Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Suggestion on Racism response

perry

perry

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
2,547
I am sure that others on PS are disturbed by the number of incidents, and response, to police getting called about "suspicious" people; who's only suspicious based on their color or ethnic heritage.

What I wonder: Is why is the Police not interviewing the people who called them... and then issuing citations, with fines, for false reports to police due to racism or religious intolerance.

Now, not all cases would result in such tickets as you do have to look at behavior and attitude (which can be a justified reason for calling the police).

I suspect that would clear up the problem. A few tickets and the record they create... could leave a person open to significant legal jeopardy the future if there is a racial incident. Also, multiple violates would become increasingly costly (like multiple DUI's).

Anyway, that is my thought on a solution - and to show people inappriately stopped or detained that they are not being singled out.

Thoughts anyone...

Perry
 
Perry asked:

"why is the Police not interviewing the people who called them... and then issuing citations, with fines, for false reports to police due to racism or religious intolerance."

Off the top of my head: a police officer already has plenty of work to do that he is assigned without making more work for himself by creating new bureaucratic jobs for himself. You are suggesting that without being told to do so that he assign himself the task of reporting anyone who calls in what turns out to have been a "false alarm". The false alarm may be the result of racism or xenophobia but it may not have been intended to create trouble; it may have been the result of fear and/or stupidity. Does the police officer want to wade into this if he is not going to be forced to by circumstances? I think that in most circumstances, the officer might be content with doing his job, that is resolving the conflict; helping anyone who is injured; and arresting anyone who committed a crime. Looking for the motive behind something that is not a clear hate crime or a violation of someone's civil rights seems to be like just asking for trouble.

That is just me being pragmatic. I belong to the ACLU.

AGBF
 
AGBF said:
Perry asked:

"why is the Police not interviewing the people who called them... and then issuing citations, with fines, for false reports to police due to racism or religious intolerance."

Off the top of my head: a police officer already has plenty of work to do that he is assigned without making more work for himself by creating new bureaucratic jobs for himself. You are suggesting that without being told to do so that he assign himself the task of reporting anyone who calls in what turns out to have been a "false alarm". The false alarm may be the result of racism or xenophobia but it may not have been intended to create trouble; it may have been the result of fear and/or stupidity. Does the police officer want to wade into this if he is not going to be forced to by circumstances? I think that in most circumstances, the officer might be content with doing his job, that is resolving the conflict; helping anyone who is injured; and arresting anyone who committed a crime. Looking for the motive behind something that is not a clear hate crime or a violation of someone's civil rights seems to be like just asking for trouble.

That is just me being pragmatic. I belong to the ACLU.

AGBF
Click to expand...

I tried really hard to follow the logic in your response...then you concluded with the one explanation that sums it all up.

I should know better than to click on threads like this...I'm going back to looking at jewelry. That's just me being pragmatic.
 
Are you talking about the case of bob marleys granddaughter? If I saw anyone, any color, taking bags out of a house that didn’t belong to them when the owner was not home I would probably ask the police to come by and check it out. I would hope my neighbors would do the same for me.
 
daneshpastry said:
I tried really hard to follow the logic in your response...then you concluded with the one explanation that sums it all up.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure in the big scheme of things that what I meant matters, but I will explain anyway. I hate being misunderstood. (And I am probably misunderstood more than most posters on Pricescope. I don't think it is because I do not write well. I think it is because of my sense of humor. Few people "get it" . I learn my lesson here and try to write clear, mundane prose for a while, but then I forget myself and revert to type. And the cycle repeats itself. Someone, or a group of people, misinterprets what I have said in a posting. Sometimes the person thinks I said something vicious and it gets very nasty here.)

What I was saying above is that although I was attempting to put myself into a police officer's shoes to explain why I wouldn't ask for trouble by writing out extra tickets, that as member of the general public I had sympathy for Perry's position. I was trying to tell him that I disapproved of racism and discrimination based on ethnic background and was, in fact, a member of the ACLU.
 
A cop can't give a ticket based on assumed motivations of someone calling in a situation like this. This solution would create more problems than it would ever fix. I don't want cops to be in the position of rendering punishment based on perceived motivations.

If this is the Marley granddaughter case then I think calling the cops was a bit much. If you are a neighbor and see someone casually loading suitcases into a car, if it were me I would ask them directly. Its not like they were sneaking around. But not everyone would feel comfortable doing that.

That said, it is a perfectly good reason for the police to check out a situation when people who do not live in the house are removing items and the owner is not home. Either we mean it when we say "see something, say something" or we don't. If we do mean it then misunderstandings will happen.
 
Last edited:
Perry, it is definitely an interesting point and very disturbing. I don't know a good answer for why it happens or what can be done to correct the issue without potentially causing other serious issues.

Other than adding more work to the already busy police, your idea would also open them up to more claims of racism as any time they deemed a call appropriate they would also have to justify that. Since it all comes down to judgement calls and perceptions of the situation at the time (so based on an incimplinc picture), it would be very prone to arguing the correctness of the officer's decision.

I would also hate to see things set up in such a way that people felt they HAD to notice color/religion/etc before calling police (and the police HAD to notice). As things are now, it is the behavior that is supposed to be the main focus. It is far from perfectly done, but at least the idea is supposed to be reporting a behavior not a color/religion/etc.

People knowing neighbors better again would be a help. People getting back in the habit of seeing a person rather than a color/religion/etc would be a huge help -- we are all people. (Which is not to say none of the rest matters and we shouldn't be proud of our background. Just that we are all people first and then the other things such as color/religion/gender/language/etc/etc/etc.)

My neighbor was gone one day. A beat up car (seldom something seen in this neighborhood) stopped. A couple of guys got out and looked around before going up to the neighbor's house and checking the door before walking around peaking in windows. I called the neighbor on his cell phone. Thankfully he answered and let me know those were the guys painting his house later in the summer. Had he not answered, I would have called the police to drive by and check on them.

Finding the balance of neighbors being able to watch out for each other and making it clear that calling the police because someone is the "wrong" color/religion/etc is not okay and won't be tolerated is going to be tricky. We need people to report genuinely suspicious behavior without having to also stop and evaluate what the risk is of being called a racist or of having the police agree but someone else make a stink and call them racist for not calling the reporter racist.

I don't know a good answer. Things are broken right now. The attitudes of so many need to be changed and not seen as acceptable. How to get there? I wish I knew.
 
I have a neighbor who my other neighbors complain calls the police on them for anything and everything. So far not me- I am waiting my turn. I am not going to expect the police to do anything but come out, see if any laws are broken and leave if indicated. I don't expect them to speculate on her motives. For example, she is bat turd crazy, she is jealous, she is lonely, she is racist, she is bored or whatever the heck floats her warped boat.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/us/yale-student-napping-black-trnd/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/us/yale-second-black-student-sarah-braasch/index.html

When neighbors are chronic in their racism and call the police all the time, the cops should give a stern lecture to the caller/s regardless of whether anyone thinks it would do any good. That lecture should contain a warning about making local law enforcement unhappy over repeated unnecessary/fraudulent calls.

In cases such as the Yale situation, mandatory sensitivity training for the white student and a warning that she'll be expelled if she continues, and then her privileged ass should be kicked to the curb.

In both scenarios, it should be emphasized that the concerned (racist) caller, should try talking to the person they're concerned about in situations where there is no clear threat to their well-being. If they claim they believe they are in peril because of the color of the person's skin, give them the option of spending 48 hours in a jail cell so they can experience the safety of those bars separating them from all the scary people....
 
I think it's really a case-by-case basis and I wouldn't expect Police to deal with it unless it was clearly a crazy, repeat offender.

In the latest Airbnb case, maybe the neighbours made a racist-based assumption and called the cops but equally it could have been genuine concern especially as it was NOT a registered Airbnb venue. It's also possible that the cops get frequently called out for similar incidents where the people involved are of
other colour/ethinicity it's just not reported as much in the news/social media...

I agree - simplest thing to do would have been to actually TALK to them and clear up the misunderstanding before calling the Police.
 
Hi,

The first thing that I want to say is thank you to Perry for even trying to find a possible solution. We need more people thinking.
It seems we have a dichotomy. On the one hand we are always being told that if we see something suspicious call the police, do not act on your own.. Now we are asked to make sure we are not being racist before we make that call. And then after we do, the police should make the determination for our being either racist, homophobic or whatever you want to insert. Again, the news media wants us to gear up to a minor version of black lives matter, or Move-On.Org by reporting these events so much more lately.
Until we understand that until our culture corrects itself of the larger versions of these problems, the more minor should be handled by the institutions they occur in. I agree with Matata that the female student who dared report a black student for napping at Yale is the one to be lectured and warned. I will continue to call police if I feel endangered or think my neighbors will be.
Thanks Perry,
Annette
 
Not sure if it matters, but Rialto, where the Airbnb rental was is a pit. Lots of gang activity and crime. The woman who called the police is being made out to be racist and a bad person but she may have just been trying to be a good neighbor. Unless your neighbors know that you are renting out your house, this could be a problem anywhere. Not sure why anyone would want a airbnb house in Rialto.
 
The issue is overblown and the media is making a spectacle out of the incident.
Whatever the prime reason the neighbor called the cops due to an usual activity with unfamiliar strangers moving suitcases out her neighbor's house, cops are REQUIRED to respond and do their due diligence to thoroughly investigate the situation.
 
If one doesn't know their neighbor is using their home as a VRBO or Airbnb then it's not out of line to call the cops whatever the color of the participants are, in the Cali case the woman should have alerted her neighbors.

The Yale case, blatant craziness I think, and I don't blame the black woman for being totally pissed off, because she opened the key to her room for heaven's sake! once the cops stepped over the line of not accepting her ID and room key as proof of being a student, then it became a racist situation in my mind. How many crooks are going to have a fake Yale ID made? there is better fish to fry in New Haven. The crazy woman? she has enough degrees to fill a binder, 2 engineering, 1 law and a couple of others, plus this new one coming and she is 43, she's brilliant and crazy, Yale should boot her in my book, she doesn't need education she needs help.

the two guys at the Starbucks? racism.

the kid in SC who was thrown into a choke hold by a cop? that was racism.

Racism, alive and well in America. I used to think it would go away, it went underground and reappeared under Trump, who is a racist.
 
All these stories are upsetting and disappointing. The woman at Yale needs to get a life and I was surprised the cops weren’t questioning her instead of the young woman. How on earth is a sleeping woman a threat?

Trump opened the door for racists to feel it was acceptable to be a racist. There are many ignorant people in the world who never interact with people of different ethnicities and cultures. They could learn so much by doing so. We are going so backwards as a country. It’s sad.
 
Thank all of you who have recognized the issue. I would like to point out to others that the police indeed can write tickets in other situations for inappropriate based calls to the police in many states. "crying wolf" can be a crime in and of itself; and saying that the police are already too overworked to address such issues is not a valid defense. Perhaps a lot of this kind of workload would disappear if the police started to address and challange the callers in cases where there is no other signs of violence or issues.

In my opinion, they at least should be seriously questioning the callers once they determine that there really is no problem (and I think that the police should back off on how extensively they investigate certain calls as well - as that appears to be racist, etc. as well).

In the case of airbnb and similar arrangements: People are advised to notify their neighbors in advance that they have rented their place to prevent issues; and most people do in fact notify their neighbors. So, the neighbor should have known (but, perhaps did not).

Unfortunately, I actually believe that the press is under reporting the events. I personally witness many events where a professional person of " " is treated differently than if they are WASP (or look like they are). It is disturbing to see that in today's American society. The reality is that a person of " " has often gotten used to be treated differently by certain segments of the public and by the police and judicial system. My view is that it is getting worse than it was 2-3 decades ago. Not a good trend.

I really do not understand why people do not just approach the other people and ask. I have done that on several occasions in the last year, and then helped one person who did not know how to get where they were trying to go. The other couple appreciated that I asked just to see that things were OK. You don't need to call the police - unless the situation seems to be violent or involve someone acting heavily drugged or intoxicated (etc.).

Have a great day,

Perry
 
blueMA said:
The issue is overblown and the media is making a spectacle out of the incident.
Whatever the prime reason the neighbor called the cops due to an usual activity with unfamiliar strangers moving suitcases out her neighbor's house, cops are REQUIRED to respond and do their due diligence to thoroughly investigate the situation.
Click to expand...

I thought I would address this one separately. At least within the United States of America: Cops are not required - nor can be legally held responsible (many court rulings on that) for not responding to actual crimes in progress to the general public (including crimes that included in progress rape, torture, and murder - all things that have seen court rulings on). I do believe that is true in most countries as well.

They do not have to investigate claims about possible problems. They may chose to do so because in general it reduces crime. But, there is no legal requirement for them to do so (in fact the actual law is that they specifically do not have that responsibility).

Within the United States of America: The police are legally required to investigate a crime that has been committed - after it has been committed (Not sure how applicable that is to other countries). Depending on the state within the USA, they may be legally required to provide certain protection services to public officials (I once benefited from that).

Have a great day,
 
Wow, that's no different than saying a firefighter or an ambulance doesn't have to show up to dispatched calls, a contractor you hired doesn't have to show up to paint your house, etc.

If a cop is called by a dispatch then he's on a hook and it is NOT up to the person to make a call for an appearance or not. It is the JOB, and if he/she doesn't show up to perform the duty, then you get fired or be vulnerable to civil liability. If you have any cop buddy, just ask and they'll tell you the same.

I don't know which part of US Pleasanville you live in, but I suggest you make a visit in the thick of Detroit and live there for a few days before you recommend others to take actions on their own. In some places, people can get shot by simply looking at certain people in a "wrong" way, and let's not forget the incidents of people/officers getting killed in broad daylight right at/near federal building senselessly.

Not everything is about color and you can't ask all people to put blinders on especially when they've been subjected to their own personal experiences and biases. Yes there are still ignorant people out there, but history has shown that's just people whether it's related to religion, culture, politics, etc.

Just because the incidents seems more visible now with everyone uploading medias to their online platforms doesn't mean things are getting worse, and it's quite the contrary. Look at Obama along with countless prominent colored figures/personalities, and recently Meghan Markle.

I'm off this thread.
 
blueMA said:
Not everything is about color and you can't ask all people to put blinders on especially when they've been subjected to their own personal experiences and biases. Yes there are still ignorant people out there, but history has shown that's just people whether it's related to religion, culture, politics, etc.

Just because the incidents seems more visible now with everyone uploading medias to their online platforms doesn't mean things are getting worse, and it's quite the contrary. Look at Obama along with countless prominent colored figures/personalities, and recently Meghan Markle.

I'm off this thread.
Click to expand...
What does Meghan Markle have to do with this? Are you saying one bi-racial person on TV somehow negates racism in your country???
 
I just saw this community response to a telephone call made to the police. I loved it. Article about it excerpted below.

"'Hundreds in Oakland Turn Out to BBQ While Black'

They arrived with chicken, sausages and bowls of macaroni salad. D.J.s played hip-hop and ’80s hits. Even the fire marshal showed up, as well as police officers who waved hello to passers-by and guided traffic.

What once was a grand tradition in Oakland — a party at Lake Merritt along a placid stretch of the San Francisco Bay — had new life on Sunday, as locals gathered for a picnic called 'BBQing While Black'

'It was epic,' Logan Cortez, an Oakland schoolteacher and an organizer of the event, said. 'It was a sea of love and blackness and food and fun.'

The event, which drew hundreds of visitors from around the Bay, was held in the wake of an episode on April 29, in which a white woman harangued two African-American men for grilling at the lake and called the police on them. The police arrived and spoke to the woman, who had claimed it was illegal for the men to use a charcoal grill in the area. There were no arrests.

But the video, which was viewed more than two million times on YouTube, ignited a debate about racism in Oakland, where gentrification has displaced many African-Americans who grew up there. Columnists wrote articles decrying the way the men were treated. Dozens of people gathered at the lake for a cookout and dance party. Protesters rallied at Oakland City Hall, demanding politicians take action. (This is the town where the Black Panther Party was founded.)

Online, the video took on a vibrant life of its own. A meme using the hashtag #BBQBecky went viral, with the image of the woman appearing behind President Barack Obama in the White House, as a guest at the Last Supper, behind Martin Luther King at the March on Washington and on the bus with Rosa Parks.

The woman was also parodied this past weekend on 'Saturday Night Live,' where she was played by an unsmiling Aidy Bryant. Attempts to reach the woman who reportedly called the police were unsuccessful.

Ms. Cortez said she saw the video and wasn’t surprised, given what she described as systemic racism in the town she grew up in. So, she sent a message to a few friends asking them to meet her at Lake Merritt for a barbecue."

Link...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/us/oakland-bbq-while-black.html
 
Last edited:
It is bad and shameful that racism is rampant, but frankly, the fewer time armed policemen spend in our neighborhoods, the better.

Also - has anyone considered that the police squad who responds there could be white, black, Hispanic, Asian cops, or all of them together? Imagine that in the squad arriving at Airbnb, there was a couple of black cops (there probably were some, Cali is racially diverse), and that the squad then decided to issue the citation to the white neighbor who called them. Bob Marley’s granddaughter is planning to sue California PD...and after the citation, the white neighbor would also sue them for reverse discrimination.

It is the lawyers’ and the judges’ job to deal with the situation. As well as the journalists’ one.
 
Here's an egregious new "everyday" case of racism. It does not involve a killing. Or police brutality. In fact, the the person arrested also resisted arrest. But it's another example of casual racism. An adult white woman thought she could get away with hitting a black teenage boy who was the invited guest of someone who belonged to the same group with whom she shared a pool. She told him he "didn't belong" there and called him "a punk" as she hit him.

Link...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/us/pool-patrol-paula.html
 
blueMA said:
Not everything is about color and you can't ask all people to put blinders on especially when they've been subjected to their own personal experiences and biases. Yes there are still ignorant people out there, but history has shown that's just people whether it's related to religion, culture, politics, etc.

Just because the incidents seems more visible now with everyone uploading medias to their online platforms doesn't mean things are getting worse, and it's quite the contrary. Look at Obama along with countless prominent colored figures/personalities, and recently Meghan Markle.

I'm off this thread.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but this is patently false. Instances of racism ARE getting worse and more common since Trump was elected. It's true. Obama and Meghan Markle have literally nothing to do with this.
 
lovedogs said:
I'm sorry, but this is patently false. Instances of racism ARE getting worse and more common since Trump was elected. It's true. Obama and Meghan Markle have literally nothing to do with this.
Click to expand...

Thank you, lovedogs. Read this story of the idiot who mimicked Corey Lewandowski's "womp womp" while waving a gun at a group of people peacefully protesting Trump's separating children from their mothers at the border and then tell me Trump isn't causing racism!

Link...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/us/gun-immigration-protest-womp-womp.html
http://www.waff.com/story/38548330/...harge-after-threatening-protesters-with-a-gun
 
I guess we aren't allowed to elect black people to office. Trump is our punishment for electing Barack Obama as president. Look at this story!!!

"A resident who called police about a black woman behaving 'suspiciously' in her neighborhood may have been surprised to learn that it was her state representative. Oregon state Rep. Janelle Bynum says she was canvassing alone in a Portland-area neighborhood, knocking on doors, talking to people, and taking notes on her phone, when a sheriff's deputy turned up and asked if she was selling something, the AP reports. Bynum says the deputy told her somebody had called 911 and told dispatchers she appeared to be casing the neighborhood. She says the deputy, at her request, called and explained the situation to the apologetic woman, who said she called 911 for the 'safety of her neighborhood.'"


Link...http://www.newser.com/story/261497/cops-called-on-black-lawmaker-canvassing-in-own-district.html
 
lovedogs said:
I'm sorry, but this is patently false. Instances of racism ARE getting worse and more common since Trump was elected. It's true. Obama and Meghan Markle have literally nothing to do with this.
Click to expand...

I know people who are saying that much as they don’t like Trump, they voted for him because of Obama. I can’t wrap my head around it especially since some of these people liked Carson, but maybe I haven’t lived enough here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top