The Age Old Question: Size vs. Color (2+ ct RB)

[jelliebellie]

First, I apologize for all the questions -- I'm a lurker but a newbie diamond purchaser.

Please help me select the perfect 2.0+ RB for my platinum solitaire setting.

I've narrowed it down to a couple of contenders at the moment. I've seen these stones in person, and they look very sparkly. Here are the contestants for the throwdown:

1) 2.50 G VS1 with AGS Triple 0. Nice spread (~8.60). Great sparkle, but I swear I could see a hint of beige there, especially next to Fs and Es. It's a good price for the size. I have an Idealscope, which I will post later down. I am not crazy about the HCA score, which is vgs across the board for a total of 3.3.

2) 2.03 F VVS2 with Excellent Cut, Polish, and Symmetry on GIA. Spread is ~8.08mm. Great sparkle, I couldn't see any color difference between this and Es. It has a ex-vg-vg-vg HCA score, totaling 1.9.

I have a few other stones I have yet to see in person. They are F VS1s, and range in spread from ~8.15-8.38mm, and have HCA scores ranging from 1.3 (ex-ex-ex-ex) to 1.6 (ex-ex-ex-vg). We are also looking at G VS1s, because you get more bang for your buck. I am still concerned bc of the beige/yellow I pick up from Gs, but perhaps it's in my mind's eye and not my real eyes???

I'd like your opinion on these two stones, and I'd also love to hear from G color owners. Do you pick up on yellow? Does the stone look whiter when mounted on platinum? I was told that Gs look darker than colorless stones when they get dirty - is this a big issue?

Ideally, I'd want an F stone in the 2.4 ct range, but for the specs I'm looking for, this would push our budget over $50k. So what's a girl to do? Will I regret going smaller for the sake of having an F color? Or will I regret going bigger, but having some yellow in the stone?

Also, I know many here say not to go for stones that get more than a 2.0 on the HCA, and to Idealscope those under 2.0. Perhaps I'd feel better with a G VS1 that gets a higher HCA?

Many many thanks!!!

 

[jelliebellie]

This is the Idealscope for the 2.50 G VS1.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I do not consider G to be even in the land of tinted at all, so any comments about it being yellow or looking more yellow when dirty seem very like "mind clean" issues to me.

I do know some cultures place a huge amount of emphasis on colorless diamonds, as do some jewelers for various reasons (both cultural and financial). Is that the case for you? Does everyone you know talk a lot about the importance of colorless stones?

If the answer is yes, then it does not matter what we say, or our experiences are, you need to buy the color that will make you most happy.

 

[ChrisES]

I do not consider G to be even in the land of tinted at all, so any comments about it being yellow or looking more yellow when dirty seem very like "mind clean" issues to me.

I do know some cultures place a huge amount of emphasis on colorless diamonds, as do some jewelers for various reasons (both cultural and financial). Is that the case for you? Does everyone you know talk a lot about the importance of colorless stones?

If the answer is yes, then it does not matter what we say, or our experiences are, you need to buy the color that will make you most happy.

Curious about this too, since everyone says that a well-cut G faces up white. Maybe the stone was picking up color for its surroundings, or some clothing?

On the other hand, I have read some posts from people who swear that they can see the difference between a D and F, which are supposed to both be colorless. So maybe jelliebellie is very color-sensitive?

 

[jelliebellie]

I do know some cultures place a huge amount of emphasis on colorless diamonds, as do some jewelers for various reasons (both cultural and financial). Is that the case for you? Does everyone you know talk a lot about the importance of colorless stones?

Not at all! I didn't even know about the differences in color until we started searching for the stone, about 2 weeks ago. I too think it's a "mind clean" issue. Especially, since it was next to Es and Fs and if I *had* to differentiate them, I could only hold onto differences in size and color. I think what's bothering me the most about this particular G stone is the HCA score.

 

[jelliebellie]

Or could it be that the AGS G is more akin to a GIA H, and that's why it looked "more yellow" next to GIA Es and Fs?

FWIW, the 2.5 G was the only stone with an AGS report.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Or could it be that the AGS G is more akin to a GIA H, and that's why it looked "more yellow" next to GIA Es and Fs?

FWIW, the 2.5 G was the only stone with an AGS report.

I dunno, I think people overstate the GIA versus AGS thing.

Of course you can see the difference between an E and a G (well come pople can't, but I can and you can apparently) because they are graded differently. The issue you should focus on is not whether you can see a tint in the G compared to an E, it is which diamond did you like more?

Can you post the complete information from the lab reports please.

 

[jelliebellie]

Here is the complete info from each report. I greatly appreciate any advice/feedback!

2.50 G VS1
Measurements 8.62x8.66x5.41mm
Cut Grade: Ideal (AGS Ideal 0 for Light Perf, Polish, Symmetry)
Fluorescence: Negligible
Table: 56.1%
Depth: 62.6%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick (Faceted)
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Culet: Pointed

2.03 F VVS2
Measurements: 8.06x8.13x5.06mm
Cut Grade: Ex
Polish and Symmetry: Ex
Fluorescence: None
Table: 55%
Depth: 62.5%
Girdle: Think to Medium (Faceted)
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Culet: None

 

[Dreamer_D]

I like the cut of the second better. I don't personally like to pay for such high clarity so would keep looking for a larger F/G VS2 myself.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I like the cut of the second better. I don't personally like to pay for such high clarity so would keep looking for a larger F/G VS2 myself.

yup,F VS2 sound like the best fit.

 

[jelliebellie]

I think I'd like to stay in the VS1 clarity - no need to go up, I agree. I think the 2.03 F VSS1 is overkill in terms of clarity, but I didn't want to eliminate it because of the color.

Why is the cut of the 2.5 G VS1 above inferior to the 2.03? I can't tell what the best "measurements" are, but really want to learn.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think I'd like to stay in the VS1 clarity - no need to go up, I agree. I think the 2.03 F VSS1 is overkill in terms of clarity, but I didn't want to eliminate it because of the color.

Why is the cut of the 2.5 G VS1 above inferior to the 2.03? I can't tell what the best "measurements" are, but really want to learn.

When you input the numbers of the 2.5 stone in the HCA, it falls clearly outside of the solid white lines of the AGS0 contenders. With a crown angle of 35.5 and a pavilion angle of 40.9, it falls into the steep/deep range where you could have light leakage. However, the AGS grade trumps the HCA in my opinion. Are you sure of those numbers?

The second stone has much better angles and would certainly be my preference. I would not pay for the VVS2 clarity though so I'd have to keep searching.

The center stone in my avatar is an AGS0, G color, SI1 clarity stone. For what it's worth, I do not see yellow in this stone at all - either from the top or the sides. The prongs are platinum but there is a yellow gold band that runs underneath of the prongs and I still see no yellow.

 

[jelliebellie]

That's why I was surprised to see the HCA score.

Here is the link to the 2.50 stone, with the AGS report.
http://www.bluenile.com//_LD02467223

I just noticed that on the BN page, it says the girdle is "extremely thin" which is setting off alarm bells. On the report, it says "thin to slightly thick" - which is right???

 

[MissGotRocks]

Yes, it surprises me too as those wouldn't be my favorite numbers. I would have to assume that the girdle information on the cert is more accurate.

Are you decided on this stone or are you going to continue looking?

Don't know what the prices is on that stone but here is another from Blue Nile: http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs1-clarity_LD02282882.. I prefer the cut of this stone more than the other.

 

[jelliebellie]

I am going to look at some more F and G VS1 stones tomorrow. I am still considering the 2.5 because it's a great size and I fear kicking myself later if I don't give it a fair shot, especially bc of the price. I really need to see it again in person to figure out if my mind is playing tricks on me re: the color.

So you think the AGS report looks good? I have a nagging feeling that something is off. And what about the light performance image from the report? I only see some leakage on the edges in that image - am I missing something?

 

[jelliebellie]

Yes, it surprises me too as those wouldn't be my favorite numbers. I would have to assume that the girdle information on the cert is more accurate.

Are you decided on this stone or are you going to continue looking?

Don't know what the prices is on that stone but here is another from Blue Nile: http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs1-clarity_LD02282882... I prefer the cut of this stone more than the other.

I saw that one, and it is absolutely amazing. The thing is it's about $10k more than the 2.5 I have on hold, and over our $50k budget.

So now I think there must really be something sinister about the one I have on hold...

 

[MissGotRocks]

I'd call BN and ask them about the price difference. I don't know that there is anything sinister in this but why the 10k price difference? One could have simply been around their inventory longer than the other and that could account for the difference.

You can always purchase the stone and return it if it is not to your liking. The final analysis is with your own eyes - that's the true test!

 

[jelliebellie]

Okay, I have a new stone that I am pretty sure is "The One" -- I saw it in person today, and fell in love with it. Curiously, it further confirmed my concerns with AGS grading stones more leniently when it comes to color. It is a 2.09 VS1 stone. Here are the specs:

On GIA:
Color: F
Measurements: 8.32*8.38*4.95mm
Cut: Ex
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Ex
Table: 60%
Depth: 59.3%
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Fluo: None
HCA 1.5 (vg-ex-vg-ex)


On AGS:
Color: E
Measurements: 8.34*8.39*4.96mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0 (Light Perf, Polish, Symm = 0)
Table: 59.6%
Depth: 59.2%
Crown Angle: 33.4
Pavilion Angle: 40.7
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Fluo: None
HCA 1.2 (ex-ex-ex-ex)

I have the image from the AGS report, which I can post.

So, I should be able to rely on it as an F color (if GIA is more stringent on that) and on the cut/HCA score based on the AGS report measurements (if AGS is more stringent on cut) -- right?

I'm very very excited, I LOOOOOOOVE this stone!

 

[MissGotRocks]

The good news is that you love it and that's what we love to hear!

I will point out, however, that it is what is commonly referred to as a 60/60 stone. This is a stone that has a larger table (60) and a depth of approximately the same measurement. This will generally produce a bright, white stone but is not the same cut as an ideal cut stone. It does, according to AGS, have ideal light return so this should be a great 60/60 stone. Interesting that it has a dual cert but you can always rely on the one with the better color for trade in or sale. Does this vendor offer an upgrade policy?

 

[jelliebellie]

Yes, I do think it's a "plus" that we will have both reports, and on both, it's a great diamond "on paper" -- not to mention it's amazing in person. It's like a mini flashlight, very very white and very very bright. It's got a good spread, too.

This was found by Perry @ LM, and he's absolutely phenomenal. I believe they have upgrades for stones purchased through them, but the upgrade must be an additional 50% of the cost of the original stone. I have to get the details in full.

Are you supposed to feel giddy when you find "The One"? Because even though the 2.50 G VS1 was lovely and had an amazing size, this one I feel is both mind and eye clean - and the size's pretty darn good, too.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Giddy is like icing on the cake - so glad that you feel that way! Congrats on finding a wonderful stone!

You know we will need lots and lots of pictures of your new ring!!!

 

[jelliebellie]

Giddy is like icing on the cake - so glad that you feel that way! Congrats on finding a wonderful stone!

You know we will need lots and lots of pictures of your new ring!!!

Thank you! I will most definitely post pics when it is all set.

I've been doing some more research on the 60:60 stones, which don't take away from how I feel about this particular one, but I think I want to get some questions answered before pulling the trigger.