Square Diamond Search

[SearchPITA]

I'd like to purchase a loose square diamond and am having a difficult time locating a stone that meets my objectives.

Basic desired parameters:

Size: 1.8 - 2.2 ct
Color: E - F
Clarity: VVS1 - VVS2
Budget: ~$25,000

Aside from the basics, I am focused on stones that deliver optimized light performance and optical symmetry. This has proven more difficult than I anticipated, as most diamonds on the market don't seem to be cut for this purpose.

After some initial research, I decided to pursue a square cushion cut diamond from BGD. They don't have any inventory matching my parameters, and I'm told they aren't able to cut one due to a lack of rough diamond material in the market today. I could wait a bit longer for this to change, but I have no visibility on timing and can't wait indefinitely.

This has led me to consider other options.

I'm very interested in the Royal Asscher diamonds but haven't been able to locate a source for these. Per recent press releases, Royal Asscher does have a loose diamond program through select retailers. Does anyone have experience with this? Is there a vendor known to the PriceScope community?

I am aware of the Asscher Octavia but have some concerns with inconsistency within this family. ASET images I've seen for these stones seem to vary somewhat more than I would expect.

I've also considered a square radiant diamond and could be open to that if suitable options exist. There may be other patented cuts such as Ideal2 that I'm less familiar with. I am not a fan of the vintage cushion look.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed from here? I'd welcome any advice. Thanks!

 

[OcnGypZ]

Hearts and Arrows modified brilliant is what you should look for if you are into the splintery H&A look. If you like more vintage faceting with great performance look at August Vintage cushions. Call and talk to Jonathan at August VIntage about your parameters - he's good at finding a needle in a haystack.

 

[rotybob]

This is the closest to your parameters that I could find from PS vendors

2.00-Carat Cushion Cut Diamond | Blue Nile AU

www.bluenile.com

but its H&A pattern doesn't appear to be great if the video is sufficient to judge.

BGD usually has Black Friday offers which should bring their 2.124 F VS2 signature cushion sub 30k if you're interested in that one.

JannPaul is another vendor with positive reviews on here and several square options. There is a good chance that they have stones in your range of parameters upon inquiry. They're in Singapore however.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Rose-gold-or-bust]

I would consider broadening your search to include vs1 and vs2. Once a stone is eye clean, you are not gaining much or anything by getting higher clarity

 

[diamondhoarder]

Why not consider a H&A square radiant? There is a brand called Princess of Hearts which is a cut cornered square H&A radiant. It is cut for maximum fire and brilliance. Not of all of the POH style loose diamonds available are actually branded but they follow the same cutting parameters. I bought an unbranded one recently from B2C Diamonds, one of the vendors on this forum, and the performance is amazing.



There are various jewellers who stock the branded stones but my guess is that you would pay a premium for those. If you were interested It would be worth approaching B2C or a vendor like Jonathan at August Vintage who provides a search service to hunt down specific diamonds like these as they may know who the cutter is and be able to approach them direct.

 

[distracts]

I don’t think you would have any performance problems with an Octavia at all. I’ve seen a couple in person and they were so crazily sparkly I could barely tell what I was looking at at first through all the fire and light. They’re the most insane diamonds I’ve ever seen, in a good way. You’d have to have one custom cut but I assume that can be done - the hitch might be that if BGD can’t source rough for a stone with those specs, could rough be sourced for an Octavia?

 

[AV_]

Ask for one of these WWW

 

[KKJohnson]

Carre cut could be another option:

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[AV_]

@KKJohnson I would have certainly mentioned a carre if I knew of any on the market. The second stone with it little keel is so beautiful!

YF hasn't mentioned any in a while; once upon a time there were carrés with slightly cut corners for setting interest & such - models to dust off WWW

 

[OoohShiny]

I am aware of the Asscher Octavia but have some concerns with inconsistency within this family. ASET images I've seen for these stones seem to vary somewhat more than I would expect.

I believe the Octavia windmills have got fatter from their original cuts (@kenny noted the difference between his, which might have been no.1??, and one he viewed later, IIRC?) but the material itself will dictate a cut to a certain extent, which will have to be incorporated into the cutting process.

 

[SearchPITA]

Thanks to all for the suggestions and feedback. It sounds like there are multiple endorsements of Jonathan at August Vintage, so I will look into contacting him about my search process.

I'm leaning toward looking into the Octavia in more detail. I'd be hesitant to have one cut for me given the apparent variation in this style; it feels like I'm not quite sure what the end result might be. The PoH above also looks great, but I doubt my own ability to find one, so perhaps enlisting a professional will be best.

If anyone comes across a cut-cornered carre style, I'd love to take a look at that too.

 

[AV_]

If anyone comes across a cut-cornered carre style, I'd love to take a look at that too.

I doubt I will - there are too few around, most in 1930s rings. There is enough variation in this style for a book.

 

[kenny]

The light performance of the Octavia really does rival that of the best round cuts.
For an asscher to do that is a tribute to the genius of its designer, our own Karl K.

A well-cut traditional asscher has a totally different feeling, more peaceful and stately with its long bars of color.
The Octavia is more of a crackling fireworks show.
Both are beautiful in their own way.
I wore and loved my suberbly-cut 2.26 ct asscher for years, but sold it and got a 1.51 ct Octavia.

Actually, I've bought two Octavias.
IIRC, In 2010 I bought the first Octavia to be sold ...

The world''s first Octavia ring

The Octavia diamond was designed by our own genius KarlK, cut by DiaGem and sold by the Pricescope vendor Good old Gold here. This GIA 1.34 ct, H VS2 is the first Octavia sold. Here is a link to a long thread about it. Close up pics of the diamond start at the bottom of pg 3. My long-winded...

www.pricescope.com

This thread has some Octavia size comparison pics:

Asscher weight - 1ct vs. 1.5 - will I notice a difference?

I have a 1 carat asscher solitaire, measuring 6.02 x 5.09 x 3.48. I'm considering upgrading it to a slightly larger stone, but within my budget, I could go to about 1.5ct. I have a jeweler looking for stones to show me (it is taking some time), but since asschers aren't the most popular, I can't...

www.pricescope.com

Another Octavia thread:

Show me your OCTAVIA!

As requested, this is a thread dedicated to Octavia! Can't wait to see these beauties in different settings! :appl: :love: :appl:

www.pricescope.com

If you google around you'll find more threads on the Octavia.

 

[SearchPITA]

The Octavia is definitely impressive.

I’m strongly considering a Royal Asscher stone as well (patented version). It seems like the RA would have less sparkle than the Octavia but still perform better than most generic asschers. Is this accurate? Are the RA patented stones known to be of particularly high cut quality?

 

[kenny]

The Octavia is definitely impressive.

I’m strongly considering a Royal Asscher stone as well (patented version). It seems like the RA would have less sparkle than the Octavia but still perform better than most generic asschers. Is this accurate? Are the RA patented stones known to be of particularly high cut quality?

Yes.
I also searched for a RA, but stumbled upon an exceptionally well-cut asscher being discussed here.
Even our resident asscher cut expert, Karl K, praised it before he became a trade member - which made him less free to comment here.
It became available and I bought it, but later sold to get an Octavia.

Like other traditional asschers mine had 3 rows of facets on the crown and 3 rows on the pavilion.
IIRC the RA has 5 rows each.
I believe that more rows (when optimally angled) means more light return when viewing on and off axis, and more "virtual" facets, translates to more flashes of light - but each flash is smaller .

RA and Octavia command a price premium over a generic, but you are guaranteed to get the brand's light performance.
I for one don't mind ending up with a smaller stone for a given budget if it performs better.
IMO a diamond is ALL about the light show that only diamond can put on - but only when it's cut to do that - and most are cut to maximize weight - because while few customers understand cut or have seen a well-cut diamond, ALL customers understand carat weight.
(Sorry for that run on sentence.)

So, comparing generic, RA and Otavia ...
When optimally cut (nearly impossible and difficult to locate) a generic can have great elegance and classic beauty.
With 5 rows of Pavilion and Crown facets, the RA will have smaller bars of color but more of them and IMO better light return than the best 3-row generic.
The Octavia also has 3-rows of facets but Karl has designed it so the position of the girdle, the depth of the crown and pavilions, and the angles of the facet rows and the windmill design doesn't let hardly any light leak out the bottom.
As with the best-cut rounds nearly all light is returned back out the top to your eyes.
Even under a sky with even cloud cover the diamond looks nearly solid white, like a mirror.

I think the Octavia's very high crown is in-part why it still has so much sparkle even when viewed off axis, such as looking down at your hand when you have not flipped your hand up so your view is perfectly on-axis.
And actually, 99% of the time that is how we see our diamond rings.

FWIW I've owned both Solasfera and Whiteflash ACA rounds, so I know good light performance when I see it.

 

[OcnGypZ]

RA's are pretty. But one matching your parameters will exceed your budget.

 

[OoohShiny]

@acebruin has a lovely Royal Asscher that I stumbled on earlier today!
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-l-etc-color-emerald-cuts.155942/post-2841273

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'd like to know if the Octavia can be cut for some colored stones with a good result.? Or should I post this in the colored stone section?

Annette

 

[rockysalamander]

Hi,

I'd like to know if the Octavia can be cut for some colored stones with a good result.? Or should I post this in the colored stone section?

Annette

You can get a variety of asshers in colored stones, but they will not perform like a diamond cut into an octavia (@Karl_K should know if anyone has had a octavia-inspired colored stone). That branded cut was specifically created for diamond material and its optics.

Step-cuts in colored stones are always more difficult to find it excellent performance simply due to the optics of non-diamond material. They often have tilt windows with any larger facets. The more durable options (sapphire, ruby) have much lower refractive index, so you don't get the same light return. These materials are really helped by brilliant cutting. So, you will more often see a radiant or mixed radiant style cut for square shapes in colored stones.

I have seen a lovely natural lavender/blue/purple spinel in a mixed step/brilliant-cut in my youth. I have not idea what cut it was, as I was in "be seen and not heard mode", but this would be long before precision cutting. It was lovely and I still think of it. Elle at the Gemstone Project has a lovely step-cut spinel. Spinels can work in step-cuts compared to sapphire/ruby due to their refractive index. I would love a stone-like TGP's one day. And, her setting was perfect for it.

 

[kenny]

Hi,

I'd like to know if the Octavia can be cut for some colored stones with a good result.? Or should I post this in the colored stone section?

Annette

As Rockysalamander said, Octavia's designer Karl K should answer your question but I think his Octavia cut 'recipe' is for the Index of Refraction of natural diamond.
Other stones have different RI, so would require the dimensions be changed.
I doubt that's free, and don't know it it is even possible or would work.

I've noticed Karl posting here on Rocky Talk, but rarely, if ever, on the Colored Stones forum.

Karl, are your here?

 

[MrsKBP]

I have a square emerald stone that I bought from a local (Houston) diamond supplier. He had come across a custom handmade ring just hours prior to my visit. The previous owner was the wife of a well known local jewelry house that had passed away. She could not wear the ring anymore and as luck would have it...it’s now mine. I had an appointment to see BGD that afternoon but knew right away I had to have the ring. I too did not want to wait as I was looking for a stone in the 5+ range.
I went in with an open mind to just fall in love with the stone and not papers. I have a 6.33 carat center stone, H/VS1 and it is beyond lovely. If you’re in Houston, I’ll gladly share his contact info as he is incredibly well connected not in just loose stones but estate pieces as well. I bought my diamond studs & diamond bracelet from him and also had him make my wedding bands.
Not a day goes by without someone telling me how gorgeous my ring is and yet not once has anyone ever asked the color, grade, etc. (They have asked the size)!!
With that being said, I didn’t have much of a budget and could have gone higher in color, clarity, etc. but when I saw the fire in this stone and setting I fell in love and it was absolutely the right choice.
Hope you find what you’re looking for and let me know if you’d like our diamond dealer’s information!

 

[Starfacet]

let me know if you’d like our diamond dealer’s information!

I'm in Dallas and would love to get the contact info for this jeweler. I'd drive to visit him!

 

[MrsKBP]

I'm in Dallas and would love to get the contact info for this jeweler. I'd drive to visit him!

I don’t know how to send a dm! Can you dm me first and I’ll send you his contact info?
Let me know if you’d like to know the prices on my pieces to get an idea if you think he’s reasonable. We thought he was!

 

[Starfacet]

I don’t know how to send a dm! Can you dm me first and I’ll send you his contact info?
Let me know if you’d like to know the prices on my pieces to get an idea if you think he’s reasonable. We thought he was!

No DM as far as I know, but my contact info is here:

Starfacet here! | Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com

 

[MrsKBP]

No DM as far as I know, but my contact info is here:

Starfacet here! | Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com

Got it! Just sent you his contact information as well as our names. I pick out what I want and the Mr. pays for it! Let me know how it goes or if y’all make contact. Maybe we will meet up in Houston!

 

[Starfacet]

Got it! Just sent you his contact information as well as our names. I pick out what I want and the Mr. pays for it! Let me know how it goes or if y’all make contact. Maybe we will meet up in Houston!

Haven't gotten your email yet. Checked my spam folder too.

 

[MrsKBP]

Haven't gotten your email yet. Checked my spam folder too.

I sent it again...subject line is Contact information from Mrs. KBP.

 

[Starfacet]

I sent it again...subject line is Contact information from Mrs. KBP.

Did you click Contact This Seller, or did you send me an email directly? Only asking because it hasn't shown up yet.

 

[MrsKBP]

Did you click Contact This Seller, or did you send me an email directly? Only asking because it hasn't shown up yet.

I hit contact seller...but I just now sent an email! Sorry. Operator Error!

 

[Starfacet]

@MrsKBP got it!!