The Edible Landscape and Self Sustainable Farming Thread

[dragonfly411]

I'm starting this for those of us interested in having an edible style landscape, gardens, or working towards self sustainable living. I know that I am trying to move our family closer to this, and I remember Steal having talked about it. Stone Cold you seem to have some knowledge with gardening, the spaces required, and growing habits for some areas and perhaps others might as well.

Stone, to answer your questions. We have around 10 acres (my grandparents like to say 5 but I"m telling you it is two 5 acre lots lol). The House sits on about 1 acre worth, including a very large front yard that I hope will hold our blueberry plants along the front and side fence lines. Most of the yard get's at least 3/4 daytime sunlight. The very front has a few very tall and scattered pine trees. The back yard is also 3/4 daytime sunlight, with one major tree that overhangs the porch. We had tried a sprig of an orange tree but it didn't survive the frosts. I think we need an older tree to start with if we do citrus. The two pastures take up most of the property and we have two mature pears, what I"m assuming are a male and a female as only one produces fruit. It is enough fruit to feed us and four horses though. We sit on top of a hill... dry ground... dry soil. We have a compost, and also use the horse manure as fertilizer buffer. We have running water lines along the back yard for roses (my grandmother loves them) as well as running lines to both pastures. There is the option to have running lines through the front yard if we need them. We have done potted tomatoes with success and I plan to have two pots dedicated to them next year, as well a smaller cherry variety. We have also had success with Thai pepper varieties in pots as well. We do get hard freezes, which is why I think the pineapple wouldn't work. I know we could do fig, persimmon, orange, possibly grapefruit, and the pears. I'd love to find a dwarf apple. I'm hoping that in spring I can start a little vegetable garden on one side of the yard. I'd have about 30/10 ft. to work with on that side of the house. I could possibly spread it up to 50/10.

To everyone else. I'd love to hear about what you are doing not just with gardens, but let's talk about animal, meat products, dairy, eggs, anything to do with raising said animals. Let's also share what we do with the products of our farms, including recipes, freezing and canning, and preserving. I'd love to hear about smoking and curing meats as well.

 

[stone-cold11]

Nice plot you got there. Definitely possible to get totally self sufficient in food for your family.

Is where you want to garden on top of the hill or near the bottom?

I would like to but some sort of a swale system to capture the rain and help retain water. How much digging are you allowed?

 

[dragonfly411]

The garden area sits atop the hill.

I'd have to find out more about digging permits. As far as I've known though we don't have many restrictions, so long as we apply with a detailed layout of what we plan.

 

[iLander]

Home fruit grower here! What planting zone are you in?

If you want to do citrus, the only tree that I know of that will take freezes is a Satsuma, which is a type of tangerine. They can survive to 28 if mature. With citrus, you should always use a grafted tree, which is a sprig of an orange grown onto a root stock that can resist nematodes and other soil critters. You can grow from your own cutting, but it won't thrive and might not fruit. To ensure survival, I would plant the satsuma up against the south side of some nice warm concrete, maybe against your house or a shed. The wall will warm up during the day and release heat at night. I would still cover it during freezes, just to be safe.

When you cover a plant, the idea is to capture any heat that may be released from the ground at night. A lot of people cover the top of a plant and leave the ground exposed, which is not right, the cover should reach the ground.

I grow a lot of stuff, mangoes are my favorite, and very easy. It doesn't sound like you can grow my stuff, though. You should consider lemons, which tend to fruit year-round and are incredibly handy for iced tea, lemonade, fish, etc. The easiest and most rewarding lemon is a meyer lemon which make HUGE lemons, big as a softball, with a slightly sweet aftertaste. I've done other lemons, but some are kind of fussy.

If I had to feed my family I would raise Tilapia. In a fairly big tub, you could have eating-size fish in a few months. You can find info by googling raising Tilapia, etc. They are very mild, almost tasteless fish, and are delicious. They grow fast!

Sweet potatoes are really easy too. They take about 110-150 days, though. If you buy organic sweet potatoes that are grown locally, you can let it go all sprouty, then pull off the sprouts when they are about 6 inches tall. Each sprout is a new plant. it will develop into a rambling ground vine, and each place where it touches the ground will make a new potato. Plant them after your last frost, and just ignore them all summer and into fall. Then when they start to wilt, pull them up, and bingo! Potatoes!

You should look in your local phone book for your local agricultural extension service. Those guys LIVE for this kind of stuff. Some will come and test your soil PH and all will give you advice via phone and mail about what grows in your area. They may push various chemicals and pesticides on you though, but some are more enlightened and will give you advice on organic methods.

I noticed that you have had success with plants that are naturally bug-resistant. When you get into other varieties, you will need to learn about diatonasious (sp?) earth, insecticidal soap, and ladybugs.

Sorry for the long post, this is a subject I like! I could continue . . .

 

[stone-cold11]

I think dragonfly is in 8-9. Definitely plant on the south side of the house, hill, if possible.

Sweet potatoes is grown back in my house in Singapore but we grow it mainly for the leaves, makes good stir-fry veggie, that is also the reason we do not get many sweet potatoes as the enegery of the plant is taken up to grown leaves...

Ya, tilapia is an easy fish to rear, think they eat algae so requires almost no input. The pond would also be a holding tank for rain gathering.

Swale does not necessary requires much digging, can be as deep as just a plough. Mainly to prevent rain run off too fast from your property and give it more time to sink into the soil. Most of the plants are planted on the downhill side of the swale.

EDT:
Consider mulberries too.

 

[April20]

Dragonfly, I don't have a ton of time to contribute to this thread right now- have to run out the door. BUT- have you read The Dirty Life by Kristen Kimball? Basically a chronicle of a year starting up a self sustaining CSA that provided everything- milk, bread, cheese, meat, veggies, etc. All organic, completely self sustaining. It's not something I'd given a ton of thought to before I read this book, but it's something I think about now. I know I could never take it anywhere near the level they did, but it makes me wonder what I can do on a smaller scale.

 

[iLander]

Wow, never tried to eat sweet potato leaves, I'll have to look into that! Are your sweet potatoes in full sun? Also, you can put little mounds of dirt along the vine, that would encourage more potatoes, too.

I agree about the swales, it really helps to have a good water retention system. If she didn't have freezes she could do bananas and mangoes in the hills between the swales, they like moist roots. Citrus like to have dry feet, but no grass or weeds above their roots, they should be kept clear below their drip line.

Zone 8-9, hmmm? Okay! Look into low-chill apples, plums and peaches, they are fairly easy. CORN! That is a fun crop. To do corn well, do what the native americans did and plant corn, sweet peas and zucchini all in the same plot. The zucchini vines will keep the corn roots moist and cool, the sweet pea vines will twine up the corn stalks and the corn will provide a little cooling shade for the peas. This is an excellent combination and we've had some success with it.

The key to corn and other crops is crop rotation. Can't stress this enough. DO NOT try to put the same crop in the same spot year after year. It will sap the soil, and farmers that do this have to resort to chemical fertilizers that kill the natural balance of the soil. Also, pests are pretty crop specific. Once you plant, say cucumbers, any soil-born pests that like cucumbers will camp out in that section of land. They multiply, waiting for more cucumbers. When you plant cucumbers again, they don't stand a chance.

You know about not putting raw manure on top of roots, right? It could burn them. I put compostable veggies, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, manure, etc., right in a compost pile on top of the future garden plot. That way, I don't have to haul compost around, I just spread it. Lots of compost info on the net.

You've hit a hot topic for me!

 

[iLander]

A whole section of my personal library is devoted to self-sufficiency, here are the best ones:

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Life-Nearings-Self-Sufficient-Living/dp/0805209700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290347793&sr=8-1
This is the grandaddy of them all, the Nearings started the back to the land movement in the '60's.

http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Year-Life-Organic-Farm/dp/1592288871/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290347986&sr=1-1
This one is awesome with farming, animal raising AND beautifully photographed. Gorgeous book.

http://www.amazon.com/Farm-Year-Life-American-Farmer/dp/0803289650/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290348064&sr=1-1
This is a realistic, oddly gripping account of a farmer's life, mostly raising pigs. Includes a sad revelation about how little money he makes.

http://www.amazon.com/Foxfire-Book-Dressing-Building-Moonshining/dp/0385073534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290348232&sr=1-1
The Foxfire series were put together as magazines by teachers in Appalachia in the '70's, trying to capture the old mountain survival skills before they died out. They compiled the magazines into books and there are about 10 or 12 books in the series, and if you want to make hog head soup (the eyeballs are yummy, apparently ), butcher something or build your own dulcimer, this is the place to start. It makes for fascinating reading.

Forgot to say about the Tilapia, you can raise them in a pond or in a tub (think jumbo bathtub size).

 

[Liane]

To echo iLander: if you get hard freezes, you're not going to be able to grow citrus unless you do it in pots and move the containers to sheltered areas during the winter. Citrus can't take cold. However, many kinds grow well in containers, so if you're willing to haul around pots, it's not really that hard. (I have a potted Meyer lemon camped out for the winter on the windowsill of the room where I'm typing this.)

I do exclusively container gardening, since we live in the city and have no backyard space (and if we did, it'd be too polluted to use). Next year I'll get to expand my garden significantly -- right now I just have a few fruits and herbs, plus short-season vegetables (lettuce, carrots, soybeans, peas). I'm really looking forward to it; going to try some pomegranates and dwarf cherries, see how those go in pots.

 

[soocool]

I live in an area that still has many farms so to purchase from them for my family of 3 (soon to be 2 when DD goes to college) is much easier than to try to grow everything myself. I have over an acre of land though and do have fruits and veggies growing in my garden.Our soild isn't the greatest (clay) but we have composted our leaves for over 15 years and have amended our gardens that they produce beautifull fruits and veggies. I think mulching is the key to keeping the plants moist and have a dripper hose to water my plants. I also have several rain barrels on my property. With that much property you can have an irrigation pond that you can pump the water to where you need it.

You should also consider a green house (for seedlings and other things you want to grow in the winter) or cold frames to sustain your plants throughout the winter.

You may want to check one of the local universities in your area to see if they have an agricultural extension program where you can gets lots of advice, particularly in your area. Here's is the one in my area to give you an idea of what I am talking about:
http://extension.psu.edu/

 

[stone-cold11]

Wow, never tried to eat sweet potato leaves, I'll have to look into that! Are your sweet potatoes in full sun? Also, you can put little mounds of dirt along the vine, that would encourage more potatoes, too.

Partial shade in the afternoon, so about 3 quarter sun? Should be more than enough but probably not enough fertilizer too. We don't really do compost back home just what leaves that was blown in and what bird and my dogs drops in it.

 

[iLander]

Wow, never tried to eat sweet potato leaves, I'll have to look into that! Are your sweet potatoes in full sun? Also, you can put little mounds of dirt along the vine, that would encourage more potatoes, too.

Partial shade in the afternoon, so about 3 quarter sun? Should be more than enough but probably not enough fertilizer too. We don't really do compost back home just what leaves that was blown in and what bird and my dogs drops in it.

Maybe try a different type of sweet potato? There are many hybrids available. That is a puzzler, sounds like plenty of sun. . .

 

[stone-cold11]

ya, maybe that strain is grow for the leaves cause my parents got it from a friend but just the cutting, not even a root. There are some very small sweet potatoes but not enough for a meal, maybe a snack...

 

[dragonfly411]

Hey everyone! I didn't want to post back yesterday as I knew I wouldn't have sufficient time.

First a big THANK YOU for the information presented thus far.

I know we can get oranges to grow here, as our neighbors have had those and grapefruit and been successful, so we hopefully will get those going. I am going to look into the Satsuma tangerines as well. I have REALLY wanted a potted lemon or two so I"m adding that on to the list. For vegetables I'd like to do corn, sweet peas, zucchini, some squashes, hopefully some greens, potatoes, sweet potatoes, okra, cucumber, and onions to start with and add to it as I can. I'm also going to plant herbs in pots around the house to have handy. I don't think bananas or mangoes would make it here unfortunately. I will be looking into the swale and see how our land might allow for it.

Thank you also for the book recommendations. I'll be looking into all of them. There is one that is out of print now that I have a copy of called Edible Landscaping. I also have Southern Living's Garden Almanac thing and find it very useful.