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Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
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- 10,881
Yea I definitely would want it somehow identified. But I know i'll probably only be able to afford a 5 pointer!!! Which is fine, I just want a tiny one that is legit Argyle.Rockdiamond|1337361557|3198505 said:Hi Ame,
My experience is that a diamond which can be shown to be "argyle" will cost as much a 3-4 times as much as an identical diamond who's origin is not assured.
I can't speak for any other vendor, or their policies obviously- but if a cutter is trying to sell me Argyle stones ( at argyle prices) that are not laser engraved ( which will appear on the GIA report) I am hugely skeptical.
The incredible price hikes of Argyle stones over the past 5 years certainly makes the massive price seem like a good investment.......but others may want to buy "regular" pink diamonds
Rockdiamond|1337365531|3198560 said:I just did a bit more in-depth research
Argyle does offer rough diamonds outside the tender- to a very select group of dealer/cutters.
The only situation arising out of this type of stone which is verifiable, is if that particular person polishes the rough, and then markets it.
Even then, it's only taking the word of that given seller.
More often in these cases I believe the stones are sold in the rough- possibly touching 4-5 hands before they are polished.
At that point it's pretty much impossible to verify.
But dealers will advise that a stone "looks argyle".
Of course many dealers promote misgraded stones, among many other questionable practices- as mentioned the key here is selecting a dealer with integrity.
We deal with folks who won't guarantee anything they have not seen with their own eyes- or that can be verified.
Another difficult aspect of Ame's original quest is the size.
Larger stones are bound to be purchased, and tracked individually from the rough to a polished - possibly making the trail back to the mine more straightforward as compared with melee which is sold in lots.
Mike- this is a little different than what you wrote- but I'm not 1000% percent certain.
I was told by a very large supplier of ours who participates in the tender that the small Argyle stones are sold at "sites", as opposed to the tender.....
Interesting stuff!
Thanks for starting the discussion Ame!
Rockdiamond|1337365531|3198560 said:I just did a bit more in-depth research
Argyle does offer rough diamonds outside the tender- to a very select group of dealer/cutters.
The only situation arising out of this type of stone which is verifiable, is if that particular person polishes the rough, and then markets it.
Even then, it's only taking the word of that given seller.
More often in these cases I believe the stones are sold in the rough- possibly touching 4-5 hands before they are polished.
At that point it's pretty much impossible to verify.
But dealers will advise that a stone "looks argyle".
Of course many dealers promote misgraded stones, among many other questionable practices- as mentioned the key here is selecting a dealer with integrity.
We deal with folks who won't guarantee anything they have not seen with their own eyes- or that can be verified.
Another difficult aspect of Ame's original quest is the size.
Larger stones are bound to be purchased, and tracked individually from the rough to a polished - possibly making the trail back to the mine more straightforward as compared with melee which is sold in lots.
Mike- this is a little different than what you wrote- but I'm not 1000% percent certain.
I was told by a very large supplier of ours who participates in the tender that the small Argyle stones are sold at "sites", as opposed to the tender.....
Interesting stuff!
Thanks for starting the discussion Ame!
Rockdiamond|1337367834|3198585 said:Thanks Mike!!
That does leave another possibility.
Argyle includes parcels in the tender ( and now that you mention that it sounds like something I read in the tender listing)- but they may also sell parcels of small rough non tender, in their sites.
My guy is not the "head honcho- who's not in today- but if you could verify this Mike, I'd appreciate it!
Rockdiamond|1337371597|3198627 said:Sorry Mike- I did not see the part of your answer about non tender melee parcels ( and it's even there twice.
I have seen amazing natural pink melee ( as nice as the argyle stuff I've seen) that was not identified as coming Argyle- of course for Ame- or others what want verifiable Argyle stones, that's not the answer.
Ame- at $1000 for a .05ct stone, it's $20k per carat.
Based on the prices I've seen, it will have to be slightly lighter, or maybe with a brown modifier- and then it would be a lot less.
But nice Intense Pink Natural .05ct stones are generally going for more today- no matter where they were mined
ame|1337371933|3198630 said:Id be curious WHAT a 1000 budget would get me with a real Argyle. But that's the max I could spend. Id love to pay less even if its a tiny stone. "rose pink" was a nice shade I thought. Maybe in the 5-6P mark. But having it really legitimately be Argyle and somehow marked would be important. Shape and all that would be less important, as I wouldn't care if it was round, step, radiant probably.
EXCELLENT to hear. I don't want to have them really dark. I want them to be pink but not ridiculous looking. Ill have to see what I can find that would work in my budget, even if its a little parcel of a few melee or something. I don't need a lot. Look at me using NEED. I just want something to have in my collection!Mike R|1337372931|3198636 said:ame|1337371933|3198630 said:Id be curious WHAT a 1000 budget would get me with a real Argyle. But that's the max I could spend. Id love to pay less even if its a tiny stone. "rose pink" was a nice shade I thought. Maybe in the 5-6P mark. But having it really legitimately be Argyle and somehow marked would be important. Shape and all that would be less important, as I wouldn't care if it was round, step, radiant probably.
I'm sure you will find something nice, you seem very reasonable with your expectations, you should be able to be given a copy of the Argyle lot number in paperwork from your vendor. .
For the record Zahra's pinks were 5P and they all came from the same lot #, personally I wouldn't won't to go any more intense than 5P, they were pure and vivid looking without being dark.
Thanks David.
Yssie|1337372522|3198631 said:Rockdiamond|1337371597|3198627 said:Sorry Mike- I did not see the part of your answer about non tender melee parcels ( and it's even there twice.
I have seen amazing natural pink melee ( as nice as the argyle stuff I've seen) that was not identified as coming Argyle- of course for Ame- or others what want verifiable Argyle stones, that's not the answer.
Ame- at $1000 for a .05ct stone, it's $20k per carat.
Based on the prices I've seen, it will have to be slightly lighter, or maybe with a brown modifier- and then it would be a lot less.
But nice Intense Pink Natural .05ct stones are generally going for more today- no matter where they were mined
Good God.
Is that a realistic quote?
Rockdiamond|1337374122|3198656 said:Yssie|1337372522|3198631 said:Rockdiamond|1337371597|3198627 said:Sorry Mike- I did not see the part of your answer about non tender melee parcels ( and it's even there twice.
I have seen amazing natural pink melee ( as nice as the argyle stuff I've seen) that was not identified as coming Argyle- of course for Ame- or others what want verifiable Argyle stones, that's not the answer.
Ame- at $1000 for a .05ct stone, it's $20k per carat.
Based on the prices I've seen, it will have to be slightly lighter, or maybe with a brown modifier- and then it would be a lot less.
But nice Intense Pink Natural .05ct stones are generally going for more today- no matter where they were mined
Good God.
Is that a realistic quote?
Hi Yssie![]()
I believe it is realistic on today's market. There are always anomalies- and hopefully Ame can find one....but many times the low price is a giveaway....
Funny story- a guy showed me some incredible looking melee. Assorted colors, with some pink in there.
But this was not from one of our normal channels- and the price was very low.
"How do you know they're natural?" I asked.
"They're from my cousin!" he replied.
OH- your cousin ( who I also never heard of) now it all makes sense!
The point is- short of a stone with GIA report - or argyle certificate- OR- if a trusted vendor can provide ample enough assurance, you're faced with a very tough challenge Ame.
And in the second case- a vendors assurance without paperwork, you'd loose that value as well should you ever want to sell it.
My earnest advice to someone looking for a $1000 Argyle diamond is that it makes far more sense to wait till you can buy a stone with the proper paperwork- and large enough to actually see without a loupe
it's pretty easy to loose a .05ct diamond......
Yssie said:![]()
Ame's pretty good with a loupe, no worries there![]()
lol Im the master at it. I am also death to Quality Control. lol if you ever need some hard core anal-retentiveness, gimme a ringRockdiamond|1337381256|3198735 said:Yssie said:![]()
Ame's pretty good with a loupe, no worries there![]()
We'll have to send her a ticket next time we drop one....you have no idea how many hours we spend on our knees looking for diamonds we've dropped!
justginger|1337382179|3198746 said:Ditto everything Kenny said - especially about inequalities in Argyle stone treatment. There seems to be NO consistancy in what bears Argyle cert/inscription and what is passed over.