square cut questions

[sera]

As I am not having much success finding a decent quality/size Asscher within our budget since I have been finding they look smaller than something else in a similar weight, I may have to go with a another type of square cut *sniffle.* I am also trying to find cheaper settings (all the ones I like (small sidestones and pave without square-ish baskets) are around $3000. I am trying to find one under $1500 and put an extra $1500 towards the diamond). Right now we can spend $5,000-6,000. In several months we can spend another $2000 (so we can wait on the wedding band if one is needed for the setting or I suppose I could put that towards an upgrade).

I know a lot of the answers to my questions will depend on a lot of factors... but just a generalization would help me a lot. How good (or bad) is an Asscher with a "good" cut? Could the windmills be noticably off center or vary in size? Might it be dull? Typically, do the B&M stores carry "good?"

I have been only looking at VS1 or VS2 for the Asscher- afraid anything less would be visible on an Asscher. Going to another cut, I could feel safe about getting an SI1 or 2 which would save money.

Does anyone have any experience/opinions on the Square H&A from GOG? I imagine being a special cut would bring me to the same problem of finding something in our budget... and although a different type of sparkle from an Asscher, it did look stunning online (and everyone's RB H&A here has made me very interested in them- they are beautiful!).

Which square-ish cuts have the most brilliance? I do prefer a Radiant cut to Princess though the X-Factor Princess looks gorgeous. Any suggestions? Would my least favorite square cut (Princess)generally give me more dimaond for my money... and even more so if the corners are clipped? But I still love the Asscher...

 

[sera]

OR I could get an Asscher now in a temp setting and the setting later???
Comments? Opinions? Help, my brain is gonna short circuit

AHHH! I can''t decide! I can''t decide!

 

[junior35]

If you want "good flash for your cash" then a well cut princess will do that for you. Also you could go with an SI1 Asscher,provided the SI is on the side ,somewhere where the prong of the setting will hide it.If you''re thinking about setting in yellow gold,then H/I is no problem and will increase your budget options.

 

[sera]

I won''t be setting it in yellow gold, though I would not mind some yellow gold accents. That is something to definitely consider. I would prefer platinum, but to keep the cost down I was planning on white gold.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/30/2007 5:03:24 PM
Author: junior35
If you want ''good flash for your cash'' then a well cut princess will do that for you. Also you could go with an SI1 Asscher,provided the SI is on the side ,somewhere where the prong of the setting will hide it.If you''re thinking about setting in yellow gold,then H/I is no problem and will increase your budget options.

I disagree that a princess and asscher give you good flash for the cash. In terms of face up size, these are the two absolute worst cuts to get. If you want size and flash for your cash with a square stone, then radiants are probably the way to go. BUT that being said princesses are probably cheaper to get than a good asscher because you can go a lot further down in clarity with princesses than asschers. A "good" cut stone of ANY kind is NOT a good idea, especially a stone like an asscher.

 

[junior35]

You want to be a stickler then fine.In square cuts ,in my opinion, the biggest flash will be a Barion cut...but where the heck are you going to find one?
Radiants are fine,but it''s a matter of taste.I personally don''t much like Radiants. There is a better chance of finding a beautifull Princess.

 

[sera]

OK... thanks for that info, and that is pretty much what I was figuring... "good" didn''t sound too good especially in a step cut.

My main concern is not size... I would MUCH prefer quality to size. I drew out the mm size on a paper and my fi and I think a 5mmx5mm Asscher is really small and just going a sq.mm bigger seems significantly bigger. But, I DO want that sparkle! And I just love the flash that an Asscher gives; it is so different.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/30/2007 5:27:19 PM
Author: sera
OK... thanks for that info, and that is pretty much what I was figuring... ''good'' didn''t sound too good especially in a step cut.


My main concern is not size... I would MUCH prefer quality to size. I drew out the mm size on a paper and my fi and I think a 5mmx5mm Asscher is really small and just going a sq.mm bigger seems significantly bigger. But, I DO want that sparkle! And I just love the flash that an Asscher gives; it is so different.

Princesses are a lot easier to find than asschers, and radiants will face up bigger, but all are distinctly different looks. If you love the asscher then you should get what you love! Is it possible to buy the stone that you can afford now, buy from a vendor with an upgrade policy, and trade it in in a few years for a bigger stone?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/30/2007 5:24:29 PM
Author: junior35
You want to be a stickler then fine.In square cuts ,in my opinion, the biggest flash will be a Barion cut...but where the heck are you going to find one?

Radiants are fine,but it's a matter of taste.I personally don't much like Radiants. There is a better chance of finding a beautifull Princess.

Chill out. All she asked was whether they give good "flash for the cash", which generally means size. I was just letting her know that sizewise asschers and princesses face up a lot smaller than radiants. I don't like princesses OR radiants, but that doesn't mean that she shouldn't get all the knowledge to make her own decision.

 

[sera]

Yes, upgrading is an option. Also, I clicked the link for Amazon's actual diamond size chart... so I was thinking the stones were smaller than what they really were. My rough estimates without a mm ruler on a 5x5mm stone were off- way off... more like the 4.35x4.35 stone. So really, 5x5 is something I am totally fine with... and really, even the 4.35 I would be cool with.

 

[Jenn5504]

Sounds to me like you''ve fallen in love with the assher cut (and why not, it''s AMAZING!). GO FOR WHAT YOU LOVE.

I think getting a simple solitaire setting now and an upgraded setting down the road would be a good option. Or definately going with a vendor who offers a good upgrade policy for a larger stone down the road. Asshers certainly aren''t "cheap".......but dang they are pretty.

 

[vespergirl]

Hi Sera,

I can totally sympathize with your situation - all I knew when we went ring shopping was that I loved the squar ecut stones, and thought that I wanted an asscher. I looked at asschers, princess cuts, and square radiants.

The princesses looked the biggest of the 3 - that''s because the pointed corners, and the "v-shape" prongs that princesses are mounted into add considerable optical size to a mounted stone. I really liked princesses, but my husband wasn''t crazy about them - unlike me, he didn''t like the pointed corners, but to each his own ...

So, that narrowed it down to asschers and square radiants (we were looking at Luceres in particular). I nearly went with the Lucere, but because it''s branded, it was much more expensive than a generic asscher. Also, I had fallen in love with asschers before we went shopping, and I''ve always favored step-cuts. So, when I tried both on my hand, the asscher just felt more "me". So, we ended up going with the asscher, which I love. I also get TONS of compliments on it, because hardly anyone has asschers. I get more compliments on my 2 carat asscher than my friend does on her 3 carat princess, because asschers are less common, and people are always intrigued when they see mine. Regarding the square radiant type, they look smaller than princesses when mounted, and depending on the mounting, they may not even seem particularly squarish - I''ve seen some that look more like cushions when mounted, only smaller.

So, if you''re looking for a square cut, but one that''s going to look largest on your hand, I''d go for a princess with v-tip prongs. If you are looking for something different, I would go with an asscher. You''ll get lots of compliments, and it will definitely stand out as something different. The radiants I''ve seen in person were pretty, but I haven''t seen people go crazy over them - it''s like they don''t have as much "wow" factor unless they''re really big, or in a very unusual setting.

Also, I would go with a solitaire in a white gold setting, and get the biggest stone that you can, since square-cuts do face up smaller than rounds or other fancies. You can always change the setting later, but some guys are weird about upgrading the stone later.

 

[Ellen]

Have you considered (or are you aware of) the Square Hearts and Arrow cut? Square with the flash of a round.

http://204.17.89.15/ShapeTutorials/SqareHATutorial/

 

[vespergirl]

Hi sera,

I just went back and read everything - it sounds to me like you won''t be truly happy with anything but an asscher, so that''s what you should go for. I would still do a plain white gold solitaire setting to start with, so you can put as much money as possible into the stone. It''s easy to upgrade your setting later. Also, you can add a diamond wedding band which adds a lot of sparkle. I liked the clean modern sets at precisionset.com, so you can look there for some examples of solitaires with diamond bands, and how the bands can add some wow factor.

Regarding the quality of asschers, you MUST see them in person to judge. I just traded up my 2.2 carat H VVS2 for a 2.25 carat F VS1 and I''m SO MUCH happier with my new stone, even though the specs aren''t the "ideal" that are recommended on PS. It''s also EGL certified, as opposed to my old stone which was GIA, but the new stone is SO MUCH nicer, which you can only tell by looking at it, even though the certifications would say otherwise. So, I strongly urge you guys to get out there & look at a bunch of asschers until you find one you love.

Here''s some asscher shopping advice - even though some of it breaks the "rules," I think you''ll be able to use this info to find a great asscher:

1. Try to find a 4 or 5 step asscher - my last one was a 3 step, and it had less scintillation, because there were fewer facets. I don''t know if that will make a difference in a stone around 1 carat, but look around and see if it makes a difference to you.

2. I would try not to go below H color and VS2 clarity, but I have seen some gorgeous asschers in color as low as J and clarity as low as SI1, and long as the inclusion in not visible face up once set.

3. I know that this is supposed to be the kiss of death in some asschers, but I found that a larger table makes the stone look BIGGER. My stone has a 69% table, and it adds a lot of spread to the stone. I went to Harry Winston last weekend, where they sell "square emeralds," not "asschers," and they all had larger tables, around 65% to 70%. The jeweler there told me that they prefer those stones because they look larger. I took a look at the Sex & the City Harry Winston asscher (I have the episode on DVD) and that stone has a larger table & it''s gorgeous, so don''t just judge by number. You really have to look at an asscher to see if it''s the one for you, not just look at the spec numbers.

Good luck, and I can''t wait to see your ring!

 

[sera]

Date: 7/1/2007 12:17:48 PM
Author: Ellen
Have you considered (or are you aware of) the Square Hearts and Arrow cut? Square with the flash of a round.

http://204.17.89.15/ShapeTutorials/SqareHATutorial/

Yes. When I was briefly reconsidering a ring without an Asscher, I looked into that stone. They really look stunning and it is VERY tempting.

Because I really like the ring I posted- the Martin Flyer with the Asscher side stones set at a "diamond angle" rather than a "square angle," I was (and am) contemplating a Square H&A or a RB H&A as a center stone with Asscher sides. It seems that might solve some problems... I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that I could get a slightly larger, nice looking H&A for less than a decent center Asscher.

 

[sera]

Date: 7/1/2007 12:21:59 PM
Author: vespergirl
Hi sera,


I just went back and read everything - it sounds to me like you won''t be truly happy with anything but an asscher, so that''s what you should go for. I would still do a plain white gold solitaire setting to start with, so you can put as much money as possible into the stone. It''s easy to upgrade your setting later. Also, you can add a diamond wedding band which adds a lot of sparkle. I liked the clean modern sets at precisionset.com, so you can look there for some examples of solitaires with diamond bands, and how the bands can add some wow factor.


Regarding the quality of asschers, you MUST see them in person to judge. I just traded up my 2.2 carat H VVS2 for a 2.25 carat F VS1 and I''m SO MUCH happier with my new stone, even though the specs aren''t the ''ideal'' that are recommended on PS. It''s also EGL certified, as opposed to my old stone which was GIA, but the new stone is SO MUCH nicer, which you can only tell by looking at it, even though the certifications would say otherwise. So, I strongly urge you guys to get out there & look at a bunch of asschers until you find one you love.


Here''s some asscher shopping advice - even though some of it breaks the ''rules,'' I think you''ll be able to use this info to find a great asscher:


1. Try to find a 4 or 5 step asscher - my last one was a 3 step, and it had less scintillation, because there were fewer facets. I don''t know if that will make a difference in a stone around 1 carat, but look around and see if it makes a difference to you.


2. I would try not to go below H color and VS2 clarity, but I have seen some gorgeous asschers in color as low as J and clarity as low as SI1, and long as the inclusion in not visible face up once set.


3. I know that this is supposed to be the kiss of death in some asschers, but I found that a larger table makes the stone look BIGGER. My stone has a 69% table, and it adds a lot of spread to the stone. I went to Harry Winston last weekend, where they sell ''square emeralds,'' not ''asschers,'' and they all had larger tables, around 65% to 70%. The jeweler there told me that they prefer those stones because they look larger. I took a look at the Sex & the City Harry Winston asscher (I have the episode on DVD) and that stone has a larger table & it''s gorgeous, so don''t just judge by number. You really have to look at an asscher to see if it''s the one for you, not just look at the spec numbers.


Good luck, and I can''t wait to see your ring!

Thanks for the info. I may end up just getting a temp setting since I can''t find any setting that I like completely, so getting the setting may take significant time... meanwhile, my eyes are goin'' buggy from reading and searching so much!

I can''t wait to see it either! I know I want an Asscher in there somehow... and I want some color accent. Ugh... long way to go until a decision! I am so appreciative of all the help here!

 

[chrono]

Date: 7/1/2007 12:21:59 PM
Author: vespergirl

1. Try to find a 4 or 5 step asscher - my last one was a 3 step, and it had less scintillation, because there were fewer facets. I don''t know if that will make a difference in a stone around 1 carat, but look around and see if it makes a difference to you.

Vespergirl has a HUGE over 2 ct asscher so the extra facets look (almost RA or RA style) looks great. The steps will look very fine and draw the eye inwards to the stone. For asschers smaller than 5.5mm, I''d go with the traditional (and easier to find) 3 step cut. It is less busy on a smaller sized stone and you can see all the steps much better.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/1/2007 4:23:53 PM
Author: sera

Yes. When I was briefly reconsidering a ring without an Asscher, I looked into that stone. They really look stunning and it is VERY tempting.

Because I really like the ring I posted- the Martin Flyer with the Asscher side stones set at a ''diamond angle'' rather than a ''square angle,'' I was (and am) contemplating a Square H&A or a RB H&A as a center stone with Asscher sides. It seems that might solve some problems... I think (correct me if I''m wrong) that I could get a slightly larger, nice looking H&A for less than a decent center Asscher.

A round will give you the most bang for your buck. The square H&A are pricey, and face up smaller, similar to Asschers, but are more unique than a round.

If you''re trying to get the most out of your budget, a round center would probably be best. If you just want unique, a square H&A with Asscher sides would be different and very lovely.