shape
carat
color
clarity

Should parents be fined when their kids misbehave?

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
32,298
http://www.lfda.org/news/should-nh-fine-parents-50-if-their-child-bullies-another-student


SHOULD NH FINE PARENTS $50 IF THEIR CHILD BULLIES ANOTHER STUDENT?
BY: LFDA Highlights

An Oklahoma lawmaker is proposing a $50 fine for parents whose children are caught bullying, or potentially breaking other rules.

Supporters argue the proposal will get parents more involved with their children's discipline. A fine also offers teachers an alternative to suspension or expulsion, which interrupts a student's education.

On the other hand, $50 may create stress for some low income families, and conflicts with the idea that public education should be free for all students.

There is no such proposal in New Hampshire, although lawmakers will consider a bill in 2016 that lets students sue a school for failure to follow the state's anti-bullying law.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
26,001
I'm not sure...I'm going to think on this one but this reminds me of the kid who killed 4 people DUI when he was 16 and got
off on the "affluenza" defense. They were saying it wasnt the kids fault because his parents taught him that they (their family) were
the kind of people who "made the rules". Basically, the parents didnt teach him that driving under the influence was a no-no.
The kid got no jail time and got 10 years probation. My thoughts were if the kid could get off because the parents didn't raise him
right then shouldnt we throw the parents in jail for being irresponsible and raising such an imbecile? Seriously, who should be
held responsible for these 4 deaths? Nobody??? Sickening!

Apparently the kid and his mom are now on the lamb (I guess the parents thought his punishment was too harsh :rolleyes: ). Sure hope
he doesnt have a passport. They say he will have the book thrown at him when they catch him. I hope his mom gets to enjoy a
nice lengthy stint in jail as well.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
I want to say yes. But, I don't think it's going to solve anything, so no. Parents that can afford it aren't going to care much. And families that can't afford it don't need the stress.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
I want to say yes but..then I have to say no. You can teach and teach and teach your kids til you're blue in the face-but in the end, they do what they do. And really, if a kid can be allowed to kill four people, we can't really bitch about other kids being little *******s to other kids. Which is pathetic. But, yanno...that's the world we've given ourselves anymore. We're all victims and nothing is ever our fault.
 

jordyonbass

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
2,078
I agree with the proposal to get parents involved with their children's discipline if they're bullying, but not by financial penalty. There are better ways to engage the parents/guardians.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
It's hard b/c as mentioned above, some parents just don't care. London's already had to deal w/stupid little girls whose parents think the sun rises and sets on them, and the parents themselves who think they're above everyone b/c of their last name, which is something *they* got from *their* parents. And sadly, near as I can see, we have a society that rewards that type of thinking/behavior. Parents don't *have* to care. What does it hurt them if they're raising an asshat, really? And if the parents are actually trying and their kid is still a jerk, it's not their fault if they're trying.

ETA I was just thinking..it kind of reminds me of the education system. We put so much on the teachers and expect things out of the kids that there just isn't time enough for in the day, so then we expect the parents to work w/them daily after school to make up for it (b/c, yanno, we're not all working full time and taking care of a household), and we punish the teachers and the school for the parents not being able to do so, or not willing to do so, and we punish the kids at school then for not being able to get the work done after school b/c it was something they were supposed to work on w/their parents who couldn't or wouldn't, or they don't have internet or computer access,
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
19,744
So there's a low income family.

Son Billy doesn't see his parents because they work 2 jobs.

Billy doesn't get the attention he needs because his parents aren't home.

Billy acts out in school because he is unhappy at home.

Billy's mom now has to take 50 bucks from her paycheck.

Now Billy's mom has to pick up another shift to pay that 50 bucks, leaving Billy home...again

Yeah, no thank you.
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,925
Kids spend a large amount of their time in school- the schools need to take some responsibility themselves for educating them about bullying. If they can build relationships with parents to fix challenging behaviours that's surely better than alienating them with fines?
 

monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
18,625
No. Keep government OUT of it.

My child has been through daycare (just fine, very few issues), and is now in pre-school. She knows the rules. She knows when to go to the supervisor and tell that person if something bad is happening to her. Whomever has done the bad thing to her does NOT need to be fined! They resolve the problem then and there.

We can all learn from this. And be done with it, without spending any money. It. is. really. easy. (If only government worked this way.)
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
Snowdrop13|1450767776|3964693 said:
Kids spend a large amount of their time in school- the schools need to take some responsibility themselves for educating them about bullying. If they can build relationships with parents to fix challenging behaviours that's surely better than alienating them with fines?

the schools DO educate about bullying. Schools can only do so much in 180 days a year, during the time allotted during the day. Again, in the end, kids know what they're supposed to do, it's up to them to do it.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
26,001
I think if something like this were to be implemented, instead of a $50 fine the determent should be to have both the bully and
the parent come to the school and put in 4 (or more) hours of working around the school on the weekend. That way the kid is with
the parent, the parent can be talking to/teaching him at the same time and something positive happens for the school (weeds
pulled, plants trimmed, trash picked up...there is an endless amount of "work" that my kids school needs...it's 50 years old).

Still not sure how you would "make" the parents to do this.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,135
Gypsy|1450751848|3964590 said:
I want to say yes. But, I don't think it's going to solve anything, so no. Parents that can afford it aren't going to care much. And families that can't afford it don't need the stress.
+1.

I think it's great in theory. But a lot of the kids who act out might not have parents that can afford to pay this. And the ones that do, $50 is nothing to them, so who cares.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,135
tyty333|1450794772|3964755 said:
I think if something like this were to be implemented, instead of a $50 fine the determent should be to have both the bully and
the parent come to the school and put in 4 (or more) hours of working around the school on the weekend. That way the kid is with
the parent, the parent can be talking to/teaching him at the same time and something positive happens for the school (weeds
pulled, plants trimmed, trash picked up...there is an endless amount of "work" that my kids school needs...it's 50 years old).

Still not sure how you would "make" the parents to do this.
What about the single mom who works 4 jobs? How is she supposed to take time off for that. It's a lot different than a SAHM or a socialite who gives the nanny a day off.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
26,001
telephone89|1450800798|3964802 said:
tyty333|1450794772|3964755 said:
I think if something like this were to be implemented, instead of a $50 fine the determent should be to have both the bully and
the parent come to the school and put in 4 (or more) hours of working around the school on the weekend. That way the kid is with
the parent, the parent can be talking to/teaching him at the same time and something positive happens for the school (weeds
pulled, plants trimmed, trash picked up...there is an endless amount of "work" that my kids school needs...it's 50 years old).

Still not sure how you would "make" the parents to do this.
What about the single mom who works 4 jobs? How is she supposed to take time off for that. It's a lot different than a SAHM or a socialite who gives the nanny a day off.

Yes, I see no single determent that will work for everybody. I just see this as better than getting off paying $50. Perhaps, a choice of
3 possibilities. Perhaps, taking an online parenting/bullying class (for both parent/child) might also be a positive determent and
less invasive. Perhaps you can come up with some better ideas?
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
5,283
I don't think a $50 fine for bullying behavior is appropriate - particularly if the fine is in place of suspension/expulsion of the bully.

And, excepting fines for late-returned/lost library books and damaged/defaced/stolen school property, I don't think fines in general are appropriate in the kindergarten-through-high-school educational systems. Specifically, I don't think fines for behavior (whether paid for by child or child's parents) will result in lasting positive change in the child's school behavior.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,135
tyty333|1450801775|3964807 said:
telephone89|1450800798|3964802 said:
tyty333|1450794772|3964755 said:
I think if something like this were to be implemented, instead of a $50 fine the determent should be to have both the bully and
the parent come to the school and put in 4 (or more) hours of working around the school on the weekend. That way the kid is with
the parent, the parent can be talking to/teaching him at the same time and something positive happens for the school (weeds
pulled, plants trimmed, trash picked up...there is an endless amount of "work" that my kids school needs...it's 50 years old).

Still not sure how you would "make" the parents to do this.
What about the single mom who works 4 jobs? How is she supposed to take time off for that. It's a lot different than a SAHM or a socialite who gives the nanny a day off.

Yes, I see no single determent that will work for everybody. I just see this as better than getting off paying $50. Perhaps, a choice of
3 possibilities. Perhaps, taking an online parenting/bullying class (for both parent/child) might also be a positive determent and
less invasive. Perhaps you can come up with some better ideas?
True.

I honestly have no better ideas. :wall: I do think for CHILDREN that time/work/effort is a great idea. But for the parent, if you were working a lot to provide, having to take time off is essentially the same thing as taking money out of your pocket. It's hard. This is one of the reasons I haven't had children yet haha.
 

purplesparklies

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
744
Snowdrop13 said:
Kids spend a large amount of their time in school- the schools need to take some responsibility themselves for educating them about bullying. If they can build relationships with parents to fix challenging behaviours that's surely better than alienating them with fines?

Schools do more than they should have to with regards to teaching appropriate behavior because parents are not doing their job as parents. Behavior should be taught at home when parents can take the time to deal with the child one-on-one. Teachers simply do not have the time to teach appropriate behavior to classrooms of 25-30 kids. Teachers are there to teach academics. The curriculum requirements are very demanding and increasingly so each year. Parents who send unruly kids to school are disrupting the education of all the other children the room. Further, the schools have very little they can do in regards to consequences anymore so behavior in the classroom continues to deteriorate as the demand on teachers to teach more challenging curriculum increases.

Too many parents feel that schools should handle behavior issues at school. That is lazy parenting and a load of crap. If my children were to get into trouble at school, they know they will be in significantly more trouble at home. It happened a time or two but did not repeat because we made life much less fun at home.

As to whether parents should be fined for bullying by their children, I'm not sure. Sounds good in theory but does not seem plausible in reality. First, the term bullying is rather subjective. What is bullying to one is not considered bullying to another. Second, how will one enforce the collections? Some will genuinely not be able to pay and it serves no purpose to further burden those who are struggling. Lastly, there are children whose parents truly do what they can but their children are just not good kids. Period.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,863
Gypsy|1450751848|3964590 said:
I want to say yes. But, I don't think it's going to solve anything, so no. Parents that can afford it aren't going to care much. And families that can't afford it don't need the stress.

This, 110%
 

KaeKae

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2,377
Unfortunately, schools cannot enforce what parents should do when their children behave poorly.
Parents should take the behavior personally and actively work with the school to change the behavior.
Instead, some parents choose to either blame the school itself or leave the issues to the school to deal with.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
26,001
KaeKae|1450808298|3964876 said:
Unfortunately, schools cannot enforce what parents should do when their children behave poorly.
Parents should take the behavior personally and actively work with the school to change the behavior.
Instead, some parents choose to either blame the school itself or leave the issues to the school to deal with.

I see this happening at my daughter's school. "Your not being fair to my kid.", "My kid wouldn't have done that", etc. Instead of
working with the school to come to an agreement that will help the child/school in the long run they go into denial mode...sticks
head in hole. It's really sad...I wish someone could show that parent what their kid would be like 4 to 10 years down the road
as a teenager then another 10/16 years down the road as an adult. I'm sure the parent would still be in denial. :snooty:
 

ksinger

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
5,078
kenny|1450748831|3964567 said:
http://www.lfda.org/news/should-nh-fine-parents-50-if-their-child-bullies-another-student


SHOULD NH FINE PARENTS $50 IF THEIR CHILD BULLIES ANOTHER STUDENT?
BY: LFDA Highlights

An Oklahoma lawmaker is proposing a $50 fine for parents whose children are caught bullying, or potentially breaking other rules.

Supporters argue the proposal will get parents more involved with their children's discipline. A fine also offers teachers an alternative to suspension or expulsion, which interrupts a student's education.

On the other hand, $50 may create stress for some low income families, and conflicts with the idea that public education should be free for all students.

There is no such proposal in New Hampshire, although lawmakers will consider a bill in 2016 that lets students sue a school for failure to follow the state's anti-bullying law.

Well that one certainly got a dark chuckle, since the US all over the country is merrily dismantling public education via a plethora of methods all billed as "choice" (because individual choice is THE highest good, always). Methods like online schools (so little Johnny's behavioral and social problems won't have to be dealt with by either schools OR parents and which funnel obscene amounts of money into the coffers of "educational" software companies) vouchers (coming soon to the homeschool near YOU! And because your tax dollars should be directed by you to the education of choice, not to educating ALL kids. Ewww.) and/or magnet schools, charter schools, enterprise schools - all amounting to publicly funded private schools and which all function to "select" a specific set of students - usually along lines of race/income (intentionally or not, this IS the end result), and which summarily kick out any student who can't make the scores required, thus absolving those schools of any of the accountability for educating the highest needs kids.

This results in the shrinking of those standard publics who must legally take all comers, with a student population that is increasingly heavy in kids with special or high needs. Then, defund those publics a bit more each year, in favor of the publicly funded privates mentioned above, increasing the strain on the remaining publics, and making them even less effective, so that that the people who are defunding them can point to them and cry, "SEE??? The public schools in the US are just horrible!!", poisoning the minds of the public, and making more people choose to homeschool, do pricey privates (if they can afford them, and for that money they get admin who would never DARE fine them even if Little Johnny was a sadist), or if they can't afford a private, desperately try to get their kid into a cherry-picking charter etc, so they can be segregated and in the only remaining decently funded part of the public education system. And thus the circle - or should I say the self-fulfilling downward spiral? - is closed.

And yes, I know there are a few states who are hanging tough, but many states (mostly in the south, naturally) have done, or are doing, this as I type.

Oh, and as far as Oklahoma lawmakers, I feel good knowing, while our bridges may fall down due to lack of maintenance and our schools can't afford books, and I now live in most earthquake-prone place on the PLANET, that our legislature has ensured that I am safe from fetuses in my food, and from being judged according to Sharia. :rolleyes:
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
Well they've made it now so that if your child has behavior issues, you can just get them on an IEP and the school is supposed to/expected to provide them w/the structure they need so they can "behave" b/c you can't be bothered to tell them no or make them behave the way they're supposed to. So, don't worry about bothering your child, we'll just have to do it for you. 180 days a year for 7 hours. And ohhhh yeah, we can't tell them no or don't, we can not do anything when they freak out and punch you in the face or call you nasty names or kick you or bite you. "That's not a choice" is our option. And they can scream bloody murder until your ears are ringing and your head hurts so bad you can barely stand and we can say "Please stop. That hurts my ears". Don't remove the child or expect them to pick up after themselves or they will have to miss play time as a consequence-that's forbidden.

I've had about enough of the education system.
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
    Natural Diamond Prices - March 2023
    Natural Diamond Prices - March 2023 - 03/25
    5 Reasons to Buy New Earrings
    5 Reasons to Buy New Earrings - 03/24
    Spring Break Vacation Jewelry
    Spring Break Vacation Jewelry - 03/18
Top