Sooner or later it was bound to happen

[colormyworld]

Here is some interesting reading.

http://themelis.com/Gem-new.html

 

[colormyworld]

Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if this could help explain how some ebay vendors can sell for much less than normal market prices?

 

[JewelFreak]

What a nightmare if this is true. Unfortunately right, CMW, bound to happen eventually. I only hope he's hyping his "fabulous" new method & it's not as perfect & undetectable as he says. Depressing, growl.

--- Laurie

 

[LD]

Well looking at the stones he has for sale that he's treated, they're not spectacular but they do represent stones that you see on Ebay a lot. Having said that, he doesn't give "before" photos so it's difficult to judge how successful this process is in terms of improving the look of the gemstone. I guess these stones may well flood the market (if they haven't already done so) in the future.

 

[T L]

Thanks for the article CMW. Ugh, soon my collecting days will be over. The GRS report on that site is scary to say the least.

 

[Arcadian]

Thank you, this is much appreciated.

-A

 

[movie zombie]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

 

[Aoife]

This is just depressing.

 

[Michael_E]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

I agree and that's what makes this something of a non-event. Turning a really ugly stone into a marginal stone is a good thing for those who are not concerned about treatments and just want something colorful and relatively inexpensive, but would have little effect on those buying stones with greater clarity than those shown. From the looks of it, this would be an easy treatment to pick up with nothing more than a microscope. I think that it's a good thing for some, (since the durability is good), and should mean nothing for those wanting better quality goods.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

Seriously..

 

[davi_el_mejor]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

agreed!

 

[minousbijoux]

I would like to see what it does to a better quality stone - and I agree with LovingDiamonds about the before and afters.

 

[Pandora II]

What a nightmare if this is true. Unfortunately right, CMW, bound to happen eventually. I only hope he's hyping his "fabulous" new method & it's not as perfect & undetectable as he says. Depressing, growl.

--- Laurie

Doubtful - he's a researcher rather than a producer. Possibly the foremost expert in gemstone treatments world-wide.

I had the chance to go to a weekend seminar he was holding on treatments in corundum last year. Sadly I couldn't take more than one day away from Daisy that week and so opted for the Gem-A conference instead. I got to see Christopher P. Smith from AGL speak there which was great but I was really torn. With any luck he'll do another one before too long.

 

[Arkteia]

Nothing is horrible as long as the prices of his stones reflect the "treatment" factor. I have a feeling that currently it is a hype, something in this ad reminds me of "as seen on TV" products, but with time the method may improve and become a serious problem. And since the treatment is hard to detect, they will be selling treated stones at the price of untreated...

 

[Arcadian]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

I can agree with that .

but about this part:
Stability-durability. The following tests perfomed ion heat-treated rubies, sapphires, spinels and grossulars: Display case, Heat, Jewelry repairs, Setting, Immersion in pickling solution, Prongs re-tipping, Exposure to aggressive solutions, Exposure to household chemicals, Ultrasonic cleaning, Hot steaming, Rhodium plating. After tests, no color alteration is noted on corundum, spinels , tourmalines. No special handling is required. Garnets and zircons behave in the same manner like their untreated counterparts.

Here's what he didn't add in and a concern I have...what what happens if the stone is recut or repolished after this type of treatment is applied. Around here (meaning around pricescope), having a stone recut so that it does look better isn't much of a big deal especially if it looks like decent/good material. So I do wonder if the treatment would be detected then?

-A

 

[Pandora II]

If the treatment is effecting the lattice then it won't matter if you recut the stone as the treatment is through all the material not just the surface.

Ted Themilis sells stones as research samples to labs and gemmologists not as gemstones for setting. He is the guy who works on methods of detecting these treatments.

 

[cellentani]

personally, i don't find any of those stones attractive despite being "enhanced".....

MoZo

I agree and that's what makes this something of a non-event. Turning a really ugly stone into a marginal stone is a good thing for those who are not concerned about treatments and just want something colorful and relatively inexpensive, but would have little effect on those buying stones with greater clarity than those shown. From the looks of it, this would be an easy treatment to pick up with nothing more than a microscope. I think that it's a good thing for some, (since the durability is good), and should mean nothing for those wanting better quality goods.

Michael, given that they don't give exact details about the treatment (other than it's some type of cookery with additives), and they claim that the new treatment is difficult to detect with "classic gemological instruments," can you expound on what exactly you'd look for? Plus, even though we know there's heat involved in the process, they give such a broad range of temperatures, that even looking for the effects of heat on certain types of inclusions would be inconclusive.

I hope you're right about this treatment being reserved for only lower quality, or previously unmarketable stones.

 

[Arcadian]

If the treatment is effecting the lattice then it won't matter if you recut the stone as the treatment is through all the material not just the surface.

Ted Themilis sells stones as research samples to labs and gemmologists not as gemstones for setting. He is the guy who works on methods of detecting these treatments.

Thanks Pandora, you've certainly answered the question(s) I had.

-A

 

[Richard M.]

Ted Themilis sells stones as research samples to labs and gemmologists not as gemstones for setting. He is the guy who works on methods of detecting these treatments.

Ted's now selling direct to the consumer market: see the announcement on his home page.

He appears to be very angry at the gem trade and seems almost at the point of trying to undermine it by creating even greater consumer anxiety and suspicions about undisclosed treatments of stones sold by traditional sources. Note his proprietary treatment disclosure document on the home page. He had a very grumpy rant on his site about a year ago to the general effect of forecasting the end of the colored stone business due to treatments. Meanwhile he seems to be playing both ends against the middle, trying in every way possible to profit from the very trend he helped create.

Hopefully he'll soon do a better job of explaining what he's up to. I'm more than a little disgusted with the guy's approach to this matter. There are plenty of ethical sellers who stand to be badly hurt if his new process lives up to his hype.

Richard M.

 

[Pandora II]

Ted Themilis sells stones as research samples to labs and gemmologists not as gemstones for setting. He is the guy who works on methods of detecting these treatments.

Ted's now selling direct to the consumer market: see the announcement on his home page.

He appears to be very angry at the gem trade and seems almost at the point of trying to undermine it by creating even greater consumer anxiety and suspicions about undisclosed treatments of stones sold by traditional sources. Note his proprietary treatment disclosure document on the home page. He had a very grumpy rant on his site about a year ago to the general effect of forecasting the end of the colored stone business due to treatments. Meanwhile he seems to be playing both ends against the middle, trying in every way possible to profit from the very trend he helped create.

Hopefully he'll soon do a better job of explaining what he's up to. I'm more than a little disgusted with the guy's approach to this matter. There are plenty of ethical sellers who stand to be badly hurt if his new process lives up to his hype.

Richard M.

Wow, when did he start that one?

ETA: Have you read his book on Beryllium treatments Rick? If so is it worth getting (from a gemmological rather than consumer point of view)?

 

[Michael_E]

Michael, given that they don't give exact details about the treatment (other than it's some type of cookery with additives), and they claim that the new treatment is difficult to detect with "classic gemological instruments," can you expound on what exactly you'd look for?

The use of flux in two of his images indicates that this process is being used on stones with surface reaching fractures and so looking for healed fractures would be a good way to start. Those "crumb like" inclusions also don't look like something which I would consider natural and would at least draw further attention to this type of stone. It might be tough to be positive about a stone being treated, but if the stone in question is of high enough value to concern a person they'd probably be sending it to a lab anyway.

He talks about using solids and gas phase elements to achieve this and so he must be adding something to the stone making the I.D. of that additive or it's carrier something that a better lab, which has access to more advanced techniques like laser ablation spectroscopy and others, could fairly easily I.D. after they had seen a few of these. I just doubt that this type of treatment is going to flood the market with higher end gems that can't be I.D.'d and so it's really more interesting than alarming.

 

[Michael_E]

Hopefully he'll soon do a better job of explaining what he's up to. I'm more than a little disgusted with the guy's approach to this matter.

Richard M.

Maybe planning to hit the market with a handy dandy "treatment tester" , something like the run-up to the introduction of moissanite? Hard to tell, but he'll get a run for his money I imagine. There's more than a few brainiacs at the worlds upper end gem labs that have been pretty good about coming up with ways of determining treatments, (and have the money to burn on new equipment to support that).

 

[LD]

Michael, given that they don't give exact details about the treatment (other than it's some type of cookery with additives), and they claim that the new treatment is difficult to detect with "classic gemological instruments," can you expound on what exactly you'd look for?

The use of flux in two of his images indicates that this process is being used on stones with surface reaching fractures and so looking for healed fractures would be a good way to start. Those "crumb like" inclusions also don't look like something which I would consider natural and would at least draw further attention to this type of stone. It might be tough to be positive about a stone being treated, but if the stone in question is of high enough value to concern a person they'd probably be sending it to a lab anyway.

He talks about using solids and gas phase elements to achieve this and so he must be adding something to the stone making the I.D. of that additive or it's carrier something that a better lab, which has access to more advanced techniques like laser ablation spectroscopy and others, could fairly easily I.D. after they had seen a few of these. I just doubt that this type of treatment is going to flood the market with higher end gems that can't be I.D.'d and so it's really more interesting than alarming.

He's said that his process has been used on both untreated and previously treated gemstones, therefore it's a big jump to say, from photographs that we can separate X from Y. If I understand correctly he's saying that his process is undetectable - however, if a gem has been previously treated presumably that can still be detected OR made less apparent. Since, he's one of the foremost experts in the treatment field and he says his process is undetectable with classical gemological instructments (presumably that includes a microscope) I'd be highly dubious of commenting on his process. However, I stand by my original statement that these gems are not remarkable considering they've been treated.

 

[Richard M.]

Hopefully he'll soon do a better job of explaining what he's up to. I'm more than a little disgusted with the guy's approach to this matter.

Richard M.

Maybe planning to hit the market with a handy dandy "treatment tester" , something like the run-up to the introduction of moissanite?

I think it probably has more to do with setting himself up as the only lab that can detect the new treatment, for a healthy fee of course. His little treatment certificate is the tipoff. Or maybe licensing his "secret" detection process up to other labs. He'll have a short window of opportunity but others will figure out what he's doing fairly soon.