shape
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The 294th mass shooting this year in the U.S.

packrat

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I would call it more that America has decided they're too chicken shit to talk about crime and criminals and *why* this stuff happens and *who* is in fact behind every gun death and America is too chicken shit to *do* anything about crime and criminals and why this stuff happens and who is in fact behind every gun death.
 

the_mother_thing

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packrat|1443791627|3934040 said:
I would call it more that America has decided they're too chicken shit to talk about crime and criminals and *why* this stuff happens and *who* is in fact behind every gun death and America is too chicken shit to *do* anything about crime and criminals and why this stuff happens and who is in fact behind every gun death.

I would agree with this.
 

AGBF

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JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.

Common sense? Are you claiming that it is common sense and not religion that dictates that sperm is "life" and that it is a sin to spill it, the equivalent of killing a child? What a LIE. Only a few religions call the sperm and egg joined for one hour a "child"!!!

AGBF
 

decisively_unsure

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Your media and your government tell you there is an unprecedented terrorist threat, yet there are going to be over 10,000 gun deaths in 2015 in America from "homegrown" people. It's such a shame that this is not the real focus.
 

momhappy

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JaneSmith|1443759591|3933984 said:
Everyone can just stop with assuming every shooter is crazy. It furthers the stigmatization of mentally ill people who are themselves more likely to be the victims of violent crime than perpetrators.
Shooters can be angry, bigoted, feel entitled or owed something, or may be seeking notoriety or entrance into a gang.

The latest news story I know of involving an armed citizen trying to aid a victim of a crime is horrendous. A man was getting carjacked, and another guy tries to intervene by drawing his gun and shooting at the carjackers, but he hits the driver in the head. Gun guy then picks up his casings and flees.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-with-a-gun-shoots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/
All hail the second amendment, another member of the well-armed militia has prevented tyranny.

No one is "stigmatizing" the mentally ill. Normal/sane people don't maliciously shoot other people. Period. Being angry, bigoted, feeling entitled, seeking notoriety, etc. does not give you an excuse to shoot someone because normal/sane people can be angry, bigoted, feeling entitled, or seeking notoriety too, but they still don't shoot people - unless, of course, they're not sane........

And for every story like the one you shared, there is one about how a gun saved someone's life.
 

ame

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v
JoCoJenn|1443791139|3934037 said:
ame|1443790304|3934034 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.
I am pro-choice, and have no issue with a woman's right to choose. You have no idea what is going on in that person's life or why that pregnancy is being terminated nor is it your business. But it is your business that her procedure is done safely by a licensed and well trained doctor who won't get blown up on their way to and from work by someone who somehow believes that bombing people somehow makes them better than a doctor that performs abortions.

But someone walking into a school with a gun they purchased with the express intention of knowingly mowing down a room full of kids is a completely different story. Mental illness or not. And let's be real: that is some form of illness.

Pro-choice or Mental illness with a goal of shooting children - end result is the same: DEAD CHILDREN. Why condone one and not the other? You could argue that you don't know what's going through the mind of a mentally ill killer or someone with an ax to grind, so by all means, don't infringe on their rights either!

Let's be really real - anyone who can take a life at any stage has a form of mental illness.

FTR - I am NOT 'for' anyone committing a crime with a gun or any other tool they choose to use in the taking of life. My point is to be okay with one and not the other is IMO a demonstration of pure hypocrisy.


JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.
Trying to convince me that what you just said is based on logic and reason after what you just said? Sorry. I can't with you.
 

decisively_unsure

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Guns don't save people in America, they just kill people... Canada has the same gun laws, but a tiny fraction of gun deaths even taking population numbers into consideration.

I live in the UK, the police don't carry guns, neither do the people. For those few that do we have armed response units. It's incredible how trigger happy the US is.
 

OreoRosies86

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JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.
 

the_mother_thing

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AGBF|1443792091|3934043 said:
JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.

Common sense? Are you claiming that it is common sense and not religion that dictates that sperm is "life" and that it is a sin to spill it, the equivalent of killing a child? What a LIE. Only a few religions call the sperm and egg joined for one hour a "child"!!!

AGBF

I am NOT bringing religion into the discussion nor is it the basis for my position, so please don't put words into my posts that I did not state. If we cannot discuss religion in opposition to a different viewpoint, you shouldn't allege it as the basis for my opinion either.

If the 'parts' of unborn human babies are sufficiently useful to study for human life science and the research of human disease, then they must be a human life to begin with. THAT is my belief. Again - the end result is the same - dead children.

I am saying that IMO a willingness to take ANY human life - regardless of how some may choose to make it more warm & fuzzy for their own conscience - requires a lack of value for human life - period. And I view that as a form of mental illness because it is a conscience decision by the person taking that life. The only caveat being self defense because basic survival instincts take over in the face of an imminent threat.
 

the_mother_thing

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Elliot86|1443793315|3934055 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.

The end result is the same - dead children.
 

Niel

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JoCoJenn|1443791139|3934037 said:
ame|1443790304|3934034 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.
I am pro-choice, and have no issue with a woman's right to choose. You have no idea what is going on in that person's life or why that pregnancy is being terminated nor is it your business. But it is your business that her procedure is done safely by a licensed and well trained doctor who won't get blown up on their way to and from work by someone who somehow believes that bombing people somehow makes them better than a doctor that performs abortions.

But someone walking into a school with a gun they purchased with the express intention of knowingly mowing down a room full of kids is a completely different story. Mental illness or not. And let's be real: that is some form of illness.

Pro-choice or Mental illness with a goal of shooting children - end result is the same: DEAD CHILDREN. Why condone one and not the other? You could argue that you don't know what's going through the mind of a mentally ill killer or someone with an ax to grind, so by all means, don't infringe on their rights either!

Let's be really real - anyone who can take a life at any stage has a form of mental illness.

FTR - I am NOT 'for' anyone committing a crime with a gun or any other tool they choose to use in the taking of life. My point is to be okay with one and not the other is IMO a demonstration of pure hypocrisy.


What an absurd statement. Comparing a 4 year old child to a 6 week old zygote (the vast majority of abortions done at that time) is nonsensical and done only to illicit a strong reaction.



And maybe you're unaware but this isn't the time for your stance on abortion.
 

OreoRosies86

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JoCoJenn|1443794113|3934061 said:
Elliot86|1443793315|3934055 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.

The end result is the same - dead children.


So you are comparing a fetus, whose very existence depends entirely upon the woman, a woman who for any number of reasons may choose to safely terminate and are completely within legal and ethical boundaries to do so. You liken this to walking into a school of children who are actively being raised by their parents and murdering them.

Is that right?
 

Niel

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Elliot86|1443794985|3934066 said:
JoCoJenn|1443794113|3934061 said:
Elliot86|1443793315|3934055 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.

The end result is the same - dead children.


So you are comparing a fetus, whose very existence depends entirely upon the woman, a woman who for any number of reasons may choose to safely terminate and are completely within legal and ethical boundaries to do so. You liken this to walking into a school of children who are actively being raised by their parents and murdering them.

Is that right?


Sounds about right. She is talking, as she said, common sense, after all.
 

Laila619

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Elliot86|1443794985|3934066 said:
JoCoJenn|1443794113|3934061 said:
Elliot86|1443793315|3934055 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.

The end result is the same - dead children.


So you are comparing a fetus, whose very existence depends entirely upon the woman, a woman who for any number of reasons may choose to safely terminate and are completely within legal and ethical boundaries to do so. You liken this to walking into a school of children who are actively being raised by their parents and murdering them.

Is that right?

Completely ridiculous and makes no sense. They are not comparable.

And for the record, I am pro-life and anti-guns.
 

packrat

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Please do not say guns don't save people and only kill people. That is ignorant and a bold faced lie meant to incite.
 

the_mother_thing

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ame|1443792998|3934052 said:
v
JoCoJenn|1443791139|3934037 said:
ame|1443790304|3934034 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.
I am pro-choice, and have no issue with a woman's right to choose. You have no idea what is going on in that person's life or why that pregnancy is being terminated nor is it your business. But it is your business that her procedure is done safely by a licensed and well trained doctor who won't get blown up on their way to and from work by someone who somehow believes that bombing people somehow makes them better than a doctor that performs abortions.

But someone walking into a school with a gun they purchased with the express intention of knowingly mowing down a room full of kids is a completely different story. Mental illness or not. And let's be real: that is some form of illness.

Pro-choice or Mental illness with a goal of shooting children - end result is the same: DEAD CHILDREN. Why condone one and not the other? You could argue that you don't know what's going through the mind of a mentally ill killer or someone with an ax to grind, so by all means, don't infringe on their rights either!

Let's be really real - anyone who can take a life at any stage has a form of mental illness.

FTR - I am NOT 'for' anyone committing a crime with a gun or any other tool they choose to use in the taking of life. My point is to be okay with one and not the other is IMO a demonstration of pure hypocrisy.


JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.
Trying to convince me that what you just said is based on logic and reason after what you just said? Sorry. I can't with you.

It's not my goal to make you do anything. THIS is the uncomfortable part of this debate that no one wants to tackle - how decisions in one "movement" carry over into others. You can't have it both ways. You can't say in one breath you are okay with babies dying because it's not your business, but when children die by gun vs forceps, it's a problem. You either value life, or you do not.
 

momhappy

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I'm going to end my participation in this thread. I agree - we have a major gun/violence problem in the U.S. I don't know how to solve it - I wish I did. I don't think that banning guns is a realistic expectation and we should therefore focus our efforts on things that are realistic. The dialogue goes round and round, after each incident/shooting, and it's always the same. I wish that I didn't feel the need to own a gun to protect myself and my family, but I do. If others feel differently, I can respect that. If one truly wants to make change, there are lots of ways to get involved, so I think that I'm better off focusing my attention on those efforts.
 

the_mother_thing

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Elliot86|1443794985|3934066 said:
JoCoJenn|1443794113|3934061 said:
Elliot86|1443793315|3934055 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.

I've read this three times and am still utterly baffled as to why you believe these are related.

The end result is the same - dead children.


So you are comparing a fetus, whose very existence depends entirely upon the woman, a woman who for any number of reasons may choose to safely terminate and are completely within legal and ethical boundaries to do so. You liken this to walking into a school of children who are actively being raised by their parents and murdering them.

Is that right?

Regardless of how one chooses to justify or spin it for their selfish conscience, taking a life is murder - period. THAT is what I am saying, and to be okay with one and not the other is hypocritical.
 

Niel

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JoCoJenn|1443797865|3934079 said:
ame|1443792998|3934052 said:
v
JoCoJenn|1443791139|3934037 said:
ame|1443790304|3934034 said:
JoCoJenn|1443790104|3934033 said:
ame|1443789823|3934031 said:
This tweet says it all for me.

I wonder how that same person feels about abortion, which preceded Sandy Hook.
I am pro-choice, and have no issue with a woman's right to choose. You have no idea what is going on in that person's life or why that pregnancy is being terminated nor is it your business. But it is your business that her procedure is done safely by a licensed and well trained doctor who won't get blown up on their way to and from work by someone who somehow believes that bombing people somehow makes them better than a doctor that performs abortions.

But someone walking into a school with a gun they purchased with the express intention of knowingly mowing down a room full of kids is a completely different story. Mental illness or not. And let's be real: that is some form of illness.

Pro-choice or Mental illness with a goal of shooting children - end result is the same: DEAD CHILDREN. Why condone one and not the other? You could argue that you don't know what's going through the mind of a mentally ill killer or someone with an ax to grind, so by all means, don't infringe on their rights either!

Let's be really real - anyone who can take a life at any stage has a form of mental illness.

FTR - I am NOT 'for' anyone committing a crime with a gun or any other tool they choose to use in the taking of life. My point is to be okay with one and not the other is IMO a demonstration of pure hypocrisy.


JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.
Trying to convince me that what you just said is based on logic and reason after what you just said? Sorry. I can't with you.

It's not my goal to make you do anything. THIS is the uncomfortable part of this debate that no one wants to tackle - how decisions in one "movement" carry over into others. You can't have it both ways. You can't say in one breath you are okay with babies dying because it's not your business, but when children die by gun vs forceps, it's a problem. You either value life, or you do not.


You can believe whatever you want, but don't accuse others who don't follow your BELIEFS of not having an ethical value on human life.

You can preface your statements with "these aren't religious based" but that doesn't change the fact that they are. Might want to find a thread that allows for such posts.
 

OreoRosies86

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My conscience is perfectly clear, but I don't wish to devote time to a discussion fueled by zealotry.
 

Laila619

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momhappy|1443798124|3934080 said:
I'm going to end my participation in this thread. I agree - we have a major gun/violence problem in the U.S. I don't know how to solve it - I wish I did. I don't think that banning guns is a realistic expectation and we should therefore focus our efforts on things that are realistic. The dialogue goes round and round, after each incident/shooting, and it's always the same. I wish that I didn't feel the need to own a gun to protect myself and my family, but I do. If others feel differently, I can respect that. If one truly wants to make change, there are lots of ways to get involved, so I think that I'm better off focusing my attention on those efforts.

And THAT is the problem. You and a lot of other Americans feel the need to own a gun to protect yourself because we're living in the wild west. No one is safe here. Forget worrying about terrorists overseas, the terrorism and murder is happening in our own backyards. We need guns for protection in the U.S. because we live in such an unsafe place. No one's kids are safe in school though. You can't have your 6 year old conceal carry. So what then? Start having armed guards everywhere?
 

House Cat

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I would appreciate if the people of this thread would be VERY careful about how they throw around the term "mental illness." You may have a personal belief that the shooters are mentally ill, but if the shooters are not formally diagnosed, then this is not an absolute truth.

Killing people is not a qualifier for mental illness. If it were, we would have an entire military full of mentally ill people, same with our police force...do you see?


People may have a moment of rage that makes them do "crazy" things, but that still doesn't qualify them as "mentally ill."

So please, do not spread stigma by saying that this is an act of a "crazy person." You are insulting many, many harmless people with mental illness when you do so.

Remember, people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violent crime, not perpetrators.
 

OreoRosies86

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House Cat makes an excellent point. Remember when the media was so lightning fast to label Adam Lanza as autistic? It's just another blood boiling example of throwing around buzzwords to slap a label on an issue which is immensely complex.
 

the_mother_thing

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House Cat|1443800360|3934099 said:
I would appreciate if the people of this thread would be VERY careful about how they throw around the term "mental illness." You may have a personal belief that the shooters are mentally ill, but if the shooters are not formally diagnosed, then this is not an absolute truth.

Killing people is not a qualifier for mental illness. If it were, we would have an entire military full of mentally ill people, same with our police force...do you see?


People may have a moment of rage that makes them do "crazy" things, but that still doesn't qualify them as "mentally ill."

So please, do not spread stigma by saying that this is an act of a "crazy person." You are insulting many, many harmless people with mental illness when you do so.

Remember, people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violent crime, not perpetrators.

I only ask the same respect be afforded to those who choose to carry a gun and abide by the laws. Just because someone has a moment of rage and uses a gun to take a life does not mean all guns are bad and should go away. It means that PERSON should be held accountable for their actions; it doesn't mean my rights should be taken away because someone else commits a crime. If that were the case, no one should own a car, knife, or a bottle of alcohol.

Niel|1443798279|3934084 said:
You can believe whatever you want, but don't accuse others who don't follow your BELIEFS of not having an ethical value on human life.

You can preface your statements with "these aren't religious based" but that doesn't change the fact that they are. Might want to find a thread that allows for such posts.

1) I am more than open to a discussion about how taking an innocent life via abortion is somehow different than taking an innocent life by a criminal shooting someone. All I have read here thus far is that when its abortion, it's somehow okay, not my business, a woman's right, etc. But that doesn't change the end result - an innocent life taken. I would LOVE to understand opposing views that don't equate the two and why.

2) My statements are NOT fueled by religious beliefs. You saying they are does not make it fact, and if it's your opinion, it is wrong, as you don't know what - if any - religious beliefs I have. I only added that statement because someone else edited theirs to allege a religious basis to the abortion comparison, so I was clarifying my statement. I agree there are many whose views on abortion are fueled by their religious beliefs; mine however are not.

3) To suggest I stifle my participation in the discussion when I have not broken any forum rules I am aware of IMO is rude. You learn nothing new when you surround yourself only with likeminded opinions. I prefer to be open to the views and opinions of others to learn and consider different perspectives in my own positions. I have actually been known to change my opinions on things based on facts, others' perspectives and experience. Case in point - I used to be prochoice.
 

the_mother_thing

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Laila619|1443800152|3934097 said:
momhappy|1443798124|3934080 said:
I'm going to end my participation in this thread. I agree - we have a major gun/violence problem in the U.S. I don't know how to solve it - I wish I did. I don't think that banning guns is a realistic expectation and we should therefore focus our efforts on things that are realistic. The dialogue goes round and round, after each incident/shooting, and it's always the same. I wish that I didn't feel the need to own a gun to protect myself and my family, but I do. If others feel differently, I can respect that. If one truly wants to make change, there are lots of ways to get involved, so I think that I'm better off focusing my attention on those efforts.

And THAT is the problem. You and a lot of other Americans feel the need to own a gun to protect yourself because we're living in the wild west. No one is safe here. Forget worrying about terrorists overseas, the terrorism and murder is happening in our own backyards. We need guns for protection in the U.S. because we live in such an unsafe place. No one's kids are safe in school though. You can't have your 6 year old conceal carry. So what then? Start having armed guards everywhere?

Politicians are protected by armed guards, the presidents children's school is protected by armed guards. Why do I and my family deserve any less? I cannot afford a bodyguard, so I instead choose to carry, train, and protect my family myself, just like those armed guards do for others.
 

Niel

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JoCoJenn|1443801671|3934111 said:
House Cat|1443800360|3934099 said:
I would appreciate if the people of this thread would be VERY careful about how they throw around the term "mental illness." You may have a personal belief that the shooters are mentally ill, but if the shooters are not formally diagnosed, then this is not an absolute truth.

Killing people is not a qualifier for mental illness. If it were, we would have an entire military full of mentally ill people, same with our police force...do you see?


People may have a moment of rage that makes them do "crazy" things, but that still doesn't qualify them as "mentally ill."

So please, do not spread stigma by saying that this is an act of a "crazy person." You are insulting many, many harmless people with mental illness when you do so.

Remember, people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violent crime, not perpetrators.

I only ask the same respect be afforded to those who choose to carry a gun and abide by the laws. Just because someone has a moment of rage and uses a gun to take a life does not mean all guns are bad and should go away. It means that PERSON should be held accountable for their actions; it doesn't mean my rights should be taken away because someone else commits a crime. If that were the case, no one should own a car, knife, or a bottle of alcohol.

Niel|1443798279|3934084 said:
You can believe whatever you want, but don't accuse others who don't follow your BELIEFS of not having an ethical value on human life.

You can preface your statements with "these aren't religious based" but that doesn't change the fact that they are. Might want to find a thread that allows for such posts.

1) I am more than open to a discussion about how taking an innocent life via abortion is somehow different than taking an innocent life by a criminal shooting someone. All I have read here thus far is that when its abortion, it's somehow okay, not my business, a woman's right, etc. But that doesn't change the end result - an innocent life taken. I would LOVE to understand opposing views that don't equate the two and why.

2) My statements are NOT fueled by religious beliefs. You saying they are does not make it fact, and if it's your opinion, it is wrong, as you don't know what - if any - religious beliefs I have. I only added that statement because someone else edited theirs to allege a religious basis to the abortion comparison, so I was clarifying my statement. I agree there are many whose views on abortion are fueled by their religious beliefs; mine however are not.

3) To suggest I stifle my participation in the discussion when I have not broken any forum rules I am aware of IMO is rude. You learn nothing new when you surround yourself only with likeminded opinions. I prefer to be open to the views and opinions of others to learn and consider different perspectives in my own positions. I have actually been known to change my opinions on things based on facts, others' perspectives and experience. Case in point - I used to be prochoice.

I think you're rude for turning a completely different topic into a discussion you wanted dabout abortion. Start an abortion thread, don't thread jack other threads with your ideals.

The reason people consider a shooting of a PERSON different from an abortion of cells isn't confusing, if you don't understand that, that's becuase you choose not to.

Each person's believe on abortion is fine, but the difference between your opinion and mine is that yours includes forcing your opinion on others, i.e. outlawing abortions.


I'm happy to discuss gun control in this thread, but I don't plan to discuss abortion anymore.

Make a thread about it, if its a topic that interests you. :wavey:
 

AGBF

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JoCoJenn|1443794073|3934060 said:
AGBF|1443792091|3934043 said:
JoCoJenn|1443791236|3934038 said:
PS - my comments are NOT religion-based, rather, logic & common sense based. Discussion of religion on PS is a no no.

Common sense? Are you claiming that it is common sense and not religion that dictates that sperm is "life" and that it is a sin to spill it, the equivalent of killing a child? What a LIE. Only a few religions call the sperm and egg joined for one hour a "child"!!!

I am NOT bringing religion into the discussion nor is it the basis for my position
...​
.

I am saying that IMO a willingness to take ANY human life - regardless of how some may choose to make it more warm & fuzzy for their own conscience - requires a lack of value for human life - period.

I am glad to hear that your religious beliefs are not entwined in in what you wrote. I need have no compunction in telling you that my beliefs differ from yours, therefore, without fear that I am discussing that forbidden topic: religion, which you have so assiduously avoided.

Unlike you, I do not believe that when an egg and sperm are first introduced that they are "a child". I do not believe that they are "a human being". I believe that in the first few hours, even days, after an egg and a sperm meet they are a couple of cells. They do not feel or think as humans do. They certainly do not go to school the way the children did in Newtown, Connecticut.

AGBF
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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Niel|1443802808|3934119 said:
I think you're rude for turning a completely different topic into a discussion you wanted dabout abortion. Start an abortion thread, don't thread jack other threads with your ideals.

The reason people consider a shooting of a PERSON different from an abortion of cells isn't confusing, if you don't understand that, that's becuase you choose not to.

Each person's believe on abortion is fine, but the difference between your opinion and mine is that yours includes forcing your opinion on others, i.e. outlawing abortions.


I'm happy to discuss gun control in this thread, but I don't plan to discuss abortion anymore.

Make a thread about it, if its a topic that interests you. :wavey:

1) I am absolutely NOT turning the discussion to abortion; I made a comparison - in response to others who stated we have a gun problem that results in the loss of innocent life - to another act that results in the loss of innocent life but gets brushed by the way side daily. My point being that it seems hypocritical to champion for innocent life in one scenario, and not another. I don't understand why that is a hard perspective to consider.

2) Abortion is not cells past a certain point; there is a heart, brain, nerves, a body - a life that deserves as much protection as one innocently walking into school to learn. To make a statement that its just cells is pushing your beliefs onto others just as you suggest I have tried to do.

3) I stated NOWHERE that abortions should be outlawed. Please do not twist my statements in an attempt to argue.

My position simply is this - if you are against guns in an attempt to protect innocent lives, then it's reasonable to assume you should also be against other means that take innocent lives. If you are not, then I deduce the position is not about protecting innocent lives, but selectively championing a cause to suit ones personal preference or perhaps what suits their lives best. If there is another reason to only be a champion for innocent lives where guns are involved, and not other "causes" such as abortion, alcohol, drugs, etc, then I would honestly love to understand (NOT argue) it.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
20,044
JoCoJenn|1443803768|3934129 said:
Niel|1443802808|3934119 said:
I think you're rude for turning a completely different topic into a discussion you wanted dabout abortion. Start an abortion thread, don't thread jack other threads with your ideals.

The reason people consider a shooting of a PERSON different from an abortion of cells isn't confusing, if you don't understand that, that's becuase you choose not to.

Each person's believe on abortion is fine, but the difference between your opinion and mine is that yours includes forcing your opinion on others, i.e. outlawing abortions.


I'm happy to discuss gun control in this thread, but I don't plan to discuss abortion anymore.

Make a thread about it, if its a topic that interests you. :wavey:

1) I am absolutely NOT turning the discussion to abortion; I made a comparison - in response to others who stated we have a gun problem that results in the loss of innocent life - to another act that results in the loss of innocent life but gets brushed by the way side daily. My point being that it seems hypocritical to champion for innocent life in one scenario, and not another. I don't understand why that is a hard perspective to consider.

2) Abortion is not cells past a certain point; there is a heart, brain, nerves, a body - a life that deserves as much protection as one innocently walking into school to learn. To make a statement that its just cells is pushing your beliefs onto others just as you suggest I have tried to do.

3) I stated NOWHERE that abortions should be outlawed. Please do not twist my statements in an attempt to argue.

My position simply is this - if you are against guns in an attempt to protect innocent lives, then it's reasonable to assume you should also be against other means that take innocent lives. If you are not, then I deduce the position is not about protecting innocent lives, but selectively championing a cause to suit ones personal preference or perhaps what suits their lives best. If there is another reason to only be a champion for innocent lives where guns are involved, and not other "causes" such as abortion, alcohol, drugs, etc, then I would honestly love to understand (NOT argue) it.

Ok then.
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,869
JoCoJenn|1443803768|3934129 said:
Niel|1443802808|3934119 said:
I think you're rude for turning a completely different topic into a discussion you wanted dabout abortion. Start an abortion thread, don't thread jack other threads with your ideals.

The reason people consider a shooting of a PERSON different from an abortion of cells isn't confusing, if you don't understand that, that's becuase you choose not to.

Each person's believe on abortion is fine, but the difference between your opinion and mine is that yours includes forcing your opinion on others, i.e. outlawing abortions.


I'm happy to discuss gun control in this thread, but I don't plan to discuss abortion anymore.

Make a thread about it, if its a topic that interests you. :wavey:

1) I am absolutely NOT turning the discussion to abortion; I made a comparison - in response to others who stated we have a gun problem that results in the loss of innocent life - to another act that results in the loss of innocent life but gets brushed by the way side daily. My point being that it seems hypocritical to champion for innocent life in one scenario, and not another. I don't understand why that is a hard perspective to consider.

2) Abortion is not cells past a certain point; there is a heart, brain, nerves, a body - a life that deserves as much protection as one innocently walking into school to learn. To make a statement that its just cells is pushing your beliefs onto others just as you suggest I have tried to do.

3) I stated NOWHERE that abortions should be outlawed. Please do not twist my statements in an attempt to argue.

My position simply is this - if you are against guns in an attempt to protect innocent lives, then it's reasonable to assume you should also be against other means that take innocent lives. If you are not, then I deduce the position is not about protecting innocent lives, but selectively championing a cause to suit ones personal preference or perhaps what suits their lives best. If there is another reason to only be a champion for innocent lives where guns are involved, and not other "causes" such as abortion, alcohol, drugs, etc, then I would honestly love to understand (NOT argue) it.

You are being intentionally obtuse. YOU brought up abortion, and YOU are the one that made this discussion what it is. A fetus is not a person. It is cells that rely on a mother to bring it to term. It cannot survive to be a human person without the mother. THAT is the difference between abortion and a school child being slaughtered at school by a guntoting mass murdered. THAT is the difference. And you brought religion into it, and then panicked and tried to backpeddle by stating your opinion was based not on religion but on "logic and reason," of which I beg to differ.

And you keep spinning in circles trying to convince us that your beliefs, again rooted in your faith (because frankly, those beliefs on abortion can truly only come from a belief in such things), are somehow logical. Not possible.
 
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