 even if it is an SI2! If she already knows that the clarity is different, then she should also already know if it is a 000 (it will be on the report). Take a peek at my post again and see where when they asked GIA about the vs1 to vs2 change, their response is that when they checked their notes that both times it was a borderline stone - one day they gave it a vs1, the next vs2 (due to the subjectivity of grading). You may want to discuss this with the jeweler and ask for a pricing adjustment on the stone (not the setting) due to the different clarity grade - it is possible this may be in your favor! vs1 and vs2 are both lovely clarities!

 

[allygirl]

I am not upset with the jeweler really, what I am upset about is that my gut feeling has come true. My jeweler assured me OVER AND OVER that this would come back exactly the same. I asked her what would happen if it didn''t and she said that of course I would not be obligated to still purchase the diamond. She actually said the words "I AM 100% positive that it will come back as the original certificate". Problem is that the setting is being made exactly to the diamond specs. I realize that VS2 and VS1 are not that big of a difference, but if the clarity has changed , who knows what else has!!! If they know the clarity is different ,shouldn''t they know everything else???

Your thoughts?

 

[mrssalvo]

I agree with demelza. Did it still come back an AGS000, that''s where I''d be more upset for the difference. You saw the stone and loved it, it''s still a great clarity with a VS2 so I''d talk to your jeweler about adjusting the price, I doubt it will be much different, so it''s in line to the price of the VS2 and proceed with your setting. My stone did come back a grade higher in color but I could probably send it back again next week and someone else could look at it and regrade back to the original H grade. I wouldn''t sweat it at all. you''ve still got a gorgeous well cut stone.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 9/26/2006 1:50:12 PM
Author: allygirl



THANKS for the quick reply. I am not angry with the jeweler so much, I am just angry that it isn't coming back the exact way that the original report did. It is supposed to be a new stone (never owned before or so I thought) so why would it come back different? Normal wear and tear from just having people look at it?? Don't you think the pricing should now also be a little different??? I really want to have it work out, but I wonder if I should ask what else changed? If clarity changed , does that mean there will be more inclusions? (Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question)? ANY more help ANYONE can give me I certainly appreciate it! I have to let her know if we should move forward. Can it still come back an AGS triple zero if it's a VS2? (i believe it can).


HELP!!! PLEASE!

The clarity grade and cut grade have nothing to do with each other -- you can absolutely have a VS2 receive a 0 cut grade. I've even seen I1 stones with a 0 cut grade. The stone likely didn't undergo any actual physical change, but it was graded by different graders with different eyes and slightly different opinions about what constitutes a VS1 clarity grade. The stone may have been borderline VS1/VS2 to begin with and the graders this time around were a bit more strict. This is not an unusual scenario and it's unfortunate your jeweler did not discuss this possibility with you ahead of time. I agree that she should adjust the price to reflect the new grade, but don't expect a huge price reduction. The difference in value is not that significant. Frankly, I would be much more concerned with the light performance grade than I would the clarity grade. Remember that diamond grading is not an exact science -- it's subjective and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that not all graders, even within the same organization, would agree exactly on a clarity or color grade.

ETA I see that the jeweler did not warn you this could happen, and, in fact, assured you the grade would remain exactly the same across the board. That's too bad because, really and truly, this is not a big deal at all (unless, for whatever reason, you absolutely must have a stone with a VS1 grade or higher). This does not in any way suggest that anything else about the stone has changed or that anyone is being less than forthright; it's just the nature of diamond grading when it comes to somewhat subjective measures like color and clarity.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/26/2006 2:01:34 PM
Author: allygirl
I am not upset with the jeweler really, what I am upset about is that my gut feeling has come true. My jeweler assured me OVER AND OVER that this would come back exactly the same. I asked her what would happen if it didn't and she said that of course I would not be obligated to still purchase the diamond. She actually said the words 'I AM 100% positive that it will come back as the original certificate'. Problem is that the setting is being made exactly to the diamond specs. I realize that VS2 and VS1 are not that big of a difference, but if the clarity has changed , who knows what else has!!! If they know the clarity is different ,shouldn't they know everything else???


Your thoughts?

ally, calm down. seriously, this is not a big deal at all. definitely not worth returning the diamond IMO. again, did it still make the AGS000 grade? I'd guess all the numbers came back the same and it's just the clarity that was borderline so the grader went with the VS2. I'd be very surprised for suddenly all of the angles and the diameter to be completely off. I knew when we sent my stone back to ags it might not come back with the 0 for the light grade. I was happy to find out it did but it would not of changed my mine on the stone if it didn't. Please, take a deep breath, it's fine, i'm sure the rest of the numbers are wonderful and please remember you SAW the stone and loved it. you'll be wearing the stone, not the little paper from AGS. And, the setting will not be made to the exact crown and pavilion angle's. some can even be adjusted to accomodate sligtly larger stones when necessary so you really don't have to worry there.

 

[allygirl]

MRSSALVO,

I''d like to apologize for me panicking. It was just such a HUGE shock.

I do not know yet if the stone came back ags 000. What do I do then if it didn''t? The one thing that I did not look at when I saw the stone was in the ISEE2. I totally forgot but figured if it came back okay from AGS , I''d be fine. Do you think that I should worry about not seeing it under ISEE2??? I''m concerned now.

I just felt like FINALLY I had made a decision and I hope that this is not going to change everything. I''m going to drop the jeweler an e-mail (that''s how she told me about the stone--still not sure why she didn''t call, but I assume that she figured I was at work and wanted me to know as soon as possible.) I''ll let you know the outcome.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP! You have really calmed me down. I was starting to get nuts over it!!! THANKS!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/26/2006 2:22:43 PM
Author: allygirl

I do not know yet if the stone came back ags 000. What do I do then if it didn''t? The one thing that I did not look at when I saw the stone was in the ISEE2. I totally forgot but figured if it came back okay from AGS , I''d be fine. Do you think that I should worry about not seeing it under ISEE2??? I''m concerned now.

find out if it''s still an AGS000. If it''s not then you''ll have to decide how much that bothers you. Like I said, I didn''t know if my stone would come back the same because AGS changed their grading system. I can honestly say even if it wouldn''t have come back a 000 I still would have purchased it with the price adjusted to reflect the new grade. That''s me though. I wouldn''t worry about the ISEE2 personally either.

Ally, you stone did come back ok from AGS, it''s still a VS stone, it''s not like it was downgraded to an SI2. any lab or appraiser can be off a grade, it''s subjective, please, please don''t be concerned. your stone is gorgeous, you saw it and loved it, it''s still the same stone..

 

[allygirl]

I just heard back from the OWNER of the store and not the original person that I deal with. I had sent her an e-mail asking a few questions (most importantly whether or not the stone was still an AGS000). They wrote me that they apologize but that they disagree with AGS and are selling the stone as a VS1 and are not willing to get the new certificate as a VS2! They will not alter their price either. They advised me to purchase the stone with the original certificate OR they could look for a different stone for me! I am SHOCKED that they are not willing to get the new certification!!!!

HELP!!!! I do not know what to do at this point and they took half of the money for the setting!!!

 

[allygirl]

I just got off of the phone with the woman that I''ve been dealing with. We talked for a while and I hope that she will speak to the owner and work something out. YES, the diamond is beautiful and I totally get that the difference between vs1 and 2 is not large, but all that I am asking is that I get the new certification proving that the light performance is also ideal and that everything else comes back the same. It is already at AGS , so why not finalize it. I am not asking for thousands off of the price, I''m realistic, just want to get what is really there for the right price. I know that the original price was good, but if it''s a vs2, then a little off won''t hurt . The setting alone was ALOT!!! BOTH rings are eternity ! I just want a fair deal, that''s all! Not trying to cause conflict. I''ll keep you posted.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!

 

[mrssalvo]

ok, now the story is getting a little wacky. the vendor doesn't agree with AGS? who cares, they are obligated iMO to sell the stone to you with the recent cert and it would upset me that they would try and pass it off as a VS1 with the old cert to someone less knowledgable. I'd offer to buy the stone with a price compensation for the lower clarity, it still not going to be much, or cancel the whole deal to work with an honest vendor. I'm sure lots of vendors here may not agree with AGS or GIA from time to time but they still aren't allow to sell it as something it's not, they have to list the specs according to the cert. somehow I'd trust the folks at AGS over a salesperson at a B & M. I can see a vendor saying the cert says SI2 but it looks more like an SI1 to me, they still cannot sell it as an SI1

ETA: i wonder if this vendor would be trying to charge you more $ if it had come back an E VVS1???? something says they probably would...

 

[allygirl]

Well, after many LONG conversations with the woman that I''ve dealt with and asking her to talk to the owner about just specifically what she had promised me, the owner has now agreed to get the new certificate but he will not take any money off. I don''t even care about that because I think the price is still good, I want the new certificate!!! PROVING that it is, in fact, what the original said as far as other things. SPECIFICALLY if it is a AGS triple zero!!! I just couldn''t take the diamond with the original certificate after they said it is an VS2 from AGS today and they are trying to sell it as an VS1. I even told them that that wasn''t right! Selling something that they know not to be true. SO, looks like it may work out...

I''ll keep ya posted.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi, Ally,

I''ve been sort of busy with school, etc., but I saw this and had to reply! I am sorry for the confusion about the new cert. It is a dilemma. The stone was priced very well in the first place, and I think the price is still fair for a VS2. You may recall that I was the one telling you not to get a new cert, and it looks like that might have been good advice!

My own stone is graded GIA H, but the GOG colorimeter said it was a solid G...and they tried it 3 times and got the same result. So we could have sent the stone to AGS to try to get the G on the cert. But realistically, I was happy with the stone and simply didn''t care about having another certificate.

You loved the stone so much when you saw it. And it must be a very clean VS2 if it was graded a VS1 before. So if I were you, I''d still get it. If I thought you were overpaying, I promise I''d tell you. I remember being shocked when you told me the price, because with a branded stone, I expected it to be much higher. I suspect they''ve had the stone awhile and just haven''t raised the price. That is probably why the owner won''t budge on the price.

Do let us know what happens...I really hope you go ahead, though!

 

[allygirl]

DS--

Nice to hear from you! I was hoping that you''d reply tonight!

I too sort of wished that I hadn''t gotten the new cert, but I felt that I had nothing to lose by doing so since the setting takes 4-6 weeks to make anyway.

I have to say that I just have not felt 100% comfortable with this entire thing and I suppose that''s why I wanted the new certificate. In the end, I suppose you are right and I will accept the price with the new certificate . I just felt that maybe I should push on and ask for a lower price because of the difference from vs1 to vs2, but you''re right, the price is pretty good and they weren''t charging me for the recertification in the first place! I just felt like they had nothing to lose by just simply getting the new certificate even if the price wasn''t adjusted. Kind of made me feel like they had found something that they weren''t willing to disclose.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I understand how you feel, and it''s always more fun if things turn out higher than we expect rather than lower! But the VS2 is still very nice. However, you could still say to the jeweler that you feel a small adjustment should be made in the price just for the heck of it. All he can do is say no again. But regardless, it sounds like a very fine diamond, so don''t let this spoil your fun!

 

[allygirl]

DS--

I don''t think that they''re going to budge one dollar with the price. They weren''t even going to get the new certificate until I spoke my feelings to the woman whom I''ve been dealing with. I just couldn''t understand WHY they wouldn''t get the new certificate. Their thoughts were that they bought it as a VS 1 and they felt that that is what it is and wanted to sell it that way. I told them that I understood that it is such a slight difference that it could be just the person that was certifiying it. My feelings were just that if they weren''t willing to re-certify it, could there have been something else wrong with it that wasn''t on the original certificate. They promised me that EVERYTHING else is the same and it is , in fact, a triple zero! SO, I am so excited to see the new certificate . I sure do hope that this ring is as beautiful as I hope it will be. Did I ever mention the setting that I chose?? Verragio eternity. I think if I ask them about pricing again, they''re just going to get annoyed. I can''t complain about the price as it is right now, right? PLUS, they did bring in the Verragio rep inthe beginning with all of the samples for a private viewing for me PLUS they didn''t charge ME for the recertification. Keep your fingers crossed that this all works out. I can''t stand to go through the entire process again!!! Hubby was not happy last night when he first heard that they weren''t willing to get the new certificate. I hate to see what he''d say if they didn''t OR if something was wrong with it.

 

[allygirl]

Well, the diamond is coming back from AGS WITH the new certificate this week! I am going to get a call when it arrives so that I can come in and see the new certificate (just want to make sure NOTHING else changed) AND also get another chance to view the diamond before it is set! I want to take pictures of it, but they never seem to come out right. Maybe it''s my camera. Is there one camera that might be better than others to take photos of diamonds with ? OR is there a specific way to take a good photo?

 

[SpideyWeb]

Date: 9/30/2006 2:03:30 PM
Author: allygirl
Well, the diamond is coming back from AGS WITH the new certificate this week! I am going to get a call when it arrives so that I can come in and see the new certificate (just want to make sure NOTHING else changed) AND also get another chance to view the diamond before it is set! I want to take pictures of it, but they never seem to come out right. Maybe it''s my camera. Is there one camera that might be better than others to take photos of diamonds with ? OR is there a specific way to take a good photo?

Use the "macro" mode to take pictures of small items up close. This is usually the flower icon.

Hope everything turns out fine for you! Can''t wait to see your pictures!! Good luck!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That's great that it turned out to be 000, Ally! I am having to get a new camera to try to learn to take diamond pictures, so I'm afraid I can't help you with that! I'vbe spent hours and hours trying to decide on a camera!!!

 

[allygirl]

DS--

I just tried out what was recommended to me by using the MACRO mode on my camera. It actually took a decent picture of my anniversary band that I already own. I took it with a HP Photosmart R927 (which I LOVE!!!!!). I also have a completely waterproof digital camera, but I took it on vacation with me for our 25th anniversary and the pictures were deleted off of the memory card for some reason (thankfully I had copied them to my computer first.) Olympus will not take the camera back so that was a huge waste of $399 !! I''d recommend the HP though!!!

NOW, If I could just learn how to make my photos into the avatars on the boards! I tried and got "unspecified error--report to administrator".

Oh well, can''t blame a girl for trying...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ally, thanks for the camera tips! I also had trouble changing my avatar and the PS administrators did it for me. Just wait until you get your new ring and get them to post a pic of it in your avatar for you!!!

 

[allygirl]

HI AGAIN EVERYONE!!!

Well, the new certificate is back and EVERYTHING is EXACTLY the same except for the change from VS1 to VS2. I just got a copy of the new certificate faxed to me and it looks perfect!

Just thought I''d let you all know and THANKS AGAIN for all of your help! Honestly, I would never have found such a beautiful diamond without your help!!!

Here''s looking forward to it being set in my beautiful new verragio setting!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, Ally, we''ll be waiting for lots of pictures posted on Show Me the Ring!!! That''s great news that all came back as expected! I am sure the VS 1-2 thing meant the stone was on the borderline.

 

[mrssalvo]

That''s great news Ally. I''m so excited to see pics of this stone and your new setting.