Should this even be a consideration?

[davidgelb]

Hi all,
I purchased a solitaire engagement ring the other day - it is on it''s way right now. I was speaking with a friend of my family who has a diamond that she has had for many years. It has been in storage for a long time, and she said she would sell it to me for my engagement if I am interested.

The ring I already ordered is an EGL certified 1.07ct round cut VS1 E with excellents across the board. The seller said it is probably closer to a VS2 F, Very good across the board.

The diamond that our friend has is a 1.25ct round I1 I. She doesn''t have any other specs on the diamond and no cert, but she is sending it to me (no charge or deposit) for me to have apprased and then I can decide if I want to keep it. She said the diamond appraised for around $6850 but she would sell it for between $4000-$4500. She said it is a beautiful cut...I figure I could take it in for an appraisel and try to take it somewhere that I can get a Sarin for it.

The question is, if the cut is excellent or ideal, and if it looks fairly eye clean, would it make sense for me to consider this over the 1.07 VS2 F? Not sure if anyone would be able to tell what kind of cut a 1.25 I1 I worth about $6850 would be, but if the cut is excellent to Ideal, would it be worth the 3 grade decrease in color and the 4 grade decrease in clarity to gain 18 points in size and save somewhere between $700-$1200?

Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

-David

 

[JulieN]

Excellents across the board? So you got a Sarin?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry, but I1 is not really eye clean. That''s what makes it an I1. No way would I choose it over the stone you already have for that price difference. It would be a miracle if the cut was ideal anyway. Ideal cut is pretty rare. It sounds like the friend is trying to get retail value for selling a second hand stone. It might be worth considering at half that price, but I still wouldn''t consider an I, I1 stone for an engagement ring. (Just being honest!)

 

[davidgelb]

No, I haven''t gotten a Sarin yet...I am just saying, the only way I would consider this stone would be if the cut is excellent or ideal across the boards...

If it is less than ideal or excellent, I think it would probably make more sense to stay with the other stone I have coming...but, if the cut is excellent or ideal, would it make sense to take the hits on color and clarity for size and cut?

Also, does anyone know what it would cost to have a Sarin run on a loose diamond?

Thanks,
David

 

[diamondseeker2006]

David, I honestly wouldn't pay for an appraisal on an I I1 uncertified stone. Since her appraisal was probably inflated for insurance, the stone isn't a good deal at the price she's asking.

Here are prices from the database here:

1.23 I I1 61.5% 57% EGL tn-m no gd vg 6.85x6.91x4.23 $3140
1.23 I I1 61.5% 57% EGL tn-m no gd vg 6.85x6.91x4.23 $3220*SP

So a new diamond with those specs is worth around $3000. So if she'll sell it for about $2000 or so, it would become a good deal (if you wanted an I I1).

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I think you did well with the stone that you have on order...I would not want an I1 diamond for my e-ring. Good luck to you!

 

[davidgelb]

Thank you all....that helps very much!!

Now I am being faced with a couple more options. There are a couple diamonds I have been shown that are GIA or AGS round ideal cuts that range from F, SI2 to I, SI1...would it be worth considering those over the EGL E, VS1 that I have purchsed? I don''t want to drive myself insane by second guessing my original diamond, but I want to make sure I get the best for the $$ and make sure I get the best possible e-ring for my wonderful future fiancee!!

Thanks so much! You are all a HUGE help! (My girlfriend would thank you also...that is, if she knew I was doing all this!!!)

-David

 

[JulieN]

well, you''re getting the E in hand, so just go see which ones you like better?

 

[davidgelb]

Hey Julie,
No, the diamonds I am being shown are online with Whiteflash...so I would have to go by the specs online...I am working with one of their reps, and she picked those out since they are similar...

Basically, I would be getting a better cut, but losing color and clarity, for around the same price (or a little more if I go with these Whiteflash diamonds).

Just not sure if that much clarity and color loss is worth the upgrade in cut.

SO MANY DECISIONS! Sheesh!

Thanks,
David

 

[diamondseeker2006]

David, I''d honestly feel more secure going with a WhiteFlash stone where we know the certs are more accurate and you can see the pictures, idealscope, sarin, etc. But I wouldn''t go to SI2. I''d go to G or H in a GIA or AGS cert and no lower than SI1 in most cases. There may be some okay SI2''s but realistically, it can get expensive sending diamonds back and forth! Better to order an eye-clean SI1 or even VS2.

 

[Lorelei]

David there ARE eyeclean I1''S out there, I know because I have two large ones, but they take luck and searching for, however there is too much unknown about this diamond and risky IMO to get it for your e-ring. With I1 diamonds, you really have to enjoy the hunt and the gamble to find a good one - if you do then you are laughing, but it does take knowing what to look for and luck. Also there are well cut I1 s out there too, but again you need to know what to look for and have cut knowledge.

 

[mrssalvo]

I'd stick with WF but do keep in mind that if you are ever planning to upgrade the stone WF will not take back the EGL stone either in a buy back or the lifetime trade. So you may want to change for a stone with a GIA or AGS cert if it's important to you.

link to WF tradeup policy



ETA: just reread and realized the EGL stone isn't from WF...still go with a GIA or aGS stone though

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/2/2006 12:33:18 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

But I wouldn''t go to SI2. I''d go to G or H in a GIA or AGS cert and no lower than SI1 in most cases. There may be some okay SI2''s but realistically, it can get expensive sending diamonds back and forth! Better to order an eye-clean SI1 or even VS2.

I''d have to disagree with this.....we''ve seen several members here score with very lovely and very eyeclean SI2 stones.

As long as you work with a vendor who has the stones in house (as Whiteflash does), they can pull them and confirm whether or not it''s eyeclean. As such, shipping back and forth really shouldn''t be an issue.

I think DS''s point is well-taken for vendors who don''t have inventory inhouse, but I don''t believe it''s as applicable when you''re working with a vendor who has the stones in hand.

Eyeclean SI2s can represent a fabulous value with no visual sacrifice if you can find a good one.

 

[davidgelb]

Thank you, everyone...that helps me a lot!

So I have narrowed it down to the last 2 diamonds...what do you think?

The one that is arriving today is the:

EGL Antwerp
1.07 round brilliant VS1 E
Excellent cut, Excellent finish
Depth: 62%
Table: 57%
Crown: 14%
Pavilion: 44%
Girdle: Medium
6.46mm x 6.44mm x 4mm
No fluorescence
comments: Ideal H&A


One I am looking at with Whiteflash:
AGS
1.12 Round Ideal Cut SI1 H
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15.1%
Pavilion: 43%
Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 6.64-6.68X4.11

The one from whiteflash is about $800 more than the one I already purchased (which is a little over my budget). I am talking with them today to see if they can do anything to bring it a little closer to my budgeted amount. Any thoughts on the two? I think I have narrowed it down to these two.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!

-David

 

[Lorelei]

Do you have the angles for the WF diamond for crown and pav rather than %? Personally I would pass on the first diamond, need that info for the second one.

 

[pahoyafan]

The crown on the WF diamond is 34.8 and the pavilion is 40.8. It looks like a beautiful classic line ES stone. It's an ES, so it should defenitly be eye-clean. Also, if you do find an SI2 from WF that you like and it is an ACA or ES stone, then it will most likely be eye-clean. I purchased an SI2 from WF and no one can see the inclusions (and they are dark inclusions!). I let people study the ring up and down and they still couldn't see them, and I was telling them where to look.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/2/2006 12:44:23 PM
Author: pahoyafan
The crown on the WF diamond is 34.8 and the pavilion is 40.8. It looks like a beautiful classic line ES stone. It''s an ES, so it should defenitly be eye-clean. Also, if you do find an SI2 from WF that you like and it is an ACA or ES stone, then it will most likely be eye-clean. I purchased an SI2 from WF and no one can see the inclusions (and they are dark inclusions!). I let people study the ring up and down and they still couldn''t see them, and I was telling them where to look.

Wow - then that for sure would be a great pick!

 

[mrssalvo]

I''d go with the second..i really like that it has an AGS cert..

 

[WinkHPD]

EGL Europe has a terrible reputation in the trade for accuracy, so maybe you are getting what they say it is and maybe you are not. I would have a competent appraiser look at that stone before accepting it.

The folks at Whiteflash and I are friends as well as competitors, so please view the above comment with that in mind.

Wink

 

[aljdewey]

Only you can determine how much you can be comfortale stretching your budget.

If the AGS stone from Whiteflash is manageable, I''d select that all day long over the EGL stone.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/2/2006 1:29:18 PM
Author: aljdewey
Only you can determine how much you can be comfortale stretching your budget.

If the AGS stone from Whiteflash is manageable, I''d select that all day long over the EGL stone.

Ditto

 

[Lynn B]

I just wanted to second what Alj said above. There certainly ARE totally eye-clean SI2 stones out there, and I know because I have one (and a rather big one at that -- 2.36 ct). (Photo below). And also, as Lorilei said, there are also wonderful, gorgeous, eyeclean I1s out there, too.

There is a thread somewhere on SMTR called, "Post your SI stones here" or something to that effect. I think that every newbie worried about considering SI stones should seriously look over that thread!

 

[Lorelei]

Wow Lynn, is that a new pic of your beauty?? I LOVE your diamond!

 

[davidgelb]

Hi all,
OK, I put the WF diamond on hold. They are going to send it to my appraser to have it compared to the other diamond I purchased and then release it to me if I decide to keep it. It really does sound like a beautiful diamond, though.

Based on the jeweler who sold me the first one, the EGL diamond rates more like a 1.07 F VS2. So, if I went with the diamond from WF, I would be moving two grades on color and one grade on clarity (they are verifying that it is eye clean), but I would be moving up on the cut scale (the EGL ranks a 3 on the HCA, where the WF diamond ranks a 1.1)

Does that sound like a good trade off?

Thank you all very much. You have really been helping me understand and make the best decisions!

-David

 

[davidgelb]

Hi all,
I got the confirmation that the WF SI1 H diamond is eye clean and has wonderful brilliance and fire! I just received the other (EGL) diamond, and it is beautiful as well! That makes the decision that much harder!! Is there ususally a noticible difference in the sparkle of a diamond that ranks around a 1 on the HCA as compared to a diamond that ranks around a 3 on the HCA?

Thanks!

-David

 

[bookworm21]

I personally would go for the one. I *think* that''s closer to the AGS ideal parameters, but it''s been a while since I''ve used it.

 

[pahoyafan]

David, going by the numbers and ideal scope of the Whiteflash stone, that's about as good as a diamond as you can get. That puppy should blind people, not to mention the H color will probably look like an F,G because of the sparkle. Just my 2 cents.
PS: As for HCA scores, they say that you should try to stay under 2, but i'm sure there are some beauties out there that score just above 2.

 

[diamondlove]

Have you seen the two stones in person? You SHOULD be able to tell a difference due to the cut in the stones (better cut should be more firey & brilliant) but if you don't, you just need to decide which stone you visually prefer. I'd personally go with the better cut stone as long as the clarity is eye clean which it sounds like it is.

DL

ETA: keep in mind that in certain lighting poorer cut and great cut stones might look similar (the kind jewelry stores tend to use) but it's the better cut stone that is usually more firey & brilliant in MORE lighting environments so just bc the two stones look similarly beautiful in one setting try to see them under other lighting environments to really compare.

 

[davidgelb]

Thanks DL,
I have not seen the two stones together yet, but WF is sending that diamond directly to my independant appraser. That way, I can compare the two side by side and see which one I like better...I figure I will compare them inside and outside so I can see them in both lights. According to the lady at WF, the diamond they are sending is eye clean and very brilliant and firey...so, as long as the AGS H stone doesn''t look MUCH more tinted than the EGL E (really F) and if the cut on the WF diamond is really that much nicer, then I will go for the extra cost and get the better cut. I''ll post later on after I see both together if it is noticable.

Thanks for all the help everyone! You have been extremely helpful!

-David

 

[JulieN]

great plan.