Swedish alternative to our EV system ... no charging stations, smaller/cheaper/lighter batteries

[kenny]

Sweden’s innovative solution to powering electric cars - BBC Reel

Sweden is exploring the possibility electric roads which charge electric vehicles as they drive. Adrienne Murray paid a visit to a demonstration project in the south of the country where a new type of technology is being put through its paces.

www.bbc.com

 

[LilAlex]

Interesting. This does remind me a little of the "solar road" that worked OK until it got dirty. Who knew this could happen to roads?

And about new road tech, where I am we can't even fill our potholes...

 

[jordyonbass]

I can't imagine how expensive this would be to overhaul an entire country's road and electrical grid infrastructure so it could charge electric vehicles - even if it's just sections of roads. I do road resurfacing as it is and the amount it costs just to resurface a road is very expensive and very time consuming.

Not to mention the issue of supply here, coal fired power stations and nuclear power plants would be the only way I could see it being sustained with any kind of reliability and there would need to be a hell of a lot more built for it to work.

 

[perry]

The biggest issue is that remote charging is very energy inefficient.

My opinion is that as a society that we cannot afford that inefficiency at anything other than the smallest scale (I'd personally ban remote charging phones).

 

[LilAlex]

The biggest issue is that remote charging is very energy inefficient.

Remote meaning like far from where the energy is generated? Or "remote" like induction charging? I'm not driving to the dam to charge my phone!

 

[Matata]

Interesting concept. It would perhaps be an alternative choice for localized areas rather than large scale operation at least in the US. It will be interesting to see how the testing progresses.

 

[perry]

Remote meaning like far from where the energy is generated? Or "remote" like induction charging? I'm not driving to the dam to charge my phone!

The way most induction chargers are built is very energy inneficient.

While it is possible to build an induction charger that is 97% efficient (the best ever tested) that takes very expensive and precise coils on both the transmitter and reciever side, and close spacing.

Standard consumer product efficiency (say for phones) is by my understanding at best 60% efficient as the size, weight, and cost of high efficiency coils is considered prohibited for consumer products (assumiing perfect alighment of the phone on the charging pad). We cannot afford to toss away 40% of our generated electricity just for convenience. Not only is it a pure waste of resources; it also adds greatly to the amount of pollution generated.

I'll grant that it makes sense for implanted medical devices such as pacemakers. But not for most uses.

I cannot imagine that anyone would spend the money for really high effiency coils embedded into roads and then having really high effiency coils in cars that are only a few inches above the road (forget anything you know about normal clearances under a car or truck).

Convience is rarely efficent, and it is rarely secure as well in relationship to computer/smartphone applications.

Perry

 

[kenny]

Sorry, long post ...

I watched the 4:45 minute video in the link.
I'm no degreed engineer, but I received an excellent military edjumakation in the field of electronics in the 70s.

What's shown in the video is not induction charging.
It's just like plugging your phone's charger from the wall to your phone's jack via a wire ... a direct connection.

In 1833 Michael Faraday is credited with a groovy discovery.
When an AC is applied to a wire, a magnetic field develops around it.
It also works in reverse.
Another wire placed within that magnetic field gets electrical current 'induced' into it.
So, induction is a natural phenomenon in which electricity gets "induced" from one coil of wire to another without the two wires touching.
Magic.

Watch the video, from 1:06 to 1:37.
Look closely the bottom of the car.
You'll see the cars smooth metal contacts drop down to touch and be dragged across the smooth metal contacts in the road.
When sensors in the road detect the presence of a car above they switch on the 650 volts.
When the car passes the voltage instantly switches off, so pedestrians walking over the metal contact strips will not be harmed.

Brilliant! Well, as long as those sensors don't turn the power on when they sense something heavy and metal, like a battery-powered wheelchair.

BTW, induction is not always less efficient than direct electrical contacts.
It depends on the application.
For example, induction cooktops are more efficient than gas or electric stoves.
Europeans embraced induction cooking LONG before Americans did.

SNIP"
"An induction stove is 5 to 10 percent more energy-efficient than conventional electric stoves and about three times more efficient than gas stoves. And unlike gas, it’s better for indoor air quality."
Source:

Pros and Cons of Induction Cooktops and Ranges - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports highlights the pros and cons of induction cooktops and ranges, which cook faster and are more energy-efficient than gas or regular electric ranges.

www.consumerreports.org

With induction the glass on top does not itself get hot, though a hot pot on it will heat the glass.
A wire coil right under the glass induces current into the pot, which results in heat.
The stove literally uses the pot itself as the heater.
You do need induction-compatible pots though, in which a magnet will stick to the pot's bottom.

Sure, installing the Swedish system in roads will be expensive.
But I suspect a comprehensive analysis of every aspect of the entire system, cradle to grave, will show financial and climate savings.
The energy the road delivers to the car does two things, powers the car now, and recharges its battery for when it must travel on a regular road.

Imagine, no charger at home to buy, no waiting in line at public chargers, and no expense to install a zillion public chargers (the cost of which WILL be passed onto users in the fee they pay for the electricity they use.
I love the efficiencies built into the Swedish system. So smart.

The MPG of gas a car goes down as its weight goes up.
A lighter battery makes an EV lighter.
Needing less energy, a lighter EV will have a longer range, a real concern with EVs.

I read IIRC over 30% of today's price of an EV is the battery itself.
The eventual battery replacement price is now $4,000 to $20,000 dollars.
A smaller battery will substantially lower an EV's price.

Lithium is a rare metal, and China has a near-monopoly on sourcing, processing, and selling it.
Lithium, cobalt and nickel shortages are a huge problem which is expected to lead to substantial price increases.
Figuring out how to need less lithium is good, geo-politically and financially.
Also it lowers the carbon footprint of lithium acquisition, processing, and shipping.

Still, even if Sweden's system is proven to be better for people and for the planet, I doubt it will fly in America.
Here corporate interests outrank the people, and giving a crap about climate when money is to be made for the 1%ers.
Donations to politicians, and corporate lobbyists in Washington keep an iron fist on all that.

 

[Gloria27]

Volcano discovery could power electric cars for decades, scientists say

Ancient supervolcano holds potential to meet massive demand from global ‘lithium rush’

www.independent.co.uk

This is BIG news!