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So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures inside

Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Nice suji! I didn't know "In the Kitchen" exploded, I haven't been on KF for a while, so thanks for the link.

Kenny, I have an Edge Pro Apex with Chocera stones in 400, 1000, and I think 3000. It's cool and and all, but I wish I could sharpen free-hand, which I can't.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

I remember when I took a beginning drawing class.
My teacher said drawing a perfect circle or a straight line freehand is a wonderful goal to work towards your entire life.
You'll never get there, but you can get really really close.

I didn't say it, but I thought to myself . . . "Uhm, I can use a compass to get a perfect circle immediately".

I believe keeping the angle between the blade and the stone constant is an essential part of getting the best edges.
The human body is not a good tool for drawing perfectly straight lines, perfect circles or maintaining a perfect angle while moving something.

You can spend a lifetime working towards that or maintain perfectly constant angles immediately using a jig. (BTW, there are cheaper ones than EdgePro.)
Plus some knives are intended to have beveled edges at two angles.
A system that keeps angles constant and repeatable is invaluable for those knives.

Kudos to the hand sharpeners (seriously I also respect the romance of the lifelong effort of freehanding a perfect circle or drawing a straight line), but I have other things to do with my time, since a tool can do it now.
I read there is still a learning curve with the EdgePro to get the blade scalpel sharp but superb results are not that hard.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Woah, that's one serious kitchen knife! It's gorgeous, too. :bigsmile:
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

That's one gorgeous knife! :love:
My Uncle in London is an antiques dealer his speciality is samurai armor. He has some of the most incredible Katanas and Tachis from the early 1400s and up, I'm in utter awe of the workmanship.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Beautiful, Tristan! That baby is a work of art.

I have 3 Sabatier steel knives & I LOOOOOVE them. They sharpen so perfectly on my sharpening stone & hold their edge so well. Re your advice not to leave a good knife with glop on it while you eat: my mother used to holler about that!!

--- Laurie
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

kenny|1311969637|2980024 said:
I remember when I took a beginning drawing class.
My teacher said drawing a perfect circle or a straight line freehand is a wonderful goal to work towards your entire life.
You'll never get there, but you can get really really close.

I didn't say it, but I thought to myself . . . "Uhm, I can use a compass to get a perfect circle immediately".

I believe keeping the angle between the blade and the stone constant is an essential part of getting the best edges.
The human body is not a good tool for drawing perfectly straight lines, perfect circles or maintaining a perfect angle while moving something.

You can spend a lifetime working towards that or maintain perfectly constant angles immediately using a jig. (BTW, there are cheaper ones than EdgePro.)
Plus some knives are intended to have beveled edges at two angles.
A system that keeps angles constant and repeatable is invaluable for those knives.

Kudos to the hand sharpeners (seriously I also respect the romance of the lifelong effort of freehanding a perfect circle or drawing a straight line), but I have other things to do with my time, since a tool can do it now.
I read there is still a learning curve with the EdgePro to get the blade scalpel sharp but superb results are not that hard.
Click to expand...

Hi Kenny, this is technically right. But there are limitations as well in all systems that are not immediately apparent. When sharpening freehand, you can make corrections to curvature and grind levels, as well as vary pressure and stroke for the portion of the blade that you want to improve. You also decide how far to take the angle and you can make minute changes on the fly. Systems limit some of the things you can do.

I'm glossing over much of what is important here, as I am a sharpening noob. Get an account and ask on Kitchen Knife Forums for the technical differences between systems? They will give you data (which I know is important to you) as well as their experiences as to what the differences are.

Oh, and it is not that difficult to sharpen freehand. There are countless jigs and devices sold at home warestores too that are essentially sharpening guides with fixed or varying angles. I can now do better than all of them (I used to own 3). BUT I have never compared against the edgepro to be fair. Plus I have a new skillset. Plus it is calming and a bit meditative. If you have trouble keeping your mind still and relaxed because it is always buzzing with thoughts, ideas etc - you'll be amazed how quiet it gets when you are focused on moving a ridiculously sharp piece of steel back and forth with your fingertips.

It is worth a shot with a King 1K/6K if that doesn't work for you, it isn't a big investment down the drain.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

JulieN|1311968878|2980009 said:
Nice suji! I didn't know "In the Kitchen" exploded, I haven't been on KF for a while, so thanks for the link.

Kenny, I have an Edge Pro Apex with Chocera stones in 400, 1000, and I think 3000. It's cool and and all, but I wish I could sharpen free-hand, which I can't.
Click to expand...

:wavey: Hello to a felly knifenut! :bigsmile: Yeah the forum is still there, but it is frankly a pale shadow of what it was. Anyway all the heavyweights from way back when plus most of the smiths moved shop to this new one. It is great that you get to keep seeing the smith's new work and ongoing projects.

But it makes you spend more. :nono:
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

got the look of mokume gane thing going on.......and who doesn't love mokume gane?! swords or jewelry.

love your knife. its not just a tool but a work of art to be appreciated each and every time its in your hand. obviously, i love it.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Wow, I definitely see the beauty in it, Tristan! Gorgeous knife! I actually think some knives are like pieces of art (like yours). My DH is very into cooking and loves his knives. He has a nice set of Shuns and a Kikuchi. I told him about the knife you posted (usually his eyes glaze over when I talk about PS) and he just had to see it right away. Then he asked if he can post a pic of his Kikuchi. LOL!!

Do you have any other collector knives? Great photos, too!!
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Wow, that is stunning. That blade is hypnotic. I am so glad you shared this!

We have a couple of Shun's, including one Ken Onion Chef's knife I bought for DH for Christmas the year before last. I am looking into a knife sharpener for this year.

Now I have to make sure DH doesn't see this thread... a custom knife is now on the list of possible surprises for his birthday next year. No ivory though, I'm sure I couldn't afford it.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

kelpie|1311964172|2979944 said:
TristanC|1311963410|2979928 said:
kelpie|1311962743|2979917 said:
A stone is more than fine. There are natural japanese stones mined hundreds of years ago that sell for $30,000 for the size of a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

My initial reaction was: WHAT? 30k for a stone?

But wait a minute....if I had a spare 30k a stone is exactly what I'd spend it on, and it'd be quite a bit smaller than a brick.
Click to expand...

:lol: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:

(I love your knife, Tristan. Seriously. I appreciate many fine things but can buy just a few!)
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Tristan many of the limitations you brought up are addressed by experienced EP, EdgePro, users.
They idea with the EP is not just just grind away without thought or care.
A lot is written about how to finesse the stone and move the blade itself to compensate for blade curvature and how to handle the tip well.

Like you said every system has it drawbacks.

Also when you say freehand is not that hard I'm sure you are right.
The thing is people vary and I'm not a "good enough" kind of person; I'm an OCD perfectionist when I want to be on certain things and how sharp I can get my knife WILL be one wonderful application for my disorder. :wacko:

A blade is not "sharp" at one "good enough" point and dull before that.
It is a constant progression towards the ultimate - A set of German kitchen scalpel blades.
That's what appeals to me.
If I went the freehand route would always be bothered though by wondering if I could have gotten even better results with a jig.
I also use a ruler and a compass when I want to draw straight lines or perfect circles.
Tools are good.

I'm sure you are also right about the zen thing, but I think I could zen at a constant angle too. :D
I've read many users state that the ultimate results are by no means automatic even with the EP.
It takes practice.

I'm having so much fun reading this new forum the KKF.
Thanks for turning me onto it.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

kenny|1311990419|2980239 said:
Tristan many of the limitations you brought up are addressed by experienced EP, EdgePro, users.
They idea with the EP is not just just grind away without thought or care.
A lot is written about how to finesse the stone and move the blade itself to compensate for blade curvature and how to handle the tip well.

Like you said every system has it drawbacks.

Also when you say freehand is not that hard I'm sure you are right.
The thing is people vary and I'm not a "good enough" kind of person; I'm an OCD perfectionist when I want to be on certain things and how sharp I can get my knife WILL be one wonderful application for my disorder. :wacko:

A blade is not "sharp" at one "good enough" point and dull before that.
It is a constant progression towards the ultimate - A set of German kitchen scalpel blades.
That's what appeals to me.
If I went the freehand route would always be bothered though by wondering if I could have gotten even better results with a jig.
I also use a ruler and a compass when I want to draw straight lines or perfect circles.
Tools are good.

I'm sure you are also right about the zen thing, but I think I could zen at a constant angle too. :D
I've read many users state that the ultimate results are by no means automatic even with the EP.
It takes practice.

I'm having so much fun reading this new forum the KKF.
Thanks for turning me onto it.
Click to expand...

Hope to see you in the ranks of the knifenuts someday Kenny :)) your photography skills will be appreciated there too.

I fully understand what you mean. I'm that way too with the OCD. But if you realise one thing from what you're saying - you won't get OCD perfect results until you finish the learning curve for the edgepro - and it isn't as small a curve as you think. And freehanding isn't as big a curve as you think too. So one question is why put time into learning something that can also be done another way (freehand)? It is ultimately a personal preference. There really is no wrong or right.

Food for thought. Professional sharpeners use wheels/rotating whetstones plus freehand but they go through tons of knives per day. Factories use angled machined jigs and lasers and go through thousands of knives per day. Very few professional sharpeners would use a jig for their business. I always look to the people that make a living from the skill before deciding which way to attempt. Architects use rulers and compass too.

I also know that if I keep at it, I keep improving. That improvement is extremely satisfying. I also agree tools are cool, sharpening stones come in all sorts. And they all provide different feedback. If you appreciate the minute differences in things, you'll appreciate the OCD variety available too. Hey, more toys to play with. :bigsmile:

Really good freehanders will put sharpness, plus polish, plus graduation and whatever bells and whistles you want like microbevels etc on the edge if you need it (most knifenuts just go primary bevel just because). Edgepro fans will say the same: but many who achieve amazing results also wish they can do freehand. The reverse is rarely true. If you're not shy about anonymity, jump on in and make the edgepro question your first post :wavey:
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Gypsy|1311990096|2980237 said:
Wow, that is stunning. That blade is hypnotic. I am so glad you shared this!

We have a couple of Shun's, including one Ken Onion Chef's knife I bought for DH for Christmas the year before last. I am looking into a knife sharpener for this year.

Now I have to make sure DH doesn't see this thread... a custom knife is now on the list of possible surprises for his birthday next year. No ivory though, I'm sure I couldn't afford it.
Click to expand...

You're welcome Gypsy and all the other ladies who think this would be a great gift idea for DH come birthday/christmas time. I say if he's proud of his knives, and or he's proud of his cooking... a custom knife would be a fabulous idea. And from a guy's viewpoint - which guy has ever grown so old that he doesn't love new toys? When the time comes, keep the link to the smith, or the forum and ask for ideas. Good luck!

Oh, the ivory isn't much more expensive. You'll realise if you shop for kitchen knives from serious smiths, they charge you for the steel and length. The handle is just one fixed cost. It is the blade that is everything.

The handle is just functional art. Beautiful, but secondary to the smithing process. I will say that the handle I have is lovely though :bigsmile:
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

That is really beautiful. I love it when functional items are given a beautiful form. If I had a knife like that, I could be persuaded to spend more time in the kitchen!
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

I am NOT into knives but holy moly that is beautiful in so many ways!!!!!!
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

I LOVE knives and that is fabulous - just showed it to my husband who is all jealous.

He bought me a 33-fold Damascus Kengata from Shun for my 33rd birthday and a Yanagiba for Christmas. Since then we have been hooked... I bought him the damascus steak-knife set and I managed to score 50% off the paring knife last month.

I shop at the Japanese Knife Company in London which is a fantastic store to visit - they also run knife skills courses. Although Shun aren't even near the best, the shape and heft are right for me so I'm sticking with them.

Decent knives have always been one of my bugbears - we went away on holiday 3 weeks ago and I took my own knives with me just in case there wasn't a decent one there. :rolleyes: At home we started with Sabatier, but the difference between them and the Shun is just incredible - although if you can get hold of the old Sabatier they are so much better, the company making them today do not produce them the same way or to the same standard in terms of materials.

It's my birthday next week and husband is probably buying me a knife block if we can find the right one. Due to very small London-sized kitchen and 2 year-old daughter having a rack isn't practical. At the moment each knife lives in it's own box - and the yanagiba has a sheath as well - which is a pain when I want to cook.

My father taught me to hand sharpen on a steel as a child and I have an insane horror of those things you pull knives through - the difference between my 10 year-old Sabatiers and my husband's 10 year-old ones is huge and due I am convinced to my using a steel and him using a block thing - his are worn away, mine are not.

For the Japanese knives I use a stone though as they rarely need to be sharpened.

Any suggestions on storage?
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Hi Pandora, gosh this forum is rife with knife people!

Shuns are great knives in their own right. and the 33 folds for your birthday is incredibly knife geek and sweet!

Please forgive me for saying though, but for identical money you can probably get better knives than Shun if you went online. When I got my first Globals, I babied them and thought they were the bee's knees! Nowadays I loan them out to be abused to convert people to a new style of thinking - WMF & Henckles aren't necessarily the best in the world. Just the best in the department store.

If they come back damaged, I can still repair them on the stones. Usually.

Custom knife makers are sometimes pricey but oh so worth it. Japanese knives too are very interesting and not necessarily expensive. Do check out Pierre's site if you want something special. Please tell your DH not to be jealous - also, you now have an excellent special gift idea for him this year or the next ;) Pierre does amazing work.

Non Custom Hand forged japanese knives are great from here: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/products.html He ships priority EMS worldwide for only US$7 from Japan on any order (I know, making a loss from his own margin. Good man). Very good selection. Many of these are made for the Japanese professional chef market. I recommend Masamoto as a good higher middle starting point.

Also check out Korin: http://korin.com/site/home.html

You'll see very impressive knives you can get for Shun money as well, because they don't have retail points to pay for etc etc. Just like online diamond vendors.

For the knife block, there are artisans who can custom make a block for you, in the wood of your choice. Let me know if you are interested, I'll give the craftsman a heads up on your behalf. Korin (linked above) has lovely knife racks that display knives as well, easy to reach and in the open.

Or if you have a adult kitchen area and no young uns, magblocks are very popular and convenient with chefs in their homes: http://benchcrafted.com/Magblok.html It looks creepy, but the knives never fall off.

Thanks for all the nice comments from everyone - you too Mrs Jam. :wink2:
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Thanks, will go through all the links and have a look. I definitely know I can do better than Shun (although I've always had quite good deals on mine - the steak knife set had been sitting in the same store for 3 years - not the JKC - and so I got a massive discount when I finally offered to take them off their hands. :bigsmile: ) but my issue is finding ones that I can feel - heft and handle shape are high on my list of requirements - and that is very tricky online.

Great idea on a possible bespoke block. Are blocks good for knives? What is the recommended optimum method of storage? The Magblock is sadly out due to lack of wall space and a kid...
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

I like blocks where I slide in the blade horizontally.

On the EP, I guess the learning curve to getting a decent edge is shorter than freehand. However, to get a superlative edge on the EP is not easy at all, and now I buy knives with "ease of sharpening" in mind before most other things. Heck, I've sent a knife to Dave at D&R, and I thought what I got back was just "ok."
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Julie, what is D&R?

Pandora, what is JKC?

Tristan, what's WMF and EMS?
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

I'm not surprised there are so many owners of fine knives here. The people here definitely appreciate craftsmanship and know if you buy the right thing the first time it will save you money in the long run, that applies to most areas of life.

Can I threadjack to ask some advice? I'm doing everything with my Shun Classic 3.5" paring and I'm thrilled with the quality (having only entry-level henckels and faberware to compare it to) however things like cabbage and pumpkins it's just not long enough for.

*What's a good all-purpose knife for a vegetarian to fill in where the paring can't?
*Will I be astouded by the additional utility if i get a set?
*Can I get a better value/quality knife than the below in the sub $150 range?

http://www.amazon.com/Shun-DM0701-Classic-Utility-Knife/dp/B0000Y7KFY/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_b

*Y'all will probably laugh, but is there a vegetable peeler that does for peeling what japanese steel has done for my home cooking? I peel just about everything because vegetables from the markets here come covered in filth and tropical bateria.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Darn you Tristan. :angryfire:
Now I'm thinking of getting a Japanese knife.
Why did you have to introduce me to these expensive specialized things?
What have I ever done to you? ;)

I'm thinking of an 8" chef, and a paring knife.
I'd like to select them with the intention of them being the only knives I will buy because I notice those are 90% of what I've used in the past.
I am certainly no gourmet sushi chef.
I just want to have an orgasm cutting a paper a tomato into tissue paper-thin slices with no force and minimum movement - just by placing the knife near the tomato.
I don't want to pay for anything custom or a prestigious name or any expensive handle material or design.
How beautiful, cool or impressive the blade looks means nothing to me. (NOW I say that! :roll: )
I just want function, as in the finest sharpest blade forged from the finest steel, that will stay sharp as long as possible.
I don't care about susceptibility to rust since, even though I'm accustomed to stainless steel knives, I'm willing to care for a high-carbon hard steel knife properly, obsessively even.

I am totally ignorant about all those shapes of japanese blades and handles.
What are the pluses and minuses of the blades that are beveled only on one side?
I see some 8" chefs that have a curve to the blade like I'm used to and others are straight.
Many handles on even expensive Japanese knives look very non-ergonomic - and just like an uncomfortable straight cylinder. :confused:
I don't want to buy one knife and learn I should have bought another.
I also don't want to just buy something similar to what I'm used to; I want to have an open mind.
Do you know of any Youtube tutorials on using these knives or an overview of shapes and types of Japanese knives?
I'm reading Kitchen Knife Forum but unlike Pricescope they don't have Advanced Tutorial to introduce noobs.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

That is a really fascinating forum.

Apparently blue patina on Japanese knives is desirable, and people can and do force it?! Just as valuable as patina on an antique ring...


They really do need some newbie tutorials though!
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Kenny:

D&R is a mail-order sharpening service, specializing in Japanese knives. He's considered to be one of the best.

Knives with bellys are harder to sharpen. Period, EP or freehand. I prefer a very flat geometry, for ease of sharpening as well as performance. If you want to orgasm by making paper thin slices, it is definitely in the sharpening, not the knife...just like your diamonds won't sparkle if they aren't clean. http://youtu.be/6aoQGC1yIlQ All of Saltydog's videos are good.

Handles: if you hold your knives correctly, up near the blade, it doesn't matter if the handle is a "cylinder" or if it's shaped. YOu're not supposed to grip the handle anyway. I really like Hiromoto AS as one step up from entry-level knives; they're not super expensive.

Re. Pandora: JKC Japanese Knife Company

Re. Tristan. WMF is a german home goods company, so I assume german-shaped knives.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

Very interesting- I didn't know that so many people were that interested in knives. Tristan- I will always hand wash knives from this point forward :)
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

kelpie|1312051340|2980615 said:
Can I threadjack to ask some advice? I'm doing everything with my Shun Classic 3.5" paring and I'm thrilled with the quality (having only entry-level henckels and faberware to compare it to) however things like cabbage and pumpkins it's just not long enough for.

*What's a good all-purpose knife for a vegetarian to fill in where the paring can't?
*Will I be astouded by the additional utility if i get a set?
*Can I get a better value/quality knife than the below in the sub $150 range?

http://www.amazon.com/Shun-DM0701-Classic-Utility-Knife/dp/B0000Y7KFY/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_b

*Y'all will probably laugh, but is there a vegetable peeler that does for peeling what japanese steel has done for my home cooking? I peel just about everything because vegetables from the markets here come covered in filth and tropical bateria.
Click to expand...

1. All purpose knife for a vegetarian should be: the nakiri, santoku, or small cleaver.
2. You need one all purpose, one small, and a long slicer around 10" is optional...for your large pumpkins and watermelons.
3. That Shun 6" utility is not bad for the price, I've seen it for $95 which is ridiculous. but I personally would go for longer santoku, nakiri, or cleaver. The extra height is better for slicing, so that you have space for your knuckles! I mean if you do everything with a paring knife, your technique is probably adapted to that... but it's not very ideal. I really can't imagine slicing onion or celery with a paring knife or utility knife...... But if you really want to use a 6 inch utility as an all purpose, there is the Alton's Angle http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009K94N0/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0006HRPBY&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0FSS0CFWD00QPYWAK3TY

This isn't bad... http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

For all-purpose I prefer a Gyuto over the Santoku.

I have the 9cm vegetable knife from the Shun Damascus range which is great for slicing up small vegetables, I'm currently using the 8" Kengata (a type of gyuto) as a main knife but may look for something around the 6" length for the future - if you want to cut up big vegetables then the 8" is ideal but can be a bit cumbersome when you are slicing tomatoes (or at least I find it a bit too big for my comfort - all depends on what feels right in your hand, hence why I don't buy knives online).

So, I would go with a small vegetable knife, possibly a paring knife and one or two different lengths of general purpose.
 
Re: So I just commissioned a kitchen knife... Pictures insid

No altons angle please. I'm out now, will be back to add to the posts. I'm happy for threadjacks ;)
 
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