taste v certification

[fender1951]

I have a dilemna that I hope some of you can assist me with. I wish to buy a modest diamond ring. I have found two that are very attractive. One has full appraisal the other does not. They are similar in size, cut and color but I only know the clarity of one - vs1. The problem is to my naked eye they look very similar as stones.
The more expensive stone is a Canadian diamond (including an inscription on the girdle seen through magnification) and has full appraisal; it is set in an 18 carot ring.
The other ring is half the price and is set in a 14 carot setting; the diamond is not inscribed on the girdle and its source is unknown.
My dilemna - do I buy the ring at half the price ($950) or the ring at double the price - when both look quite good to me ? ( I have been looking for three days and learned a great deal at this excellent site.
Both rings are with the same jeweller.Are there insurance issues to consider. I am certainly not considering any issue of investment and the cost is only one factor, although no one wants to pay more than they should - it will be a gift by the way.

 

[jaz464]

To be honest, it sounds like you do not have enough information to choose one over the other. I don't think you should consider a diamond when you do not know the clarity. How else do you know what you should be paying? Also, who did the appraisal? Was it someone the jeweler knew or was affiliated with?

 

[SeaOats]

I would want to know why one diamond is half the price of the other. There has to be a reason. The jeweler just wouldn''t sell the same stone with similar specs for half the price. And it isn''t hard to get an independent appraisal or a grading report done on the stone. Obviously, there is a reason why one stone does not have an "appraisal" and the other does. And when you say appraisal, who did it? Does it have a grading report, i.e. GIA, AGS, EGL USA??

Also, I wouldn''t buy anything without at the VERY minimum knowing the clarity of both!

Something sounds fishy here to me....

 

[fender1951]

Thanks Jasmine. The appraisal was independant and GIA. To my eye the stones look very similar and are both beautiful; but the Canadian diamond has the inscription and certainty of appraisal. Under magnification it is more clear, but not significantly. The problem is I have to buy this ring by Sunday- 2 days from now! Help! I am most concerned not give a gift that ultimately has the recipient having to answer questions from others socially in the future about the stone that she knows nothing about.

 

[jaz464]

The appraisal was done by GIA? Or the stone was certified by them. GIA certs are not considered appraisals.

 

[SeaOats]

Date: 11/11/2005 11:19:50 PM
Author: jazmine
The appraisal was done by GIA? Or the stone was certified by them. GIA certs are not considered appraisals.

It is best to say GIA report because they are not actually certifying that the stone is a F VS1, etc. Grading is an opinion only.

And yes, do you mean a GIA report or an appraisal done by a person with a GIA credential?

 

[fender1951]

I did not examin the document closely , but I assume it to be merely that the examiner was certified by GIA. I was not alarmed at the notion that a ring under a thousand dollars would not have a full documentation. This is being sold at reputable mall jewellry store. Thanks for your thoughts so far. I hope to buy tomorrow so I do appreciate your interest.

 

[Kaleigh]

Don''t assume anything, that''s where you get into trouble. Seems like you are rushing into buying this ring and that is never a good thing. Seriously. If you were on a dead line ya should have done your homework a while ago. The last thing I want to hear from you is ok I bought such and such ring, was under the gun and now I''m not happy with it. Honestly we get that a lot. So take your time tomorrow and choose wisely. Best of luck to you, I hope it turns out well for you.

 

[fender1951]

Thanks Kaleigh, but that unfortunately begs the question for me - which in the opinion of the board is the wise desicion. Remember that for me the two stones look the same and therein lies the dilemna!

 

[Kaleigh]

Ok, but I''m still not sure whether the one stone has a GIA report or was just an appraisal?? And the other stone has no documentation?? I see a red flag with one stone, there has to be a reason why it doesn''t have proper documentation. I mean seriously, I''m not trying to give you a hard time. But logic is logic, right????

 

[plg_cp]

fender,
With the very limited information being presented here, I don''t think anyone''s opinion would really be of much value to you. Your situation seems to be that you are looking at two rings, one with no documentation at all and the other with simply a statement of opinion on color and clarity by a GIA graduate.

The folks on this forum are accustomed to considering far more detailed information when purchasing a diamond. It''s as if you''re asking advise on buying one of two cars: for car 1 a mechanic has said that it''s blue and has a V6 engine. For car 2 all you know is that it''s a car. Now you ask us which to buy...could anyone give you a useful opinion on this? I don''t think so.

With all due respect I don''t think you can make an educated buying decision within your timeframe and given the information you have. However, you have said that both are "very attractive" so perhaps you should make you decision strictly based on what you see?

Sorry I''m not of more help, good luck.
Mark

 

[Kaleigh]

Thank you Mark, very well articulated. Thanks!!!

 

[fender1951]

Thank you all; I will review the appraisal tomorrow and consider if it is to my limited understanding sufficient and then make a decision. Thanks again. Any further thoughts would be welcomed.

 

[fender1951]

On rereading the posts I believe my inexperince in this field has led me to describe the documentation insufficiently, It provided full dimensions of the stone, plus the 4c''s and appraisal re value. I hope this clarifies matters.

 

[valeria101]

Why would you pay twice for identical stuff?

I doubt it is the case that something you can''t see actually makes the whole difference - all there is about diamonds is how they look, in the end. Once you are out of the shop, the price would make little difference to anything but your bank account.

These being said, taste is a great guide but not when it comes to pricing. That is why grades are for. ''Canada Mark'' is not just a way to provide proper grading - that''s a brand and it sells some invisible services along with the stone. If you care for that and feel strongly that their claim of origin and nicely printed paperwork is as valuable as the merchandise itself, than why not.

I have not seen the rings, so this is just ''philosophy''.

Just wondering: how does either price compare with those quoted around here? I''d expect the brand to me quite a bit more expensive and the non-certified price to match some lower grades than you''d expect... Have you tried the database?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/12/2005 3:39:12 AM
Author: fender1951
On rereading the posts I believe my inexperience in this field has led me to describe the documentation insufficiently

No... you said the important part - that this is some paper provided by the seller not an independent third party: there is no relation between a lab report (say, GIA) and one provided by a GIA graduate employee in a shop. GIA does not certificate these people and does not have anything to do with the reports they write.

I could also give you a full report with all statistics in the world about that diamond without even seeing it.

All in all, I think you are perfectly right to choose whichever ring looks good to you. Lab report or no lab report, in the end that is what matters. Perhaps the in-store grading is not quite dead on, but if the potential price difference is not important or there is no other product that would work better for you... does it still matter?



Anyway... any chance you could tell what these rings are?

Based on the price, I am guessing half carat in a classic setting, but by now you surely made me curious!

 

[fender1951]

Thank you for the additional perspectives. So it it clear the "certification", the report and appraisal is a single document and is not prepared by the store but presumably the diamond supplier in Canada. It is an official looking document, laminated in plastic with embedded hologram for authenticity. It clear the store has not procuced the document. Yes the documented stone''s price is consistent with prices on this site and is at the low end of a search of available stones.
This is for the uninitiated a fascinating if unfortunately fast education in something I have never considered. I had no idea the purchase of a stone was so complex. The amount at stake is not that great and at the end of the day I may be guided by all the additional selling features of the appraised stone. It has certinaly been a quick education in an arcane field and I understand your fascination with the subject. Ultimately I want to just get the best stone at the best price, but that I am sure is all everyone seeks. Oh the joy of life''s uncertainties! Thanks again for your help in this shopping and giving mystery.

 

[SeaOats]

Fender, if they both have the same sparkle, etc. to your eyes and you can''t see any eye visible inclusions in either, then I would go with the cheaper one. No reason to pay for something that you can''t see, and as long as you don''t mind not having a grading report...

Please let us know what you decide and don''t forget to post pics!

 

[portoar]

Canadian diamond -- reputable mall jeweler -- are you looking at rings from Ben Bridge? I was just in there comparing their Ikuma (Canadian) diamonds to their Signature and non-certed stones. Both the Signature and Ikuma diamonds are very beautiful -- the Signature has extra facets which I did not like -- but the non-certed stones were definitely not in the same league as the Canadian (Ikuma) or the Signature.

If you have to buy by Sunday and you are looking at these rings from Ben Bridge, I would go with the Canadian diamond. From what I understand, they are all at least Ideal cut. However, they told me all the Canadian diamonds were AGS certed, and the Signature are either AGS or GIA.

 

[Lynn B]

Hmmm... I well realize the importance and value of a cert, and I would probably never buy a large diamond (i.e., MAJOR investment) without one. But I am not fender and he isn't talking about thousands and thousands of dollars. It doesn't sound like he has a strong preference re: whether or not the stone has a cert, he just wants to get a lovely diamond at a decent price -- now.

I really like what Ana said... in the end it only boils down to one thing -- how a diamond looks. If he has observed both stones in various lighting situations and the uncerted stone is as beautiful to him as the certed one, then maybe that's a choice he should feel comfortable making? There are a LOT of people out there wearing (uncerted) stones they adore, without a clue of the color and clarity. And many of them are living quite contented, satisfied lives!

PS Of course he could always choose the uncerted one, having the final sale hinge on the opinions of an independent appraiser. That would still save him a bundle of $$$. Just my humble 2 cents!

 

[fender1951]

Thanks everyone. Just to let you know I bought the more expensive ring. I figured in the 14 v 18 ct gold, the certainty of more expensive ring and the fact that the purchase is infrequent. If it was a mistake I''ll never know and it will in any event make someone very happy. Besides if they really want to get into it; they can come here and explore endlessly. Good luck All and Thanks Again