Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I think that unvaccinated children should simply not be allowed to go to public schools. If you want to keep your children unvaccinated keep them home.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Ugh this came up at a party last week. A friend isn't going to vaccinate her child because her Mil thinks it causes autism.

Cynical LOL. Freeloading on the system is annoying!!
An 'aquaintance' of mine had her children 'immunised' with natural vaccines.
Homeopathics!! What an 18th century idea that is! embarrassing.

Unfortunately her child nearly died of whooping cough.
She.Is.A.Dummy.
And I was annoyed that she wanted my children to play with her child.

Lara, you will LOVE this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&list=PL6F7656F8484D697C

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know. It sucks. I hated vaccinating my kids, but I felt that it was the responsible thing to do not just for my family, but for the greater good.

So why did you hate it?

Have you ever taken a child to get a shot? It's awful. I can't remember the exact number, but by the time they enter kindergarten, they will have had about 20 shots. Each one is not only physically painful, but it creates anxiety (for you and your child). There are also potential side effects for each one and thankfully, none of my children never really suffered any adverse reactions (with the exception of the typical mild fever, pain at the injection site, muscle soreness, etc.). Having said all that, I did my research (before my kids were born) and determined that vaccinating was right for our family despite the minor inconveniences. I do not believe in the choice to not vaccinate and it's frustrating when parents refuse to participate in a system that has been put in place to protect all of us.

 

[rosetta]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I completely agree momhappy. Nobody likes getting shots, I have to have the flu vaccine every year and I still don't like it. Kids who don't understand what's going on are obviously going to hate it.

I wish all vaccines were oral or intranasal!

(Coz I'm a wimp )

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I don't get how people manage to Not vaccinate their kids.

Every school my kids have ever been to demand vac records on hand on day one, or they won't let the kids in. Every year they check the records. From elementary all the way to college, officials WANT those records, signed by the pediatrician.

How are they getting away with it?

Yes, many states have religious and "philosophical objection" exemptions, and still let them in school. Infuriating. And the worst part? The parents who object the most are highly educated and well-heeled - the contingent who is used to their money insulating them from criticism and consequence. In fact, in an amazing twist, for once it's NOT a southern red state that is leading the stupid pack, it's Oregon.They have more exemptions for "philosophical reasons" than any other state. Go figure.

 

[packrat]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Ahhhh yes but see....we can't "tell" people what to do yanno...we must allow every person every freedom lest it hurt anyone's feelings or infringe on anyone's rights a'course.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

And here is a map that shows exactly just HOW much individual choices are not limited to the individual, how what those anti-vaxers perceive as their rational (although that is highly debatable) self-interest, results in a whole lot of crap for a whole lot of people who would rather not be subjected to their selfish stupidity.

It's pretty sobering. And Europe was just hammered in 2011 and 2012. Looks like somebody wised up in 2013. I wish the US would, but we have to be FREE. Just not, apparently, disease free...

http://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/#map

 

[Circe]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know it's going to be seen as hyperbole/hurting people's feelings/extremist, but I don't care. I think it's child abuse to skip vaccination, and not just of one's own child but also, as people have noted, abusive of any immuno-compromised, elderly, newborn, premature, or gestating people in the vicinity.

I also think it's a problematic extension of the way that children aren't legally seen as people, but as possessions of their parents. How many cases have there been recently where people have beaten their children half - or all the way - to death on the grounds of philosophical or religious belief? It makes me sick to my heart.

 

[ChristineRose]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I don't get how people manage to Not vaccinate their kids.

Every school my kids have ever been to demand vac records on hand on day one, or they won't let the kids in. Every year they check the records. From elementary all the way to college, officials WANT those records, signed by the pediatrician.

How are they getting away with it?

A few kids cannot be vaccinated because of allergies or other health conditions. In general all you need is a letter from a physician saying your child cannot be vaccinated. Some areas accept letters from doctors that are not MDs. Some chiropractors and naturopaths basically make a whole business out of writing those letters. There's one around here that had a signboard out front announcing his willingness to write exemption letters.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know it's going to be seen as hyperbole/hurting people's feelings/extremist, but I don't care. I think it's child abuse to skip vaccination, and not just of one's own child but also, as people have noted, abusive of any immuno-compromised, elderly, newborn, premature, or gestating people in the vicinity.

I also think it's a problematic extension of the way that children aren't legally seen as people, but as possessions of their parents. How many cases have there been recently where people have beaten their children half - or all the way - to death on the grounds of philosophical or religious belief? It makes me sick to my heart.

Heck, why stop there? ANY adult over a certain number of years away from the old vaccine days, is going to be at risk. Those suckers don't last forever, as those of us who pondered any potential leftover effects of our old smallpox vaccines know well.

I know (now) that we've supposed to have had boosters over the years, but having them is dependent upon how often one goes to a GP, and how devoted that GP is to reminding people. which In decades past was not such a big deal, herd immunity was good, and it probably really wasn't all that necessary, but now? I need to get in and get a few ASAP...

 

[Circe]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know it's going to be seen as hyperbole/hurting people's feelings/extremist, but I don't care. I think it's child abuse to skip vaccination, and not just of one's own child but also, as people have noted, abusive of any immuno-compromised, elderly, newborn, premature, or gestating people in the vicinity.

I also think it's a problematic extension of the way that children aren't legally seen as people, but as possessions of their parents. How many cases have there been recently where people have beaten their children half - or all the way - to death on the grounds of philosophical or religious belief? It makes me sick to my heart.

Heck, why stop there? ANY adult over a certain number of years away from the old vaccine days, is going to be at risk. Those suckers don't last forever, as those of us who pondered any potential leftover effects of our old smallpox vaccines know well.

I know (now) that we've supposed to have had boosters over the years, but having them is dependent upon how often one goes to a GP, and how devoted that GP is to reminding people. which In decades past was not such a big deal, herd immunity was good, and it probably really wasn't all that necessary, but now? I need to get in and get a few ASAP...

That is a good (and terrifying) point.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I completely agree momhappy. Nobody likes getting shots, I have to have the flu vaccine every year and I still don't like it. Kids who don't understand what's going on are obviously going to hate it.

I wish all vaccines were oral or intranasal!

(Coz I'm a wimp )

I'm with ya'. I get a flu shot every year too and I agree, it hurts. One of my children is absolutely terrified of vaccines. The last time they had one,it took the doctor and an extra nurse to hold my child down. My kids get the flu vaccine every year too, but I choose the mist now to avoid the shots. Vaccines are worth it though.
I think that in addition to my flu vaccine, I'm going to request a shingles vaccine this year too. I don't think that they recommend them unit about age 50 (and I'm only in my mid-40's), but I've known too many folks (in their 40's) get the shingles (and some cases have been VERY extreme). A good friend of mine got shingles on her face! It sort of makes me wonder what's going to happen in regards to shingles with the kids who have gotten the chicken pox vaccine (which is a required vaccine now). I asked my doctor friend about that just last week and he said that they have no clue what to expect because there's simply no data yet.

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know. It sucks. I hated vaccinating my kids, but I felt that it was the responsible thing to do not just for my family, but for the greater good.

So why did you hate it?

B/c it hurts. They're little and they don't understand why mom is just sitting there while they get a needle jabbed into them. Impossible to explain to a baby that it's the right thing to do. And it's impossible to explain to your 2 year old who looks at you w/such an expression of betrayal and hurt. But you do it b/c it's right and they get over it and it's fine. But it still hurts at the time.

ETA I should've said heck I didn't hate it at all, I dressed up like a clown and made balloon animals. Shots are fun! I take my kids up even when they're not due for anything and let the nurses practice. C'mon Kenny, you know better'n that.

It's not about me 'knowing better than that'.
It's about not knowing which of two possibilities caused her 'hate'.

Fear of shots is totally understandable.
Not wanting to subject your kid to that anxiety is too.

I just didn't know whether momhappy said, "I hated vaccinating my kids" because of the trauma of the injections, or because of concerns for alleged side effects.

Apparently it is the former.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Argh! Don't get me started. I want to punch people who think there is a link between measles and autism on the basis of a very poor underpowered and irresponsible so called study. Kids die of measles, some people have forgotten how deadly a disease it can be.

A big fat ditto. The vax debate is the only one that I am like a hungry dog with a bone - I can't walk away. It's a level of irrationality and blatant ignorance that I can't ignore. People are so comfortable with the blessed morbidity and mortality rates we have now, they are blocking their minds to the reality of the past: a past that could easily become the future, with a high enough prevalence of stupidity.

100% agree. With all of it.

We have seen so many more flu cases these past 4 or 5 years bc parents refuse to vaccinate their children or themselves, for that matter! I had one pt (a dad) bring is little girl in this past winter -- she tested positive for flu, as did two other family members when it was all said and done... As I was ringing him up for her $75.00 Tamiflu, he made the comment, "Thank goodness for Tamiflu! We don't do flu shots, so we've all taken our share of it... it seems like we deal with this every year now!" and I kid you not, in the same breath he said, "...ya know, this flu is a mess! My mother-in-law had to go to the hospital and almost died from it!!" Ummmm.... HELLO??!! She probably got it from your family!

It was everything I could do to keep my composure when I expressed how important vaccinations were... I don't think he even cared because they can just take Tamiflu, right??!!

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Ugh this came up at a party last week. A friend isn't going to vaccinate her child because her Mil thinks it causes autism. Friend is upset because no daycares will take her child un vaccinated. Me: "Well hope she doesn't get measels" Her: "the other kids are vaccinated so it's ok" Too many people have this attitude and there's the problem.

Here, most pediatricians won't take an unvaccinated kid either.

That's a great policy, amc, and I wish we had the same rules here... but, unfortunately, we can't turn anyone away for lack of vaccinations. And if we did, they'd just lie about it to get in...

 

[packrat]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know. It sucks. I hated vaccinating my kids, but I felt that it was the responsible thing to do not just for my family, but for the greater good.

So why did you hate it?

B/c it hurts. They're little and they don't understand why mom is just sitting there while they get a needle jabbed into them. Impossible to explain to a baby that it's the right thing to do. And it's impossible to explain to your 2 year old who looks at you w/such an expression of betrayal and hurt. But you do it b/c it's right and they get over it and it's fine. But it still hurts at the time.

ETA I should've said heck I didn't hate it at all, I dressed up like a clown and made balloon animals. Shots are fun! I take my kids up even when they're not due for anything and let the nurses practice. C'mon Kenny, you know better'n that.

It's not about me 'knowing better than that'.
It's about not knowing which of two possibilities caused her 'hate'.

Fear of shots is totally understandable.
Not wanting to subject your kid to that anxiety is too.

I just didn't know whether momhappy said, "I hated vaccinating my kids" because of the trauma of the injections, or because of concerns for alleged side effects.

Apparently it is the former.

ohhh gotcha. I didn't get that from your earlier reply.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I know. It sucks. I hated vaccinating my kids, but I felt that it was the responsible thing to do not just for my family, but for the greater good.

So why did you hate it?

B/c it hurts. They're little and they don't understand why mom is just sitting there while they get a needle jabbed into them. Impossible to explain to a baby that it's the right thing to do. And it's impossible to explain to your 2 year old who looks at you w/such an expression of betrayal and hurt. But you do it b/c it's right and they get over it and it's fine. But it still hurts at the time.

ETA I should've said heck I didn't hate it at all, I dressed up like a clown and made balloon animals. Shots are fun! I take my kids up even when they're not due for anything and let the nurses practice. C'mon Kenny, you know better'n that.

It's not about me 'knowing better than that'.
It's about not knowing which of two possibilities caused her 'hate'.

Fear of shots is totally understandable.
Not wanting to subject your kid to that anxiety is too.

I just didn't know whether momhappy said, "I hated vaccinating my kids" because of the trauma of the injections, or because of concerns for alleged side effects.

Apparently it is the former.

It was actually both - injection and the trauma associated with them and the concerns over potential side effects. Getting vaccines for the first time is scary business. They hand you an information sheet with a potential list of side effects and you sort of hold your breath wondering how your child will react/respond (if at all)? It's like the first time they get stung by a bee. Not only does the bee sting suck, but then you worry about whether or not they are allergic. One of my sister's kids has horrible reactions to vaccines. It's not enough to discontinue vaccinating her, but she has to deal with some fairly serious complications for a week or so afterwards. They put her on a one-shot-at-a-time schedule to avoid any further complications, but that just means that she has to take her in more frequently for one shot at a time.

 

[packrat]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

RE the booster thing-I worked for my Dr. for 8 years and never ONCE had anyone come in for imm. boosters, and we saw a minimum of 60 patients, closer to 80 if you counted labs, daily. And, I'd worked there for over 6 years before finding out that you even had to *get* boosters. I'd never ONCE heard any of the nurses or providers mention it, *ever*. I'd never seen anything anywhere about it. It was just a random hey we need to get everyone in the office updated on their shots...I said mom was meticulous about taking us in for them, so I've had them all. Nurse looks at me like I'm dumb..uhhh yeaaah they're not lifetime, you need them again. I said well maybe you should be telling people, I dunno, seems a smart way to let people know maybe, seeing as how I wasn't a nurse or provider, how would a layperson know?

The flu thing drives me crazy every year. "I get the shot but I still get the flu". Well maybe if more people would immunize themselves, it wouldn't go around so dang bad. ugh.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

We recently had dinner with a very well known, well respected pharmacy professor. He told us about how, just last year, he asked his final year pharmacy students how many of them believed in evolution. More than half of them did not, even though it is taught in their first year biology classes.

How on earth these people can cling to their ignorance in the face of fact is just beyond me.

I'm a pharmacist and from the South, so I imagine the percentage of people who don't believe in evolution is greater than most places... Like Trekkie, I'm always shocked when a scientific minded person or medical professional doesn't "believe" in evolution. I blame it on backward-a$$ churches and arrogance/blatant stupidity of people in general... it's not like you can't have faith AND believe in science. I mean, there was a time when it was blasphemous if you didn't agree that our planet was the center of the universe -- and you don't see religious ppl making that argument now, so why hang on to other scientific ideas? Even the Pope has changed some long held Catholic beliefs...

Since most world religions center around an all-powerful God, is it so difficult to believe that He is capable of evolution (or anything else) as well?? I'm certainly not so arrogant to believe that I know better, because that's what it says in a book written two thousand years ago. Sorry.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I think that unvaccinated children should simply not be allowed to go to public schools. If you want to keep your children unvaccinated keep them home.

Amen and amen.

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

By definition, science does not depend on "belief".

Implying so is an attempt to raise the status of stuff that does depend on belief.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I don't get how people manage to Not vaccinate their kids.

Every school my kids have ever been to demand vac records on hand on day one, or they won't let the kids in. Every year they check the records. From elementary all the way to college, officials WANT those records, signed by the pediatrician.

How are they getting away with it?

Yes, many states have religious and "philosophical objection" exemptions, and still let them in school. Infuriating. And the worst part? The parents who object the most are highly educated and well-heeled - the contingent who is used to their money insulating them from criticism and consequence. In fact, in an amazing twist, for once it's NOT a southern red state that is leading the stupid pack, it's Oregon.They have more exemptions for "philosophical reasons" than any other state. Go figure.

FINALLY!!! ...I'm from the South.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Our lives in modern times in the western world are so protected that an injection is considered trauma for a baby or child? Do YOU remember your baby vaccinations? Neither do I. Sure, we hate to see little guys crying, but it's over in minutes. If that's the worst trauma they will experience in their lives, they'd do well to grab it. Flame me as heartless, but I hate to think of the mental maiming a skinned knee will cause these protected little dears.

As for the evolution disbelief, I'm in disbelief myself that anyone can be so willfully ignorant. There's evidence all around us. The people who don't think it's real don't hesitate to acknowledge that dogs evolved from wolves, housecats from big cats, birds from dinosaurs, plants from other plants. Only humans, apparently, sprang fully-made as we are. We are still evolving, in fact -- it's not a finite process but a continuum on which we are only one point. I think that's fascinating!

--- Laurie

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

By definition, science does not depend on "belief".

Implying so is an attempt to raise the status of stuff that does depend on belief.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Science shows proof. I was only saying that it is possible to have religious beliefs and still understand/accept science.

 

[yennyfire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I don't get how people manage to Not vaccinate their kids.

Every school my kids have ever been to demand vac records on hand on day one, or they won't let the kids in. Every year they check the records. From elementary all the way to college, officials WANT those records, signed by the pediatrician.

How are they getting away with it?

Yes, many states have religious and "philosophical objection" exemptions, and still let them in school. Infuriating. And the worst part? The parents who object the most are highly educated and well-heeled - the contingent who is used to their money insulating them from criticism and consequence. In fact, in an amazing twist, for once it's NOT a southern red state that is leading the stupid pack, it's Oregon.They have more exemptions for "philosophical reasons" than any other state. Go figure.

FINALLY!!! ...I'm from the South.

Me too, msop! Can I get an "amen"??!! The bottom line is that no one should be exempt from the rules that have been created to protect the majority of society. Are the exceptions? Of course, but the vast majority of the people not getting their kids vaccinated don't fall into that category. They just think that they are above it all or that it won't happen to them. Do I like taking my kids for shots? No. Every time we go to the doctor, they ask me if they are going to get a shot. I have never lied to my kids, so I tell them the truth. It took 3 people to hold my then 8 year old down for 3 shots. It broke my heart, even though I explained that the shot would only hurt for a second and that if he got sick, it would hurt for many days....

The bottom line is that if you don't want to vaccinate your kids, you shouldn't be allowed to send them to public school, take them to public parks, etc. It's not just school that's risky...it's anywhere your unvaccinated kid might come into contact with mine...the movies, grocery store, mall, etc. Be a responsible member of society and vaccinate your kids. Period.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Our lives in modern times in the western world are so protected that an injection is considered trauma for a baby or child? Do YOU remember your baby vaccinations? Neither do I. Sure, we hate to see little guys crying, but it's over in minutes. If that's the worst trauma they will experience in their lives, they'd do well to grab it. Flame me as heartless, but I hate to think of the mental maiming a skinned knee will cause these protected little dears.

As for the evolution disbelief, I'm in disbelief myself that anyone can be so willfully ignorant. There's evidence all around us. The people who don't think it's real don't hesitate to acknowledge that dogs evolved from wolves, housecats from big cats, birds from dinosaurs, plants from other plants. Only humans, apparently, sprang fully-made as we are. We are still evolving, in fact -- it's not a finite process but a continuum on which we are only one point. I think that's fascinating!

--- Laurie

This made me giggle a little, Laurie! ...but there are so many who believe just that. I love to see the expressions on their faces when I ask about the apparent incestuous relationship between between the children of Adam & Eve. LOL

I'm still good friends with a girl from pharmacy school who didn't believe dinosaurs ever existed. Period. Ummmm, okay. I didn't even bother with the conversation... sometimes ya just have to smile and move on to another topic.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Me too, msop! Can I get an "amen"??!! The bottom line is that no one should be exempt from the rules that have been created to protect the majority of society. Are the exceptions? Of course, but the vast majority of the people not getting their kids vaccinated don't fall into that category. They just think that they are above it all or that it won't happen to them. Do I like taking my kids for shots? No. Every time we go to the doctor, they ask me if they are going to get a shot. I have never lied to my kids, so I tell them the truth. It took 3 people to hold my then 8 year old down for 3 shots. It broke my heart, even though I explained that the shot would only hurt for a second and that if he got sick, it would hurt for many days....

The bottom line is that if you don't want to vaccinate your kids, you shouldn't be allowed to send them to public school, take them to public parks, etc. It's not just school that's risky...it's anywhere your unvaccinated kid might come into contact with mine...the movies, grocery store, mall, etc. Be a responsible member of society and vaccinate your kids. Period.

"Amen!!"

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

One of the downsides of today's political correctness is, stupid is now equal to smart.

The 50% with below average IQ are now equal to the 50% with above average IQ … it follows, so are their ideas.

I'm not being flip, critical or putting down people with low-IQ.
I am putting down not being able to call a spade a spade.

This paradox is a real problem for society and the return of measles in fricking New York City, FRICKING NYC USA!, is a perfect example.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Our lives in modern times in the western world are so protected that an injection is considered trauma for a baby or child? Do YOU remember your baby vaccinations? Neither do I. Sure, we hate to see little guys crying, but it's over in minutes. If that's the worst trauma they will experience in their lives, they'd do well to grab it. Flame me as heartless, but I hate to think of the mental maiming a skinned knee will cause these protected little dears.

As for the evolution disbelief, I'm in disbelief myself that anyone can be so willfully ignorant. There's evidence all around us. The people who don't think it's real don't hesitate to acknowledge that dogs evolved from wolves, housecats from big cats, birds from dinosaurs, plants from other plants. Only humans, apparently, sprang fully-made as we are. We are still evolving, in fact -- it's not a finite process but a continuum on which we are only one point. I think that's fascinating!

--- Laurie

Oh, so, it's not supposed to bother a parent when a child cries from a painful injection??? No one said that vaccines were a major trauma, but quite frankly, I don't like to see my kids in any pain whatsoever. My kids have had surgeries and broken bones, so I am aware of different levels of trauma and/or pain, but that's not the point. I don't even like shots. Yes, they are over in seconds, and no, I don't remember my childhood vaccinations, but again, that's not the point. The point is that I would hope that most parents wouldn't like to see their child in any pain at all. Period. For what it's worth (despite the fact that I don't like taking my kids in for vaccines), I've never made a big fuss over it. I've always kept it light and stayed positive. It's not like I'm sitting there coddling them, crying, and telling them how awful it is I tell them it will be over in minutes, it doesn't hurt much, it's over in seconds, you can pick out a sticker, and move on with life. And by the way, my "poor little dears" have had much worse than skinned knees. They've each had a surgical procedure and we've also had two broken bones. I realize that it's all a part of life, but it's still sucks to see your kids in pain - no matter what the circumstances...

 

[justginger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

My BIL/SIL are extremely conservatively Christian - a very small sect of a church. Thy will not vaccinate. No matter what. There is no threat you could use against them to change their minds. They already plan to home school, so that's a non-issue, and there's talk here of taking away all government funding and/or family tax benefits from those who elect not to vax -- and they would still not do so. After the baby was born, they wanted to go to the equivalency of the state fair with us, but SIL was worried because the nurse said something about her potentially bringing Pertussis home with her, from the crowds - she very adamantly asked me for my professional opinion. So...she wants to know the likelihood of that situation, but doesn't want to hear the statistics for contracting ALL other diseases over a whole lifetime?...

We have already let my family-loving MIL know that when (if) DH and I have kids, we will sadly be restricting contact with BIL's kids. Kids slobber all over each other, and the risk that they're going to carrying around a latent, mutating bug is simply not worth it. I will also endeavour to send our kid/s to fully vaxed babysitters, daycare facilities, and schools that require them as well (proper require, not will accept a note from any naturopath in the city). It's an added challenge to be navigating unvaccinated direct family members.

I'm in the process of getting all my own vax up to date. I was likely due for my boosters 4 years ago, but just hasn't gotten around to them (I detest needles, on top of life being busy). Now with my clinical placements coming up soon, I've been in to get blood titres, plus I've already received my DTP. That one used to be murder - giant needle, intramuscularly. I'm thrilled to say that it's much, MUCH better now. The needle is no bigger than the others, they must have added a sweet adjuvant cause the fluid doesn't hurt either - I actually didn't know she had broken the skin, and it was already done! It got achy sore for 3 days afterwards, but not too bad. I'm sure I'll need another MMR, hopefully Hep B stuck, and I get my flu vax at work yearly anyway.

I'd really encourage EVERYONE to get their DTP booster. Pertussis is known in the medical community as a really poor vax - it wears off quickly (many people have low titres in 3 years). One of the researchers at my uni is working on a new one with some success, but in the meantime - especially if you have small children you like to love on - a DTP booster could potentially prevent serious illness from being passed on to kids.