Should I get a 1.98ct OMC? What's a good price?

[natascha]

Hi everyone,

Well I have been selling a couple of old rings that I don't wear anymore and was planning to keep that money until i could find a bigger stone that rings my bells.

I have found a 1,98ct (well the ring is inscribed with that weight and the stone has the right spread for it) elongated OMC at an auction and am itching to get it .

It is in a simple solitaire setting and has been grading as a conservative G. I can see some tint in my H (also an OMC at 1,07ct) and when comparing the stones the bigger one is definitively whiter. It has been graded as an SI1 due to some typical chips in the girdle (they are very small chips and don't affect the stone) and the stone is completely eye clean. It has a attractive facet pattern and strong blue fluorescence

However, I am actually looking for a stone lower on the color scale. But I bought a couple of champagne colored 0,88ct studs and in lighting situations where my white diamonds throw out white light these throw out golden light which I really don't like. While these are darker than what I am looking for in a stone ( my ideal is light brown M-P) I am now starting to worry if a lighter brown would have the same golden effect.

Second issue is that my SO is not really open for an upgrade so this would end up on my right hand.

What I am thinking is that if I can get it at a good enough price, so that if I end up finding a more "me" stone in the future or for whatever reason don't wear it that much, I could sell it at a profit.

I am going to go look at it again tomorrow. What should I keep my eyes pealed for? How can I check if the stone is over-blue?

Also what do you think is a fair price for this type of stone/ring?

 

[Gypsy]

Natasha, can you take it to an appraiser?

 

[natascha]

Not before buying since it is an auction piece. They do however have their own appraiser that is quite legitimate (tex she organizes appraiser courses for the Swedish gemological society) who I have spoken to. There is also no returns except if the item is misrepresented ( say it is actually an I then I can return it but not otherwise).

So this is kind of nerve racking.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hmmm.... do you think it has fluoro? Is that why you worry about overblue?

As to the color issue, I think the "golden light" thing you see with your champagne stones is just what warmth looks like in diamonds! I find warmer stones look golden to my eye. Apparently body tint does not technically change the spectral colors being emitted, but my experience is that warm stones look buttery or golden in some lighting, and burnt umber almost is others. I see that effect starting even at J color grade. So will you like an M-N? No clue.

What are you hoping for with this upgrade? I know a deal is tempting but you need to stay focussed on what you want, truly, and wait til you get it!

 

[natascha]

Gypsy, I had to go back and check which setting you finally decided on for your OEC. It looks stunning, when will you get it back?

I am kinda struggling a bit regarding cut. Since I live in Sweden I don't really have access to ideal cuts so I am finding it hard to know when a stone is great vs just good. Personally I don't like modern cuts, since I don't like arrows and small flashes. I love big and chunky colored flashes and that combined with my love of elongated stones leads me to get OMC's.

The thing is that I had an amazing OEC, it was seriously the most crazy disco-ball I had ever seen. I finally sold it and at the same time in the same auction house a nice OEC with same clarity but G color instead of mine that was more like a K, and 1,30ct while mine was 0.85ct, and they both sold for the same price. I have never seen another stone that was that disco- bally, so now I kind-off wonder if I should hold out for something like that one but in an elongated cut and double the size or if that is pretty much impossible.

Is it true that a cushion OMC can not have as good light return as an equally good cut OEC? This stone looks like a great cut (very nice pattern, very bright with some evenly distributed contrast, nice sparkle, etc) but how do I know if it is great or just good?

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, I had to go back and check which setting you finally decided on for your OEC. It looks stunning, when will you get it back?

Natascha, the design (which I love) ended up just not looking right with my 6.7mm ish stone when I saw it in wax and Hunt agreed with me. So we came up with a different design but it's been through a few iterations. It's a much slower process to make changes without a CAD and directly to a wax so it's taking some time. Because of the holidays, and since my ring wasn't a holiday gift, the timeline for it has been extended a bit. I'm waiting on a timeline determination. But since they don't do the platinum casting in house and the wax isn't finalized so it will be a few weeks still.

Thanks so much for remembering.

Regarding your stone. Is this an in person auction or an online one? If it's in person, I'd feel better. What is the owner claiming is the value?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Is it true that a cushion OMC can not have as good light return as an equally good cut OEC? This stone looks like a great cut (very nice pattern, very bright with some evenly distributed contrast, nice sparkle, etc) but how do I know if it is great or just good?

I have personally spent time with many ideal RBs, two OECs, and an August Vintage Cushion (ideal light performance OMC). My observation is that the *nature* of the light return from OECs is very different than the AVC I had, and I will assume all OMCs. Yes both have broader flash than an RB. But my impression is that accross lighting conditions, the OEC is more "disco bally" than the AVC, which in general has a more subdued optical performance. The scintillation in a cushion is slower, and with such large pavilion mains, the on-off pattern means when an area is "off" a larger part of the stone is "off". Some people love this look, obviouslly. For me, I prefer a faster scinitllation. I adore RBs for the speed of scintillation. And for me, OECs are a nice compromise between RBs and OMCs -- broad flash but with a faster scintillation than cushions, because the pavilion mains are more broken up, particularly in later OECs. If you like the disco ball look, which to me means a certain amount of speed to the scintillation, you may just prefer an OEC.

How do you assess the cut quality? You have to see as many diamonds as you can and educate your eyes about all the difference ways that diamonds *can* look. Then you form your own opinions about what look *you* like. Then you find a stone that does that really well

 

[natascha]

Hmmm.... do you think it has fluoro? Is that why you worry about overblue?

As to the color issue, I think the "golden light" thing you see with your champagne stones is just what warmth looks like in diamonds! I find warmer stones look golden to my eye. Apparently body tint does not technically change the spectral colors being emitted, but my experience is that warm stones look buttery or golden in some lighting, and burnt umber almost is others. I see that effect starting even at J color grade. So will you like an M-N? No clue.

What are you hoping for with this upgrade? I know a deal is tempting but you need to stay focussed on what you want, truly, and wait til you get it!

The appraiser checked the stone for me and it does have strong blue flouro, which I love. I really like the blue tint in the sun and the glowy blue in black lights.

I have had a K before, and looked at lower colors a lot in stores, and I have not seen the gold thingy in those. It is not the actual body color, which is a nice brown, but when I compare it to my white studs tex in lightning situations where my white stones have facets glowing white like a light bulb the champagne stones have the same glow but instead of white it is the same gold color as the 18kt yellow gold setting.

I am very color sensitive ( was really fun when I was looking for matching stones for earrings and they kept presenting matches which I would discard and in the end they just let me play with whole batches of uncerted stones) but I actually love light browns what I don't like is yellow and gold. So if they would glow white or light brown I would be a happy camper.

My dream stone would be elongated old cut with a ratio of at least 1.30, at least 6,5mm on the short side, not too high clarity and a light brown M and lower but still not in the fancy realm. Oh yeah and I like knowing I got a good deal and want to be able to view it in person. I have honestly been looking for something like that ( and including smaller stones too) for over 4 years and have never found it.

That why I was thinking about buying this one and if a miracle occurs and I find my dream stone in a couple of years, I could sell this one. Of course that is based on me getting a good price.

 

[natascha]

Gypsy, I had to go back and check which setting you finally decided on for your OEC. It looks stunning, when will you get it back?

Natascha, the design (which I love) ended up just not looking right with my 6.7mm ish stone when I saw it in wax and Hunt agreed with me. So we came up with a different design but it's been through a few iterations. It's a much slower process to make changes without a CAD and directly to a wax so it's taking some time. Because of the holidays, and since my ring wasn't a holiday gift, the timeline for it has been extended a bit. I'm waiting on a timeline determination. But since they don't do the platinum casting in house and the wax isn't finalized so it will be a few weeks still.

Thanks so much for remembering.

Regarding your stone. Is this an in person auction or an online one? If it's in person, I'd feel better. What is the owner claiming is the value?

That is a shame, but I know that you will find an amazing home for your stone. I can't wait to see what you will come up with.

The actual bidding is online but the viewing is in person. Last week I spent at least 20 min with it and tomorrow I am going to go look at it again. Hopefully I can look at it in the sun ( which can be an issue in Sweden, it can go 2 weeks without seeing any real sun ).

The owner is not claiming anything regarding value, they have only put in the least they would accept ( which is really low, ca $2500, what drives up the price is the bidding). So I need to decide before hand how high I will go and then stick to it. What I have realized about myself is that if I feel that I have overpaid it puts a damper on my enjoyment of the piece.

 

[natascha]

Is it true that a cushion OMC can not have as good light return as an equally good cut OEC? This stone looks like a great cut (very nice pattern, very bright with some evenly distributed contrast, nice sparkle, etc) but how do I know if it is great or just good?

I have personally spent time with many ideal RBs, two OECs, and an August Vintage Cushion (ideal light performance OMC). My observation is that the *nature* of the light return from OECs is very different than the AVC I had, and I will assume all OMCs. Yes both have broader flash than an RB. But my impression is that accross lighting conditions, the OEC is more "disco bally" than the AVC, which in general has a more subdued optical performance. The scintillation in a cushion is slower, and with such large pavilion mains, the on-off pattern means when an area is "off" a larger part of the stone is "off". Some people love this look, obviouslly. For me, I prefer a faster scinitllation. I adore RBs for the speed of scintillation. And for me, OECs are a nice compromise between RBs and OMCs -- broad flash but with a faster scintillation than cushions, because the pavilion mains are more broken up, particularly in later OECs. If you like the disco ball look, which to me means a certain amount of speed to the scintillation, you may just prefer an OEC.

How do you assess the cut quality? You have to see as many diamonds as you can and educate your eyes about all the difference ways that diamonds *can* look. Then you form your own opinions about what look *you* like. Then you find a stone that does that really well

Oh your response was exactly the type of info I was looking for. That was exactly my impression, that OMCs have bigger flashes but they seem more "sleepy" and slower to turn of and on. I think that while I like the speed that my OEC had, it is more important for me that the stone is elongated. And since I don't like modern cuts ( I don't like the small splinters that go of and on all the time) I believe that leaves me with a bit slower scintillation. However, both my e-ring stone and they one I am looking at now don't look like an AVC, the tables are tiny and round and the mains are all the same size.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hmmm.... do you think it has fluoro? Is that why you worry about overblue?

As to the color issue, I think the "golden light" thing you see with your champagne stones is just what warmth looks like in diamonds! I find warmer stones look golden to my eye. Apparently body tint does not technically change the spectral colors being emitted, but my experience is that warm stones look buttery or golden in some lighting, and burnt umber almost is others. I see that effect starting even at J color grade. So will you like an M-N? No clue.

What are you hoping for with this upgrade? I know a deal is tempting but you need to stay focussed on what you want, truly, and wait til you get it!

The appraiser checked the stone for me and it does have strong blue flouro, which I love. I really like the blue tint in the sun and the glowy blue in black lights.

I have had a K before, and looked at lower colors a lot in stores, and I have not seen the gold thingy in those. It is not the actual body color, which is a nice brown, but when I compare it to my white studs tex in lightning situations where my white stones have facets glowing white like a light bulb the champagne stones have the same glow but instead of white it is the same gold color as the 18kt yellow gold setting.

For overblue you can take it in the sun and look at it and see if it looks hazy or milky. Apparently over blue is very rare so it is not so much of a concern really.

I see what you mean now about the gold. Likely a function of the tint of the stone. I can't tell you if an M or thereabouts will do that. I found my M AVC looked golder all the time, but in natural daylight it looked white like you want.

 

[natascha]

Well there was no sun to be had today but I did go and spend another 30 min with the ring. It looks gorgeous . I really really want it.

From what I can gather from cruising jewlesbyericagrace and oldworlddiamonds and checking against the pricing in modern cushions, it looks like a > 1,80ct , H ; SI OMC are going for at least $10 000 (this one is 1,98ct G SI1 but wanted some margins).

I finally decided that I will take the money I have made from selling my old stuff and put that as my bid for the ring. If I can get the ring for that amount it will be a really good deal so I don't think I will win . But I don't really feel comfortable taking from my normal savings for a 2ct diamond that I don't actually need. I have a beautiful engagement ring stone that while I have not been able to wear it during the last months I am hoping to be able to do so soon.

I am freaking out a bit however about buying something so expensive just because I want it. How do you guys feel about putting big chunks of change into something you are just planning on wearing and that you just want because it sparkles?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I find that secondary market prices are about half what retailers like OWD and JBEG charge, for example ebay.

All of my jewelry was bought just because I want it and because it sparkles That said, I only like smoking hot deals these days. Like, 1/3 to 1/2 retail if possible.

 

[natascha]

I find that secondary market prices are about half what retailers like OWD and JBEG charge, for example ebay.

All of my jewelry was bought just because I want it and because it sparkles That said, I only like smoking hot deals these days. Like, 1/3 to 1/2 retail if possible.

I am the pretty much the same. I like very good deals otherwise I kinda get irritated. Only that since I like old cuts it's hard to get a handle on what retail should be. Over here the only way of getting your hands on old cuts is through auction houses and pawn auctions. Problem with pawn auctions is that there are lots of professionals that buy the good stuff for reselling. It is so frustrating when you fall in love with something that is a good deal and those people swoop in and drive the prices up.

What is your experience with reselling?

I mean for example as a percentage of jbeg and owd 's prices, how much can you get at a resell?

 

[Gypsy]

I think that, since you have seen it in person and spent time with it and know you love it, you can go higher than you would normally for a second hand ring. For me, there is value in seeing a piece in person and knowing you love it before you buy it. I do think that if you go over 10K you will regret it. But I think that going up to 8 is pretty safe. And yes, if you can get it for 5-7k it would be awesome. Between 8-10 is going to be the risky zone where you have to balance everything to find your comfort zone.

 

[TristanC]

Hello, it sounds to me as if you actually love the ring and would like to wear it. And that you love the stone as well.

So the point about buying to perhaps profit from it in the future if you have no use for it might be your rationale mind trying to convince yourself that this is a worthwhile investment.

Whilst you may earn money from it, that should really not be your motivation for purchase. If you are going to wear it and enjoy it, then please do go ahead if you can afford it. If you have a healthy savings account you can possibly treat yourself to something lovely too.

I wouldn't buy a diamond to profit from it in the future - there are better financial instruments for that. But for an object that makes me smile, and that I can enjoy? (These are different objects to different people) By all means.

Hope you win it if you want it at auction

 

[natascha]

I think that, since you have seen it in person and spent time with it and know you love it, you can go higher than you would normally for a second hand ring. For me, there is value in seeing a piece in person and knowing you love it before you buy it. I do think that if you go over 10K you will regret it. But I think that going up to 8 is pretty safe. And yes, if you can get it for 5-7k it would be awesome. Between 8-10 is going to be the risky zone where you have to balance everything to find your comfort zone.

Thank you Gypsy! I appreciate you chiming in on this, especially with your current experience with reselling stuff. What ballpark would you say is reasonable to get for it if I would end up selling the ring. I am kind off a -map the worst possible scenario kind off gal-, so I like knowing how much I could recoup if I ever needed to ( not really going to happen since I have enough on the savings account, live in Sweden, and to be honest am considered to be attractive on the job market even in this economy).

Oh I am not planning to go over 10K, that is still heart attack territory for me. I mean I have more and a lot bigger diamonds than anyone I know in person, that's why I come over here to get my fixes

 

[natascha]

Hello, it sounds to me as if you actually love the ring and would like to wear it. And that you love the stone as well.

So the point about buying to perhaps profit from it in the future if you have no use for it might be your rationale mind trying to convince yourself that this is a worthwhile investment.

Whilst you may earn money from it, that should really not be your motivation for purchase. If you are going to wear it and enjoy it, then please do go ahead if you can afford it. If you have a healthy savings account you can possibly treat yourself to something lovely too.

I wouldn't buy a diamond to profit from it in the future - there are better financial instruments for that. But for an object that makes me smile, and that I can enjoy? (These are different objects to different people) By all means.

Hope you win it if you want it at auction

Thank you for your wise words. It really is as you say my rationale mind trying to convince myself that oh I am not just buying it because I like the sparkles, it will actually keep its value .

Thing is I am an accounting mayor, so I before making unnecessary purchases I always seem to try to justify it to myself. Tex I like traveling and usually justify that by saying I need it to keep sane

For me, I love what I call my sparklies, they make me happy. But to satisfy my inner accountant I want things that are fairly liquid and that hold their value. That's why I have learnt to only go for the good deals where I can recoup the majority of my costs.

 

[Gypsy]

I understand wanting to recoup. Especially since you said you want to wear this until you find your dream upgrade-- in that event you want to know you can recoup toward your larger stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think you can resell for about the same percentage I mentioned about buying: Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 retail, depending on the item and its desirability and your ability to find the right target market. Maybe more if it is very special. Maybe more if you consign with a known jeweler. Ideally you buy at the 1/3 mark and sell at the 1/2 I suppose, if you are like me and have a collection with a revolving door

I am like you I think. I buy things I love and would happily keep if that is the way it goes (the heart). But I only want to buy things that I can probably sell for what I paid (the head), or close enough that a loss is acceptable, because I enjoy change as much as I enjoy ownership.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Perhaps these photos will help .. it is a true antique OEC, a 8 main modern cushion and an August Vintage Cushion. I am still new to OECs but I love them. You can stare at them forever and just admire the disco ball and all the different flashing colors. I have seen the same effect in the OMCs with a more flower like center (as opposed to maltese cross).

Don't mind how dirty the 3 diamonds are .. any specs and blobs are dirt versus inclusions.