LiW So confused!

[chocolatefudge]

I know!! I was thinking the same thing Smurfy! Leave them in alone to think about how lovely we are and how they should be nicer to us!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/25/2008 4:33:05 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
I agree with what you are saying TGal and I want to kick myself!! I would honestly be thinking the same thing about someone else in my situation but the truth is I don''t know if I could walk away!! I don''t want to walk away, but at the same time I think maybe a shock would be good for him. I will have to see what he says tomorrow. Or I may try tonight when he gets home if it isn''t too late.

Yeah...I know and sympathize. It''s harder to do it when you''re in it. That''s a universal truth for everyone.

But trust me...if it''s hard now, it''s even harder to do when you''re married and/or if you have kids. Tougher to move out when you have more baggage...

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 3/25/2008 4:21:52 PM
Author: TravelingGal
You can drill and kill all you want, but at the end of the day, you cannot make anyone do anything they don''t want to do.

Someone who jerks around with your emotion like this is TOXIC. Do you really want that in your life? Don''t you think you deserve better?

When TGuy had cold feet about moving here a few years ago, I was devastated. It was so tough to think about ''starting over'' and I was nearly 32 at the time and ready to settle down. I cried for a bit that night and the next night when he called because he promised to check up on me, I just simply said, I love you, want you to be happy so you have to do what you gotta do. I love me too, so I gotta move on and do what is right for me. End of story.

He still says my reaction was an eye opener for him. Someone who could move on with her own life because her OWN life is the ONLY thing she has control over. And the fact that I wanted him to be happy, whatever that meant. He changed his mind that week and now we of course are married.

I fully realize that it''s a lot easier not to beat a dead horse in the situation I had because what was I going to do? Show up on his doorstep in Australia? Stalk him with phone calls mercilessly? But at the end of the day, my integrity is important to me, and I would not let someone affect me in a way that would make me really miserable.

Telling you he doesn''t want to marry you because he was in a ''bad mood'' is just mean and practically abusive, IMHO. What a mind f*ck. Things only ''seem'' fine now because *he''s* happier. Well, what happens when he goes back to being in a bad mood again? And as for a ''chat'', I''d just simply say, if you don''t want to get married, that is fine. I do. And right now I am my number one priority so I have to find a way to move on.'' And I''d MOVE ON. Yeah, easier said than done, but I''d rather be out on a wide open road wondering where it leads than stuck at a dead end facing a wall.

Ladies, some of you give way too much power to your SOs when it comes to your life and your future. It''s YOUR life and the sooner you show your SO''s that you mean business about that, the sooner you will be happier and healthier in the long run.

This is stated perfectly. I agree 150% with TGal, ESPECIALLY when she states that "you give way too much power to your SO''s when it comes to your life and your future."

I was in a similar situation, Chocolate, I had dated DH since we were young, we''d lived together for nearly 7 years and he was very comfortable with our situation. His feelings towards marriage would shift as well and when I brought it up he''d say that I was pressuring, that he was too unhappy to want marriage, etc. At the time he felt that they were justified reasons. Only after I left did he see his "reasons" for what they were: EXCUSES!

When I told him I was leaving he lashed out and told me that obviously our relationship was not as important to me as marriage. I responded "No, it isn''t." And that was the truth. He said that my response to that stayed with him for a long time and that when I left, it really opened his eyes to see how selfish HE was. And of course at that point wild horses couldn''t have stopped him from proposing, even if I rejected him flat out.

The problem with your situation isn''t just that you''re starting to feel overcooked and it''s leading to some bitterness, it''s that you know you''re not to the point where you''re ready to leave, so there isn''t a ton you can do. You either have to say "I''m willing to give this relationship until xx date" and try to back off of marriage or you can keep beating a dead horse and get frustrated that it''s not working. I''m not saying you shouldn''t discuss it, but at this point because it''s so tense and you''re both emotional, I would back off for a bit. If you know that you''re willing to give it 9 more months, then waiting a few weeks until things cool off and you can have a more calm conversation about it isn''t so bad.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Date: 3/25/2008 3:34:32 PM
Author: PugLover
Brooklyngirl and Kayakqueen you girls hit the nail right on the head! If he wants to propose NOTHING will stop him. And don''t mean to threadjack but Brooklyngirl what did your bf say were his concerns when you were in this situation? He was just unsure about marriage in general? or marrying you in particular?

PL, this situation went on for 2 years before we got engaged. First it was I thought about it a little, and I am not ready. Then it was I have to decide if I want to marry you (that lasted for all of a day, and then he apologized profusely, saying that he didn''t mean it and I put him on the spot, and he blurted out something stupid). After that it was I feel like everyone is pressuring me and that if I do decide to do it, it will feel like I did it because you and other people were telling me to, so I want some time of you not talking about it, so that I can think and know that I came to this decision on my own. At that point I gave him 6 months and was pretty good (as can be reasonably expected of someone with a strong need to "express myself" especially when I am ticked off about something) at keeping my mouth shut.

In the meantime, to keep my sanity I planned my exit, and decided that by mid February, when Fi goes on his annual week long ski trip with the boys, I will get my stuff out of the house and move to a corporate apartment. The drama did not end until he proposed a week ago. Up until that time he was convinced I wouldn''t come home one day.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Date: 3/25/2008 3:57:22 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Ok girls, I think it''s time for another chat. He''s out tonight so think it will be tomorrow. It never seems to go right though he always says things that make me lose my thread!! Things like,

''Do I have to tell you the exact time and day??''
''I don''t know when it will happen!''

If I say I''m bringing it up because of what he said before he just says, ''I told you, I didn''t mean it I was just in a bad mood.''

What do I say to all these things???? He really does not seem keen on a timeline at all.

Chocolate if it makes you feel better to know the exact time and day then say YES, I want to know exactly when. And if you don''t know when it will happen then figure it out.

In all seriousness, the point is that he needs to be honest with you, whatever the case may be. Obvoiusly you don''t need to know exact moment it will happen, but this whole "It has to be a surprise" BS is ridiculous and is often used as an excuse. If he mentions that as his reason for not telling you call him on his bs. If he really wants to marry you, he will do whatever he can to calm you down.

As far as the bad mood bit, TOO BAD. Actions have consequences, as do words. A bad mood doesn''t give anyone the right to take it out on someone else, and in such a cruel way too. He needs to make it up to you because it''s damn hurtful.

I agree with NEL, that you''re in such a rut because you aren''t ready to leave the relationship, and have no control as a result. But I must say, a wakeup call might be just the right kick in the pants!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/25/2008 12:29:29 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 3/25/2008 12:22:27 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Saying things about if I loved him how could I leave just because he didn''t want to get married.

Um, what?

You''re joking. Did he actually say something that outrageous?

This is actually more tricky than it seems.

FI said the same thing to me many times - "why if you love me enough to want to marry me would you walk away because of some piece of paper?"

He still doesn''t like the idea of getting married - he put loads of effort into the proposal, which made me happier, but the first words I said were: "Oh my god have I bullied you into this?" Not very romantic I know...

We were talking about this only the other day when we were discussing a PS thread - he said that he could feel that he had compromised his needs and desires to make me happy by getting married, or I would have compromised mine to agree to not get married. Either way one of us comes off worse.

FI has a huge problem with marriage due to his parents divorce, which involved splitting up the entire family including the 4 brothers and then having to deal with new partners etc etc, so his role models are not exactly ideal. Whereas I come from a family where my parents adore each other.

In the end you have to reach a compromise - FI compromised as he felt I wanted to be married more than he didn''t want to be, and that I wasn''t worth losing. I respect that it was a HUGE thing for him to do and that he really struggled with his issues over it.

So it''s not necessarily an outrageous thing to say - depending on the level of thought and reason that is behind it.

What is outrageous is that he is leading you on by sending mixed messages. I always knew VERY clearly how FI felt and he never gave me cause to think he might feel otherwise (Yup, the proposal nearly gave me a heart attack).

It is entirely unfair to say one thing one day and another the next.

I would think seriously about moving out - I know it''s a horrific prospect, even the thought of packing bags makes one feel sick... but, I think you need to find out now where this relationship is heading. You have been together long enough for him to decide.

If you stay in this limbo, you will grow to resent him - time for a serious talk me thinks.

HUGS to you - I know EXACTLY how it feels when a man says something like that. It''s not even "I don''t want to marry YOU" which is at least a concrete answer.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 3/25/2008 3:27:44 PM
Author: Kayakqueen83
I just want to say that I completely agree with brooklyngirl. If he wants to propose to you, wild horses wont be able to stop him from doing so. Don't stifle yourself because of what you hope he will do. That will only lead to disappointment. Stand up for what you want and talk to him. You should never feel guilty or wrong with wanting to feel secure in your relationship.

i know that this thread has gone in a different direction, but i just wanted to throw out there that that statement isn't necessarily true....

i think that it is totally possible for a man to be ready to propose but to be feeling so much pressure from his gf that he's unsure whether or not it's what HE really wants because of all the pressure, or he might even feel resentful that he's not being allowed to enjoy a time that he should have a right to enjoy too, either of which might delay a proposal. i know it's an ultra romantic notion, but i think that we can let ourselves get carried away....of course i don't think you should keep it all in, but maybe not let it ALL hang out either of course that's not every guy, i'm just throwing that out there

either way i hope that you have a good talk with him and are honest with both him and yourself and you wake up tomorrow feeling better about the whole thing

 

[FrekeChild]

{{HUGS}}

I think that you need a plan. And I think that the next time you talk to him, you need to leave emotion at the door. Pretend it''s a business transaction or a work/school presentation, because things always get out of control when you get emotional. In lots of ways it IS a business transaction, the merging of two companies. And if those two companies can''t compromise, come to a joint decision or find common ground...

I know how you feel in a lot of ways. I think all LIW do. But just know that we are all here for you. You''ve gotten some great advice, and these ladies have said a lot of things that WE ALL need to consider at some time or another.

We''re here for you.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Chocolate, I think you''ve gotten a lot of great advice on here so I won''t have much to add.

I just wanted to say one thing: I really do think that sometimes a person can say something, whether they meant it or not, that they can''t really take back. And I think others are sort of alluding to it with their statements like: yes maybe you didn''t mean it, but it hurt.

Perhaps your boyfriend should remember to take some caution to what he says, because if it''s something you''ll always remember... then it''s damaged your relationship a little.

i remember a nails in a door analogy from this site... anybody?

 

[chocolatefudge]

Well we had a talk and things seem worse than ever!!

There''s something that I didn''t mention before that I will tell you about now. As some of you can remember I said on a different thread some weeks ago that my SO wanted us to buy a house. Well after the horrible argument last week I began to feel guilty that maybe I had been going on nonstop about him proposing and as he seemed so unhappy I wanted to do something to make him happy. I told him that we would start looking at houses and he got really excited!! Now I know what you are going to say to me, that I shouldn''t buy a house until I have more commitment from him (we rent at the moment) and tht if we aren''t really happy at the moment we shouldn''t buy a house. Anyway he was really excited about it and we had arranged to go to the bank to sort out how much we could have for mortgage. And that''s when I realised that we will be even further away from getting married if we get a house!! It''s going to be really expensive and saving up for an engagement ring and a wedding will be near impossible! And that''s why I decided I needed to talk to him last night before things went any further.

When he came home I was really calm and just said that we needed to talk about things and he seemed ok about it. I told him that I was worrying about getting the house and that I didn''t think a proposal could be anywhere in the near future because of it. He was really nice and agreed with me that we probably couldn''t do house and wedding at the same time because we just couldn''t afford it. I told him that if we got engaged pretty soon then we could plan the wedding for July/August 2009 as we would probably just have enough time to save up (I have to get married during summer holidays as I''m a teacher and can''t get time off.) He sort of agreed and I said that that would mean having to get engaged quite soon. I said that if I didn''t mention it again would he be able to sort it out. By this point he was REALLY annoying me because he wasn''t listening properly. The tv was on and he kept watching behind my shoulder and stuff and not really looking at me! When I switched the tv off and asked if he was listening he was like, "Yeah." Then I hit him on the shoulder with the remote control, just in like a jokey way to wake him up, and he got up and went mad and said if I was being violent he wasn''t talking anymore and went to bed!

I went up and said I was upset because I felt like I was forcing him into a proposal and that having to spell it out to him when it had to happen wasn''t how I imagined it at all. He said I wasn''t forcing him and he would never ask until he was ready. Then he said he was sick of me changing my mind and why did I get him all excited about buying a house if I want to get engaged instead now. I told him that I''d always wanted to get engaged first and he knew that and I just wanted to make him happy after what he''d said to me. Then he went mad asking why I kept bringing up that argument when he told me he didn''t mean it and why do I only remember the bad stuff he says to me and never the good? He said he didn''t want me to keep doing things to try to make him happy and I should forget everything that he said.

By this point it was all getting out of control and he pretended to go to sleep. This morning he didn''t kiss me goodbye when he left for work (he didn''t know I was awake but he always does it!)

I don''t know what to do!!! He tells me he does want to get married but I don''t feel like he does!! Why did I ever talk about getting the house?? Everything is going wrong We''ve always been soooooo happy until all this

 

[bee*]

I''m really sorry to hear that things have gotten worse. I really urge you not to buy a house with him until there is a commitment there. I''m not trying to be harsh, but I just don''t get the impression that he is going to propose anytime soon. It sounds like he lashes out in silly ways when you''re trying to have a conversation (ie the way he acted when you tapped him on the shoulder or pretending to be asleep). I know how hard it would be to just walk away, but I do urge you to at least think about moving out or making some provisions so that you can walk away if things keep getting worse. Sit down an re-evaluate what you want in life and remember that your needs are important. When D and I first talked about engagement, he wanted us to move in first also or think about buying a house, but there was no way that I''d commit to such a bit financial investment with someone who wouldn''t commit to me. He understood and now that we''re engaged and moving in together in a few weeks, he''s glad that we waited too. I think it''s one thing buying a house together when everything''s going great but the fact that there are problems now, I would really not advise buying together.I think until you take a step in the right direction *for you*, then things are going to continue like that. And as you''ve said in a previous post, I know that it''s so easy for me to sit here and type this.

 

[Delster]

Chocolatefudge I'm sorry you're having a rough ride of it lately. I think you really need to take back control of your life. The way you describe things, it seems like the relationship is all about him! Seriously sit down and work out what your goals and dreams are and then think about whether he is helping you to achieve those, or hindering you. What you are currently doing is attempting to bargain him into giving you what you want (marriage) by giving him what he wants (buying a house together). You should be able to ask straight up for what you want, and not have to wheedle for it.

I agree with bee that buying property together without a solid commitment may not be wise. For me, that might not have to be an engagement, but personally I would want a solid timeline for engagement and marraige - yes, one with an end date!

I also think that conversations where the TV is on don't count as serious conversations. Same thing goes for if one party thinks it's OK to just up and leave if the discussion gets painful. Nothing will get resolved unless your attention is on the conversation 1000% and there's no backing out of it until it's resolved. It might help to set up a time with him to discuss all of this, with no holds barred. In my experience a lot of men don't like the idea of coming back to a topic many times to sort it out piece by piece, whereas many women do. I know for myself, talking about something over and over really helps and makes me feel like we've talked about it 'properly', but BF would probably rather have a bikini wax! It might help if he thought he had a day or two to prepare for a calm discussion, and that it wouldn't be 'groundhog day' for months afterward. Obviously he would have to be prepared to talk seriously, no TV, no sniping, no railroading you with a barrage of questions, and no leaving the room if the going gets tough. I could be way off the mark with this suggestion, but I thought I'd put it out there in case it helps.

I hope you can work things out, but remember, you always always always have to put your own welfare first. Take care.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I think you may need to get out, but don''t give up yet. The first thing I would do is for you both to agree to a time to sit down and talk about it when he hasn''t just worked a long day. I know I am not terribly rational after having been out of the house and working for 11 hours.

The second is one my aunt who devotes some of her practice to marriage counciling highly recommends. Oftentimes people become intrenched in their positions and are either unable or unwilling to see the other side. The best advice she has is for each person to come up with WHY they want what they want. If you BF can''t see why getting married matters, he probably doesn''t see the same thing you do. Same with the house, there must be some reason he is so excited about it. Is it possible for him that is a bigger commitment and more "proof" of love than a piece of paper and a party? I think you owe it to yourself to try and if he really loves you he will try as well.

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

If you want to do something to make him happy purchase tickets to his favorite sporting event or a show he wants to see or a concert or something…anything…BUT buying a house with him! That’s too big of a commitment to make especially with a man who just told you he wasn’t happy. Regardless of why he says he made such a statement the other day, he still said it and I’d be leery of making any long term commitments until you two can sort this through.

Instead of focusing entirely on what you want long term from the relationship why don’t you both try and figure out what is happening right now between the two of you? It sounds like you are both sending your fair share of mixed signals to each other. I think you really need to sit down with him without any distractions and find out what he’s feeling. It sounds like you are going back and forth shutting each other out. I think you really need to figure out where he is coming from and then think about tackling the long term goals of your relationship.