Star sapphire - real? Thoughts?

[hectorubiest]

Hi! A familiar thread, I know, apologies. A long-time reader, first-time poster. Unexpectedly came across a star sapphire. Love the translucency and the silk inside. I'm comfortable that the stone is natural, but beyond that my ability to assess it is zilch, especially with regard to quality/potential treatments. I didn't manage to attach a video, but the star is very mobile and the rutile needles run deep through the body of the stone. My impression is that it's legit, but curious as to others' thoughts! Many thanks!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Do you have a picture of the bottom?

It looks natural on first pass. It is very opaque, not translucent, which is less desirable in terms of market value. The flip side of opaque stones is the star is usually very strong, which can be fun.

 

[hectorubiest]

Do you have a picture of the bottom?

It looks natural on first pass. It is very opaque, not translucent, which is less desirable in terms of market value. The flip side of opaque stones is the star is usually very strong, which can be fun.

Thanks for the response! Oh, interesting - it was much more translucent than some of the other stones! All relative I suppose, and as I said, no experience with star sapphires. Photo attached. Part of the appeal for me was flat per-carat pricing, irrespective of size, which I've only otherwise seen with turquoise in Iran.

 

[stracci2000]

I say that's a diffusion star sapphire.
Heavily treated, but still pretty.

 

[hectorubiest]

Huh! That would be a shame. Could you tell me what stands out/why you think so?

Cheers

 

[stracci2000]

Huh! That would be a shame. Could you tell me what stands out/why you think so?

Cheers

I have a few just like yours. They were sold to me as diffusion treated. Once you see a diffusion treated star, it is easy to spot them.
The body color is darkened which enhances the star. It is still a star sapphire, just treated to look better.

 

[hectorubiest]

Can wrap this one up! Whole store was a really elaborate, really well done scam. Pretty incredible. Just sat down and thought it out properly. Annoying, but there you go.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have a few just like yours. They were sold to me as diffusion treated. Once you see a diffusion treated star, it is easy to spot them.
The body color is darkened which enhances the star. It is still a star sapphire, just treated to look better.

Interesting. I was thinking the texture of the material on the back side looked odd.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Can wrap this one up! Whole store was a really elaborate, really well done scam. Pretty incredible. Just sat down and thought it out properly. Annoying, but there you go.

A nice star sapphire with good translucency in the 4 ct range would cost upwards of $1k per carat so use that as a benchmark for quality in what you are looking at. Opaque stones may be half that. What did you pay for this one?

 

[Autumn in New England]

I was just going to add that it certainly looks natural (as in earth-mined) due to the internal characteristics. But it's difficult to wager a guess on treatments. What did you pay? Was it sold to you as untreated? If not, then I wouldn't necessarily say it was a scam. It may just be a case of "getting what you pay for," you know? It's still a pretty bauble though.

 

[hectorubiest]

Thanks for the feedback all! I won't reveal exactly what I paid - cheap enough that it should have been a flag, expensive enough that it is irritating (yes, the stones were sold as untreated).

It's honestly a bit of an interesting one. I actually have some experience with stones and am in general a pretty savvy shopper, but this really was a pretty sophisticated scam.

It was a polished store where the staff were polite, pleasant, not pushy, transparent in highlighting 'glass' jade, 'dyed' jade, and 'higher-quality' pieces (all of which are plastic - bought one and tested it later, but a clever way to appear forthright), they had a developed and plausible story about origin, family business, etc. etc., and explicitly claimed no treatments of their products. There were plenty of warning signs in hindsight, eg. Few reviews and a recent store - I suspect they just rent somewhere, close, then reopen elsewhere, and a very clever avoidance of writing down the identity of the marketed stones on formal documentation, etc.

Honestly, the price and a simple visual inspection should have been sufficient, but they caught me on one simple thing: for me to have acknowledged the readily apparent fact that the stones are a scam, I would have had to acknowledge that everything they said, every mannerism they adopted, and every element of the store was a blatant fabrication - something that part of me is simply reluctant (and deeply sad) to do.

They figured out what all good scammers know - if you sell yourself well, you can flog the same products any buyer would spot a mile off on etsy or ebay!

 

[hectorubiest]

To somewhat console my wounded heart and faith in humanity (I am fortunate in that my wallet is relatively resilient), and to say a small thanks for your contributions, the aforementioned turquoise (my last purchase), about which I have no such misgivings.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks for the feedback all! I won't reveal exactly what I paid - cheap enough that it should have been a flag, expensive enough that it is irritating (yes, the stones were sold as untreated).

It's honestly a bit of an interesting one. I actually have some experience with stones and am in general a pretty savvy shopper, but this really was a pretty sophisticated scam.

It was a polished store where the staff were polite, pleasant, not pushy, transparent in highlighting 'glass' jade, 'dyed' jade, and 'higher-quality' pieces (all of which are plastic - bought one and tested it later, but a clever way to appear forthright), they had a developed and plausible story about origin, family business, etc. etc., and explicitly claimed no treatments of their products. There were plenty of warning signs in hindsight, eg. Few reviews and a recent store - I suspect they just rent somewhere, close, then reopen elsewhere, and a very clever avoidance of writing down the identity of the marketed stones on formal documentation, etc.

Honestly, the price and a simple visual inspection should have been sufficient, but they caught me on one simple thing: for me to have acknowledged the readily apparent fact that the stones are a scam, I would have had to acknowledge that everything they said, every mannerism they adopted, and every element of the store was a blatant fabrication - something that part of me is simply reluctant (and deeply sad) to do.

They figured out what all good scammers know - if you sell yourself well, you can flog the same products any buyer would spot a mile off on etsy or ebay!

Are you able to return the stone? Forgive me if you mentioned this already (I'm on the road). Maybe consider contacting a local G.G. (if you don't want to spend $ on a lab cert). They usually charge a nominal fee to inspect a gem. And you'll get a more definitive answer. Although, diffusion can be tricky. Depending on the level of penetration, it can take more advanced gemological testing to decipher.

 

[Autumn in New England]

To somewhat console my wounded heart and faith in humanity (I am fortunate in that my wallet is relatively resilient), and to say a small thanks for your contributions, the aforementioned turquoise (my last purchase), about which I have no such misgivings.

The top one is almost certainly Sinai (Egyptian)? I LOVE that material! And the uniform stones are clearly either old Persian or SBT. Gorgeous!!

 

[hectorubiest]

Are you able to return the stone? Forgive me if you mentioned this already (I'm on the road). Maybe consider contacting a local G.G. (if you don't want to spend $ on a lab cert). They usually charge a nominal fee to inspect a gem. And you'll get a more definitive answer. Although, diffusion can be tricky. Depending on the level of penetration, it can take more advanced gemological testing to decipher.

Given the country I'm in and the extent to which I'm now sure the entire setup is an intentional scam, I suspect the chance of them refunding it is zero. I may just go back and split one open in front of them out of my own curiosity.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I wanted to show my Sinai turq (I commissioned the Navajo necklace.. it's huge!), and purchased the ring from Durango Silver.





And then I bought these beads directly from Egypt and made the necklace myself using 18k gold findings. Also huge. lol

 

[hectorubiest]

The top one is almost certainly Sinai (Egyptian)? I LOVE that material! And the unform stones are clearly either old Persian or SBT. Gorgeous!!

Good eye! And yeah it's stunning stuff...I was blown away by the dealer's collection. All were sold as Neyshabur, but I defer to you! Didn't have any reason to doubt the provenance, but not so important to me given that Persian isn't priced as a premium product anyway.

 

[hectorubiest]

H

I don't want to derail the thread, but I wanted to show my Sinai turq (I commissioned the Navajo necklace.. it's huge!), and purchased the ring from Durango Silver.





And then I bought these beads directly from Egypt and made the necklace myself using 18k gold findings. Also huge. lol

Awesome! Solid indeed! The larger stones are for me, smaller ones are a gift

 

[Autumn in New England]

Given the country I'm in and the extent to which I'm now sure the entire setup is an intentional scam, I suspect the chance of them refunding it is zero. I may just go back and split one open in front of them out of my own curiosity.

Did you pay with CC, applepay, cash, etc?

 

[hectorubiest]

Did you pay with CC, applepay, cash, etc?

Wise card. My understanding is any cash-back claim would require demonstrating the gems were sold as natural and untreated in the first place. Given they are clearly natural stones, and they assiduously avoided writing much down, not sure I can prove much more than I paid too much for what they are. Would be thrilled to be wrong, though, if you have an idea!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wise card. My understanding is any cash-back claim would require demonstrating the gems were sold as natural and untreated in the first place. Given they are clearly natural stones, and they assiduously avoided writing much down, not sure I can prove much more than I paid too much for what they are. Would be thrilled to be wrong, though, if you have an idea!

Personally, I can't tell by looking at them whether they're diffused or otherwise treated. But our @stracci2000 is very knowledgeable and she seems confident.

That being said, the only way to really know with absolute certainty, is to send them off to a lab. One of two things will happen, you'll have paid for confirmation of them being untreated (yay!) or you'll have paid to learn they're treated, and then you've thrown "good money after bad" (boo!). Conversely, a local G.G. may be able to give you a reasonably accurate, though not necessarily definitive, answer. If you receive a response from a G.G. or a reputable lab that the stones are treated, then yes, you'd still have to prove the seller said the stones were untreated in order to file a claim with your CC. Can you email the seller something like "just confirming the stones I purchased are natural/untreated star sapphires, as I require the info for insurance purposes." Don't sound accusatory at all.

Again, whether this is worth the effort or expense might be dependent on how much you paid (or how angry you are... lol). On the flip side of this, it may just be a valuable lesson learned. Always get it in writing!

 

[Bron357]

Education can hurt, both the pocket and your feelings.
Don’t let it put you off expanding your collection, just remember if it seems to be too good to be true, there’s your answer.
We have all made mistakes purchasing in glee and repenting at knowing.
If it’s a physical store you can revisit I’d be tempted to visit the store and just ask for a refund, they can only say no.