The Asians'' obsession with higher colours and clarities are finally driving me bonkers!

[packrat]

Great post BlackJade!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/15/2009 10:23:34 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/15/2009 9:51:31 PM
Author: Black Jade
I'm going to be blunt here.
Life is too short for all this over-sensitivity.
A negative stereotype is something that is harmful and impacts your life in some MEANINGFUL negative way.
I am black. Years ago (but not all that many years) I worked in an office where a while where the openly said perception was that blacks were thieves. People's handbags started to be stolen in the office and a bunch of rules came down from on high, that no black mail room workers were to be allowed near the desks--things like that. When they had no idea who had done the actual stealing. The stereotype also was that blacks are more stupid. Therefore, even though I had a master's degree from an Ivy League college, I was hired, not even as a secretary, but as a typist, because the assumption was that a black who had an Ivy League degree had been given it because of affirmative action, but still was not as intelligent as a white person. A few weeks after I was hired, a classmate of mine, with the same degrees, but white and male was hired for the position that I had initially sought and was paraded all over the office as being amazingly qualified.
I didn't stay at that job too long, you can imagine. But other black people did. They had no choice, presumably.
THIS kind of thing is what people need to be sensitive to. This is what we need to argue against when we see happening.
It does still exist, although not to to the degree that it did when I was younger, and its improving all the time.
Making a statement that you notice that many Asian people, especially in native Asian cultures (Asian Americans are AMERICAN so of course behave differently) prefer very high color, high clarity diamonds is NOT doing some harmful, racist stereotyping that is hurting somebody. It is a simple observation, and was not presented in some way that was meant to offend, even. This would not fall into the category of unacknowledged racism that we need to hunt down and pillory the person responsible for to make the world safer in some way. This is more along the lines of, most white Americans like to suntan, or most blacks prefer music that has a rhythmic beat, or (gasp!) most women like diamonds and most of us would prefer to get one, if given a choice, for an engagement ring.
Of course you will some whites that like to stay out of the sun, or some women who'd rather have a colored gemstone or no ring at all--but these statements would be true in most cases, and quite inoffensive. It would seem that you could have a discussion about things like this, where people could even say, Well, I'm Asian and I don't care if my diamonds are high clarity or not (as some people did), and people could just DISCUSS without getting accusatory and offended.
It just seems seems that it would be a more agreeable type of world then.
And I also think that it gets hard for people to realize what real racism and discrimination are when everybody is so touchy all the time that they are getting worked up about all these little things. Then when something real happens, everyone is so exhausted with having had to be PC all the time, that they don't even realize it--and find it hard to care.
Racism is terrible but its also terrible the way free speech has gone to the dogs in the US recently. Free speech is a valuable thing. It's hasn't been around for a very long time in human history and doesn't exist in many other countries. I think we should be very aware of it and be very careful about just throwing it away, as it seems that we are doing. I'd rather hear opinions that I disagree with, even REALLY disagree with than have everyone muzzled and watching their words all the time as seems to be happening.

(that ivy league degree did you good.

)

I posted the thread for a few reasons:

The "Asian preference" for colour and clarity (or rather lack of) is true, I'd bet statistically speaking you'd find more Asians preferring, when given a choice, to go for D-E-F, IF-VVS stones over say J-L, SI stones. In fact, I posted in another thread that my own gemologist advised me against buying any more SI stones. Would I listen to him? Not necessarily, if I find another stone that is absolutely eye-clean and it fits my budget, or rather ours, then I would. That's not to say that I would not prefer a VVS or VS stone if I had plenty of money to spend. It's also not to say that I wouldn't prefer a VS stone, but again this would only be if budget permitted.

Like what Musey, Crown et al have posted, this preference being a trend or a cultural belief/ preference is NOT a negative stereotyping (and of course, not all Asians have this preference, and s.o. pointed out, lots of Westerners also prefer higher colours and clarities). It is not wrong and should not offend anyone (but if s.o. should be offended, then that is of course their prerogative). It is just an observation of Asian people's likes and dislikes.

What I would find offensive is exactly what Black Jade has posted. It'd be like s.o. saying, oh I don't know, "All Asians have horrible slanted eyes" or "Asian women are subservient". I'd be horribly offended if s.o. were to say this to me (but of course nobody would dare because I'd deck them!

).

Onto the subject of Asian women being "materialistic", "shallow" etc. Now, I don't really recall if someone on the other thread actually said that or if it was just insinuated (I think it was the latter). This *is* negative stereotyping and it'd def be something I'd stay away from, and generally just not nice behaviour (including any personal attack, either on here or IRL)! Just because one has a preference for a particular(s) colour and/ or clarit(ie), that doesn't not make them materialistic or shallow. What would be materialistic or shallow and selfish for that matter would be for example for me to insist on buying say a 6ct stone of D-IF quality, and this is all that would matter to me regardless of anyone else's feelings, for eg. if my husband would prefer instead that we used that money to build an extension for the house, or if I were to flash that 6ct under everyone's noses and I had no real qualities to offer (like kindness, consideration, compassion etc).

I was driven bonkers because these ladies at the jewellery store seemed to think that it is not acceptable to go for lower colours like J or K. You know what, I'm the one having the last laugh because my J's or K's are much more beautiful and much more sparkly than these so-so or even poorly cut stones of D-E-F colours. Also, as I've said before, if money were no object, I'd buy these colours, but I am a size wh%&^ and I'd rather go for a lower colour stone to get the size I want as long as it sparkles like crazy and as long as it pleases me and my hubby. Anyway, they didn't even know the colour of the ACA's until I told them because all they were were beautiful and faced up very white. I bet my new studs would knock their socks and their preference for a higher colour off!

[ETA: excuse the horrible typo in the title of this thread!

]

 

[SparklyLibra]

Date: 5/15/2009 9:51:31 PM
Author: Black Jade
I''m going to be blunt here.

Life is too short for all this over-sensitivity.

A negative stereotype is something that is harmful and impacts your life in some MEANINGFUL negative way.

I am black. Years ago (but not all that many years) I worked in an office where a while where the openly said perception was that blacks were thieves. People''s handbags started to be stolen in the office and a bunch of rules came down from on high, that no black mail room workers were to be allowed near the desks--things like that. When they had no idea who had done the actual stealing. The stereotype also was that blacks are more stupid. Therefore, even though I had a master''s degree from an Ivy League college, I was hired, not even as a secretary, but as a typist, because the assumption was that a black who had an Ivy League degree had been given it because of affirmative action, but still was not as intelligent as a white person. A few weeks after I was hired, a classmate of mine, with the same degrees, but white and male was hired for the position that I had initially sought and was paraded all over the office as being amazingly qualified.

I didn''t stay at that job too long, you can imagine. But other black people did. They had no choice, presumably.

THIS kind of thing is what people need to be sensitive to. This is what we need to argue against when we see happening.

It does still exist, although not to to the degree that it did when I was younger, and its improving all the time.

Making a statement that you notice that many Asian people, especially in native Asian cultures (Asian Americans are AMERICAN so of course behave differently) prefer very high color, high clarity diamonds is NOT doing some harmful, racist stereotyping that is hurting somebody. It is a simple observation, and was not presented in some way that was meant to offend, even. This would not fall into the category of unacknowledged racism that we need to hunt down and pillory the person responsible for to make the world safer in some way. This is more along the lines of, most white Americans like to suntan, or most blacks prefer music that has a rhythmic beat, or (gasp!) most women like diamonds and most of us would prefer to get one, if given a choice, for an engagement ring.

Of course you will some whites that like to stay out of the sun, or some women who''d rather have a colored gemstone or no ring at all--but these statements would be true in most cases, and quite inoffensive. It would seem that you could have a discussion about things like this, where people could even say, Well, I''m Asian and I don''t care if my diamonds are high clarity or not (as some people did), and people could just DISCUSS without getting accusatory and offended.

It just seems seems that it would be a more agreeable type of world then.

And I also think that it gets hard for people to realize what real racism and discrimination are when everybody is so touchy all the time that they are getting worked up about all these little things. Then when something real happens, everyone is so exhausted with having had to be PC all the time, that they don''t even realize it--and find it hard to care.

Racism is terrible but its also terrible the way free speech has gone to the dogs in the US recently. Free speech is a valuable thing. It''s hasn''t been around for a very long time in human history and doesn''t exist in many other countries. I think we should be very aware of it and be very careful about just throwing it away, as it seems that we are doing. I''d rather hear opinions that I disagree with, even REALLY disagree with than have everyone muzzled and watching their words all the time as seems to be happening.

Very well said...

 

[zhuzhu]

On paper, it is very easy to argue that "oversensitivity is unnecessary".

The fact is that all of us are emotional beings having individualized and unique experiences that influence how we feel about certain sayings or statements. AND IT IS PERFECTLY OK! For the sake of a more agreeable world, I say we give both Phoenix and chiapet a break for their freely expressing how they felt about certain event/statement.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/15/2009 12:33:57 PM
Author: MommaBear
5. Your being driven ''bonkers'' but... who''s paying the bills for these stones that these women seek? Surely not you. So who cares? If their SO wants to fork it, more power to them.

you really wanna know the truth?? SUGAR DADDY !!

rich men in HK often buys expensive jewelry for their "MISTRESS"

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/15/2009 1:16:36 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I'm really offended by this post.

Asians like white AND big.

shame on you TG!!

time for my friday night "BAR EXAM"

 

[Phoenix]

DF, you are one naughty man!

Date: 5/16/2009 2:08:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/15/2009 12:33:57 PM
Author: MommaBear
5. Your being driven ''bonkers'' but... who''s paying the bills for these stones that these women seek? Surely not you. So who cares? If their SO wants to fork it, more power to them.

you really wanna know the truth?? SUGAR DADDY !!

rich men in HK often buys expensive jewelry for their ''MISTRESS''

 

[Phoenix]

Yikes!! My post above has so many typos!! I guess my fingers are too fast for my brain, LOL!

 

[AdiS]

Date: 5/15/2009 9:51:31 PM
Author: Black Jade
I''m going to be blunt here.
Life is too short for all this over-sensitivity.
A negative stereotype is something that is harmful and impacts your life in some MEANINGFUL negative way.
I am black. Years ago (but not all that many years) I worked in an office where a while where the openly said perception was that blacks were thieves. People''s handbags started to be stolen in the office and a bunch of rules came down from on high, that no black mail room workers were to be allowed near the desks--things like that. When they had no idea who had done the actual stealing. The stereotype also was that blacks are more stupid. Therefore, even though I had a master''s degree from an Ivy League college, I was hired, not even as a secretary, but as a typist, because the assumption was that a black who had an Ivy League degree had been given it because of affirmative action, but still was not as intelligent as a white person. A few weeks after I was hired, a classmate of mine, with the same degrees, but white and male was hired for the position that I had initially sought and was paraded all over the office as being amazingly qualified.
I didn''t stay at that job too long, you can imagine. But other black people did. They had no choice, presumably.
THIS kind of thing is what people need to be sensitive to. This is what we need to argue against when we see happening.
It does still exist, although not to to the degree that it did when I was younger, and its improving all the time.
Making a statement that you notice that many Asian people, especially in native Asian cultures (Asian Americans are AMERICAN so of course behave differently) prefer very high color, high clarity diamonds is NOT doing some harmful, racist stereotyping that is hurting somebody. It is a simple observation, and was not presented in some way that was meant to offend, even. This would not fall into the category of unacknowledged racism that we need to hunt down and pillory the person responsible for to make the world safer in some way. This is more along the lines of, most white Americans like to suntan, or most blacks prefer music that has a rhythmic beat, or (gasp!) most women like diamonds and most of us would prefer to get one, if given a choice, for an engagement ring.
Of course you will some whites that like to stay out of the sun, or some women who''d rather have a colored gemstone or no ring at all--but these statements would be true in most cases, and quite inoffensive. It would seem that you could have a discussion about things like this, where people could even say, Well, I''m Asian and I don''t care if my diamonds are high clarity or not (as some people did), and people could just DISCUSS without getting accusatory and offended.
It just seems seems that it would be a more agreeable type of world then.
And I also think that it gets hard for people to realize what real racism and discrimination are when everybody is so touchy all the time that they are getting worked up about all these little things. Then when something real happens, everyone is so exhausted with having had to be PC all the time, that they don''t even realize it--and find it hard to care.
Racism is terrible but its also terrible the way free speech has gone to the dogs in the US recently. Free speech is a valuable thing. It''s hasn''t been around for a very long time in human history and doesn''t exist in many other countries. I think we should be very aware of it and be very careful about just throwing it away, as it seems that we are doing. I''d rather hear opinions that I disagree with, even REALLY disagree with than have everyone muzzled and watching their words all the time as seems to be happening.

Great post Black Jade, I completely agree. There are certainly offensive and insulting generalizations and there are also statements that are mostly true, with exceptions of course.
Recently I was arguing with a foreigner (not naming nationalities here) on a famous video sharing site. We were discussing football (or soccer for our American fellows here

). Well, we didn''t agree on a certain footballer''s qualities and the guy gets so mad he declares (exact quote here) "All bulgarians r dirty, ugly gypsies and now noting caus u r all stupid!" I actually had to laugh at that. First of all, I''d never been called a gypsie before (more like "Are you Scandinavian?", but gypsy-that was new! lol) Seriously, his English (native language!) was worse than mine (which is far from perfect!) I was p**d off, of course but didn''t really take it that personally. The guy was just an idiot. lol Still, that''s what I consider offensive generalization.

On another occasion I was conversing with an acquaintance of mine and she said "Bulgarians don''t seem to know anything about diamonds, do they?" Well, she''s right. Why would I feel offended by her statement? It''s generally true. I don''t think I fall into that category since I do know a thing or two about diamonds (

), but most people I know don''t. Engagement rings are still a new tradition here and they''re most often gemstone rings, not diamonds. And when they are diamonds, it''s mostly diamond chips with really really bad quality. There are exceptions, of course, and lately I see more and more women with fine jewelry and nice stones. That makes me happy!

But generally, my friend was right. So I really don''t consider her observation offensive. Is that any more insulting than saying "Asians like higher colour and higher clarity stones"? Well, no, IMO.

 

[butterfly 17]

My husband''s family is like this and they are Cambodian. When I got my first diamond, one I was extremely proud of, his aunt took out her loupe to look at it and told me the "quality" was not that good. It was an OMC I VS2. I was mortified and so embarrassed bc this was at my SIL''s house during a party.

They beliieve that only DEF and VVS or IF is acceptable. I know this because they told me. They are very into diamonds and do care about cut though. Anything lower is considered bad quality.

A few weeks ago, I had my other ring on ( 2.38 H VS2) (the one before this 2.4 ACA)and my husband''s aunt grabbed my finger and looked at it up close and personal and asked me what the stats were.

I told her it was an F VS1. She said something like it was beautiful, but I should have gotten VVS clarity. I was suprised she didn''t tell me that I should of gotten a D as well.

I laughed internally because I could have told her that too, but didn''t want to lie too much in case she pulled out her loupe again. The funny thing is she would really have no idea what color or clarity it really was, only what I told her, which was a lie anyways.

I have had his family critize my other diamonds as well and it used to bother me a lot when we first got married, now I just laugh because as my quote says, "Buy what you like to please yourself, not anyone else."

As long as I am happy with my diamond, who gives a f*ck about what anyone else says! KWIM?

 

[D&T]

butterfly- did they happen to be a jeweler or worked in jewelry and i assume they live in the states? b/c my side of the family is cambodian and they could care less about diamonds, can''t really speak for my cousin that is a jeweler in the home country though.

what ever happen to the most important C in question, Cut. i think next time anyone ask me about my diamond, i''m just going to start rambling, its a super ideal AGS triple zero or something to the like

 

[butterfly 17]

Date: 5/16/2009 8:53:16 PM
Author: D&T
butterfly- did they happen to be a jeweler or worked in jewelry and i assume they live in the states? b/c my side of the family is cambodian and they could care less about diamonds, can''t really speak for my cousin that is a jeweler in the home country though.

what ever happen to the most important C in question, Cut. i think next time anyone ask me about my diamond, i''m just going to start rambling, its a super ideal AGS triple zero or something to the like

yes, actually they had a family jewelery business in Cambodia and the relatives in France are like this as well and they had a jewelery business too.

All I ever hear about when someone gets engaged or already has an engagement ring is how much they paid, what color and clarity it is, never really any talk about size though.

If I ever chose to divulge how much my diamond cost, they a. probably would not believe I paid as much as I did and b. beliieve I got ripped off for what I paid for an H VS2.

They do know about cut though, but just about what ideal numbers are, not about H&A''s or AGS either. They would probably think it was some random lab, they only believe in GIA! I once mentioned that my 2 carat ACA G VS1 was AGS certed and they looked at me like I had two heads.

Before I had found PS, I asked his aunt, who is the one mainly into diamonds, to help me find a diamond and she probably didn''t realize what my budget was because she said something to me that made me feel like she thought I couldn''t afford a whole lot and so I decided to just do all the research myself.

Anyway, I have to make myself happy, not them!

 

[beach]

I just can't help but think that in many cases several people THINK they have a "pure quality" D VVS or IF or high color and clarity stone. When in fact many of the B&M stones purchased are graded by soft labs.... Many people buy these alleged high clarity and color stones with no certificates too...Is it really so pure then when it can't make the same GIA or AGS color/clarity grade??

On similar note, has anybody noticed that Blue Nile says that higher colors stones are better quality... Don't they mean rarity?? Such a marketing move.

BN site:
F Colorless. Slight color detected by an expert gemologist, but still considered a "colorless" grade. A high-quality diamond.
G-H Near-colorless. Color noticeable when compared to diamonds of better grades, but these grades offer excellent value.


I have seen plenty of low "quality" F colored diamonds lol...

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I wonder if the stereotype is more true of Asian-americans or Asian emigrants. I say that because when I go home to Beijing and I go shopping for jewelery , all they ever say is "Oh my god, a diamond, you're so lucky!". None of my family knows anything about color grades or clarity grades, lol, just that diamonds are sparkly and expensive, and bigger = more expensive.

I can't speak to other asian countries, but diamonds really aren't well understood in China, the only preference I've ever noticed is that they prefer having a diamond over not having one

Personally though, I guess I'm part of the trend, or rather my fiance is since he picked the ring and it's a F/VVS2. Although he's an asian adopted by a white american family...so maybe it's in the genes

(just kidding) More likely it's the engineer in him that's super by-the-book about what makes a "quality" diamond.

It's been my observation on Chinese Americans though that they can be very brand conscious, especially when it comes to schools, lol.

On kind of a random note, it's apparently less offensive to say: "America is fat" than to say "Americans are fat". Gotta love semantics.

Also, I've always felt it weird when someone tells somebody not to be offended. If one person has the right to voice observations, then other people have the right to voice their indignation at those observations, unfounded or not. Feelings are feelings, it's not the most objective of things.

Personally I'm not that offended, although I will say that I had a knee jerk response to the word "Asians" because it lumps so many different countries and culturies into one group based on a very general geographical location.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/17/2009 12:08:09 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
I wonder if the stereotype is more true of Asian-americans or Asian emigrants. I say that because when I go home to Beijing and I go shopping for jewelery , all they ever say is 'Oh my god, a diamond, you're so lucky!'. None of my family knows anything about color grades or clarity grades, lol, just that diamonds are sparkly and expensive, and bigger = more expensive.

i was refering more towards emigrants from HK. methink part of the reason is that HK jewelers push their customers more towards higher color/clarity stones.

as for China...they didn't know there were such a thing as diamonds til 10 yrs ago. even today their avg monthly income is $350>

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 5/17/2009 12:58:39 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/17/2009 12:08:09 AM

Author: MakingTheGrade

I wonder if the stereotype is more true of Asian-americans or Asian emigrants. I say that because when I go home to Beijing and I go shopping for jewelery , all they ever say is ''Oh my god, a diamond, you''re so lucky!''. None of my family knows anything about color grades or clarity grades, lol, just that diamonds are sparkly and expensive, and bigger = more expensive.

i was refering more towards emigrants from HK. methink part of the reason is that HK jewelers push their customers more towards higher color/clarity stones.


as for China...they didn''t know there were such a thing as diamonds til 10 yrs ago. even today their avg monthly income is < $350 USD.

Sad by true. HK and mainland china are just worlds apart in many respects. On a semi-amusing note, my cousin who was the first in the family to get engaged, got a 1ct solitaire on a scattered band from Tiffany''s from her fiance. And she never wore the ring other than to the wedding, and the engagement activities. On a daily basis, it sits at home, lol. I also have a diamond solitaire, and so I think my remaining cousins feel pressured into getting diamonds from there fiance''s, even though it''s not quite "the norm" in China yet, and even though they probably also won''t be wearing their rings on a daily basis.

 

[D&T]

Date: 5/17/2009 10:17:24 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade

Date: 5/17/2009 12:58:39 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/17/2009 12:08:09 AM

Author: MakingTheGrade

I wonder if the stereotype is more true of Asian-americans or Asian emigrants. I say that because when I go home to Beijing and I go shopping for jewelery , all they ever say is ''Oh my god, a diamond, you''re so lucky!''. None of my family knows anything about color grades or clarity grades, lol, just that diamonds are sparkly and expensive, and bigger = more expensive.

i was refering more towards emigrants from HK. methink part of the reason is that HK jewelers push their customers more towards higher color/clarity stones.


as for China...they didn''t know there were such a thing as diamonds til 10 yrs ago. even today their avg monthly income is < $350 USD.

Sad by true. HK and mainland china are just worlds apart in many respects. On a semi-amusing note, my cousin who was the first in the family to get engaged, got a 1ct solitaire on a scattered band from Tiffany''s from her fiance. And she never wore the ring other than to the wedding, and the engagement activities. On a daily basis, it sits at home, lol. I also have a diamond solitaire, and so I think my remaining cousins feel pressured into getting diamonds from there fiance''s, even though it''s not quite ''the norm'' in China yet, and even though they probably also won''t be wearing their rings on a daily basis.

My SIL, does this also, beautiful ring, but does not wear it, sits at home, waiting for special occasion.

 

[zhuzhu]

My married coworkers from China do not even wear wedding bands. They are professionals making good income, but they chose to spend all their money living in the most expensive neighborhoods in town so their kids can go to the "most desirable, highest ranked" school districts. I am sure they do not give a hook about the characteristics of diamonds, and if they do have some, they prob. just keep them in a safe box somewhere so it can be given to their children later.

Therefore generalization of "Asians" being all the same, is simply inaccurate.

 

[LaraOnline]

This is such an interesting thread, I love PS, where else could Phoenix''s basic rant about bad store service end up being a philosophical discussion about racism and freedom of speech?!
Great post, Black Jade - and musey, too.
I find I make lots of generalisations about cultures I feel comfortable commenting on... like the Australian culture, which is where I come from.

I wonder would Phoenix''s post been more acceptable to all if she''d posted stats to ''back up'' her ideas about cultural behaviours re diamond preferences?

Anyway, thanks for the interesting discussion, gals!

Phoenix, are you planning on continuing to use the jewellers? Or did it turn you off altogether?