Shocked at LOW price of RCDC Original Radiant Diamond- Opinions please!!!

[Winnme1]

I hope to be engaged soon (within the next month) and last week went downtown to look at diamonds, specifically original radiant (RCDC) diamonds . My boyfriend knows how picky I am and has told me to pick out my diamond and mounting and then take him to see it when I have finally made up my mind. I have done a lot of research (thanks to pricescope) and therefore that day spoke with the lady in great detail about what I wanted. After looking at non branded diamonds and comparing them to the original radiants, the choice was easy. I''m a perfectionist, and I want the PERFECT diamond, so I knew I wanted an original radiant! The sparkle, brillance, shine, fire was so much better than everything else I saw. Not to mention that I knew I was getting the best cut diamond instead of guessing that it would be well cut.

Anyhow to make a long story short, I explained to the woman that I was also looking at another jewelery store and that I was pretty sure they had my business and it would be hard to sway me. She basically said she would do what ever she had to to get my business. She asked what my budget was and I told her I did not want to spend anymore than 6500 on the diamond and with the mounting and tax my e ring would be no more than 8000. (My bf just graduated college and I think he is giving me a pretty nice budget to begin with so I wanted to be sure that I would not be going over it.)

Eileen told me that she would get in some RCDC diamonds for me in my price range and give me a call when they arrived. She called me a few hours ago to tell me she got in a few diamonds. The one that has me most excited and definitely confused is the one that is 1.28 H color SI2. When I asked her how much it was she told me $5,250!!!! Ok....so I''m a bit shocked..... An original RCDC diamond with those specs for $5250??????? Does anyone else fine this a bit odd??? I would realy appreciate opinions from experts and anyone else. I am not sure if she quoted me so low because she wants my business or what but I know the diamond is real because she will give me both of the original certificates. (GIA and the Grossbard one) I have not seen the diamond yet, I plan on seeing it on Friday. From what I know RCDC diamonds are always well cut. The only thing I can think of is that it is not eye clean? She gets the stone in tomorrow so I may call and ask her to see what she thinks. I spoke with her a long time though and she alreayd told me that if it was not eye cldan she would not have me in to see it becuase she knows how I want the "PERFECT" stone. I hope to hear from you soon! Thanks!


Meg

 

[Rod]

Ok.....admittedly, I don''t know anything about RCDC. Is that a branded Radiant cut? But, I did a Pricescope your diamond and found 8 diamonds in the range you are considering and the prices ranged from $4200 to $4800. So, it''s possible the diamond you will see could be an excellent stone and the fact that it''s not too too far from on-line pricing could be OK. But you''ll have to see it person to know if it speaks to you.

If you could, ask for a Sarin or an Asset and an Ideal Scope of the diamond. Do you know who graded the diamond? Every Radiant I saw above was graded by GIA, which is good. There are, I''m sure other PS''ers who know loads about the radiant cut. Give them some more information and they''ll be happy to offer you advice.

Good luck and congratulations on getting engaged

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/21/2006 2:54:11 PM
Author: Rod
Ok.....admittedly, I don''t know anything about RCDC. Is that a branded Radiant cut?

RCDC is the company founded by Henry Grossbard, who invented the radiant cut in the 1970s. He patented the design, but the patent has since expired, so anyone who wants to cut a "radiant" to his original specs can do so.

So, in a sense, it''s a "branded radiant cut" but it would be more accurate to call it the Radiant cut. The Radiant was probably the first truly branded diamond. There were other cutting innovations before and after it, but Grossbard was the first to patent his design and defend it successfully against imitators, such that radiants continue to be connected with him when everyone has forgotten who invented the princess.

Whether RCDC radiants are better than radiants you might find elsewhere is a different issue and one I express no opinion on.

 

[Winnme1]

CaptAubrey,

If you don''t mind I would love to hear your opinion on non branded radiants vs. rcdc radiants. Either in a private post or on this post. I have read that it is possible to find just as nice non branded ones just that it is harded to find them becuase it is hard to find a well cut radiant. What is your opinion about the price of the rcdc radiant that the jeweler has quoted me? (5250) I would be interested in hearing your opinion. Also do you own a radiant? If so I''d love to see pics, I just love radiants and think they are so beautiful and unique! Thanks so much!

Meghan

 

[Winnme1]

Rod,


Thank you for responding to my post! No one EVER responds to my posts whether I ask questions or posts pics

so I appreciate that you did! As for the difference in price the reason being is becuase RCDC diamonds are typically MUCH more expensive because they are branded. That is one of the reasons why I am so shocked at the price. I guess time will tell. Do you know what the depth and table were on the ones that you saw on pricescope? (If they were both in the 60-65''s than in my opinion they were probably well cut) I am not saying this means they were definitely well cut but the radiant diamonds I have looked at in person tend to be well cut when the depth and tables are both in the 60-65%. Thanks again for the kind words!

 

[Winnme1]

Oh and just so everyone knows the diamond (Grossbard one) was also graded by the GIA.

 

[Shay37]

I think that the original radiants have to fall within certain cut parameters just like for ideal cut rounds. I don't know that much about them. I think that they are probably very pretty. If that one is eye clean, I would jump on it at that price. It seems like a great deal for an original at that size through a B&M.

Also, please don't be offended if sometimes people don't answer you. I don't often answer questions about fancy cuts because I don't know enough to be helpful. I suspect a lot of people here are just like me. Happy hunting for the PERFECT diamond.

shay

edited for typo

 

[belle]

Date: 8/21/2006 5:18:42 PM
Author: Winnme1
Rod,


Thank you for responding to my post! No one EVER responds to my posts whether I ask questions or posts pics

heheheheehe....well, you've only had 4 posts! give us a chance!

rod is a sweety (can i say that rod?) and always makes time to help newbies out. most people here don't attempt to answer these 'number' questions on fancy cuts because it is really difficult to determine what the numbers mean.
if you are looking at original radiant cuts, then the numbers must be pretty good. they did invent the radiant after all!
the best thing to do is see as many as you can and let your eyes decide. hopefully the price will end up being good too.

best of luck!

 

[Rod]

Date: 8/21/2006 5:18:42 PM
Author: Winnme1
Rod,


Thank you for responding to my post! No one EVER responds to my posts whether I ask questions or posts pics

so I appreciate that you did! As for the difference in price the reason being is becuase RCDC diamonds are typically MUCH more expensive because they are branded. That is one of the reasons why I am so shocked at the price. I guess time will tell. Do you know what the depth and table were on the ones that you saw on pricescope? (If they were both in the 60-65's than in my opinion they were probably well cut) I am not saying this means they were definitely well cut but the radiant diamonds I have looked at in person tend to be well cut when the depth and tables are both in the 60-65%. Thanks again for the kind words!

Gosh Meg, I hope it hasn't been PS that you've posted on and never gotten a response. The depth's were in the 60 - 65 range. Honestly, you're the first person I've come across who asked about RCDC Radiants. I'm just a bit more knowledgeable on rounds, so I wouldn't want to guess on a Radiant and offer you advice that could lead to not the best purchase. I can say that on Fancy cuts, numbers only tell a part of the story. They're a good beginning, but your eyes will tell you the most. Of course, I wouldn't buy any stone whose depth was so deep that the stones weight was eaten up in depth. I'm a big table fan though, so a larger table for me, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway, I hope you find the stone that sets your heart on fire. It's an exciting thing to find that several million year old piece of carbon and know it's flashing fire and scintillation just for you!!!

EDIT: Gosh Belle! Now, I'm blushing!!!

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/21/2006 5:10:51 PM
Author: Winnme1
CaptAubrey,

If you don''t mind I would love to hear your opinion on non branded radiants vs. rcdc radiants. Either in a private post or on this post. I have read that it is possible to find just as nice non branded ones just that it is harded to find them becuase it is hard to find a well cut radiant. What is your opinion about the price of the rcdc radiant that the jeweler has quoted me? (5250) I would be interested in hearing your opinion. Also do you own a radiant? If so I''d love to see pics, I just love radiants and think they are so beautiful and unique! Thanks so much!

Meghan

Unfortunately, I have no such opinions.

"Radiant" is just a cut style, and my feeling about diamonds--something that goes especially for fancy cuts--is that each should be judged on its own merits.

I do like radiant cuts, especially in fancy colors. For fancy color diamonds, I think it''s the best design around.

 

[Winnme1]

My everyone here is quite friendly! Thank you to EVERYONE who has responded to my post thus far! I have never had so many responses before. I posted on July 27 (Questions about radiant diamond) or something along those lines and it included a pic of a radiant diamond ring on my finger. and the GIA specs with it. (This was not an original radiant) One person responded to the post answering my questions. I didn''t mean to be rude, or sound like I was complaining about people never responding , I just have read so many posts about radiants and everyone elses have been answered but mine. The same thing happens on the DiamondTalk forum. I really do appreciate those of you that have responded to my post so far though!

So most of you that know anything about RCDC diamonds agree that for the specs I listed above, H color SI1 1.28 tcw the price of 5,250 is an amazingly good deal????? I''d love to hear from those of you that have RCDC and if there is still the light leakage because that is what I am trying to prevent! If anyone can think of any questions I need to ask and you could let me know I''d appreciate it. Thank you!

Meg

 

[Winnme1]

Oh and I COMPLETELY agree that the best way to tell how beautiful, well cut etc a diamond is, is simply by looking at it with your eyes. When I look at this RCDC diamond on Friday I plan on looking at in in the store and outside in the sun, shade etc to make sure I get view of it everywhere.

 

[mrssalvo]

Meg,
there are only a few Pricescoper's that probably really know enough about radiants to comment on the specs and most of the time I see them comment that you really have to see radiants to know. sounds like you've got a winner though. maybe you can stick around and help others understand radiants

 

[kcoursolle]

I am not an expert on radiants, but I do own one and I did quite a bit of research before buying. I think the price quote is very reasonable for an origional radiant. It probably helped that you bargained with them. I looked up some prices for "well cut" radiants on jamesallen.com and the price they gave you for the origional radiant seems only *slightly* more than the going rates for the more well-cut stones at james allen. I would expect to pay a little more for a branded stone, so this seems very reasonable. By well cut, to me in a radiant this means D 60-65, T 60-65, at least VG/VG polish/symmetry. However, even by this definition as you pointed out it''s hard to find a well-cut stone. Be sure to take a good look at this radiant in person and in a variety of lighting. To me, there is a huge difference between various light sources and the appearance of radiant stones. Also, radiants show a bit more color than rounds, so H is probably as low as you would want to go. However, I wouldn''t worry too much about the SI2 clarity, radiants hide inclusions a bit better than rounds. But, be sure to look at it with a loupe and ask if it is eye-clean from all angles.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Sounds like a lot of stone for the money, but then again all radiants sound that way. Maybe this one is perfect for you.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

I hope it makes your heart skip a beat!

 

[Winnme1]

kcoursolle,



How great to see another radiant lover out there! They truly are beautiful! I would love to know the specs/price and where you bought your stone if you don''t mind as I am on a MAD search for the perfect radiant. Is yours and original/more rect/square? and what type of setting did you choose for it? I see that everyone likes the traps/trillions or half moons. While they are pretty I have never been a fan of the two stone look. (If that is what you chose I am sure it is gorgeous, I just have always preferred the little diamonds on the band.) I am fairly certain that I want my band to be very very tiny (about .25 -.50 tcw at MOST) shared prong round diamonds. This is not something seen very often with radiants. I am not sure if it particularly "matches" with a radiant but it is the look I prefer.

I completely agree with the table and depth being between 60-65% as well as vg symmetry and polish. I plan on examining the stone inside and out with and without the loupe and would only buy it if it was completely eye clean. As for the color, the jeweler told me that with RCDC stones and how well cut they are, you can go down to an I color and they still face up extrememly white. I have not seen one of these and she did not get one of these in but I am not sure how I feel about this or if I agree with it or not.

I am also curious if in the radiants you looked at (Original or not) if you noticed a fish eye or extreme light leakage. This is something I desparately want to avoid. I almost was ready to buy a diamond and it wasnt until I took it outside and then brought it back inside and walked around the store that I noticed a thin black line across the middle. I asked the jewler and he told me it was the light reflection. I looked at it with a loupe and it wasn''t an inclusion but it bothered me a bit. Later that night when I got home and I was examining the pics I had taken (Abouth 30 some) of this diamond and mounting with the diamond did I notice it was VERY evident in EVERY picture. That is when I noticed that was the light leakage and because the stone was not well cut. (The depth was 72 and table was 68 or vice versa and stone was 1.32 - this stone was 6500 and NOT RCDC) Anyhow my point is did you notice that a lot of radiants you looked at had this light leakage effect? If you looked at RCDC radiants, did they have them as well? If non branded ones did not, were they indeed the ones with table/depth''s in the 60-65''s?

Anyone else who has a radiant or experience with radiants and could answer these questions I''d appreciate it. Also I''d really like to know if people think an Original RCDC stone is the BEST radiant to buy and if it ensures I will get an extremely well cut stone. (From the research I have done,I am under the impression that it does, and I look forward to hearing opinions from others - positive or negative!) Thanks!

 

[kcoursolle]

Hi Meg, great to hear from another radiant lover indeed. Since you don't like the three-stone look and you like small sidestones, you might just like my ring setting. I'll try to attach a pic. My radiant is a bit smaller than yours, and I set it in a thin split shank. I bought it from dirtcheapdiamonds/jamesallen.com back when they had a signature radiant series. Their signature radiants were all pretty well-cut. I am extremely happy with it. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to see an origional radiant in person, only online pictures. However, it does seem that they keep the proportions tight, so I'm sure this will be a gorgeous stone. It took me a long time to find a nice well-cut radiant. For whatever reason, most seem to be very poorly cut. I noticed a little bit of the light leakage problem as you did. What I noticed even more was a terrible problem with symmetry, most of the facet lines looked terrible under a loupe. Another problem I saw frequenly was that they were often cut too deep! It seemed like so many were cut at about 70% depth, and they looked too small.

Here are the specs on mine. The depth is ever so slightly out of ideal, but it gives it a nice spread and I think it looks gorgeous.
.74 carats
6.29*4.97mm
F color
59.9% depth
65% table
VG symmetry
VG polish
Girdle thin
Crown 9%

 

[kcoursolle]

Here''s a hand pic, my finger size is 4.5.

 

[kcoursolle]

A couple more things I thought of. What are the specs on the origional 1.28 H SI2? Also, as far as light leakage goes, radiants will display this more than rounds even if they are well-cut unfortunately. However, what you were probably noticing is that extremely deep radiants show an area in the center in the center of light leakage. This shouldn''t be a problem with stones in the 60-65 depth range. I would start to worry about fish-eye when you get below depth below 58%, this will look like a white cloudy circle in the stone.
Are you looking for a rectangular stone or a square stone? I''ve found it''s even harder to find a nicely proportioned rectangular radiant vs. a square radiant. You can still find one though. As far as origional radiants being better than generic radiants...I''m not so sure. Since I haven''t seen an origional radiant, it''s hard for me to say. However, there are generic radiants out there that are cut to excellent proportions that might be as beautiful or more beautiful than an origional radiant, but you are probably right that it is harder to find a good cut in a generic radiant.

 

[coda72]

There isn''t much of a premium for Original Radiants. When I was looking around a bit, I was offered an 1.25 carat H, SI2 for $5400 in a B&M store. So, it''s not much off from your price. Be sure that the H color doesn''t bother you. I found that it showed a bit more color than I would like, so for me, I would not go below a G. But it may not bother you at all. Also, polish and symmetry doesn''t have to be very good or better to have a well-cut stone. My polish and symmetry is only good, but my stone is very well cut. Radiants do tend to leak more light than round stones, but there''s not much you can do about that. It''s just the way they are. You may see a white ring in the center in very bright sunlight. That doesn''t mean the stone is not well-cut. My stone displays this look in bright sunlight, and while I''m not in love with that look, it''s just a characteristic of my stone and probably quite a few other radiants also.

 

[Eva17]

The thing I love about my square radiant is that i see so many different looks in it. With one glance i cleary see the X in the center, with another it is the sparkly crushed ice, another the brilliance of a round, and another one of the boxy quarters, or a triangular piece pops it''s head through.

Always something beautiful to see!

 

[Winnme1]

Kcoursolle, Coda and Eva, thanks for responding, you have all been VERY helpful! So about this light leakage thing what exactly can I do to avoid it? Should either my table or depth be higher than the other? Also I am not 100% sure that what I saw on my diamond was the light leakage this is just my opinion. ( I wish I could find my cord to show the pics to you ladies and everyone else and get your opinion, it was a straight black line across the entire diamond that was very evident ESPECIALLY in the sun and it showed up very clearly on the pics I took)

Kcoursolle, I do not yet know the complete specs on the Original radiant because I am waiting for the jeweler to call me back so we can set up a time for me to come in a see it. I know that RCDC diamonds Depth and Table are altered according to Grossbard''s standards so I know they will be different than traditional measurents. By the way your radiant is absolutely gorgeous and looks MUCH bigger than the size you stated! Is yours rectangle or square? When you said you bought a signature radiant what exactly did you mean? I really like your setting and have recently been thinking about something along those lines but am wondering if they could do it with very tiny shared prong diamonds. What do you think? What type of diamonds are in your split shank setting? Also, do you think the setting could be made for less than 1500. I do not want the diamonds the whole way around, maybe 4-6 tiny ones on each side leading up to my main diamond. Does that make sense? How high is your diamond set? Did you decide how to have it set? I am curious about that as well. I want my diamond to be set so that my diamond well look as big as possible. Any ideas? You also made a point about how the symmetry looked off, especially under the loupe. How were you able to tell that? What would you say would be the ideal depth for a diamond of the size I am looking at? (1.2 Thanks for your help!

Also I still would like to hear opinions of those of you that have seen original RCDC radiants and non branded radiants and which you think is better. Coda, I am shocked that the price is the same for RCDC stones. Did you ever see an RCDC stone as well? Would love to hear your opinion on both

 

[kcoursolle]

Hi Meg, my stone is slightly rectangular (6.29*4.97), I edited the thread above and added some specs. I think you could find a setting you are describing for $1500 in white gold no problem, but you would have to pay more for platinum. The height on my setting is about 5mm, pretty moderate I suppose. The diamonds in mine are little tiny round diamonds. They are set in a way called micro pave or bead set. The total thickness of each band is about 1.3mm-1.4mm. I wouldn''t go any thinner than that for security. I think the diamond will look it''s biggest if you stay away from deep stones (aka, depth over 65%). Also, very thin bands seem to do wonders for my ring! I get comments all the time about how huge it looks for a .74. A setting that is slightly higher will also make it look bigger.
As far as light leakage goes, some is inevitable...just try to keep the depth from 60-65 and the table at 60-65 and trust your eyes. As far as the table being larger/smaller than the depth, I think this is mostly personal preference. Personally, I like a table that is slightly larger than the depth, but others here disagree. Another thing, I like the look of crown percentages between 8-15%, I saw a lot of radiants with less than 8% crown that looked flat on top and lacked fire. Trust your eyes and get a look that you like. As far as symmetry, I saw a lot of radiants that under a loupe looked as if the facets were crooked and smeared together instead of having crisp symmetrical facets...does this make sense? Good luck viewing this stone, I can''t wait to hear more about it.

 

[kcoursolle]

One more thing. You asked about signature series from James Allen/Dirt Cheap Diamonds. James allen/DCD used to have a line of diamonds that they felt were cut well and called them their "signature series." Included in them was a line of signature cut radiants, and I purchased one of these. Unfortunately, they don''t carry this line anymore. However, on the plus side they seem to be adding quite a very pictures to their online inventory. They are still a great place to buy a radiant from.

 

[Eva17]

From reading up on lots of old threads, I see Coda is the way to go with radiant questions.

As with many fancies, radiant can be prone to bow tie. Especially rectangle. Radiants do have a line across the middle. Horizontal and a verticle line. They are quartered. But unless the black line that you were looking at was a bow tie, the lines should not be black.

You can get around that by going with a square. I think the table can be a bit larger with a square than a rectangle. It helps with the bowtie also. But needs to be cut very precise. A good cutter who takes the time can minimize the bowtie by playing with the %.

Radiant need to be seen. You shouldn''t just go with the paper numbers. They have lots of different personalities.

If any of my info is incorrect, I''m sure Coda can set me straight

 

[Winnme1]

Hi everyone,


Thank you for all of the info so far! I have another questions regarding the original RCDC diamond. I recently read on another thread about diamonds that are 1A or 1B as rated on gemappraisers.com. I am not quite sure what this is and if it can be done by an original RCDC diamond. Could any or you experts please explain it to me and if it means anything. Also what about the sarin report and all those machines people use to tell light leakage and such?

I''m also curious as to how I should have the dimaond set to make it appear bigger than what it is? (4 prong, 6 prong etc?) Also is their a name if I want diamonds around the prong area? How much does that typically cost if the diamonds are very tiny? Still hoping to hear from any of your that own RCDC diamonds, what you think of them and how much they were. (Or more of you that looked at them and your opinions and the prices they were) Thanks!

 

[Winnme1]

Hi everyone, I''m going to see the diamond on Friday morning but when I talked to Eileen today she told me that there was a mistake with the info she gave me and that the RCDC diamond is not an SI2 but an SI1 and therefore is not 5,250 but 5,800. Do you think that is too expensive? I don''t think so and I feel a little more safe with the SI1. She said the stone is gorgeous and that she is sure it will be my favorite even though she got in two other non branded radiants for me to look at (I don''t remmeber exact specs but they were around 1.30- 1.38ish and maybe G-H color yeah at least a grand more.) She said that there is no doubt in her mind that I will want the RCDC. I hope 5,800 isn''t too high!

 

[coda72]

$5800 is an ok price. I''d probably try to get a few hundred off of that, but if she won''t negotiate, it''s not a terrible price. You were asking about the gemppraiser.com chart and here is the link for it.

http://www.gemappraisers.com/oldcutgraderules.asp

For radiants it''s best to get 1A or 1B especially for a generic one. I''ve never seen a radiant set with 6 prongs, only 4, so I can''t tell you how a 6 prong setting would look. Do you want diamonds going up the prongs? I know some of the designers like Leon Mege and Michael B do this, but I''m not sure I''d have a regular jeweler attempt it. I don''t know anyone who posts on here anymore that has a RCDC diamond. I''ve seen a few, and they were very nicely cut. Just be careful with the H color; it was a bit too much color for me. It may be fine for you though. By the way, I''m not an expert at radiants, I just own one and like them a lot.