The age old question, should I pay for the AGS0?

[jinx1832]

I have noticed a substantial difference in cost for the GIA EX and AGS0. I have been looking at a GIA diamond and a couple of AGS0 diamonds which are slightly larger (all eyeclean). Should i be happy with the GIA diamond or pay the extra for the AGS0 options?

GIA Option #1
Price: $5,700
Carat Weight: 1.16
Measurement: 6.76 x 6.79 x 4.16
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Polish: EX
Symmetry: EX
Cut: EX
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Depth %: 61.4
Table %: 55
Crown Angle 34
Pavilion Angle 40.8
Crown Height 15
Pavilion Depth 43

IdealScope for GIA diamond is attached.

Now for the AGS0 options:

AGS Option 1

AGS Option 2

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am of the opinion that you are buying the stone, and not the grading lab. There are GIA Excellents that are every bit as good as an AGS0 graded stone. So I wouldn't choose based on GIA versus AGS. What is unknown to me is who the first vendor is. Is is a drop shipper with a restrictive or no upgrade policy? In that case, I'd pay for the WF or GOG stones. They are charging a premium for hearts and arrows stones, not necessarily because they have AGS certs. I have H&A stones from both WF and GOG and GIA and AGS certs. The stones are all top quality.

In the choices you have made, you have to decide which has the best cut, and I'd also want the cleanest SI1 of the group. I'll look at them a little more and tell you which I'd select, but it would help to know which vendor has the first stone.

(Option 2 is GIA, not AGS, by the way. I also like this one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4002/ )

 

[neatfreak]

I agree with DS. I think all people try to say with the GIA vs. AGS debate is that there is a MUCH WIDER range for GIA Ex than there is for AGS0. So with no info, or limited info, AGS0 is always the safest. But with images, etc. from a GIA stone, if you love it, there is no reason not to go for it.

 

[jinx1832]

Thanks for your help Diamondseeker!

The vendor for the 1st diamond is ERD, Mark loves his GIA''s for obvious reasons.... According to Mark, the GIA diamond is eyeclean and has a center inclusion which is white (which he likes). I have attached a portion of the GIA cert for additional detail on the inclusions/dimensions.

 

[Lorelei]

Your diamond looks like an excellent contender! I too would definitely consider a GIA Excellent if the cut was great.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/20/2008 9:30:08 PM
Author: neatfreak
I agree with DS. I think all people try to say with the GIA vs. AGS debate is that there is a MUCH WIDER range for GIA Ex than there is for AGS0. So with no info, or limited info, AGS0 is always the safest. But with images, etc. from a GIA stone, if you love it, there is no reason not to go for it.

Ditto. And that first stone looks just great!

 

[haider]

It''s a subjective thing if YOUR eye like''s it, that''s all that matters. All these computer applications and contraptions are trying to do is build a formula for what your eyes detects. It''s not the other way around. One day these contraptions willl be able to be as good as your eye. They are far from it yet. Go with your eye and then use the certificate grades and stats etc to compare what is on the market to identify the going price for the diamond.MOST people couldn''t visually be able to sort out a bundle of stones into AGS 0, 1 and 2 grades with their eyes. At the very least find out if your eyes can tell the difference between AGS 0 , 1 and 2 diamonds. If you can''t then it might be worth spending the cash on somewhere you can tell the difference. I call it punching above your weight.

GIA conducted a large survey to build a picture of the diamonds people prefer. These people came from various backgrounds of diamond experience. They then built a grading system around it. So you can''t knock GIA. I''m not knocking AGS but I don''t recall them doing a big survey to verify that people actually prefer AGS cut 0 to AGS cut 1. No real-world testing there...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/21/2008 8:32:36 AM
Author: haider
It''s a subjective thing if YOUR eye like''s it, that''s all that matters. All these computer applications and contraptions are trying to do is build a formula for what your eyes detects. It''s not the other way around. One day these contraptions willl be able to be as good as your eye. They are far from it yet. Go with your eye and then use the certificate grades and stats etc to compare what is on the market to identify the going price for the diamond.MOST people couldn''t visually be able to sort out a bundle of stones into AGS 0, 1 and 2 grades with their eyes. At the very least find out if your eyes can tell the difference between AGS 0 , 1 and 2 diamonds. If you can''t then it might be worth spending the cash on somewhere you can tell the difference. I call it punching above your weight.

GIA conducted a large survey to build a picture of the diamonds people prefer. These people came from various backgrounds of diamond experience. They then built a grading system around it. So you can''t knock GIA. I''m not knocking AGS but I don''t recall them doing a big survey to verify that people actually prefer AGS cut 0 to AGS cut 1. No real-world testing there...

are you in the trade?
For 20 posts you sure are full of bad information and have little understanding of diamond performance and grading.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/20/2008 9:34:35 PM
Author: jinx1832
Thanks for your help Diamondseeker!

The vendor for the 1st diamond is ERD, Mark loves his GIA's for obvious reasons.... According to Mark, the GIA diamond is eyeclean and has a center inclusion which is white (which he likes). I have attached a portion of the GIA cert for additional detail on the inclusions/dimensions.

looks good to me the lgf% is around 77% which gia rounds to 75, if it was actually 75 it might be an issue with that c/p angle combination.

 

[haider]

Hi Veritas,

No I'm defintely not in the trade, totally independent, no vested interests here. If you want to point out the bad info, I'm happy to learn.


Thanks
Haider

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/21/2008 10:06:11 AM
Author: haider
Hi Veritas,

No I''m defintely not in the trade, totally independent, no vested interests here. If you want tyo point out the bad info I''m happy to learn.


Thanks
Haider

1: GIA system: it was mostly trade doing the viewing, limited lighting conditions, to many assumptions like if stone A is good then stone B is good too.

2: AGS1 .. why it got AGS1 is important information to have. AGS1 for finish with AGS0 light performance is a different story than AGS1 light performance. AGS grading validated what was in place before it came along with rounds. With princess cuts your arguments are stronger.

 

[jinx1832]

looks good to me the lgf% is around 77% which gia rounds to 75, if it was actually 75 it might be an issue with that c/p angle combination.

Veritas,

Can you elaborate on this statement, you kind of lost me. How can you figure out it is 77%?

Thanks!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/21/2008 11:21:21 AM
Author: jinx1832

looks good to me the lgf% is around 77% which gia rounds to 75, if it was actually 75 it might be an issue with that c/p angle combination.

Veritas,

Can you elaborate on this statement, you kind of lost me. How can you figure out it is 77%?

Thanks!

IS image
75 would be thicker arrows.

btw veritas is just part of my sig, everyone calls me storm.

 

[jinx1832]

Thanks Storm, so why does GIA round it to 75?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/21/2008 11:48:27 AM
Author: jinx1832
Thanks Storm, so why does GIA round it to 75?

the official excuse is that they do so because some scanners don''t measure it accurately and it don''t matter a lot. they are right on the first wrong on the second.

 

[haider]

It''s not what I read, an article from Good Old Gold: -

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Articles/GIAExConsumersBeAware/

My contention is that these cut grading systems are getting pushed as diamond beauty grading systems. Now if these are gonna be pushed as diamond beauty grading systems then GIA taking 70000 human observations is going down the correct route. I agree with you it should be a lot more exhaustive but at least they are taking a step however small.

That said I am fast realising there is no ideal cut merely the cut you prefer. I feel the general public are being led down a path where we believe there is 1 ideal cut, which there isn''t. It''s more like cars, some like Ferraris others Lamborghinis others Porsches and others Aston Martins. There is no universal standard of diamond beauty. The eye of the beholder must come first and foremost.

 

[butterfly 17]

Hi, the first diamond you posted looks nice, I would just be worried about the feathers. Esp. the one on the pavillion. It looks like it is fairly large and very close, if not right on the girdle.

I would ask if that would be a durability issue.

Other than that, there are a few things that could be making that diamond a little less, first off the carat weight. Even though it is only 4 points difference, that still makes a difference.

Secondly, the stones that you picked from GOG and WF are true H&A stones, and you expect to pay a bit more for that reassurance.

Some people don''t mind as long as there is a H&A formation, not perfect of course, but some people do.

I don''t think the price has anything to do with the stones being AGS or GIA cert. If you use the HCA above, you can also plug in all the numbers and to the right of the score you will see a grid where your diamond falls. If your diamond falls within the dotted line and the solid line, then it should meet both GIA EX and AGSO standards.

HOpe this helps and good luck!!!