SI1 Diamond Grading Question

[thankz17]

I have a question regarding my engagement ring. The diamond is a G SI1. I have returned the diamond because of not being happy with it. I am not sure if you can see in the pictures because they are blurry, but there was an inclusion that looked like a crystal line to me that was easily visible to my eyes. I am in the process of getting it replaced, but am leery of the jewelers honesty.

My question is are SI1 supposed to have visible inclusions? How can one be sure that the GIA report matches the diamond you are receiving?

Thanks for your time wish I would have found you guys sooner!

 

[jstarfireb]

Welcome to PS! The ring is beautiful, but I can see why you're concerned about the stone.

Not all SI1s are created equal. Some have inclusions visible to the naked eye; others are "eye-clean." Does the positioning of the inclusion match the GIA report inclusion plot?

If your diamond was GIA-graded, it is likely a "true" SI1 because GIA has stringent grading standards. With other labs, you could run the risk of getting a true SI2 or I1 that was graded SI1. But that would be another reason why there could be a large visible inclusion if your diamond was EGL- or IGI-graded, for example.

 

[dockman3]

Hi, and welcome to Pricescope!

The only way to truly know that the diamond you are getting matches the GIA report is to take it to an independent appraiser. Generally speaking, SI stones are "eye clean", but this not a hard and fast rule. Every SI stone is different and you have to see it in person to know if it is eye clean to you specification. Just be sure that any diamond you buy is certified by some independent lab and not just the jeweler. Get a report from either GIA or AGS if you can. Hope that helps and let us know if you have any other questions!

 

[thankz17]

Date: 7/28/2008 4:39:40 PM
Author: jstarfireb
Does the positioning of the inclusion match the GIA report inclusion plot?

Thanks so much for the replies.

Yes the GIA report did match where the inclusion was.

Thanks for the insight I was under the impression that all SI stones were eye clean.

Is there any other things I should look for when picking the new diamond? It is a radiant cut. But not the branded type I believe.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Indira-London]

SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean "eyeclean" under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Here is what the GIA say re. clarity grades from their website: http://www.gia.edu/library/4286/6278/faq_detail_page.cfm
What is the GIA Clarity Scale for diamonds?

Answer:

Diamonds have internal features, called inclusions, and surface irregularities, called blemishes. Together, they''re called clarity characteristics. A clarity grade is determined by the relative absence of clarity characteristics.

Flawless (FL): no blemishes or inclusions when examined by a skilled grader under 10X magnification.

Internally Flawless (IF): no inclusions when examined by a skilled grader, and only insignificant blemishes under 10X.

Very Very Slightly Included (VVS1 and VVS2): contain minute inclusions that are difficult for even a skilled grader to locate under 10X. VVS1: extremely difficult to see, visible only from the pavilion or small and shallow enough to be removed by minor repolishing. VVS2: very difficult to see.

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10X.

Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2): contain noticeable inclusions which are easy (SI1) or very easy (SI2) to see under 10X. In some SIs, inclusions can be seen with the unaided eye.

Included (I1, I2, I3): contain inclusions which are obvious to a trained grader under 10X, can often be easily seen face-up with the unaided eye, seriously affect the stone''s potential durability, or are so numerous they affect transparency and brilliance.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London

SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean ''eyeclean'' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Ditto Indira.

 

[dbsdiamonds]

Hi there,


It is pretty rare for an SI1 GIA certified diamond under 2ct be visibly included. However, one thing I notice immediately is how terrible the briliance factor is on the diamond picture. You can see the huge bow ties. There is no brilliance to hide anything.

I''ll bet with GIA specs this major cut issue could have been avoided. I have to say the crystal inclusion is rather on the larger side, definitely leaning heavily towards SI2. GIA can be a little loosey goosey, but they are the cert of choice. If you shopped this stone on pricepoint you found out why it was one of the lower prices.

It is quite simple to avoid the issues you present with proper professional help. Don''t get jaded on the process and the misstep you took. All you gotta do is look in the right direction.

Marty
www.dbsdiamonds.com

 

[John P]

Date: 7/29/2008 5:18:23 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London




SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean 'eyeclean' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Ditto Indira.

Many GIA/AGS SI diamonds will be eye clean but there are no absolutes. Every diamond is different and people see differently. Eyesight also recedes with age, so the 16 year old you may see differently than the 60 year old you.

Lighting also plays a part in what you can see. A diamond that looked clean under jewelry store spotlights might "grow" an inclusion once you get it home... Direct lighting is meant to bring out fire and scintillation, which can mask inclusions. If you're shopping live be sure to examine diamonds in several different lighting conditions - one of which should be neutral/diffused.

 

[rcrosier]

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London

SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean ''eyeclean'' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Yes, and I think this is the problem that we are seeing right now. People ofter interpret "eye-clean" as being not visible with an unaided eye, but this is not the case. I would say that given about a minute in diffused lighting with most SI1 diamonds with crystal inclusions (not twinning wisps or something strain related, or crystals hidden under mounting material), you could find the inclusions in it when viewing from a 1-2 inch up-close and personal range. Especially if you have seen inclusions in a stone before. However, although YOU can see them at that range, they aren''t visible to the casual viewer examining the ring on your finger from a non-intimate range.

Maybe you got the short end of the SI1 stick here, but honestly, if you wanted a stone with no inclusions visible to the unaided eye from ANY range of viewing, you should look for a VS1. But with that comes the premium, so you need to find a level that you can tolerate. There are definitely SI1 stones that are difficult to see inclusions on from any range, esp those w/ only twinning wisps, but you have to take your time to find one as they aren''t highly common.

There is a difference between eye-clean and mind-clean. Maybe your stone IS "eye-clean" but IS NOT "mind-clean" to you....

Hope this helped you feel less like you got ripped off and more like you''re just being paranoid

!

 

[diamondringlover]

My princess is a SI2 and you got to look pretty darn hard to see the inclusions from the top, I was only able to spot them when I knew where they were.

 

[thankz17]

Thanks Rob. I think you and the others are right on.

I am now aware of what to look for. I will keep you guys updated. I do feel better now, although I think I maybe looking for a VS1 now.

Thanks again for all the information.

 

[rcrosier]

Date: 7/29/2008 5:48:43 PM
Author: thankz17
Thanks Rob. I think you and the others are right on.

I am now aware of what to look for. I will keep you guys updated. I do feel better now, although I think I maybe looking for a VS1 now.

Thanks again for all the information.

My personal suggestion to you would be to go for a stone that has an SI1 rating because of twinning wisps. Although the certificate will have a bunch of markings on the illustration of the inclusion placement on the diamond, you will not be able to see them with the naked eye. They are only visiible when viewing through a filter. So you can get a completely eye clean stone with an SI1 grading due to only twinning wisps and a few very small crystals, as opposed to one large crystal or feather, which will be easily seen with the naked eye from "pointe blank" range.

Happy hunting,

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/29/2008 10:23:48 PM
Author: rcrosier

Date: 7/29/2008 5:48:43 PM
Author: thankz17
Thanks Rob. I think you and the others are right on.

I am now aware of what to look for. I will keep you guys updated. I do feel better now, although I think I maybe looking for a VS1 now.

Thanks again for all the information.

My personal suggestion to you would be to go for a stone that has an SI1 rating because of twinning wisps. Although the certificate will have a bunch of markings on the illustration of the inclusion placement on the diamond, you will not be able to see them with the naked eye. They are only visiible when viewing through a filter. So you can get a completely eye clean stone with an SI1 grading due to only twinning wisps and a few very small crystals, as opposed to one large crystal or feather, which will be easily seen with the naked eye from ''pointe blank'' range.

Happy hunting,

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags0-but-hca-2-8.88511/

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London

SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean ''eyeclean'' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Here is what the GIA say re. clarity grades from their website: http://www.gia.edu/library/4286/6278/faq_detail_page.cfm
What is the GIA Clarity Scale for diamonds?


Answer:

Diamonds have internal features, called inclusions, and surface irregularities, called blemishes. Together, they''re called clarity characteristics. A clarity grade is determined by the relative absence of clarity characteristics.

Flawless (FL): no blemishes or inclusions when examined by a skilled grader under 10X magnification.

Internally Flawless (IF): no inclusions when examined by a skilled grader, and only insignificant blemishes under 10X.

Very Very Slightly Included (VVS1 and VVS2): contain minute inclusions that are difficult for even a skilled grader to locate under 10X. VVS1: extremely difficult to see, visible only from the pavilion or small and shallow enough to be removed by minor repolishing. VVS2: very difficult to see.

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10X.

Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2): contain noticeable inclusions which are easy (SI1) or very easy (SI2) to see under 10X. In some SIs, inclusions can be seen with the unaided eye.

Included (I1, I2, I3): contain inclusions which are obvious to a trained grader under 10X, can often be easily seen face-up with the unaided eye, seriously affect the stone''s potential durability, or are so numerous they affect transparency and brilliance.

isnt VVS and above supposed to be difficult to see under 30x magnification?

 

[thankz17]

Date: 7/29/2008 10:23:48 PM
Author: rcrosier

Date: 7/29/2008 5:48:43 PM

Author: thankz17

Thanks Rob. I think you and the others are right on.


I am now aware of what to look for. I will keep you guys updated. I do feel better now, although I think I maybe looking for a VS1 now.


Thanks again for all the information.

My personal suggestion to you would be to go for a stone that has an SI1 rating because of twinning wisps. Although the certificate will have a bunch of markings on the illustration of the inclusion placement on the diamond, you will not be able to see them with the naked eye. They are only visiible when viewing through a filter. So you can get a completely eye clean stone with an SI1 grading due to only twinning wisps and a few very small crystals, as opposed to one large crystal or feather, which will be easily seen with the naked eye from ''pointe blank'' range.


Happy hunting,

Yeah but like we said about the eye clean thing, I definitely saw the inclusions easily with my naked eye. What really got me concerned was so did my other friends that have no experience with diamonds. Which led me to be worried about the actual classification of this diamond being an SI1.

 

[rcrosier]

Date: 7/30/2008 3:36:52 PM
Author: thankz17

Yeah but like we said about the eye clean thing, I definitely saw the inclusions easily with my naked eye. What really got me concerned was so did my other friends that have no experience with diamonds. Which led me to be worried about the actual classification of this diamond being an SI1.

I see, something else to consider is crystal color, as black crystals will be more obvious that white colored crystals. Sounds like you need to look at some more diamonds!

 

[LGK]

Date: 7/30/2008 8:26:51 AM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London



SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean 'eyeclean' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Here is what the GIA say re. clarity grades from their website: http://www.gia.edu/library/4286/6278/faq_detail_page.cfm
What is the GIA Clarity Scale for diamonds?




Answer:

Diamonds have internal features, called inclusions, and surface irregularities, called blemishes. Together, they're called clarity characteristics. A clarity grade is determined by the relative absence of clarity characteristics.

Flawless (FL): no blemishes or inclusions when examined by a skilled grader under 10X magnification.

Internally Flawless (IF): no inclusions when examined by a skilled grader, and only insignificant blemishes under 10X.

Very Very Slightly Included (VVS1 and VVS2): contain minute inclusions that are difficult for even a skilled grader to locate under 10X. VVS1: extremely difficult to see, visible only from the pavilion or small and shallow enough to be removed by minor repolishing. VVS2: very difficult to see.

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10X.

Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2): contain noticeable inclusions which are easy (SI1) or very easy (SI2) to see under 10X. In some SIs, inclusions can be seen with the unaided eye.

Included (I1, I2, I3): contain inclusions which are obvious to a trained grader under 10X, can often be easily seen face-up with the unaided eye, seriously affect the stone's potential durability, or are so numerous they affect transparency and brilliance.

isnt VVS and above supposed to be difficult to see under 30x magnification?

All diamonds are clarity graded under 10X magnification. However, when I took a diamond to be independantly appraised, the appraiser used 10X first, then a 30X microscope after she didn't find anything at 10X magnification. Apparently this particular diamond was originally an IF about 100 years ago, but (like many/most antique diamonds) chipped around the girdle and is a VS2 because of that. She did say that there were no visible inclusions under 30X (excepting the chip). So, I think some IF diamonds *can* be clean under 30X, but they aren't actually graded at that magnification.

Oh, and to the OP: some SI1s are perfectly eyeclean... I think occasionally one runs into a mis-graded stone, no matter what lab did the grading, too; yours may have been one of those. And yeah, twinning wisps are a GREAT inclusion to look for, though they look horrific on a plot. I think Lynn B (?) has a 2.36 ct SI2 with twinning wisps that looks amazing if I recall.

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 7/30/2008 8:26:51 AM
Author: stone_seeker

Date: 7/28/2008 5:51:02 PM
Author: Indira-London



SI1 even from GIA does not necessarily mean 'eyeclean' under all conditions.
Just as not only are not all SI1s equal - not all eyes are equal in viewing ability and how closely you look also affects what you see.
Typically eyeclean means at first glance rather than close up. Depending on the nature, size and position of the inclusion - you might see them with the naked eye though most often this is more likely with SI2s than SI1s.

Here is what the GIA say re. clarity grades from their website: http://www.gia.edu/library/4286/6278/faq_detail_page.cfm
What is the GIA Clarity Scale for diamonds?




Answer:

Diamonds have internal features, called inclusions, and surface irregularities, called blemishes. Together, they're called clarity characteristics. A clarity grade is determined by the relative absence of clarity characteristics.

Flawless (FL): no blemishes or inclusions when examined by a skilled grader under 10X magnification.

Internally Flawless (IF): no inclusions when examined by a skilled grader, and only insignificant blemishes under 10X.

Very Very Slightly Included (VVS1 and VVS2): contain minute inclusions that are difficult for even a skilled grader to locate under 10X. VVS1: extremely difficult to see, visible only from the pavilion or small and shallow enough to be removed by minor repolishing. VVS2: very difficult to see.

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2): contain minor inclusions ranging from difficult (VS1) to somewhat easy (VS2) for a trained grader to see under 10X.

Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2): contain noticeable inclusions which are easy (SI1) or very easy (SI2) to see under 10X. In some SIs, inclusions can be seen with the unaided eye.

Included (I1, I2, I3): contain inclusions which are obvious to a trained grader under 10X, can often be easily seen face-up with the unaided eye, seriously affect the stone's potential durability, or are so numerous they affect transparency and brilliance.

isnt VVS and above supposed to be difficult to see under 30x magnification?

I am afraid not Stoneseeker - diamonds are graded for clarity at x10 magnifcation!