Tacky question

[ckrickett]

I myself am not wealthy but my DH and his family are pretty wealthy. All the money is in the stocks though and since those have been hit pretty hard the past year or so we have had to tighten our belts.

We all live pretty frugally even at the best of times when the market is up, but I do manage to scrape money for fun jewelry projects!

 

[momhappy]

This thread has been very interesting to read. Having been a member here for awhile and much more of a reader of posts than one who posts, I have learned quite a bit from the posts made by the members here. Little details shared over time give insight as to the lives enjoyed by many here. What is fascinating to me is the obvious reluctance to be labeled as wealthy. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so. It is not a statement of character, it is simply a statement of monetary resources. From what I have read here, many more are wealthy than are willing to admit to it.

We all know that without your health and family, nothing else matters. However, there are plenty of poor or middle class people who don't have their health or family. I'm sure those people would still prefer to be unhealthy and without family but have the comfort and stability gained thru money.

There is no single indicator of wealth. Plenty of people mindlessly blow what resources they have on things that they shouldn't and end up with nothing to show for it. Perhaps they could have saved and worked to a position of wealth but didn't. I know many who live well above their means via credit. They dress in designer clothes and have fancy baubles but they live paycheck to paycheck. Their fancy baubles do not make them wealthy.

There are assets that are an indicator of wealth. If you own a home other than the one you reside in full time, that is very likely an indicator of wealth. That is a huge asset. I don't know of a single poor person who owns an extra house. If you are fortunate enough to pay for someone to take care of your property, cleaning your house or taking care of your landscaping, you are very likely to be wealthy. When one can pay for all those extras that make life pleasant and fun, you are significantly much more wealthy than the countless people struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on their table. That is just reality.

I volunteer at a food pantry regularly. I leave there knowing without any doubt that I am wealthy. I do not have a big diamond the likes of which we see here regularly. We "own" one home, or at least we will when we get it paid off in 20+ years, but it is comfortable and more than we need. We are fortunate to live in a low cost of living area so our single income provides for us comfortably. Our sons attend private school but it is pretty inexpensive ($3000-ish) here. They do not have fully funded college funds but we have saved a little for them. I think we have $22,000 total set aside for education. We have two sons and our oldest will be a high school freshman next year so that amount is not even close to what it should be. We expect them to have some "skin in the game" and work for their own success and would we require that regardless of our ability or inability to fully fund their higher education endeavors. We "own" one vehicle but will be paying for that for another 3 years, I believe. My husband drives a company car. We don't take expensive vacations. We drive to see family and stay in their homes and that is our typical vacation.

Most here would not consider me to be wealthy but most of the general population of the world would definitely consider me to be wealthy. I spend a considerable amount of time seeing how those who are less fortunate struggle every day. I have some savings, less than is recommended but I have some. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. I know I am wealthy. I am happy to get to live with that label. I am so thankful to have the resources to enjoy the blessings of stability and comfort. Too many will never get to just relax, exhale, and know that everything really will be okay.

Personally, it's not about a reluctance to label myself as anything (wealthy, poor, middle class, etc.) - it's about not wanting to over-share on a public forum. I don't discuss my finances freely with anyone (except my DH) and I wouldn't be any more comfortable sharing it here.
I wonder if some of what seems like reluctance, might just be people wanting to be private about sensitive information?

.

 

[Polished]

Well I'll just say in general terms I inherited money when I was in my 30s (I would have preferred not to have!). We used the money to move house. A few years on my DH won a quite substantial sum in a quiz tv show (someone has to win on those shows). We used the money to extend the house and invested the rest ( a few dodgy investments but we've learned from them and overall not too bad). Just recently 20 years on from the first inheritance we've inherited again (DH's parents lived to a great old age). I guess this time we'll just save it for the future. Somehow there's less of an impulse to "do" something with the money as when we were younger - although an overseas trip is being talked about. I'd have to say that inspite of these considerable cash injections we would have been right without them. We would have made different choices - not moved house, not done an elaborate extension. We still would have had our three children and given them mostly beach holidays. We'd already travelled extensively before having children and buying a house so apart from a few smaller trips within Australia we probably wouldn't have done this differently. We've loved our house and the area where we live but would life have been substantially different if we didn't have it and had stayed in the first home we bought? I tend to think it would have been much the same.

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm wealthy. I zoom in on rich men like a heat-seeking missile, marry and divorce voraciously, and spend the rest of my life buying bling and posting it on PS.

Nah, just kidding.

 

[Laila619]

Personally, I think anyone making $80,000 or more a year is pretty wealthy. If I had to define it, that is what I would say. Obviously, it's just my opinion and YMMV. Some perspective is needed. It might not "seem" like a lot to some, but if you make $80,000 in a year, you're making more than the vast majority of people in the world (aside from the Bill Gates and Donald Trumps of the world obviously).

 

[december-fire]

I'm wealthy. I zoom in on rich men like a heat-seeking missile, marry and divorce voraciously, and spend the rest of my life buying bling and posting it on PS.

Nah, just kidding.

Always the one you least suspect.

 

[rubybeth]

Personally, I think anyone making $80,000 or more a year is pretty wealthy. If I had to define it, that is what I would say. Obviously, it's just my opinion and YMMV. Some perspective is needed. It might not "seem" like a lot to some, but if you make $80,000 in a year, you're making more than the vast majority of people in the world (aside from the Bill Gates and Donald Trumps of the world obviously).

Technically, according to that Pew calculator I posted earlier (here's the link in case anyone missed it: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/09/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/), $80,000 is pretty solidly middle class for two people, but I agree that would be comfortable in my area of the US (midwest). I ran the numbers for two people, and anywhere between $35,000 to $102,000 annually is "middle class" and as soon as you hit $103,000/year, it's "upper." If you have kids, it takes more money to be in the "upper" tier. I think $35,000 would be quite low for two people to be considered middle class, because in my area that would just cover the most basic necessities, but if you lived very simply, it could work.

I think the thing we aren't talking about here is the difference between income and net worth. Your income can be higher than average, at the upper end of that middle class definition or even higher, but if you have a lot of responsibilities (debts, children, big mortgage, high cost of living area), then it will feel like less money. If you make less but have fewer responsibilities (no debt, a house with no mortgage or low rent, children who are grown or no children), and have more of your income free to save or do fun things, then you probably feel more rich.

I've personally been on both sides of that--when DH and I got married, I was still in grad school and we were not earning a lot (the very low end of middle class) and our net worth was negative due to student loan debt. But we continued to live like students (in some ways, still do) with very little lifestyle inflation, even after we got relatively good jobs, and we paid off the debt as quickly as we could. I realize how lucky we have been in many ways. Right now, DH is in grad school himself, but we are paying for it without loans and the net worth is no longer negative as we approach our mid-30s. We are now planning/saving for retirement, which we hope will come much earlier than the typical 65.

 

[chrono]

I think the thing we aren't talking about here is the difference between income and net worth. Your income can be higher than average, at the upper end of that middle class definition or even higher, but if you have a lot of responsibilities (debts, children, big mortgage, high cost of living area), then it will feel like less money. If you make less but have fewer responsibilities (no debt, a house with no mortgage or low rent, children who are grown or no children), and have more of your income free to save or do fun things, then you probably feel more rich.

I agree with the above. I am also uncomfortable with answering the question due to privacy issues.

 

[sarahb]

I think the thing we aren't talking about here is the difference between income and net worth. Your income can be higher than average, at the upper end of that middle class definition or even higher, but if you have a lot of responsibilities (debts, children, big mortgage, high cost of living area), then it will feel like less money. If you make less but have fewer responsibilities (no debt, a house with no mortgage or low rent, children who are grown or no children), and have more of your income free to save or do fun things, then you probably feel more rich.

I agree with the above. I am also uncomfortable with answering the question due to privacy issues.

Ditto here for privacy issues.

But the net worth vs income issue IMHO is where the rubber meets the road.

In our 30's & 40's as incomes grew, it was really interesting to see how different couples handled it. Many grew their expenses right along with their rising incomes. Liabilities grew as assets grew. Someone who 'looks' wealthy (i.e. sporting the 2ct diamond) may not necessarily 'be' wealthy. Net worth defines wealth IMHO.

 

[ragiff]

Honestly, where your living has huge impact. For example 80,000k yr for family in Northeast US (where I'm from) is NOT middle class by no means. Many houses in good middle class suburb neighborhoods will start at 500k for small home (based on my experience bc I've been looking around). I won't even comment on how much city living is.

I would say 80,000k yr in many other US locations would make you feel rich though.


BTW, if your looking for answers to your questions in finance i'd look here: https://bogleheads.org/

Many unbiased people post there, numerous professionals in the industry, you will learn a ton (very similar to this site )

 

[purplesparklies]

I absolutely do understand the desire to maintain privacy. That is why I do not post beyond generalities and I don't recall anyone asking for specifics. Personally, I see no harm in speaking in generalities but perhaps that is because I also am secure in knowing I am not a "big fish" by any means.

It does seem that the reluctance to share is limited to this thread for some. Having read many posts, even as an uninterested party, I can recall details that have been shared previously. Also, as noted above, "wealthy" is a very broad category. After all, the Pew calculator referenced above puts a $103,000/yr. dual income couple in the "upper" category. I would think most who are at that income and who live in a high cost of living area would disagree. We have already established that it is all relative and location has a huge impact on how one lives on a wage. We all know there is wealthy and there is WEALTHY.

One who wishes to maintain privacy could simply refrain from participating. The disconnect for people may be a result of having seen details shared before by members who now seem to want to distance themselves from their realities. I would venture to say that those who have been around awhile could hazard a pretty good guess about the more frequent posters based on prior conversations and photos about jewelry, art, hobby, car, home, vacation, etc.

 

[yssie]

What I've learnt from this thread is that I need to go bar-hopping with Jamba

 

[purplesparklies]

What I've learnt from this thread is that I need to go bar-hopping with Jamba

Snort! Me too!

 

[ksinger]

I absolutely do understand the desire to maintain privacy. That is why I do not post beyond generalities and I don't recall anyone asking for specifics. Personally, I see no harm in speaking in generalities but perhaps that is because I also am secure in knowing I am not a "big fish" by any means.

It does seem that the reluctance to share is limited to this thread for some. Having read many posts, even as an uninterested party, I can recall details that have been shared previously. Also, as noted above, "wealthy" is a very broad category. After all, the Pew calculator referenced above puts a $103,000/yr. dual income couple in the "upper" category. I would think most who are at that income and who live in a high cost of living area would disagree. We have already established that it is all relative and location has a huge impact on how one lives on a wage. We all know there is wealthy and there is WEALTHY.

One who wishes to maintain privacy could simply refrain from participating. The disconnect for people may be a result of having seen details shared before by members who now seem to want to distance themselves from their realities. I would venture to say that those who have been around awhile could hazard a pretty good guess about the more frequent posters based on prior conversations and photos about jewelry, art, hobby, car, home, vacation, etc.

Dangit girl! You beat me to it again! Grrr.

Here's what I had typed and ready to go before YOU stole my thunder:

Please everyone, note that the original question did in no way ask for posters to divulge their income or net worth. And my posting of the census data with breakdowns of net worth in the US, anything but an attempt to get the discussion onto something resembling a more solid ground than wealth is a measure that is fluid and dependent upon the subjective experience of individuals. No, it is not. Granted, wealth can be measured with different yardsticks, just ask any economist, but "I'm not wealthy because how I FEEL" ain't one of them.

I would never tell how much I have or earn or how I came by those things - in fact, I'm pretty sure I've not revealed (over the years) FAR more than I have, and far less than most. I had little problem telling that I fall into a quintile, mostly because I assume that most here don't remember/know or care exactly how old I am, and those that are going to try and ferret out info about me, are not going to be using Pricescope to do it. Those people are hacking the OPM. Or with the NSA.

 

[chrono]

I value my privacy to the extent that I do not post pictures nor discuss any personal artwork, car, home, vacation, and etc, and therefore, even a poll sharing what my family is worth is beyond my comfort level, which is why I have abstained disclosing that. It would remain the same whether I am in debt or whether I am wealthy. I do not participate in most polls as well, even if anonymous.

 

[momhappy]

I understand that this wasn't a thread asking about specifics (income, net worth, etc.) However, I think that even sharing vague/general info to some posters could feel like revealing too much private information. Like I said before, I don't discuss my personal finances (even in general terms) with anyone except my spouse and/or a banker, financial advisor, etc. (and the same is true for most people that I know).
Don't get me wrong - It's definitely an interesting topic. I just think that it's intertwined with privacy and/or what someone deems as an appropriate level of sharing, which inhibits the conversation to some extent.

 

[partgypsy]

Looked up the article and for our age we are between the 4th and 5th quintile in networth, which surprised me. Our networth is entirely due to my retirement fund + equity in our house. We are "cash poor". Our house is modest, our single car is old and repair-prone, and due to a new ongoing financial obligation for our youngest child, we will need to make cuts/changes to our budget just to not go into the red. I don't anticipate this changing for the next 10 years. Our financial landscape has changed and we need to adapt. I am thankful I have a job and able to cover the bills. However I guess before this happened, I didn't realize how "good" I had it as far as having some disposable income. Maybe some of you are in that boat right now.

 

[kenny]

... and all this time I thought BMI was the most touchy topic on PS.

 

[telephone89]

I understand people are touchy about privacy - but then why bother answering in the first place? This reminds me of the 'where do you keep your jewellery' thread, and there were a ton of answers like 'Psh, like I would post on the internet!' - Um, then continue along, no need to post something pointless that doesn't add to the conversation at all.

I too noticed an aversion to someone being called wealthy. Perhaps it is only that someone does not want to call THEMSELVES wealthy, but are fine if others do. It's not really bragging if someone else says it

 

[chrono]

I don't think it is pointless. For this thread, it might be to explain why not as many people are responding. As for the "where do you keep XYZ" thread, it also explains why the poster thinks it isn't a good idea to post such information publicly. This is, after all, an open forum where nobody can control who posts what and where the thread is headed.

This is the first time I've heard that modesty and humbleness is considered a bad characteristic.

 

[telephone89]

I read through the thread, I don't think I saw a single post wondering why more people weren't answering. I mean, if people want to contribute just to get their +1 post for a post count, that's not my business. But yes, I do believe it is pointless.

 

[chrono]

In that case, we see things differently. I like different points of view and I don't mind it at all.

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm wealthy. I zoom in on rich men like a heat-seeking missile, marry and divorce voraciously, and spend the rest of my life buying bling and posting it on PS.

Nah, just kidding.

Always the one you least suspect.

Well, yanno, if I dressed in animal print, red stilettos, and a leather miniskirt, I might be a tad obvious.

I save that outfit for the Annual Alimony Dinner. That's when you've successfully negotiated an increase from your sugar daddies.

 

[Jambalaya]

What I've learnt from this thread is that I need to go bar-hopping with Jamba

Snort! Me too!

Oh no, dahlings, I hunt alone. Can't stand the competition!

I'm just being silly. All this money talk is making me want to put on a rich-bitch costume and stalk around like Joan Collins in Dynasty. (Showing my age now!)

 

[kenny]

Well, yanno, if I dressed in animal print, red stilettos, and a leather miniskirt, I might be a tad obvious.

Hey Lady, don't steal my routine!

 

[Jambalaya]

Kenny, please, please install a webcam in your home and make your own reality show. I think KenCam would be a hot Youtube hit!

 

[kenny]

Kenny, please, please install a webcam in your home and make your own reality show. I think KenCam would be a hot Youtube hit!

I did, but Ella took my link down.

 

[telephone89]

In that case, we see things differently. I like different points of view and I don't mind it at all.

I'm fine with different points of view. But coming into a thread, and posting "I'm not going to answer this thread" is pointless. That's not a different point of view?

"What nailpolish are you wearing"
"why would I tell you"

There's no point. Though, I could say that about this conversation too!

 

[chrono]

"What nailpolish are you wearing"
"why would I tell you"

There's no point. Though, I could say that about this conversation too!

See, I don't mind that at all. If you think there's no point to this conversation, then why are you responding to it?

 

[telephone89]

See, I don't mind that at all. If you think there's no point to this conversation, then why are you responding to it?

Settle down, I was just drawing a parallel in my own life.