Signature Ideal vs. Ideal @ Blue Nile.. Plus more questions.

[adam81]

Hey all

I am very close to purchasing an e-ring for the lovely lady, I am just a bit confused on cut still.. I have heard that AGS0 is best, but I see that both signature-ideal and ideal diamonds from blue nile are AGS0 on the AGS certification report? I did a search on these forums and really am no less confused about it.. Figured maybe it''s been awhile and people have found out more about this topic...

Also, is there varying degrees of AGS0? Can you have an AGS0 with a noticeably better cut than another AGS0? What''s the deal with hearts&arrows? Do all AGS0 cuts have these?

I''m pretty much set on my color/clarity (F, VS1/2), I just want to make sure I''m getting the best cut possible without getting gouged on price (And there seems to be a pretty hefty price difference between signature ideal and just ideal on blue nile)...


Thank you for your help
Adam

 

[purrfectpear]

Buying from Blue Nile is sort of a crap shoot. If you buy from Good old Gold or Whiteflash for example, you can talk with a real person who can look at the stone and will give you their HONEST opinion. I would trust either companies to be very frank about the eye cleanness of the stone and willing to discuss pros and cons. In addition they both have trade up policies that you may find useful in the future. Just something to consider.

 

[denverappraiser]

Signature-ideal means that Blue Nile owns it, or at least has exclusive distribution rights to it. If it is a modern round brilliant, it must also be either graded GIA-Excellent by GIA or AGS-0 by AGSL. Either seems to be sufficient.

The grade of ‘signature-ideal’ is also given to princess, emerald and Asscher cuts that meet their own proportion set definitions. These are unrelated to the AGS-0 requirements for those cuts and GIA doesn’t assign a cut grade of any kind to any of these stones. BN seems to use exclusively GIA grading for these stones.

Here, for example, are the eligibility rules for Signature Ideal Princess, copied from their website:

Crown Height: 8.5-13.5%
L/W Ratio: Square (1.0-1.05)
Depth %: 63.0-72.0%
Table %: 65.0-74.0%
Polish: EX to VG
Symmetry: EX to VG

All Sig-Ideal stones come with additional paperwork and packing materials from GCAL and Blue Nile themselves.

“Ideal”, at Blue Nile, is only available in modern round brilliant cut stones and to be eligible a stone must have been graded either GIA-excellent or AGS-0. As with the above, either seems to be sufficient. Other dealers and the labs themselves use this term rather differently.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[honey22]

Welcome! If you post the size stone you are looking for, and an approx budget if you feel comfortable, we can suggest some gorgeous stones, that way you will get top quality at a price you would reasonably expect to pay.

We love to help others find sparklies

 

[adam81]

DA - thanks for the detailed response I guess I kinda understand now, that it just means that BN owns the stone and it meets a certain measurement criteria they set, but... Does it still mean that it''s not necessarily better than an AGS-0 (ideal) stone?

honey22 - Thank you .. Basically, I am looking for a round cut diamond, around 0.75carat.. F color, VS1/2 clarity, best cut, obviously ideal cut/symmetry and whatnot.. I found one on whiteflash that was almost exactly what I was looking for but it was VS1 and a bit pricier.. I can do it technically but was hoping for maybe 300-400 cheaper if I could get it with the same specs except VS2... Also another thing I''m not entirely sure about is the ''scope'' pictures.. The one that shows the diamonds in a reddish hue.. I''m looking at around 4-4.5K for everything (band + stone) but for the band I''m probably going with something like a simple but elegant 18k white gold.. something around 375-500 or so for the band..

 

[honey22]

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-978316.htm

This seems spot on for you!! An ACA too - SO Is dragging me out the door, will come back later!!!!

 

[honey22]

Sorry bout that, we had to go shopping and he is a tad sick of waiting for me to finish posting

The stone I posted above is an ACA - top quality cut, pretty much best available, you won't be disappointed at all. Icy white, totally eyeclean, right size and spot on budget. You will also get a PS discount of 5% too.

I will check out some others, but I honestly think you should put this baby on reserve before someone else does (has been known to happen around here)

ETA - smidgy above budget, but a tad larger and still awesome specs!!

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-978314.htm

 

[honey22]

In one of these settings!! Right on budget, if you pick the 1st stone:

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/-Sleek-Lines--Solitaire_688.htm

or a tad under, very simple and classic, but I would still go the sleek lines IMHO:

http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=ST6PW&CategID=13

http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=ST4PW&CategID=13

A tad over budget, but with discounts on the stone, will come very close:

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/-Legato--Sleek-Line_1118.htm

OK, I think either of the sleek lines look very classy and elegant, and would still be a ''forever setting''. The other two are still very nice, but I think more suiting to upgrading later or someone on a very strict budget.

If you have wiggle room on the budget, I would go the larger rock and one of the sleek lines. If you are strapped for cash and have no wiggle room, I would go the larger rock and a cheaper setting.
Hope this helps!!

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/10/2008 9:40:35 PM
Author: adam81
DA - thanks for the detailed response I guess I kinda understand now, that it just means that BN owns the stone and it meets a certain measurement criteria they set, but... Does it still mean that it''s not necessarily better than an AGS-0 (ideal) stone?

It depends on what you consider to be better.

GIA-Excellent contains a significant number of stones that would not qualify for AGS-0. GIA is correct that there is a huge component of taste to this whole grading question and if what you like best falls outside of the AGS-0 parameters than you will be getting a better stone by going there. The opposite can also be an advantage. AGS has a much more precise and much more difficult to attain standard. They are much more similar to one another and it’s therefore easier to shop blind and feel like you know exactly what you’ll be getting. It’s worth pointing out that you can easily arrange to buy GIA-excellent’s without the BN-SI stamp of approval as well if that''s what you want.

Personally, I prefer the AGS rules and would buy an AGS graded one if it were for me. For fancy cuts like princess, I definitely prefer the AGS rules to the BN rules and since AGS grading isn’t available in the SI line, I would be shopping elsewhere for my ‘ideal’ princess.

Who owns it before you is largely an academic issue but it comes into play if you are inclined to asked lots of difficult questions during your shopping process. A dealer isn’t able to take additional photographs, sarins, run other additional tests or provide a personal visual opinion for you unless they actually have the stone. Blue Nile won’t do these anyway so it’s not much of an edge here but some of the dealers uses this as a pretty strong competitive advantage. It also reduces the chances of choosing the stone of your dreams only to find out that someone else bought it before they could actually make the delivery. This can be frustrating and it happens with remarkable frequency with some of the ‘virtual’ stones, especially with the most desirable or most attractively priced goods. Lastly are all of the presentation materials and the GCAL document. There’s a certain convenience to not having to take the time to hire your own expert but to still have some extra paperwork so having BN hire GCAL in advance has some merit if you value the GCALs opinion. Personally I think you’ll get better work for a better price elsewhere but I’m not exactly an unbiased observer on this issue and it’s awfully close to a forum rules violation for me to get into it so I’ll let others do it.

The flip side is usually about money. GCAL is not a free service and fancy boxes cost money. Signature-Ideal generally raises the price. It’s up to you to decide if this is where you want to spend your money or if you would be better buying a bigger stone, a better grade here or there or just keeping the money in the bank.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[adam81]

Thank you for all your replies

DA - Thanks again for the great reply, you''ve helped me understand things a bunch!!

Honey - Wow thanks for all your research Yes, I love the sleek line bands!! I''m probably going to go with the 0.75 one.. And I had no idea about the 5% discount, that''s great!!

Thanks again,
Adam

 

[adam81]

Woohoo I called whiteflash and had a nice chitchat with one of the people there.. I ended up getting the 0.75 F/VS1/ACA with the sleek lines 18K white gold

I also mentioned pricescope so I got the discount

Thanks again to all of you who have helped me! I''ll get some pics up when I get the ring

 

[ayala_jessica]

Great choice ! You won''t be disappointed that is for sure ! Congrats on your purchase !

 

[honey22]

Wonderful news Adam

You are more than welcome - I am happy to help, it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside when I know that another woman will have a stunning ering to oggle at all day!!

 

[motownmama]

You done well! Can''t wait to see.............

 

[rte]

Date: 5/11/2008 11:11:54 AM
Author: adam81
Woohoo I called whiteflash and had a nice chitchat with one of the people there.. I ended up getting the 0.75 F/VS1/ACA with the sleek lines 18K white gold

I also mentioned pricescope so I got the discount

Thanks again to all of you who have helped me! I'll get some pics up when I get the ring

Very nice choice
Cant go wrong with that choice......definetly some white flash there

 

[adam81]

Just wanted to send you guys some pics of the ring The photographer at whiteflash sent me some pics before mailing out the ring.. It looks just as good in person!

 

[Ice Princess Cristy]

Date: 5/22/2008 11:04:34 PM
Author: adam81
Just wanted to send you guys some pics of the ring The photographer at whiteflash sent me some pics before mailing out the ring.. It looks just as good in person!

Beautiful!!!!

I am sure your lovely lady will be thrilled, you won''t be disappointed and made a great choice! Congrats and we want hand pics when you propose!!!

 

[Ellen]

That ring is simply beautiful. You did well!