Tantrums***need advice***

[Bella_mezzo]

DS is 3 3/4 and joined our family through adoption last summer, so I know that our situation is a little unique and we are very mindful of attachment/bonding/therapeutic parenting challenges/techniques so we are approaching this through those lenses, but I am hoping that my lovely PS peeps can provide some advice! As cute as PS babies are, they can not be all sweetness all the time

With increasing frequency and intensity, DS throws major screaming tantrums when he is told "no" or is not allowed to do something he wants. He doesn't hit, bite, or kick (thank goodness!), but he thrashes around, does the limp noodle, and mostly just screams very, very very loudly. We are in general very firm/consistent parents and try to head-off tantrums by choosing our battles, making sure that he's not hungry/overly tired, etc. and trying to ease transitions for him, but when they do occur, to-date our discipline for tantrums has mostly consisted of "time-ins" (like a time out but you hold your child or sit next to them), talking about how we can't do something fun when he is screaming, and distracting/redirecting.

What do you do when your child is throwing a tantrum?

Do you tell them to stop...ignore it...join in in an effort to show them how ridiculous it is...distract them...bribe them...pour cold water on them (no joke, I read this online this morning...not sure how I feel about it--this morning it sounded brilliant )...or something else? We are avoiding physical punishment and "time outs" are currently off the table for adoption-related reasons.

I need some new strategies. This morning nothing worked--B was a mess, DH became completely frustrated (any tips on how to help your DH handle tantrums better are welcome as well as he doesn't have much patience in this department and B's screaming really sets him on edge), and I was very late to work.

 

[tammy77]

First off, big hugs!!! It's a rough time for any child/parent and I'm sure the emotional issues from the adoption stuff make it even more challenging.

It sounds like you're doing the right things. You're a little limited because you can't do time outs, but what worked for us is NOT reacting and NOT giving in over the course of countless meltdowns. Do make sure that he's safe (floundering on the floor is fine, on the bed isn't - those logistical precautions to let him get it out safely). Also, do make sure that he know you love him no matter what and you're right there for him. Once he realizes that you won't react, he won't get what he want and basically the tantrums are a waste of his time/energy, the battle will be (mostly) over.

Once he eventually calms down, give him praise, shower him with hugs and kisses, and something positive - as long as it isn't what he threw the tantrum over. There's more, but I have to run. Sorry!

Quick ETA: This is the strategy we used for the 3-4.5 yr old range. Once my youngest DD (the one that had the most meltdowns) was 5-6 we used these plus having a reasonable conversation with her right after to explain that it was not okay, and she lost privileges. The way it worked was for every minute of her meltdown, she lost 3 minutes of play time and had to sit quietly by herself (meaning in the same room as us, but not allowed to play with toys/her sister or have any entertainment). It moved up to a 1:5 ratio when she hit 6 and thankfully the tantrums FINALLY stopped completely by that point.

 

[KimberlyH]

Given the special circumstances I would respond by making the space he is in as quiet as possible, perhaps even dimming lights to create a calm environment, I would stop what I was doing and sit down quietly near but not with him and let him ride it out. I would save all talking and affection until he calmed down. One, because tantrums aren't a time when children are capable of being logical and two, being held may feel like being restrained and only exacerbate the situation. In not trying to fix it that time may allow your husband to center himself a bit as well.

 

[KimberlyH]

Double post and ETA: over time I would move away from being still with him and start gOing about my business, but for now I would start off with the above.

 

[NovemberBride]

Bella,

Can you explain a little about why you are unwilling to try time-outs? I am not familiar with adoption issues personally, but I am not sure why they would take time-out off the table? If you are concerned about him feeling abandoned, for our time-out DD sits on the stairs and we usually stand nearby, we don't shut her in her room alone or anything like that. We also don't believe in physical punishment at all, but IMHO time-outs are extremely effective and not at all akin to physical punishment. Since what you are trying is not working, I thought I'd throw this out there as an option you may want to reconsider.

We have been using the theories from the book 1-2-3 magic for discipline and they are great. Essentially, we count to 3 and if she hasn't stopped the behavior she gets a time-out for two minutes (since she is two). We are at the point where she almost always stops before we get to three because she doesn't want to go to time-out. I will also add that having this one method that we know works for the most part has also helped us deal with her tantrums. Before implementing, I would sometimes find myself yelling at DD and becoming agitated and frustrated and I did not like that feeling at all. The author stresses that the parents must remain calm and in control, which has really helped both DH and I feel like we are being better parents.

You may have valid reasons for not using time-out due to your specific circumstances, but I thought I'd share what works for us in case you want to explore that option at some point.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Thanks Nov-I am going to check out 123 Magic and see if it might work for us soon.

The reason that timeouts can be ineffective and sometimes detrimental with adoptive children/families (especially during the first few years home and especially if there are some attachment issues--both of which are true for our family) is that if children are not securely attached to their parents they don't mind and/or like being separated from their parents. It is a way of pushing parents away and isolating themselves. Also, it can be a big issue if you are trying to teach a child who has been neglected/not responded to when they cry, that you will always come/respond to put them in a time out where they are separated from you and/or you are totally ignoring them. All that to say, discipline with a still rather newly adopted toddler/preschooler can be tricky.

In addition to those issues and some remaining fall-out from grief/trauma/loss in their young lives, adoptive kids (like many kids, but to a more extreme degree) are usually several different developmental ages. For instance, our son will be 4 at the end of October, but his family age is 12 months, his verbal/language skills are about 2.5, and his physical developmental skills are 3ish.

Time ins sound a lot like what you do, either holding the child or sitting near/beside them and having firm, quiet, and as minimal as possible interaction with the child.

 

[mia1181]

Given the special circumstances I would respond by making the space he is in as quiet as possible, perhaps even dimming lights to create a calm environment, I would stop what I was doing and sit down quietly near but not with him and let him ride it out. I would save all talking and affection until he calmed down. One, because tantrums aren't a time when children are capable of being logical and two, being held may feel like being restrained and only exacerbate the situation. In not trying to fix it that time may allow your husband to center himself a bit as well.

This girl is absolutely right! Hi KimberlyH!

I'm a behavior analyst and I can give you some quick pointers on tantrums.

We are in general very firm/consistent parents and try to head-off tantrums by choosing our battles, making sure that he's not hungry/overly tired, etc. and trying to ease transitions for him

These are awesome strategies! Since tantrums at that age are somewhat age appropriate, mostly, you want to avoid them where possible.

Do you tell them to stop...ignore it...join in in an effort to show them how ridiculous it is...distract them...bribe them...pour cold water on them (no joke, I read this online this morning...not sure how I feel about it--this morning it sounded brilliant )...or something else? We are avoiding physical punishment and "time outs" are currently off the table for adoption-related reasons.

These strategies (that I underlined) are more likely to increase the behavior.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Figure out what is causing the tantrum. It sounds like he wants access to an item or activity. Next, he might also enjoy getting attention for it (kids like attention even if it's not nice attention). Lastly, he might not know how to calm himself down once he is really riled up.

2. So if he wants something and has a tantrum for it, make sure you never give in or he will remember for next time. Then as Kimberly explained you are going to want to give him space to calm down but you are going to avoid giving him any attention. This includes explaining to him what he did wrong, etc. If you are making direct eye contact with him or talking that is attention and you want to avoid that. You can deliver one simple rule or statement such as "Oh man it looks like you are really upset. We are just going sit here and wait for you to calm down. Then do as Kimberly said and stay near him until he calms.

3. You need to make sure that he has appropriate ways to get the things that he might be tantrumming for. So why is he upset that he isn't getting something? Is it because things are given to him all the time? If that is the case maybe he can start earning items for good behavior. That way he feels more in control of getting things that he wants. If he needs attention you have to make sure he is getting enough for appropriate behavior throughout the day. Most parents are sure they give their kids enough attention but when I observe in homes I usually see a parent that uses all the times their kid is playing nicely to get housework done (naturally) but then they come running the moment the kid gets into trouble. This teaches kids "when I am good my parents leave me alone, when I get into trouble they come back." Lastly, he may need to be taught how to calm down. Kimberly's strategies above are perfect! You can teach him things like deep breaths or to go and lay on his bed. Simply saying "oh we need to calm down now" is a great first step to helping a child identify when they are not calm and then make sure to follow up with "Wow it's so great how nice and calm you are now!" to show them how they should be feeling.

 

[mia1181]

Oh and if you want to teach him to calm down, do that during practice sessions when he is already calm. Make it a fun game!

 

[KimberlyH]

Hi Mia, I'm a bit rusty as I haven't worked in a while, so glad you chimed in! This makes me miss work! I hope you are well.

Sorry for the hijack, Bella. Tantrums are hard. Sometimes when Jane throws one I want to join in.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Wow, some great advice from KimberlyH and Mia! Do you ladies make house calls? Can you come to DC??

Bella, no real words of advice from me re: tantrums. My son is still hitting and biting- just this morning, he was mad at me so in order to get back at me, he walked into his sister's room while she was waking up and hit her hard on her back. Oy. That earned him an immediate timeout.

I did want to say that for us, the 3s were a really difficult age for our daughter, much worse than the 2s. I know your situation is unique b/c B is a recent member of your family and you have some accommodations to make around that circumstance, but if it makes you feel better, almost all of my friends have confirmed that their kids' 3s were hard. Now that DD is 4, she seems to have calmed down a lot and is much more mature already (of course, she has her moments every now and then).

About your DH and his reactions to tantrums- my DH also has little tolerance for such shannigans. It's really hard, as sometimes I feel like I'm managing a real 2 year old's tantrum, plus a 38 year old man's internal 2 year old reaction as well. Fortunately, I really have to be provoked to lose my temper, so sometimes I'll tell my DH to just back off and let me handle it. There have definitely been times when both kids are having meltdowns in the AM and I end up having to be an hour or more late to work b/c DH simply can't getting two tantruming kids ready for school, much less herding them into the car to get them there. To his credit, DH knows patience isn't his forte and has gotten a lot better about not losing it. He has to remind himself that they're just 2 and 4.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If Hunter throws a tantrum -- which can involve throwing himself on the floor and screaming and kicking -- I leave him where he is and let him have his moment, when he calms, we resume whatever we were doing as if it did not happen. The key is not to get emotional, not to engage in discussion or arguments which will fuel the fire, stay calm and wait it out. And above all else, do NOT give them whatever they were upset about.

Sometimes when he is having a really hard time calming down I will stay near him and I will try and name his feelings. For example, I will say, "Hunter is mad. He is mad that Daddy took his toy away. It's frustrating when that happens."

Or, sometimes he will tantrum when he misses one of us who is not present, he will melt down at bed because he wanted milk or another story. I'll say, "Are you sad because you miss Daddy? Yeah, Daddy wants to be here with you, he misses you too." Sometimes voicing the emotion will help calm him down. But I don't speak much, I just use a calm quiet soothing voice, and only when he is done with the screaming and is just in the sobbing and trying to calm down phase.

 

[Dreamer_D]

OK two more things.

Time outs are not good for tantrums in my experience. We use them only for aggression.

As for husband's, I give my DH a time out when he loses the plot I just send him to another room. We all have our skills and DH gets very worked up when Hunter is being difficult. So he sometimes needs a time away too.

We did read the 1-2-3 Magic book -- wekk one chapter -- and "No emotion, no talking" really is a rule we try to adopt during moments like that. Neutral calm emotional tone, and no talking, seems to help a lot in those moments. We also talk a lot at OTHER times about where the negative reactions to Hunter's actions came from (his childhood_) and how he felt when HE was treated the way HE is treating Hunter. So we try and have a plan and a mindful approach to our kids when we can. It helps. And then we forgive ourselves when we screw up. Daily.

 

[KimberlyH]

Logan, I did make house calls and hope to again some day. and believe Mia does too, but we are on the left coast.

We don't use time outs for tantrums, but I will remove Jane from the room if she is totally of of whack. I put her in her room and tell her she can come out when she is calm and then walk away, so that she can regulate herself. And depending on the circumstance I will silently hand her her favorite stuffed cat that she sleeps with as a source of cOmfort. This works fantastically with her, most of the time, it wouldn't with all kids.

Behavior modification is such a puzzle to be pieced together, except the parts are often changing so we have to adjust. I hunk something that helps is to remember tantrums are normal, even though they can be extremely frustrating. And when a kid is doing typical developmental stuff that is a great sign your kiddo is headed in the right direction.

 

[KimberlyH]

Logan, I did make house calls and hope to again some day. and believe Mia does too, but we are on the left coast.

We don't use time outs for tantrums, but I will remove Jane from the room if she is totally of of whack. I put her in her room and tell her she can come out when she is calm and then walk away, so that she can regulate herself. And depending on the circumstance I will silently hand her her favorite stuffed cat that she sleeps with as a source of cOmfort. This works fantastically with her, most of the time, it wouldn't with all kids.

Behavior modification is such a puzzle to be pieced together, except the parts are often changing so we have to adjust. I hunk something that helps is to remember tantrums are normal, even though they can be extremely frustrating. And when a kid is doing typical developmental stuff that is a great sign your kiddo is headed in the right direction.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Thanks so much ladies!!!! A lot of this supports what we already do which is great, so we'll keep doing what we're doing and augment with some of the things we don't do as much. It's nice to know that B is "on track" developmentally in the tantrum department and it's also really nice to know that other DH's don't always have the best reactions!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

When she was your son's age I found the best strategy was to ignore her. It is hard to have a tantrum without an audience. Now that she is older (4.5) and the tantrums can get crazy, I give her timeouts. I think timeouts are a great anger management skill and actually teach my adult clients to give themselves some space before their anger reaches a certain levels. I believe it gives her time to think about what is going on. I read "1,2,3 Magic" and use some of their techniques. Also, I remind my kid to breathe. That usually can calm her down. Also something I do (and it really all depends WHY she is having a tantrum) is really validate her feelings. I just mirror what she us upset about and it works amazingly well b/c she feels heard. Even if I don't give in. She is a drama queen and will totally overreact and say things like, "you don't love me anymore! I am a bad girl! You think I am a baby!" and I have to constantly remind her that I will always love her, No one is bad, we just make bad choices sometimes, life is not fair, that she has the choice to change her behavior/attitude, etc.