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P10431

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
22
Hello Everyone
I contacted a diamond dealer and sent her images in order to sell my diamond. That dealer kept writing me to come and pick the diamond so she could sell it. She is from another state and caught a plane to come to my house to pick up the diamond. I told her a bit of information about the stone, the weight, and the dimensions, etc. She examined and scaled it. She then confirmed everything with me (priced the stone) and we signed the contract including the original weight. She added an insurance value in the agreement. The next day, she sent an email to me stated that the carats were wrong and my diamond is over 50% heavier than the original weight that is in the contract. She sent me by email an updating form for me to sign in order to annul the first contract. This update contains no insurance value. She claimed she must send it to the GIA and if the diamond returns natural and untreated she will proceed to sell it and the insurance value will be effective. She claimed that I have to pay the GIA's fee. The fees are over 2,000USD since the stone his big. I refuse to put my signature under this new stone because that is not my diamond. She said if I don't comply she will arrange to return the stone back to me. The problem is she didn't aware that I saw her when she scaled the diamond so I told her you scaled the diamond before I entered in a contract with you and we confirmed the weight that I told you. Now she is saying that the balance she used was not a diamond scale so the weight was off. She came to check an important diamond and did not come with the right scale. I know for sure she stole my stone and I will never see it again. She said she used the proper balance when she returned back to her state and the stone weight is more than 50% than the original weight. She claimed it's my stone and the dimensions of this new stone are almost the same as the dimensions of the stone that I submitted to her. I had my diamond for a while and always has the same weight. Once I let go of my diamond the weight is now different...I'm so confused...She practically stole my diamond and replace it with a cubic zirconia. I'M SO STRESSED ABOUT THE WHOLE SITUATION.
 
Take it to a trusted appraiser and have it weighed and measured and mapped against your diamond certificate. Then once you have information you can decide what to do next. I hope the legal experts will weigh in.

I’m sorry that happened to you. You should be able to get some good advice on next steps.
 
Oh wow, I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I agree the story from the seller sounds extremely suspicious. I am sure that the experts can comment, but I am not aware of a different scale for diamonds. A scale is a scale and measures the weight of whatever is put on it.
 
Where are you in the world?

Have you called your local Police force and the Police in the state this person says she is from?
Have you called a Lawyer?

How did you come into contact with this person?

@oldminer and @denverappraiser may have advice, but it does sound like you are the victim of a crime right now.

Do you have the person's address? If so, have you verified it is correct?

Can you give us the details of your stone? (weight, colour, clarity, dimensions)
Can you upload your pictures?

The diamond world is not that large, so if it is a distinctive stone, it might be possible to do something 'behind the scenes'.
 
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I don't have much more to offer, except I'm so sorry for you.

For a $2k charge for the GIA grading, you must have a 20-30 carat diamond. That is rare and significant. I agree that you need to take whatever you have in your hands to a reputable dealer to have it appraised and confirm if it is, in fact, a diamond or CZ. You need to first have evidence that the stone in your hands is not a diamond. Then, you need to gather evidence that it is not "the" diamond that this woman had in her hands.

Good for you to not sign the new contract. Whatever she claims, the first contract will stand and you will have a case against her. She can try to convince law enforcement that she made a "weighing" mistake. Ha!

Where are you physically located? If you feel comfortable telling us the country and nearest large city, we may be able to recommend some trustworthy jewelers or appraisers.
 
I am really, really suspicious of this. The $2,000 alone sounds like a trick, which makes me worry that you will get neither your diamond nor your money and at best she will take your $2,000 and keep that.

I'm also disturbed by the statement that your diamond is "50% heavier" than when she actually weighed it. A cubic zirconia is 50% heavier than a real diamond. I am concerned that you will not get your actual stone back.

Do you have a GIA certificate for this stone? An appraisal? An inclusion plot?

At this point I would try to talk to some sort of expert in jewelery, like a respected local dealer. My first question would be whether this person is in any way qualified to sell a diamond. How did you come to contact her in the first place?
 
I think you need to get documentation first that you owned your original large stone. In the U.S., a person is not guilty nor will any charges be pressed against them without probably cause so calling the police is not going to do anything to get your diamond back. The goal now is to get your diamond back. If not, then when you have evidence, get an attorney and press charges.

The good thing is you have documentation of the original weight of your diamond. If you have other documentation or photos proving ownership, that would help. Even photos of you holding/wearing the stone. On the contract, I hope she wrote down the dimensions of the diamond? With dimensions and the carat weight, you may have a good story she is committing a fraud.

Why don't you go fly to meet her? If your stone is a 20-30 carat stone, it would be worth a lot of money (assuming other Cs are in good standing), so it would be worth a plane ticket to discuss this transaction with her face to face. I would definitely get on a plane and bring along any documentation. Tell her you want to end this transaction, you have documentation of your original stone, and you will get an attorney if this is fraud. Maybe she will not want to deal with all this and just give you your stone back. Stick with your focus of getting your diamond back. Forget about proving whether it's 20ct or 10ct to sell, no need to argue if she lied... focus on how to get the original stone back. The dimensions of the stone should help out a lot... it is rare for even two stones to be exact, down to the hundredth mm which I hope is what was measured (e.g. 18.45mm).

If the stone is 20-30 carat, she technically can not just send it back via USPS (in the U.S.) maxes out at $50K for insurance. You could use Brinks and they are very secure with handoffs (signatures along the way), but that is a lot of hassle and she probably won't want to deal with it. Best bet... fly to meet her.

I am sure you know this, but give her a way out.... use diplomacy that perhaps it was a mistake, you have photos, documentation, and maybe have her measure again, but you changed your mind and don't want to sell. When backed into a corner, people need a graceful way to bow out... otherwise, the lie continues. And in the end, all you want is your original diamond back, you don't need to prove to her or make the point she lied. Get the diamond.

Just some ideas. Good luck to you.
 
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Octo2005 said:
Oh wow, I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I agree the story from the seller sounds extremely suspicious. I am sure that the experts can comment, but I am not aware of a different scale for diamonds. A scale is a scale and measures the weight of whatever is put on it.
Click to expand...

Not true. There are different standards of measure. Gram weight for precious metals is not the same as gram weight for food. Typically a jewelers scale can be set for precious metals (dwt or grams) or carat weight for stones.

Hope you are able to resolve this.
 
I’m so sorry to hear about this situation... just chiming in to ditto everything @Miki Moto said.

I’m a little confused by your post - do you have the stone (the one that the dealer is claiming you own) in hand right now? Or is it with the dealer, and you have no stone right now?
 
rocks said:
Not true. There are different standards of measure. Gram weight for precious metals is not the same as gram weight for food. Typically a jewelers scale can be set for precious metals (dwt or grams) or carat weight for stones.

Hope you are able to resolve this.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I did not know that. I thought a gram was a universal unit of measure.

Same logic would still apply though. If she came to weigh a stone and not his lunch. How could she have the wrong scale with her
 
rocks said:
Not true. There are different standards of measure. Gram weight for precious metals is not the same as gram weight for food. Typically a jewelers scale can be set for precious metals (dwt or grams) or carat weight for stones.

Hope you are able to resolve this.
Click to expand...

Octo2005 said:
Thank you. I did not know that. I thought a gram was a universal unit of measure.

Same logic would still apply though. If she came to weigh a stone and not his lunch. How could she have the wrong scale with her
Click to expand...

To my understanding 1 gram of platinum weighs the same as 1 gram of bananas.

Carat, dwt, grains are all different units with similar constant linear conversion but a gram is a gram.
 
A gram is a gram, or by definition 1/1000 of a kilogram, the SI base unit of mass in the metric system.
 
gm89uk said:
To my understanding 1 gram of platinum weighs the same as 1 gram of bananas.

Carat, dwt, grains are all different units with similar constant linear conversion but a gram is a gram.
Click to expand...

ceg said:
A gram is a gram, or by definition 1/1000 of a kilogram, the SI base unit of mass in the metric system.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That was my original thoughts also. I believe that an error could be made in the conversion form grams to carats, but didn't understand how the scale could be wrong unless not properly calibrated. Even if that was the case to be off by 50% is setting off alarm bells.
 
Octo2005 said:
Thank you. I did not know that. I thought a gram was a universal unit of measure.

Same logic would still apply though. If she came to weigh a stone and not his lunch. How could she have the wrong scale with her
Click to expand...

No doubt that something is very shady.....
 
You definitely have a legal problem. You no longer have your diamond and you don't have the money, either. Get the Police and and seek advice from a lawyer immediately because as you delay, the ability to recover the diamond decreases. The cost of the GIA report seems outlandishly high unless you had a very large diamond. Even with a portable scale for weighing diamonds, there would only be a few hundredths of a carat error in weight, never 50% error. That's a real red flag that someone is not telling you a true story.

One might question how you had such a diamond yet knew so little about how to deal with selling it or how to protect yourself responsibly. It makes things far more suspicious than a normal story. Nevertheless we all are sorry you are having this problem. I hope you act quickly to get it in the hands of folks who know how to act properly on your behalf.
 
Thank you for the replies!

She claimed that she weighed the diamond on a scale for gold. After she arrived back in her state she weighed it on a proper scale for diamond. According to the GIA, “The modern metric carat, equal to 0.2 grams, was adopted by the United States in 1913 and other countries soon after. Today, a carat weighs exactly the same in every corner of the world.” She is an EXPERT and she knows better.

0.2 grams is equivalent to 200milligrams.= 1ct. She claimed that she allegedly used a gold scale to weigh my diamond. Even if that were the case weighing the diamond on a gold scale won't subtract weight from the diamond as it will still be measured in grams. The only difference is a diamond scale gives a more precise gram weight by weighing it up to the 5th decimal. 50% more indicates two different stones being measured.
 
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Hate to say it, but sounds fishy to me. :(sad. using a gold scale for diamonds?.:nono:
 
@P10431 What about the dimensions of the stone? Does it match your stone or did she substitute a fake stone? Surely, you guys took dimensions on this large 20-30ct stone.
 
You posted above that you bought the stone, that’s good as you must have paperwork(GIA or AGS). I am sure you showed her the paperwork to help sell the stone so it should match. And you said it is about 10cts. It should not be a guess as your paperwork should show exactly how many carats.

Ask her to measure the current stone and weigh it again. It should match your paperwork.
 
This is one of the most confusing story I read. No matter, you should fly over and try to get your stone back than debating over the weighing error. I'm sure you'll recognize your own huge stone, so go fetch the valuable and/or involve law enforcement right away if the stone end up not being yours.
 
blueMA said:
This is one of the most confusing story I read. No matter, you should fly over and try to get your stone back than debating over the weighing error. I'm sure you'll recognize your own huge stone, so go fetch the valuable and/or involve law enforcement right away if the stone end up not being yours.
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Totally agree... confusing on both sides really.

OP, you know your stone, you said you bought it yourself, it's 10cts, you know the dimensions and weight so you have the paperwork... go fly there and grab your stone.
 
I’m shocked.
No diamond dealer, heavens above, no gemstone buyer, even little old me, would make a error in carat weight by more than 15 points. Even my $20 electronic gem scale, bought off eBay, can be considered accurate to .05 of a carat.
A diamond trader would surely have a professional level scale!
A 50% error - What the !
An “error” in colour grading or clarity due to an in home consultation without a microscope and/or reference diamonds MIGHT be excusable but she is a diamond trader!
Knowing diamonds 4 Cs is her business!
And where does this $2,000 GIA fee come from? Yes, they charge by carat size and there’s shipping and insurance to pay, but $2,000 - have you got a 10 carat plus diamond? Or is she scamming you ?
I would be telling this person you want you diamond back and now. If it’s a huge diamond I’d be on the next flight to her! And I’d be telling her (and I do so hope you have photographic evidence and some type of appraisal to identify / authenticate YOUR diamond as yours) that if you don’t get your diamond back it’s theft and that’s a criminal offense so you’ll be going straight to the police.
Get your diamond back, get your own GIA certification and send your diamond to a reputable vendor ie Jonathan at Good Old Good to sell.
Don’t delay.
 
I'm confused too. Is this a legit person? Have you googled her to find out?
 
OP bought a 10ct stone w/o a GIA report? :confused:
 
This whole story makes no sense. Did the op not thoroughly vet the diamond dealer before handing over a large stone plus $2000? Any diamond "expert" should have been able to eyeball the weight better than 50% off!
 
Aren't we well past "April Fool"? :lol:. This whole story sounds too crazy to me.
nuts.gif
 
It's a TRUE story. I'm too stressed to do anything. My son is looking for a legal assistant. I'll let you know the outcome.

Thank you for the responses.
 
Hi @P10431, I'm sorry you are going through this. Are you able to shed light on the questions that have come up in this thread? They might help people give you more specific advice...I wish you the best for a good outcome. To recap:


Where are you in the world?

Have you called your local Police force and the Police in the state this person says she is from?

How did you come into contact with this person?

Do you have the person's address? If so, have you verified it is correct?

Can you give us the details of your stone? (weight, colour, clarity, dimensions)

Can you upload your pictures?

Do you have a GIA certificate for this stone? An appraisal? An inclusion plot?

Why don't you go fly to meet her?

Do you have the stone (the one that the dealer is claiming you own) in hand right now? Or is it with the dealer, and you have no stone right now?

Is this a legit person? Have you googled her to find out?
 
P10431 said:
It's a TRUE story. I'm too stressed to do anything. My son is looking for a legal assistant. I'll let you know the outcome.

Thank you for the responses.
Click to expand...

I recognize you might be too stressed to even respond to everyone's questions properly. Is it possible to get your son to respond to the questions above from other poster's? Because, as others have said, getting legal assistance is great, but the folks on here might be able to help you through their connections.

I'm sorry to hear about such a horrible situation. I do hope everything gets resolved in your favour!
 
P10431 said:
Thank you for the replies!

She claimed that she weighed the diamond on a scale for gold. After she arrived back in her state she weighed it on a proper scale for diamond. According to the GIA, “The modern metric carat, equal to 0.2 grams, was adopted by the United States in 1913 and other countries soon after. Today, a carat weighs exactly the same in every corner of the world.” She is an EXPERT and she knows better.

0.2 grams is equivalent to 200milligrams.= 1ct. She claimed that she allegedly used a gold scale to weigh my diamond. Even if that were the case weighing the diamond on a gold scale won't subtract weight from the diamond as it will still be measured in grams. The only difference is a diamond scale gives a more precise gram weight by weighing it up to the 5th decimal. 50% more indicates two different stones being measured.
Click to expand...
Even my $20 eBay electronic scale has the option to measure in grams or carats. And as you said, 200 grams equals 1 carat so it doesn’t take a Maths degree to turn a gram weight to a carat weight.
A diamond broker who can’t chose the correct parameter on their scale AND/ OR can’t divide a number by .2 to get a carat weight within 10 points or 1/10th of a carat ?
AND even if she mistook grams for carats and said your “2 gram diamond was 2 carats”, she is out by a factor of 5 times not 2 times. A 2 gram diamond is 10 carats not 4 carats - .2 goes into 1 gram 5 times.
This is saying “scam” to me. Get your diamond back ASAP.
And as for asking for another $2,000 from you - WHAT.
It’s like someone stealing your car and then phoning you up and asking you to pay for repairs after they crash it.
 
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