The 294th mass shooting this year in the U.S.

[the_mother_thing]

That is your perspective. Is it not possible that your viewpoint is so illogical that almost everyone who reads it finds it so?

If I were to write an article and find it criticized by everyone who read it, I would at least examine the possibility that my article was less than stellar.

AGBF

I guess I am not entitled to my opinion. My bad. I suppose I just expected adults to discuss issues with at least mutual respect for others' viewpoints. Again, my bad.

 

[chemgirl]

My phone doesn't allow for normal quotes

Niel:

In my mind I find this type of gun control logical. I have always felt the same re: criminals having guns isn't the problem.

Me:

A friend who lives in the states asked my husband how he can be a man and protect his house without a gun. We have an alarm system, motion lights, deadbolts, and nosy neighbors. We are pretty safe all things considered.

As much as TV leads us to believe that there are people lurking about waiting to murder us in our sleep, the chances of it actually happening are pretty slim.

There are still shooting deaths here. Criminals do have guns. Sometimes innocent people get caught up in violence. For example there have been drive by shootings in Toronto in areas that I frequent. So if that happens and I had a gun what would I do? Would I chase them? Would I shoot into the street and risk injuring people? I just don't see how it could help the situation.

We're taught in school that if you see someone with a gun you leave/hide and then report. Don't stand your ground if threatened by violence, get yourself to safety.

Not much of a point in my ramblings. It's just such a complex issue from a psychological perspective. Many of the reasons people own guns don't hold water. I watched a comedy sketch about America's gun culture and at the end the comedian (can't remember his name) tells people who fight for their second amendment rights to just own it and admit that they have guns because they like them.

 

[packrat]

We do have them b/c we like them. Nothing wrong w/that.

 

[Gypsy]

We do have them b/c we like them. Nothing wrong w/that.

I agree with this. My husband shoots at the range and will be buying a gun soon. I also shoot at the range occasionally. We do not plan to use the gun for self-defense unless there really is a zombie apocalypse. Will not be getting a concealed weapon license. And will not, no matter where we live, terrorize people in coffee shops with open carry abuse. If we have kids we will teach them to handle a weapon safely. But they will not have access to the safe at all until they are 18 years old. And if they show signs of having a troubled psyche we will sell the gun and get rid of it.

I am a die hard liberal. I'm so liberal other liberals look at me in shock sometimes.

But I am also practical. US is never going to be gun free. And there is no problem with truly responsible gun ownership.

There is also no problem with responsible gun regulation.

I believe there is a very obvious middle ground between the two positions. And I truly believe that if our political system didn't allow so much money from special interests to corrupt it we would already have laws in place that worked and disasters like all the ones that happened yesterday would have been avoided.

 

[kenny]

... I watched a comedy sketch about America's gun culture and at the end the comedian (can't remember his name) tells people who fight for their second amendment rights to just own it and admit that they have guns because they like them.

LOVE this 3.5 minute skit!
This guy nails it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZIOE6aMBk

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Gypsy|

I am a die hard liberal. I'm so liberal other liberals look at me in shock sometimes.

[/quote]



78% of PSers lean to the left...

 

[packrat]

There has to be a middle ground..and I know there is, somewhere, we just need the right people to get us there. I have my CWW, and I have a gun, but I don't carry b/c I've not had a chance to use it/handle it/get comfortable w/it, so as a responsible owner, that's what I choose to do. JD's been handling since he was a kid, and I've not, so I'm not comfortable enough w/it yet. I don't go for open carry either, and neither does JD. I don't understand the logic behind it-yeah it's my right, but again, as a responsible owner, it's my duty, and my responsibility, to respect the fact that not everyone is comfortable seeing visible firearms and really, what's to be gained by scaring the bejeezus out of others..and making oneself a target?

 

[Rhapsody]

I was in high school during Columbine at a school near by and local to the Aurora shooting so I've personally dealt with a few of these and you just start to wonder if the world has really gone hell in a hand basket. There's really just no way to wrap your head around it. It seems futile to try to figure out a why to actions that are so painfully destructive. But like others have said tossing around the word "crazy" isn'y helpful, it doesn't provide any information and unnecessarily maligns people with legitimate mental illness who rarely are violent.

Trying to implement "common sense gun laws" might seem so reasonable but people are lazy and really hate having restrictions put on things they think they have a right to. Try to take a persons car away for 6 months after a DUI and he'll scream bloody murder and we're obviously not even dealing with the constitution.

As for keeping a gun myself; I was assaulted once and realized that unless I had a weapon in my hand at the moment something happened it wouldn't be helpful. And in the house I'd rather have good locks, a good alarm and my dog.

 

[chemgirl]

We do have them b/c we like them. Nothing wrong w/that.

Sorry if I implied that there was something wrong with it.

Most of my family has guns. We go hunting. We go shooting at the farm. We collect antique guns.

We lock everything up safe and sound when we're done.

I just see no reason for anyone to have the kind of fire power necessary to take out a room of people.

 

[kenny]

Politicians like being elected and reelected.
The gun lobby can kill a sitting politician or a candidate faster than any gun could.

America is no longer a democracy.
American politics has become a whore to money.

 

[packrat]

it's a cheerocracy and i'm the cheertator!

 

[packrat]

Money is more important than people's lives, full stop, no matter where you stand, and that is disgusting.

 

[Niel]

it's a cheerocracy and i'm the cheertator!

You're being a cheertator Tor and a pain in my ass.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I can't even bring myself to comment on some of the things mentioned in this thread. It just makes me sad. However, I think it is concerning how easy it is to obtain and keep weapons. I work in the mental health field. The majority of my patients are nonviolent people so I am not generalizing or saying untreated mental illness leads to every murder/mass shooting in our country. I have noticed, however, that unless there is prior police involvement there is no way to ensure that suicidal patients remove guns from their home. We ask them to. We speak to the family (Assuming we have consent). But in my state, there is no clear way to monitor (A) who is buying the guns and their history of violence (self or otherwise) and (B) what happens to the guns when someone DOES seek treatment. This is a discussion I have had frequently with my coworkers. Can the majority of gun owners responsibly use their guns? Yes. But what do we do when we KNOW someone is unstable and are helpless to prevent future/possible issues? When I worked in a locked, inpatient, psych unit many of my patients own guns and sometimes that keeps me up at night. I don't know the answer. I just hope someone figures it out soon. I hate that my child has "active shooting" school drills they way I had tornado drills growing up. I cannot imagine anything scarier than being involved in a mass shooting.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't go for open carry either, and neither does JD. I don't understand the logic behind it-yeah it's my right, but again, as a responsible owner, it's my duty, and my responsibility, to respect the fact that not everyone is comfortable seeing visible firearms and really, what's to be gained by scaring the bejeezus out of others..and making oneself a target?

Thank you!

I always think of this comedy routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk

And for me the open carry is the sign.

I just see no reason for anyone to have the kind of fire power necessary to take out a room of people.

I totally agree.

Money is more important than people's lives, full stop, no matter where you stand, and that is disgusting.

Agree here too.

 

[Rhea]

I feel for the US. It's gotten into a deadlock where no one can win and innocent people are dying. I'm preparing myself for yet another Thanksgiving in London (no, it's not celebrated, but I'm American) with a table full of Brtis trying to explain the American psyche that contributes to this and failing miserably. If something isn't working, trying a different tactic is always a smart idea. Or alternatively the US could continue on this path while the rest of the world looks on wondering if the powers that be understand the definition of insane.

Stats, according to the BBC-
294 mass shootings - defined as an incident in which four or more people are killed or injured by gun - so far in 2015.

45 shootings at schools during the same period, although those figures include occasions when a gun was fired but no-one was hurt (ah, okay, there was a gun fired in the school but no one was hurt during some of those )

"And while it is the school shootings and other mass shootings that capture the world's attention, the vast majority of gun deaths in the US occur in smaller, often unreported incidents. According to the Gun Violence Archive, 9,956 people have been killed by firearms so far this year and more than 20,000 have been injured.

So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the Revolutionary War to Iraq."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385

 

[arkieb1]

One day a politician will have the balls to stand up and say enough is enough, gun control is not about banning all guns. You can own guns like we do here, it's about regulating who has the guns, how many guns you can own and the type of guns that you have in order to prevent mass shootings and reduce gun related crime overall. It will take painstakingly unpopular reform and new laws, a large commitment of government funding and a massive change in thinking to get the job done properly.

 

[Matata]

I feel for the US. It's gotten into a deadlock where no one can win and innocent people are dying. I'm preparing myself for yet another Thanksgiving in London (no, it's not celebrated, but I'm American) with a table full of Brtis trying to explain the American psyche that contributes to this and failing miserably.

Just tell them that our bassackward solution is to reduce the number of people (which you can prove through those references you cited) rather than the number of guns. It's a solution endorsed through the NRAs slogan "Guns don't shoot people. People shoot people." Fewer people = less shooting regardless of whether the number of guns increases or decreases.

 

[Karl_K]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

 

[Matata]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

And if you research deeper, you'll see that the police department chief believes that the laws are still not tough enough and he is advocating for more control. The shootings are not because the "liberal agenda gun laws are effect", it's because the laws are not extensive enough to curb straw sales, and the City is working on that.

 

[Karl_K]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

And if you research deeper, you'll see that the police department chief believes that the laws are still not tough enough and he is advocating for more control. The shootings are not because the "liberal agenda gun laws are effect", it's because the laws are not extensive enough to curb straw sales, and the City is working on that.

In IL transferring a firearm to someone without a FOID card is a felony and there is a instant check for the FOID card that uses the federal database that you are required to use to transfer the firearm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_%28firearms%29

 

[Matata]

In IL transferring a firearm to someone without a FOID card is a felony and there is a instant check for the FOID card that uses the federal database that you are required to use to transfer the firearm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_%28firearms%29

At the time the wikipedia entry was written, it said the FOID database was 60 days behind. Not enough people to keep it up-to-date. The Chicago police chief stated that there are still too many guns being sold. And it appears that those who are supposed to follow FOID rules don't always. Which is just one more example of how difficult it is to effect any kind of change.

 

[Tekate]

A cop I know once told me the way to stop gun violence is to give EVERYONE a gun -Yes it's true he said that- up until that moment I thought he was an intelligent cop.

I'm sure they all just had guns to defend their families.

Clearly the answer is to sell a gun to every US citizen, age 0 to 125.
Let em pack their gun at school.

 

[House Cat]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

Per capita numbers?


Let's not use one of the most densely populated areas of the nation as an example to push a pro-gun agenda. Once we go per capita, we see that liberal gun laws DO work. Hawaii, California, etc have the fewest gun deaths per capita.

 

[Tekate]

everyone has rights, even pedophiles.. once we lose the law, we become a mob, mobs are bad. many people who break the law do go to jail, or die.

 

[Karl_K]

In IL transferring a firearm to someone without a FOID card is a felony and there is a instant check for the FOID card that uses the federal database that you are required to use to transfer the firearm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_%28firearms%29

At the time the wikipedia entry was written, it said the FOID database was 60 days behind. Not enough people to keep it up-to-date. The Chicago police chief stated that there are still too many guns being sold. And it appears that those who are supposed to follow FOID rules don't always. Which is just one more example of how difficult it is to effect any kind of change.

I see.. put a heavier yolk on We the people because the government can not do its job.
Not that I am a fan of the foid system and frankly consider it unconstitutional.

 

[Karl_K]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

Per capita numbers?


Let's not use one of the most densely populated areas of the nation as an example to push a pro-gun agenda. Once we go per capita, we see that liberal gun laws DO work. Hawaii, California, etc have the fewest gun deaths per capita.

But if it worked then Chicago should be the safest place on earth.

 

[Tekate]

But if it worked then Chicago should be the safest place on earth

https://reason.com/archives/2014/07/21/the-truth-about-violence-in-chicago

it's not as bad as everyone thinks.. why is there so much violence there; gangs. HIGH unemployment, I am SURE you are aware Karl that gun laws won't fix what is wrong in Chi-town, but jobs will help a lot. A full out assault on gangs sounds good to me, in those cities where gangs are very active.

home invasion:

http://www.homeinvasionnews.com/if-you-see-these-home-invasion-statistics-dont-look/

we've gone nuts.

 

[House Cat]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

Per capita numbers?


Let's not use one of the most densely populated areas of the nation as an example to push a pro-gun agenda. Once we go per capita, we see that liberal gun laws DO work. Hawaii, California, etc have the fewest gun deaths per capita.

But if it worked then Chicago should be the safest place on earth.

By that logic, if liberal gun laws didn't work, Hawaii and California would have the highest murder rates in the nation.

Flawed logic will get us nowhere, but it sure can be fun to throw around.

 

[Karl_K]

A place where all the liberal agenda gun laws are in effect:
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
There where over 50 shootings just this last weekend.

No thanks I will keep mine.

Per capita numbers?


Let's not use one of the most densely populated areas of the nation as an example to push a pro-gun agenda. Once we go per capita, we see that liberal gun laws DO work. Hawaii, California, etc have the fewest gun deaths per capita.

But if it worked then Chicago should be the safest place on earth.

By that logic, if liberal gun laws didn't work, Hawaii and California would have the highest murder rates in the nation.

Flawed logic will get us nowhere, but it sure can be fun to throw around.

How would you explain Oakland CA and Stockton, Ca two of the very most dangerous cities in the US?
Or East Palo Alto, CA?
Or Compton, CA?