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Smaller but better

jyeh74|1340311731|3221286 said:
Christina, I think I narrowed down to two. I would like your advise also. Numbers are vastly different. Goodoldgold and WF is telling me to forget the HCA and AGA and that they are outdated marketing tools, despite what other folks are telling me.

Thread is here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-one.176868/#post-3221283']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-one.176868/#post-3221283[/URL]
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Well, I guess I sort of agree and disagree with them. I agree that when you are shopping in person and can evaluate the stone with your own eyes, that HCA and AGA goes out the window. Your able to tell first hand how the stone performs and can compare it side by side with other stones. However, when you're shopping online and have to narrow down long lists of stones the HCA and AGA become priceless gifts! They help you weed through the never ending lists of stones and establish a short list of diamonds that are predicted to have superior performance. If Jonathon or one of the team at WF recommended a stone to you that didn't score well on either AGA or HCA, then I would totally trust their judgement. I believe that the people pass up gorgeous stones everyday because of what the HCA tells them, but at the end of the day it remains a great tool when you're trying to buy blind online.

Have GOG or WF be able to recommend a stone for you? I really think that the reason your second stone isn't scoring well is because of the high crown angle. I personally really like a high crown and small table because it typically results in lots of colored light. I think that it you had a sarin report on this stone (GIA rounds the percentages on the report) that you would get a more accurate sense of how the stone might perform. That said, I think the safer choice is the first stone that score 1.9. I'm not sure if any of this is helpful to you or not, but if I had to make the choice right now, that's what I would do.
 
I've seen only a handful on JA, WF, Brilliance (very expensive). Nothing has captured my eye yet. Sucks when you have a budget (under$38k) doesn't it? :$$):

Sarah from GOG won't send me any GIA certs. I like to review the certs to see where the inclusions are. I got into the habit of analysis peralysis with HCA and AGA. GOG's policy is that you have to work with them, and they do not send you anything until you buy the diamond. I think this is somewhat a strange policy. All the other online vendors send you their certs. JA even does idealscopes for their customers free of charge.

This amount of money isn't chump change, so I want to be certain. Hopefully, something nice will pop up soon!
 
jyeh74|1340341028|3221646 said:
I've seen only a handful on JA, WF, Brilliance (very expensive). Nothing has captured my eye yet. Sucks when you have a budget (under$38k) doesn't it? :$$):

Sarah from GOG won't send me any GIA certs. I like to review the certs to see where the inclusions are. I got into the habit of analysis peralysis with HCA and AGA. GOG's policy is that you have to work with them, and they do not send you anything until you buy the diamond. I think this is somewhat a strange policy. All the other online vendors send you their certs. JA even does idealscopes for their customers free of charge.

This amount of money isn't chump change, so I want to be certain. Hopefully, something nice will pop up soon!
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^Agreed. That's unfortunate that GOG won't send you anything. Are you talking about something they don't have in house? I always see certs online...
 
jyeh74|1340341028|3221646 said:
I've seen only a handful on JA, WF, Brilliance (very expensive). Nothing has captured my eye yet. Sucks when you have a budget (under$38k) doesn't it? :$$):

Sarah from GOG won't send me any GIA certs. I like to review the certs to see where the inclusions are. I got into the habit of analysis peralysis with HCA and AGA. GOG's policy is that you have to work with them, and they do not send you anything until you buy the diamond. I think this is somewhat a strange policy. All the other online vendors send you their certs. JA even does idealscopes for their customers free of charge.

This amount of money isn't chump change, so I want to be certain. Hopefully, something nice will pop up soon!
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This seems strange to me. Unless they are worried that they will locate the diamond for you and then you will have another vendor call the stone in for you? I can say that Jonathon is very honest and respected. He has a lot of knowledge and will shoot straight with you. I'd also be less concerned about plot on the report looks like and more concerned about what I could see, or not see visually in magnified images of the stone. Often times plots don't even show all of the inclusions, so it may look clean on paper, but actually have inclusions that are not listed. GOG doesn a great job of pointing out the grade making inclusions in their magnified images. I also believe that if he says he has a beauty for you that he means it.

Would you feel comfortable making a decision based on magnified and ideal scope images of the diamond, and not seeing the report, knowing of course that the stone met your criteria for color and clarity? I would be, what the report says, other than color and clarity, is meaningless to me if I can judge the stone visually and have ideal scope images to confirm what I'm seeing. Is GOG charging you to bring in stones to be evaluated? You might also contact ID jewelry online. Many PS have had luck having Yuekitiel locate stones for them.

I would NOT purchase a stone at any price without being able to see images, and a report, so I don't think that you would be out of line insisting that GOG supply these to you before making a decision. I would maybe send them an email and explain your concerns and let them know that you're uncomfortable spending this amount of money on a diamond without having images and a report to consider. If they still insist that the can't supply you with the information, then I would just thank them for their time and work with someone else. But like I said, if it's just a matter of the report and they will show you images of the stone, then I would continue the relationship.
 
jyeh74|1340341028|3221646 said:
I've seen only a handful on JA, WF, Brilliance (very expensive). Nothing has captured my eye yet. Sucks when you have a budget (under$38k) doesn't it? :$$):

Sarah from GOG won't send me any GIA certs. I like to review the certs to see where the inclusions are. I got into the habit of analysis peralysis with HCA and AGA. GOG's policy is that you have to work with them, and they do not send you anything until you buy the diamond. I think this is somewhat a strange policy. All the other online vendors send you their certs. JA even does idealscopes for their customers free of charge.

This amount of money isn't chump change, so I want to be certain. Hopefully, something nice will pop up soon!
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Was there maybe a misunderstanding with Sarah and she thought you mean to scan in actual certs? Can she give you the cert numbers so you can look it up online? I'm sure they'll do idealscopes of your finalists - they very quickly made an awesome video for me of my finalists and that seems like more effort. cc jon@ good old gold on your emails if you're not happy.
 
when dealing with Good Old Gold, you can put a $500 deposit down on the stone and have it sent to an appraiser to look at if you don't want to pay in full.

38k on a ring? :shock: Wow that's crazy. Enough for a down payment on a house
 
TitanCi|1340350458|3221673 said:
jyeh74|1340341028|3221646 said:
I've seen only a handful on JA, WF, Brilliance (very expensive). Nothing has captured my eye yet. Sucks when you have a budget (under$38k) doesn't it? :$$):

Sarah from GOG won't send me any GIA certs. I like to review the certs to see where the inclusions are. I got into the habit of analysis peralysis with HCA and AGA. GOG's policy is that you have to work with them, and they do not send you anything until you buy the diamond. I think this is somewhat a strange policy. All the other online vendors send you their certs. JA even does idealscopes for their customers free of charge.

This amount of money isn't chump change, so I want to be certain. Hopefully, something nice will pop up soon!
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^Agreed. That's unfortunate that GOG won't send you anything. Are you talking about something they don't have in house? I always see certs online...
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Agreed. I see certs on WF, Brilliance, BGD, JA all the time. These were her words exactly:

"We do not give out the actual copy of the GIA certificate until the purchase is made. We are very picky about the dimensions so you can be confident we are looking for a particular table/depth/crown/pavilion combination. We have on our policy page that we do not give out the certificate info until the time of purchase. The reason we had no choice but to follow this is because people would use our knowledge and experience to locate the best available diamond for them and even pay to ship it in and have us run all the scans/video which would confirm it is an awesome diamond. Then they use the exact certificate info to find it on another website that provides zero services that is selling it for $50 less. You can imagine how unfair that is so we have to protect ourselves now no matter how much we feel we can trust someone."
 
GMUAlum08|1340381697|3221851 said:
when dealing with Good Old Gold, you can put a $500 deposit down on the stone and have it sent to an appraiser to look at if you don't want to pay in full.

38k on a ring? :shock: Wow that's crazy. Enough for a down payment on a house
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I know, its a lot to swallow! I'm trying not to go above that. But anytime you go F color and 2.5ct, it seems like it can quickly shoot above $40k easily. which is why I'm tyring to stay right under. A 2.4 or 2.3 ct will probably look very very similiar to a 2.5 but at $6-8k less.
 
"We do not give out the actual copy of the GIA certificate until the purchase is made. We are very picky about the dimensions so you can be confident we are looking for a particular table/depth/crown/pavilion combination. We have on our policy page that we do not give out the certificate info until the time of purchase. The reason we had no choice but to follow this is because people would use our knowledge and experience to locate the best available diamond for them and even pay to ship it in and have us run all the scans/video which would confirm it is an awesome diamond. Then they use the exact certificate info to find it on another website that provides zero services that is selling it for $50 less. You can imagine how unfair that is so we have to protect ourselves now no matter how much we feel we can trust someone."
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???
Easy workaround: black out the report number, send scan of report sans report number. A scan of the report sans report number is neither going to help nor hinder someone who is utterly determined to find the stone elsewhere for $50 less.

The GOG workup will tell you about proportions, but GOG is not the independent authority, the issuer of the report is, and there are other things on the report that a consumer will want to know about - comments, girdle inscriptions, age of report, fluor, that there actually *is* a report (why would a new consumer have any reason to believe it?)...
 
I assume that Sarah works for Jonathan?
[email protected] gave me a bounceback.

Yeah, if they are really worried, they can just black out the GIA #. This is the first vendor that wont send me the certs, where every other vendor has theirs posted online. Has anyone else worked with GOG, and have this issue where Sarah won't send copies of the GIA cert? I just like to use the certs to see the inclusions and run the #s. This is normal for any customer.
 
Here is what she also stated

"If you are searching for simply GIA3Ex and do not require video/pictures then that is a different story and the prices/options may be different. "

I guess their prices are higher because they do videos and idealscopes....that is ridiculous. If it is in-house, it shouldn't be extra $. But if they have to call it in, that is more understandable. I don't know what they charge for shipping.
 
GMUAlum08|1340381697|3221851 said:
when dealing with Good Old Gold, you can put a $500 deposit down on the stone and have it sent to an appraiser to look at if you don't want to pay in full.

38k on a ring? :shock: Wow that's crazy. Enough for a down payment on a house
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...doesn't matter, he's choosing to purchase a diamond. =)
 
Yssie|1340396771|3221983 said:
"We do not give out the actual copy of the GIA certificate until the purchase is made. We are very picky about the dimensions so you can be confident we are looking for a particular table/depth/crown/pavilion combination. We have on our policy page that we do not give out the certificate info until the time of purchase. The reason we had no choice but to follow this is because people would use our knowledge and experience to locate the best available diamond for them and even pay to ship it in and have us run all the scans/video which would confirm it is an awesome diamond. Then they use the exact certificate info to find it on another website that provides zero services that is selling it for $50 less. You can imagine how unfair that is so we have to protect ourselves now no matter how much we feel we can trust someone."
Click to expand...

???
Easy workaround: black out the report number, send scan of report sans report number. A scan of the report sans report number is neither going to help nor hinder someone who is utterly determined to find the stone elsewhere for $50 less.

The GOG workup will tell you about proportions, but GOG is not the independent authority, the issuer of the report is, and there are other things on the report that a consumer will want to know about - comments, girdle inscriptions, age of report, fluor, that there actually *is* a report (why would a new consumer have any reason to believe it?)...
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Yssie, I replied with your thoughts. This is Sarah's comment

"Yes it can help because there is enough info to single out a particular stone such as the angle combination or the clarity plot. Our service to select the best for you, not find the best and let you go buy it from someone else who does not provide the same service for a lesser price. There are diamonds with tables less than 60% leaking light all over the place and dull. Sometimes inclusions in the middle are not noticeable if they are a certain shape/placed along a certain angle. The inclusions on the edges can be the danger zone where they can chip actually but it's impossible to know without analyzing. These are all things that clients usually leave to us the experts with a super high online reputation to find for them."
 
Christina...|1340402404|3222044 said:
http://www.diamondselections.com/GetCertificate.aspx?DiamondID=31620194

This one is listed at pearlmans for 34355. less 2% wire transfer. It's virtual so anyone can call it in for you.
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Christina,
That's the same one I posted from Brilliance with the HCA score of 1.9. We called in and there are black inclusions in the middle. The inscription says H&A so someone thought it was H&A quality, but its technically not a H&A brand, per say. Hence, it is priced the same as any other similiar sized rock.

I can wait, there should be these sizes (2.3-2.4) that come up all the time right? I think its the F color that makes it more rare. Si1 is pretty standard.
 
After I posted I thought that it may have been the same. :(sad And yes, I think because you're limiting your search criteria specifically to F with no flourescence, the search results are a bit more narrow. You know what you want though and that's helpful so if you have some time, then I'd sit back and wait. I saw where someone posted that a vendor had recently sold a few of their 2ct in house stones, so I'm thinking that they will be looking to replace them shortly. I'll be sure to keep an eye out and update if I come across anything.
 
Yssie, I probably dont need a VS2. I'd rather get a slightly bigger with a SI1, and pay less. I'm being picky I know. Thanks everyone... :oops:

By the way, how do these online vendors know if we are pricescope members?
 
jyeh74|1340422346|3222246 said:
Yssie, I probably dont need a VS2. I'd rather get a slightly bigger with a SI1, and pay less. I'm being picky I know. Thanks everyone... :oops:

By the way, how do these online vendors know if we are pricescope members?
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By the way we start ranting about eyecleans and HCAs the moment we get them on the phone ;))

Or... we tell them. I've sometimes been asked for my handle.


ETA yeah, I hear you on the specs vs your priorities... I'm just not *finding* anything else, and I know Christina's done a lot of searching already so I'm probably just revisiting stuff she's already seen! It's a bit of a wasteland at the moment - not that 2.3-2.5 was ever a terribly fruitful range.
 
Are James Allen and Blue Nile diamonds only available at those sites? i.e. no other vendor can call those in?

Does anyone know anything about BN? I think I ran across a couple, but not sure about their pricing, services, etc
 
Many of James Allen and BN stones can be called in by someone else. The stone I mentioned on the other thread that I had GOG call in was listed on about 3 sites that I saw including JA. JA is partly owned by a diamond supplier so other vendors do have access. I think most of BN's inventory is virtual other than their signature stones. At least that is the way it was.
 
Diamondseeker2006, thanks for the reply. Christina/Diamondseeker2006/Yssie, what do you think of this one?
It seems decently priced and scores under 1 on the HCA. But its parameters are higher than what most people suggest. Crown is 36% (people suggested to stay under 35%) Depth is 62.7% (people suggested to stay under 62.3) I dont know about needles on the edges...heard its bad for the integrity of the diamond.
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD02634112

Compare this one one which costs more, is slightly smaller and scores lower on the HCA
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02119549
 
jyeh74|1340481589|3222514 said:
Diamondseeker2006, thanks for the reply. Christina/Diamondseeker2006/Yssie, what do you think of this one?
It seems decently priced and scores under 1 on the HCA. But its parameters are higher than what most people suggest. Crown is 36% (people suggested to stay under 35%) Depth is 62.7% (people suggested to stay under 62.3) I dont know about needles on the edges...heard its bad for the integrity of the diamond.
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD02634112

Compare this one one which costs more, is slightly smaller and scores lower on the HCA
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02119549
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2.56 - Might work, might not. Depends on how GIA rounded crown/pav/lgf and what went into the average that was rounded... def worth putting in the GetDetailedReview folder
2.54 - Definitely not, overly steep pav for the crown - no realistic odds of redemption on review

I think it is still as DS says - only stones BN can give any more info on are their signature stones, and even then I would not trust a review from a BN rep, they don't have nearly the expertise that PS vendors boast


Will you consider Gs? Many more options for negligible sacrifice in colour - at these grades and sizes both F and G are both going to be *white*
 
I thought about G, but I like F because they are part of the colorless range and they are rarer.

Why would the 2.56, which scores way better, cost $6k less than the 2.54?
Isn't anything greater than a 35% crown angle going to lose light? WF and BGD specifically told me to keep crown angle between 33.5-35%, they said anything greater than 35% = do NOT get. But HCA calc is scoring 0.9 on the 2.56ct, which is pretty good! The 2.54ct scores above 5.0
 
Prices can vary a lot depending on how long the supplier or jeweler has had the stone, how much they paid and they need to sell it, etc.

When you are looking for SI in a 2 ct plus stone, you may find that many are not eyeclean from the top and sides. Just wanted to mention that! I think VS2 is worth it, personally (but I realize priorities vary :-)).

The BN stone is kinda deep, so it goes out of my range of acceptability.
 
jyeh74|1340483355|3222527 said:
Isn't anything greater than a 35% crown angle going to lose light? WF and BGD specifically told me to keep crown angle between 33.5-35%, they said anything greater than 35% = do NOT get. But HCA calc is scoring 0.9 on the 2.56ct, which is pretty good! The 2.54ct scores above 5.0
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No. It's how all the proportions work together - a steeper crown paired with a shallower pav can be lovely, and a shallower crown paired with a steeper pav can also be lovely. A shallow crown/shallow pav or steep/steep type can be problematic - how problematic depends on how shallow or steep we're talking about and precision of cutting (measurement ranges around the stone), and how other proportions factor in - table/lgf/other proportions/...

Keeping within certain ranges is an easy way to find a probable winner when you have lots and lots of options, but you're already looking for a needle in a haystack with your other requirements so you're going to have to consider each stone individually on its own merits
 
Is a crown of 36% and a pavilion of 41% considered a good match? I think 41% is decent for pavilion but 36% seems steep. But the HCA is giving a good score so its seems worth looking into, despite the crown angle of 36%.

According to your comment, if there is a steep crown (36%), the pavilion angle should be way less than 41% to offset it.

Plus there arent many inclusions in the middle. Most of the needles are on the side. I believe someone was telling me that it is fragile to gave a lot of inclusions on the edges.
 
jyeh74|1340488868|3222553 said:
Is a crown of 36% and a pavilion of 41% considered a good match? I think 41% is decent for pavilion but 36% seems steep. But the HCA is giving a good score so its seems worth looking into, despite the crown angle of 36%.

According to your comment, if there is a steep crown (36%), the pavilion angle should be way less than 41% to offset it.
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If pav was say 40.6 I'd say it's very promising by the numbers. My old stone was a 36/40.6/small-table type and I adored it, but I am very partial to coloured light return. It was also deeper (depth %) like this one but that's normal w/ higher-crown types - given volume has to be distributed somehow
As it stands I think it's worth further investigation, but don't get attached b/c going by the numbers it may or may not pan out. Given the rounding, the averaging...


ETA: HCA for 2.56 is not 0.9 it is much higher

hca.png
 
Yssie|1340489946|3222555 said:
jyeh74|1340488868|3222553 said:
Is a crown of 36% and a pavilion of 41% considered a good match? I think 41% is decent for pavilion but 36% seems steep. But the HCA is giving a good score so its seems worth looking into, despite the crown angle of 36%.

According to your comment, if there is a steep crown (36%), the pavilion angle should be way less than 41% to offset it.
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If pav was say 40.6 I'd say it's very promising by the numbers. My old stone was a 36/40.6/small-table type and I adored it, but I am very partial to coloured light return. It was also deeper (depth %) like this one but that's normal w/ higher-crown types - given volume has to be distributed somehow
As it stands I think it's worth further investigation, but don't get attached b/c going by the numbers it may or may not pan out. Given the rounding, the averaging...


ETA: HCA for 2.56 is not 0.9 it is much higher

hca.png
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By golly, you are right. I must have put in wrong numbers. Good catch.
 
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