The Asians'' obsession with higher colours and clarities are finally driving me bonkers!

[Phoenix]

There was a recent thread about a gentleman presenting the ering to his Asian girlfriend and she was not totally happy with it. It was suggested that perhaps one of the reasons was because she was Asian and thus was not accepting of the stone's SI clarity. I know there were some people taking offence at the suggestion that Asians were being stereotyped and perhaps at the insinuation that Asian women are materialistic and shallow.

Well, I had an experience today that I wanted to share with fellow PS'ers. I went to my local jeweller's in Singapore (the same one I've been going to for the past four, five years). I was asking for advice on the posts for my new earrings because I'm still having some questions about the length, thickness of the posts, where to position the grooves etc. So they asked me how big the stones were and how much I was paying (this is very typical in the local context and particularly since I know these people quite well, I didn't mind) and I told them. They then asked about the other specs. I told them also, including the "J" colour. You should have seen the look of disgust of their faces!

They exchanged glances with each other but didn't dare say anything to me, well at least not initially. I said there was nothing wrong with "J", particularly as the stones have excellent cut and all that they will be will be blindingly firey. I tried not to act too defensive. I laughed and said I'm not made of money and if I wanted the size then something has got to give. They then asked why didn't I go for something smaller but better colour? I said I already have a pair of G VVS1 studs 1ct each, which I was actually wearing at the time. I then added that the last earrings I had, which I had traded in for these J stones, (and which they'd been cleaning for me at least once a week for almost a year) were "K" colour. At this point, they looked so shocked and were in total disbelief!! Well, duh!!

 

[tlh]

that is interesting... from your situation, what was an acceptable color in the jeweler''s eyes? what colors can play ball?

 

[cellentani]

Were they older ladies? Sometimes the more "mature" Asians (referring to age, of course) are very status-conscious and snobby. You can usually tell them by their bouffant-ish coif and heavy makeup. Obviously, this is a gross generalization, but I''ve seen and felt their looks of disdain. But, as a full Asian myself, I can only say that I have an H, SI2 - and not just as earrings, but as my engagement stone (and I would wear your earrings proudly anyday). Try not to let it bother you - just roll your eyes.

 

[allycat0303]

Phoenix:

Well I don''t take offence. I''ve noticed that asian people really do have that fixation on getting the highest grade/quality available. It''s just something they feel is important. My mother was like that. I bought her (if I remember correctly) an I SI 1 although she had told me multiple times that she would not go below D VVS1. But really, with no frame of reference she couldn''t tell! And she adored her ring.

My sister''s engagement ring for her ex was also high quality (I don''t recall the specs) but he asked my fiance about 200 times about our grade/quality. So it is important to asian people. And no more materialistic or shallow then other people being obsessed with carat size. They just think different things are important. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i agree with Phoenix...most Asians only buy higher color and or higher clarity stones, but most of them know nothing about cuts. all they care about is high color and high clarity.

a friend of mine return from HK where he bought a 2.05ct G VVS1 GIA stone,he showed me the GIA report (graded EX,EX,EX ) and ask me what i think about his stone. this stone had a crown angle of 35.5'' with a pavill of 41.4'' and the pavil depth was over 44%

.

a few months earlier he bought a pair of 1ct GIA XXX (for studs) with similar specs as the stone above. so yes, 3 out of 3 stones, steep/deep combo

. i told him he can buy better cut diamonds in the U.S. at lower prices.

 

[absolut_blonde]

What I don''t get is... if people can''t TELL- and they have to ask- what the colour is, who cares? lol. Obviously your J stone wasn''t overtly yellow or anything, or they would''ve known it wasn''t in the DEF range.

 

[MommaBear]

I understand your distaste but...
the Asian generalization is unecessary IMO
1. Everyone has their own priorities when buying a diamond (as with anything). Not everyone cares for a big diamond. Sometimes, to others, quality is better than quantity. This is not necessarily Asian woman being shallow or materialistic. Beleive me, I have a couple of friends who are NOT Asian and have made their expectations very clear to their SO: 2+ct solitaire. D/F and VVS.
2. In this case, you've come across Asians that all have the same taste. Most Asians have a cultural consensus on color. They deem 'white' as being prized. White denotes purity and upper crust. The women do not like to tan or become dark in skin color. It has been this way for centuries; before the 4c's. (your in Asia.. of course your experience is a bit bias) Their priority is to have white color and absolute clairty. That does not mean it has to be your priority. But it also shouldn't mean that they need to settle for a lower color if they have a means to pay for it.
3. In a jewelry store, of course they are going to frown upon a lower grade diamond. They want to try sell you something better! I had the same experience with a white woman in a jewelry store here in California. She frowned upon my low color expectations and wanted me to look at D/F colors.
4. You said you didn't mind telling your jeweler about your stone; apparently you do otherwise you wouldn't have been bothered by their reaction. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to share details about your stone if you don't like it being judged. We live in a materialistic world, Asian or not. People are going to judge.
5. Your being driven 'bonkers' but... who's paying the bills for these stones that these women seek? Surely not you. So who cares? If their SO wants to fork it, more power to them.

 

[D&T]

My parents are very humble, they do not care about color, clarity and size (but I like to buy them quality items for what I can afford),,, but we were also immigrants, so that rubbed off on me. In my native homeland, egagement rings are not traditional, nor diamonds, but jewelry is a must (yellow gold specifically), I have a K SI1 and love love love it, I will probably never own anything higher than H color in anything for I am not color sensitive or need the status, just so long as I love it and quality is what matters most. So depending on what the country of origins asians are from not all asians are obsessed with higher color and clarity its sad to see that asians are misrepresented at times on this board...

 

[musey]

Date: 5/15/2009 11:14:16 AM
Author: allycat0303
Well I don't take offence. I've noticed that asian people really do have that fixation on getting the highest grade/quality available. It's just something they feel is important.

I've noticed that as well, though on PS more than in real life (haven't been put in a situation to notice in real life).

To me, it seems akin to saying that Americans have a fixation on getting the biggest diamond possible. Sure, it's not true across the board, but it's surely a trend.

So if a guy comes on here saying that his girlfriend wasn't happy with the .30ct diamond he bought her, and someone asks if she's from a metropolitan area in the US like LA/NY/Atlanta (because if so she might have been expecting bigger), I won't be offended. It's just a harmless stereotype based upon actual noticeable trends.

I can't imagine why it would be offensive in the first place

to say that any one group of people values some particular diamond/gemstone trait over others. It's not an insult, just an observation. If it doesn't apply to you (the proverbial "you"), then great, there's no need to defend that.

I personally think that people take notions of what is offensive WAY too far.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/15/2009 12:56:40 PM
Author: musey

Date: 5/15/2009 11:14:16 AM
Author: allycat0303
Well I don''t take offence. I''ve noticed that asian people really do have that fixation on getting the highest grade/quality available. It''s just something they feel is important.

I''ve noticed that as well, though on PS more than in real life (haven''t been put in a situation to notice in real life).

To me, it seems akin to saying that Americans have a fixation on getting the biggest diamond possible. Sure, it''s not true across the board, but it''s surely a trend.

So if a guy comes on here saying that his girlfriend wasn''t happy with the .30ct diamond he bought her, and someone asks if she''s from a metropolitan area in the US like LA/NY/Atlanta (because if so she might have been expecting bigger), I won''t be offended. It''s just a harmless stereotype based upon actual noticeable trends.

I can''t imagine why it would be offensive in the first place

to say that any one group of people values some particular diamond/gemstone trait over others. It''s not an insult, just an observation. If it doesn''t apply to you (the proverbial ''you''), then great, there''s no need to defend that.

I personally think that people take notions of what is offensive WAY too far.

Ditto Musey.

 

[TravelingGal]

I''m really offended by this post.

Asians like white AND big.

 

[crown1]

Date: 5/15/2009 12:56:40 PM
Author: musey

Date: 5/15/2009 11:14:16 AM
Author: allycat0303
Well I don''t take offence. I''ve noticed that asian people really do have that fixation on getting the highest grade/quality available. It''s just something they feel is important.

I''ve noticed that as well, though on PS more than in real life (haven''t been put in a situation to notice in real life).

To me, it seems akin to saying that Americans have a fixation on getting the biggest diamond possible. Sure, it''s not true across the board, but it''s surely a trend.

So if a guy comes on here saying that his girlfriend wasn''t happy with the .30ct diamond he bought her, and someone asks if she''s from a metropolitan area in the US like LA/NY/Atlanta (because if so she might have been expecting bigger), I won''t be offended. It''s just a harmless stereotype based upon actual noticeable trends.

I can''t imagine why it would be offensive in the first place

to say that any one group of people values some particular diamond/gemstone trait over others. It''s not an insult, just an observation. If it doesn''t apply to you (the proverbial ''you''), then great, there''s no need to defend that.

I personally think that people take notions of what is offensive WAY too far.

totally agree!

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/15/2009 1:24:15 PM
Author: crown1

Date: 5/15/2009 12:56:40 PM
Author: musey

Date: 5/15/2009 11:14:16 AM
Author: allycat0303
Well I don''t take offence. I''ve noticed that asian people really do have that fixation on getting the highest grade/quality available. It''s just something they feel is important.

I''ve noticed that as well, though on PS more than in real life (haven''t been put in a situation to notice in real life).

To me, it seems akin to saying that Americans have a fixation on getting the biggest diamond possible. Sure, it''s not true across the board, but it''s surely a trend.

So if a guy comes on here saying that his girlfriend wasn''t happy with the .30ct diamond he bought her, and someone asks if she''s from a metropolitan area in the US like LA/NY/Atlanta (because if so she might have been expecting bigger), I won''t be offended. It''s just a harmless stereotype based upon actual noticeable trends.

I can''t imagine why it would be offensive in the first place

to say that any one group of people values some particular diamond/gemstone trait over others. It''s not an insult, just an observation. If it doesn''t apply to you (the proverbial ''you''), then great, there''s no need to defend that.

I personally think that people take notions of what is offensive WAY too far.

totally agree!

Me too. Though this "stereotype" has been my experience in real life.

 

[zhuzhu]

We should all buy and keep what makes us happy. The general preference that Asians have on color and and clarity may be related to their deep rooted culture and philosophy (purity and perfection = love = diamond [symbol of love]). It may also be attributed to the lack of knowledge on what quality diamond is in general. After all, the cut consideration is the one that is most difficult to sell on DeBeer commercials, and to learn on our own.

I think it is charming that each ethnic group has their own unique appreciation of what is considered important and beautiful, nothing wrong with diversity in taste.

 

[tigian]

Date: 5/15/2009 5:09:11 PM
Author: zhuzhu
We should all buy and keep what makes us happy. The general preference that Asians have on color and and clarity may be related to their deep rooted culture and philosophy (purity and perfection = love = diamond [symbol of love]). It may also be attributed to the lack of knowledge on what quality diamond is in general. After all, the cut consideration is the one that is most difficult to sell on DeBeer commercials, and to learn on our own.


I think it is charming that each ethnic group has their own unique appreciation of what is considered important and beautiful, nothing wrong with diversity in taste.

I agree 100%!

 

[joelly]

I am Asian, born and bred. Moved to Los Angeles in 1999. I recently choose D color, SI1 clarity for my engagement ring. I choose it because I love the D color, not because I am Asian.

My mom, also Asian, collected diamonds since she was my age (32) and she claims as long as it sparkles, faces up white and loupe clean, she will buy them.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I have a suspicion that the vast majority of folks, including many jewellers, would not know the actual (certed) color and clarity of stones by seeing them worn (e.g. in your ears). Hence, the only person it makes makes a difference to, then, is the person wearing them.

Let people think what they want, they will anyway.

cheers--Sharon

 

[iluvcarats]

A bit off topic, but this has me laughing.
Leave it to PS to have Diamond Stereotypes LOL!
This gives me an idea.
Off to start a new thread

 

[chiapet]

Trying very VERY hard not to be offended by this thread. Shouldn''t people know by now not to stereotype?
My previous e-ring was H color. Personally, if I had a bigger budget I would go up in size over color. My Asian friends don''t demand D color diamonds. In fact, one of them has a yellow diamond and another one has a pink sapphire for her e-ring.
I think people should be more careful when grouping one race into one lump. Think about how you would feel if someone said something negative about your entire race based on the action of a few.

End of speech

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/15/2009 8:58:37 PM
Author: chiapet
Trying very VERY hard not to be offended by this thread. Shouldn''t people know by now not to stereotype?

My previous e-ring was H color. Personally, if I had a bigger budget I would go up in size over color. My Asian friends don''t demand D color diamonds. In fact, one of them has a yellow diamond and another one has a pink sapphire for her e-ring.

I think people should be more careful when grouping one race into one lump. Think about how you would feel if someone said something negative about your entire race based on the action of a few.


End of speech

Nobody said specific preferences are negative.

 

[chiapet]

The words "shallow", "materialistic", and "driving me bonkers" all sound negative to me.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/15/2009 9:20:06 PM
Author: chiapet
The words 'shallow', 'materialistic', and 'driving me bonkers' all sound negative to me.

Those are definitely negative words - but the only folks I've seen use those words are the ones who are offended. I could have missed it though. And, I believe the posters who brought up the "asian thing" are in fact asian themselves.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/15/2009 9:20:06 PM
Author: chiapet
The words ''shallow'', ''materialistic'', and ''driving me bonkers'' all sound negative to me.

I find that asian people get offended easily.

Chiapet, I think it was Phoenix''s experience with the jewelers looking down on her that drove her bonkers, not just because they were asian. As to the other two words you quoted, you may want to look at the context in which they were used. No one on this thread said asians were shallow or materialistic. In fact, those words were to use that preference for color/clarity does NOT mean that someone is shallow or materialistic.

From Allycat:

"My sister''s engagement ring for her ex was also high quality (I don''t recall the specs) but he asked my fiance about 200 times about our grade/quality. So it is important to asian people. And no more materialistic or shallow then other people being obsessed with carat size. They just think different things are important. Nothing wrong with that."

From Mommabear:

"Not everyone cares for a big diamond. Sometimes, to others, quality is better than quantity. This is not necessarily Asian woman being shallow or materialistic."

And the OP merely stated that some people were offended because of the insinuation. She didn''t say they were. She was just sharing this story because a lot of people in another thread said clarity/color don''t matter to asians. As a cultural norm, I believe they do.

That''s pretty much it for those two words on this thread.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/15/2009 8:58:37 PM
Author: chiapet
Trying very VERY hard not to be offended by this thread. Shouldn''t people know by now not to stereotype?
My previous e-ring was H color. Personally, if I had a bigger budget I would go up in size over color. My Asian friends don''t demand D color diamonds. In fact, one of them has a yellow diamond and another one has a pink sapphire for her e-ring.
I think people should be more careful when grouping one race into one lump. Think about how you would feel if someone said something negative about your entire race based on the action of a few.

End of speech

Who''s stereotyping? No one is saying that asians are bad drivers or something. They are saying that culturally, color and clarity are valued over size.

No one said anything negative. My cousin hates kimchee. However I would feel very comfortable with saying Koreans eat and love kimchee. Because generally they do. There are exceptions. I think perhaps people are taking offense because higher clarity and color means more money and therefore asians must be shallow and materialistic. I think the point is (and what the OP made) is that many asian would prefer those two things over cut, and possibly size. I really don''t see the big deal with a statement like that.

I do value color myself - I have a F. Just a personal preference. I''m only sort of materialistic and shallow. Oh, and it''s a SI1 - something had to give!

 

[Black Jade]

I''m going to be blunt here.
Life is too short for all this over-sensitivity.
A negative stereotype is something that is harmful and impacts your life in some MEANINGFUL negative way.
I am black. Years ago (but not all that many years) I worked in an office where a while where the openly said perception was that blacks were thieves. People''s handbags started to be stolen in the office and a bunch of rules came down from on high, that no black mail room workers were to be allowed near the desks--things like that. When they had no idea who had done the actual stealing. The stereotype also was that blacks are more stupid. Therefore, even though I had a master''s degree from an Ivy League college, I was hired, not even as a secretary, but as a typist, because the assumption was that a black who had an Ivy League degree had been given it because of affirmative action, but still was not as intelligent as a white person. A few weeks after I was hired, a classmate of mine, with the same degrees, but white and male was hired for the position that I had initially sought and was paraded all over the office as being amazingly qualified.
I didn''t stay at that job too long, you can imagine. But other black people did. They had no choice, presumably.
THIS kind of thing is what people need to be sensitive to. This is what we need to argue against when we see happening.
It does still exist, although not to to the degree that it did when I was younger, and its improving all the time.
Making a statement that you notice that many Asian people, especially in native Asian cultures (Asian Americans are AMERICAN so of course behave differently) prefer very high color, high clarity diamonds is NOT doing some harmful, racist stereotyping that is hurting somebody. It is a simple observation, and was not presented in some way that was meant to offend, even. This would not fall into the category of unacknowledged racism that we need to hunt down and pillory the person responsible for to make the world safer in some way. This is more along the lines of, most white Americans like to suntan, or most blacks prefer music that has a rhythmic beat, or (gasp!) most women like diamonds and most of us would prefer to get one, if given a choice, for an engagement ring.
Of course you will some whites that like to stay out of the sun, or some women who''d rather have a colored gemstone or no ring at all--but these statements would be true in most cases, and quite inoffensive. It would seem that you could have a discussion about things like this, where people could even say, Well, I''m Asian and I don''t care if my diamonds are high clarity or not (as some people did), and people could just DISCUSS without getting accusatory and offended.
It just seems seems that it would be a more agreeable type of world then.
And I also think that it gets hard for people to realize what real racism and discrimination are when everybody is so touchy all the time that they are getting worked up about all these little things. Then when something real happens, everyone is so exhausted with having had to be PC all the time, that they don''t even realize it--and find it hard to care.
Racism is terrible but its also terrible the way free speech has gone to the dogs in the US recently. Free speech is a valuable thing. It''s hasn''t been around for a very long time in human history and doesn''t exist in many other countries. I think we should be very aware of it and be very careful about just throwing it away, as it seems that we are doing. I''d rather hear opinions that I disagree with, even REALLY disagree with than have everyone muzzled and watching their words all the time as seems to be happening.

 

[anyname]

hmm...i don''t think i''ve ever noticed the color or clarity thing. Though my mom isn''t into jewelry, her mother was, as are my paternal grandmother and aunt; and the only thing their diamonds all have in common is they are the size of small boulders. However, they are probably high color and clarity because i know how they are and it isn''t necessarily a cultural thing.

Though i did find it curious that i didn''t see any diamonds below a G while in Hong Kong.

/i think i''m babbling now...

 

[LAJennifer]

Very well said, Black Jade.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/15/2009 9:51:31 PM
Author: Black Jade
I''m going to be blunt here.
Life is too short for all this over-sensitivity.
A negative stereotype is something that is harmful and impacts your life in some MEANINGFUL negative way.
I am black. Years ago (but not all that many years) I worked in an office where a while where the openly said perception was that blacks were thieves. People''s handbags started to be stolen in the office and a bunch of rules came down from on high, that no black mail room workers were to be allowed near the desks--things like that. When they had no idea who had done the actual stealing. The stereotype also was that blacks are more stupid. Therefore, even though I had a master''s degree from an Ivy League college, I was hired, not even as a secretary, but as a typist, because the assumption was that a black who had an Ivy League degree had been given it because of affirmative action, but still was not as intelligent as a white person. A few weeks after I was hired, a classmate of mine, with the same degrees, but white and male was hired for the position that I had initially sought and was paraded all over the office as being amazingly qualified.
I didn''t stay at that job too long, you can imagine. But other black people did. They had no choice, presumably.
THIS kind of thing is what people need to be sensitive to. This is what we need to argue against when we see happening.
It does still exist, although not to to the degree that it did when I was younger, and its improving all the time.
Making a statement that you notice that many Asian people, especially in native Asian cultures (Asian Americans are AMERICAN so of course behave differently) prefer very high color, high clarity diamonds is NOT doing some harmful, racist stereotyping that is hurting somebody. It is a simple observation, and was not presented in some way that was meant to offend, even. This would not fall into the category of unacknowledged racism that we need to hunt down and pillory the person responsible for to make the world safer in some way. This is more along the lines of, most white Americans like to suntan, or most blacks prefer music that has a rhythmic beat, or (gasp!) most women like diamonds and most of us would prefer to get one, if given a choice, for an engagement ring.
Of course you will some whites that like to stay out of the sun, or some women who''d rather have a colored gemstone or no ring at all--but these statements would be true in most cases, and quite inoffensive. It would seem that you could have a discussion about things like this, where people could even say, Well, I''m Asian and I don''t care if my diamonds are high clarity or not (as some people did), and people could just DISCUSS without getting accusatory and offended.
It just seems seems that it would be a more agreeable type of world then.
And I also think that it gets hard for people to realize what real racism and discrimination are when everybody is so touchy all the time that they are getting worked up about all these little things. Then when something real happens, everyone is so exhausted with having had to be PC all the time, that they don''t even realize it--and find it hard to care.
Racism is terrible but its also terrible the way free speech has gone to the dogs in the US recently. Free speech is a valuable thing. It''s hasn''t been around for a very long time in human history and doesn''t exist in many other countries. I think we should be very aware of it and be very careful about just throwing it away, as it seems that we are doing. I''d rather hear opinions that I disagree with, even REALLY disagree with than have everyone muzzled and watching their words all the time as seems to be happening.

(that ivy league degree did you good.

)

 

[TravelingGal]

Gosh, that was such a good post, I read it again!

 

[Gypsy]

That was a very good post BlackJade.