She''s mad because I am not moving fast enough

[joker98]

I don''t know what to do. She say that she knows she wants to marry me and spend the rest of her life with me and she can''t understand why I am not ready to do the same. I have told her plenty of times that I love her with all of my heart and that I think she is the one but that I was just not ready to get married yet. We just celebrated our 1 year anniversary a couple of months ago. I was planning on proposing on Christmas. I don''t know what to do. I have already asked for (and recieved) her father''s blessing. I ordered the ring back in September and it won''t be ready for 6-8 weeks and she is getting mad that I am not "ready" to commit to marrying her. Right now she will be totally surprised but I don''t know how to keep her calm for two more months without giving the surprise away.

 

[shaneyboy]

whatever you do.....DON'T BLOW THE WHOLE THING BY TELLING HER THE THAT YOU HAVE A RING ON THE WAY!!!. It's a surprise that every girl who is in a serious relationship will cheerish and speak about for the rest of their lives. Don't spoil it for her...maybe, you can give her a promise ring or something just in the meantime...tell her that you promise to take care of here...etc, etc, but don't spend a lot of money on the promise ring, cuz, you've just spent a lot on her engagement ring. Speak to her about your feelings, don't just tell her that you love her, let her know how she makes you feel about life, about yourself, what positive impacts she has had on your life and the life of others. Sweet-talk your woman, man. After all...she is YOUR woman, show her that you're the man in the situation, don't let her pressure you into telling her about the surprise, just be very patient with her and speak to her in a loving, yet firm manner, if you do this, she will get to know that she is really special to you and this may just be what she needs to know right now. It seems to me that she wants to know exactly where she stands in your life, and probably, you may want to design and write our a personalized card or something. Be creative. All the best to you in your endeavours, and the best thing you can do, after this whole proposal thing is over, take her to your computer and let her read your posts here on this forum so she can see how much effort and energy that you put into making her engagement proposal the best ever!
-Shane

 

[Morticia]

Hmmm..... I am probably driving my BF nuts too. He told me to mark down things that I like, which I have, and that he and I would go look at stones together. Well, no word on when we're looking at stones. Sooo.... I am trying not to ask him about it but he started it with the whole thing in the first place. Such a tease. Anyway, what I would suggest telling your GF is that you love her, can see yourself marrying her someday but want the whole engagement to be a surprise. Don't tell her about Christmas, just say it will happen, and when she least expects it. Tell her to have faith and be patient.




Good luck!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/13/2004 3:21:23 PM joker98 wrote:

I have told her plenty of times that I love her with all of my heart and that I think she is the one but that I was just not ready to get married yet. I was planning on proposing on Christmas. I don't know what to do. I have already asked for (and recieved) her father's blessing. I ordered the ring back in September and it won't be ready for 6-8 weeks and she is getting mad that I am not 'ready' to commit to marrying her. Right now she will be totally surprised but I don't know how to keep her calm for two more months without giving the surprise away.

----------------

I would be absolutely livid if my boyfriend told me that he wasn't ready to be married. That is a flat out rejection when the truth is you are planning on asking her. I think you are walking dangerously on that "she may walk" line.

Having the proposal be a surprise should take a back burner to her feelings. I doubt whether "mad" describes her feeling. She is being rejected. I think there may be other ways of "putting her off" - like "don't you want to be surprised" smirking w/ "patience is a virtue".

Sorry to be so blunt. But, if the situation is what you wrote, I would be feeling very powerless & sad rearing it's head as "mad".

 

[JCJD]

Let's get this situation straight first. Have you:

(1) Told her you're not ready for marriage as a ruse to your proposal plans, meaning you actually ARE ready for marriage but want to *really* surprise her?

-or-

(2) Told her you're not ready for marriage because you AREN'T ready for marriage, and are planning on proposing just to make her happy and keep her around until you are ready?

These are two very different situations, and the answer to your question hinges on which situation you are in.

JCJD

 

[joker98]

JCJD - I am ready to marry her. It is all part of the ruse. Before I met her I was certain that I would never get married. That I would never find anyone that makes me happy or meets the standards that I set. That is, until I met her. She is my life now. Everything I do or think about is with our future in mind and making her happy. I just want it to be a surprise. A BIG one. She has been talking about marriage since probably the 6 months mark. I wasn't ready back then but I know now what I want and she is it, but she still thinks we are at least 6 months off.

fire&ice - I don't think I am walking any sort of fine line. It is impossible to explain the dynamics of our relationships in a single post. I can only say that I have been totally honest with this woman and I am totally in love with her. It is not rejection since she hasn't asked me, and she won't. When we first discussed marriage I told her that I wasn't ready and it wasn't a lie... then. I am in love with her and she is the only one for me and I see us spending the rest of our lives together but I don't think there is anything wrong with someone being "not ready". Its a fact of life and if you choose to be with that person you will wait until they are "ready" or until you can wait no longer. That's like the first "I love you" what do you do if you don't feel the same way? End the relationship? You wait until you are both caught up reading to the same paragraph and then you turn the page of life together. And your right, it is a powerless situation but there is nothing that one can do about it. That is just a fact of life. It has always been that way and it will always be. You will always be at someone else's mercy in a relationship, but that what makes it so great. Being able to put your trust and love into one basket and hand it to someone and have them carry it along with them for the rest of their lives, without dropping it. If one party isn't ready for marriage but the other is, the one party has to make an assessment of their feelings. Do you love this person and does this person love you, do you see you spending the rest of your lives together? Are you willing to wait for this person? And if you are willing to wait, how long can you wait? If someone walked everytime the other person wasn't ready to get married at the same instant, not a whole lot of people would be walking down that aisle.


- edit -
This is kind of a sore spot for me because I have had this conversation/arguement with her several times. I always told her that when I felt the same way she did I would let her know. I thought it would be a gradual process but I really can't put my finger on when it happened. There I was one day, and I was thinking about her and how much I missed her and wished she was around and what I do would do without her, things like that and I realized that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. That I wanted to marry her and have a family. It is funny because I was nervous and anxious when I first started, but now I am so eager and I'm glad I don't have the ring because I might not be able to wait if I did. The hardest part, and I think you guys know what I'm talking about, is being so happy that you are going to share the rest of your life with this one person and not being able to share it with them just yet. It's killin me... especially when we have these fights because I am ready and I can't say that I am ready because if I was ready then why haven't I asked the question yet. I am not (or at least she thinks) that I am not one of those people who would make a big deal out of things or ask on a holiday or anything like that because when I make up my mind for action I do it. So that is why I can't say that I am ready because my way of saying I was ready would be with a ring...

 

[Todd07]

What I read is you've told her she's the one and you've asked for her father's blessing. That's a very strong "I'm committed signal"






Don't confuse getting engaged with being married.


If you still have some feelings to work out, why not get engaged but plan a longer engagement? The act of getting engaged will turn the page to enable both of you to work out the "are we ready" and "are we really compatible" questions that are appropriate during an engagement.

 

[fire&ice]

I'm still confused. You were being genuine that you weren't ready months ago. That is a very valid reason not to propose. You are ready now - correct? But, you are still telling her you aren't ready - correct?

Please also know I am a married women of 20 years; so, I am not waiting for someone to ask me

.

Assuming you weren't ready. Now you are. But, you are still telling her your not ready. And your upsetting her *just* to keep a surprise. Your right. I don't know the dynamics of your relationship. But, I know how I would feel given the facts presented. Very upset that someone who I love & says they love me back doesn't want me today. You're really not telling her the truth. And, it's really not like hubby lying that he hasn't bought me a present yet. This is life.

I can't help but feel this way. I'm sure she will be thrilled, surprised, relieved, excited & all that when you propose in Dec. But, I think she is going through some torturous times right now for the sake of a surprise.

Maybe it's just me. I would like to know how I stood rather than have any element of surprise. Again, that's me. Am I out there? Our engagement was not a surprise nor would I have wanted it to be. What about all the other ladies in waiting? I should post this as a poll in "anxious to get the e-ring thread" w/ over 18,000 views on 18 pages.

Good luck & just something to consider.

 

[njc]

-------It's killin me... especially when we have these fights because I am ready and I can't say that I am ready because if I was ready then why haven't I asked the question yet. I am not (or at least she thinks) that I am not one of those people who would make a big deal out of things or ask on a holiday or anything like that because when I make up my mind for action I do it. So that is why I can't say that I am ready because my way of saying I was ready would be with a ring...
----------------

Sorry to turn this into a non-real life situation, but if you watched "Friends" im sure you can remember when Chandler did this same thing to Monica. It really did almost cost them their relationship because she went to see her ex and started to feel for him again while Chandler was running around trying to find the perfect ring thinking he was being cute.




In a personal real life situation, i was the slow one in saying 'I love you' back. My b/f even told me he wanted to marry me before i could say 'i love you' back to him and this was about the 6 month mark in the relationship. You are right on the fact that we both caught up to each other eventually and he didnt push me in any way. That said, more than 3 years later we *still arent engaged*, but i am very comfortable knowing that i am in a commited relationship and that its going to happen eventually. Knowing this is what i believe helped us with a 1 1/2 year long distance relationship as well. I have never doubted his commitment to us just because i dont have the ring to go with the thought.




I agree with F&I that your SO is probably beating herself up more about where your relationship is going than anything else. There is still plenty of surprise left to be had in waiting for the ring from a man that has informally commited himself to you. You might want to take a look at the "Anxious to Get the Ering" thread (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anxious-to-get-the-engagement-ring.18015/) or anything in the Show Me the Ring forum. I am a card carrying member of the anxious group and they're plenty of happy surprise engagements. Just because i know my man is going to propose isnt ruining the surprise for me because i dont know exactly when!

 

[Bagpuss]

Why is it taking so long to get the ring? 6 to 8 weeks seems excessive to me. I would tread very warily here. If your g/f really is getting upset at your apparent lack of commitment, then I'd forget the suprise element and get that ring on her finger as soon as possible. Keeping her dangling like this and upsetting her into the bargain is not the action of a man who truly loves a girl. I think that this is a prime example of allowing the 'big fancy production thing' - fancy ring, fancy setting, big suprise etc - get in the way of true and honest feelings. Not to mention respect for your g/f's feelings.




I've been married nearly 30 years and I'd rather have had my dh honestly assure me of his love and commitment at the earliest opportunity and give me nothing rather than keep me guessing and rely on a diamond and all that other big production stuff to show me how much he cared.

 

[sparkler29]

This is kind of a sore spot for me, because I waited for a number of years for my FI to be "ready." For him it was a loooooooooooong process due to various things that I won't go into here. The bottom line is that I was patient, but that I almost 'walked'. We had been dating for five years before he was ready - and we're not getting any younger (I'm 30 and he's 34). I was THIS close to having to say goodbye because of his issues, but I knew that in his heart he wanted to spend his life with me, and I with him. I agree with joker that none of us can possibly know the nuances of each other's relationships.

However, I STRONGLY recommend that you tell her you're at least mentally ready to get married. You don't have to tell her that you've purchased the ring or that you've spoken to her parents. You just need to let her know in some way that you're moving in the right direction and that she doesn't need to worry. This is what I was lacking right up until the proposal and I went through a lot of mental anguish over a long period of time. It's not fun. Please consider her feelings - it's not worth hurting her just to have a big surprise proposal. It can still be a surprise but in the months leading up to it, she will have peace of mind.

 

[lindsal]

Very well said sparkler.

 

[Nicrez]

Joker,

I was in the same boat...me being the girlfriend who wanted to get engaged...

My fiance and I were moving in together and I wanted to get negaged BEFORE then. He couldn't do it financially, as he was saving up to do it all in cash. BUT he did offer me a consolation of:

1) being honest with me and letting me know (often) how special I was, and how important I am to his life. Even just saying, "when we get a new car...." Or "I hope our house looks like that..." made our future together more REAL. It showed there was a Me and Him in the future and he was acknowledging it...

2) Talking about your intentions to an extent... He promised me in the early stage of our relationship that if we were still together happily by my late November birthday, he would propose. Come late November, there was no proposal (he was saving $$$), so he got me a promise ring. It was a pretty little WG ring from Tiffany's. Not exorbitant, but special and lovely. I almost ALWAYS wear it on my right hand today. Just a thought. I even helped him pick the stone, but he surprsied me with the ring when he wanted to give it to me (almost a month later).

3) Even if it is not a total shock (Men love shock value more than women who seem to treasure stability and being wanted), it will be a total pleasure to be proposed to!!!! Just remember that you don't want to piss her off before you marry her. That's waht being MARRIED is all about!

Talk about your future more (with her in it), you can be coy, but leave little hints of the two of you working together for your joint lives, and such. Discuss finances, children, etc... maybe that will soothe her a bit for the next two months, or just be cryptic and say... Patience is a virtue... my friend got that line for 6 months, and it nearly drove her NUTS!

Good luck and don't forget to never lie or mislead, but just smile or wink and say nothing, that could work too!

 

[JCJD]

OK, I´m very glad that you are not in the second situation joker! This one is easy!!

I completely agree with the other posters on this one. While she will definitely be getting a HUGE surprise in 2 months if you stick to your current plan, I can say with some certainty that those 2 months will NOT be very happy for her. Perhaps you could modify your plan so you keep the huge surprise but also let her know that she can stop worrying about whether or not there is a future for the two of you, which can be exhausting, infuriating, and deeply troubling, not something that you should be striving for in preparation for your marriage proposal!!! You could have a heart-to-heart discussion with her SOON about how you feel now, that you are ready and happy to commit to her, that you WANT marriage and family and LIFE with her, but that you don´t know when you´d be able to commit on that level. What worked for me is my b-f told me that he wants to give me the best he possibly can, but you could also say something like, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you, but I really want to save up enough money for your ring, our wedding, and a down-payment on our first home" (trust me, she´ll MELT!!!). However, while she´s spending the next 2 months happy in the knowledge that you really DO want to spend the rest of your life with her but not expecting you to propose soon at all, you´ll be receiving the ring and planning the details of your Christmas proposal, preserving your big surprise!!

Hmmmm, caveat. Whatever you tell her you want to do before you´re ready to propose, make sure it´s something reasonable, something you´ve already accomplished or feel comfortable accomplishing given your current time frame, but also something she won´t ever be able to sneakily find out about by herself. As a silly example, don´t tell her you want to go skydiving before you propose if 1) you´ve already done it and she knows about it, 2) you´ve already done it and she can find out about it, 3) she knows you don´t ever plan on doing it, or 4) you won´t EVER do it. Just an example, hope it´s illustrative....the point is you don´t want her (or her girlfriends!!!) thinking that you´re just trying to string her along. You want them all thinking, "Wow! He really is ready! Wow, joker98´s girlfriend sure is lucky she´s got such a responsible and romantic boyfriend!!", right?

Good luck!!!

JCJD

 

[joker98]

I really apprecaite all the good advice that you all are giving. There are a few problems though...

We have already talked about the future.
We have already talked about the wedding. What we each would like and possiblitied on where to have it and little things we would like for the ceremony to contain.
I have my own house but we have had some prelims with a few realtors to find a house with a good school system for our children.
We have talked about retirement, life goals, dreams, priorities, children, but I drew the line at thinking about names.
This girl knows that I am going to marry her. The only problem is that I haven't asked yet.
She knows that I already have enough money to buy the ring.
We have already set a date for her to move in with me.
I seem to have bought some time by going "jewelry browsing" with her but I don't know how long it will last.
I don't want you all to think that I am stringing her along. It is not a matter of if but a matter of when

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/18/2004 10:09:35 PM joker98 wrote:

I don't want you all to think that I am stringing her along. It is not a matter of if but a matter of when
----------------

We don't think you are stringing her along. That's not the issue we raise.

Again, we can only assume things from what you post. But, you said you have flat out told her that you aren't "ready". You told her this simply for the element of surprise. In essence, you are saying to her - I want you. I just don't want you now. It's a rejection.

All we are saying is use another excuse. Too much negativity & bad feelings is tied to "not ready". Especially since this *is* a sore spot with her. I see nothing wrong with telling her you are working on it. Patience is a virtue & surprise is important to you.

The element of surprise should not be what you are concerned with. Her feelings are paramount. Since she is upset by you being "not ready", this should be a clue it's not the greatest phrase for proposal is emminent - just want it to be a surprise.

And, I did all those things you talk about with my boyfriend (who even purchased a ring!). The proposal never came. It's just talk.

 

[valeria101]

Joker, are you sure you aren't my fiance's unknown twin

The guy has been driving me nuts for months and months imagining I knew things will happen, until the talk came close to split up rather than marriage. When the "surprise" came, it was more of a shock than pleasant surprise because my hopes and expectations were nearly gone. Does this sound good at all ? Thought I'd mention.

You two probably do not face the same problems (different cultural backgrounds, mostly distance relationship and three years past) as we had at that time. I cannot know how good a match my story and yours are just from a few posts and no other glimpse of yourself.

Most rings can be made in a matter of days - it seems worth trying to jump over the jeweler's backlog.

 

[joker98]

I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute.

What if I wasn't ready to get married? Would there still be the same outcry of concern for her feelings? How many women are putting pressure on their men to propose? Could that pressure to get engaged and commit be pushing their men away, which is directly leading to the women feeling rejected and disparaged while they are waiting?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/18/2004 10:09:35 PM joker98 wrote:



We have already talked about the future.
We have already talked about the wedding. What we each would like and possiblitied on where to have it and little things we would like for the ceremony to contain.
I have my own house but we have had some prelims with a few realtors to find a house with a good school system for our children.
We have talked about retirement, life goals, dreams, priorities, children, but I drew the line at thinking about names.
This girl knows that I am going to marry her. The only problem is that I haven't asked yet.
She knows that I already have enough money to buy the ring.
We have already set a date for her to move in with me.
----------------

This is why you're having this problem. From what she knows right now, there doesn't seem to be a reason that the proposal isn't coming.

From her viewpoint, she's moving in with you, you've talked about the wedding details, you have enough money to buy the ring......but you haven't asked. She can't understand why you haven't asked....and the only rational explanation in her mind is that you don't want to/are afraid to.

I personally wouldn't recommend stringing this out over 6-8 weeks the way you've been going. A few suggestions:

1. When the topic arises, tell her not to worry. "We've both discussed children, wedding details, etc., and that means I plan to be with you. I'm actively working on the next step but I'm asking you to be patient so that I can 'do it right' and make proposing a memorable occasion."

2. Propose to her now with a "substitute" placeholder ring and let her know that her e-ring is on order. Tell her that you wanted to propose with the real ring, but that you didn't want to fight anymore while you're waiting.

Whatever you do, don't let it go on the way it has been. I've personally witnessed 3 relationships crash and burn this way....and it's painful to see.

 

[joker98]

That suggestion #1 sounds like a good idea! With a few modifications.

 

[aljdewey]

Joker, I think you're missing the point. It's about honesty and kindness.

If you truly weren't ready to marry, and you were honest about it and told her that, that's fine. It would then be up to her to decide if she wanted to a) cut her losses and move on or b) stay in hopes that you would eventually feel ready.

Her confusion comes from the fact that all your actions point toward a future together, but you haven't confirmed that to her. She's trying to determine if it's just "window dressing" or if it's real.

As F&I said, she went through all the same motions, and the proposal never came. One of my co-workers had a similar experience....her BF kept saying "I want to marry you 'someday', but I want to accomplish all these things first. After 4 years of that, she couldn't believe that it would ever happen, and she broke it off. She subsequently married someone else.

Someday is fine when you are in the early stages of a relationship, but at some point down the line, it's not enough.

I don't agree that it's women "putting pressure" on men to become engaged. It's more about knowing where they stand. It sounds to me like she doesn't know where she stands....in spite of your many discussions. In her mind, if you wanted to marry her, you'd be asking.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/19/2004 1:30:58 PM joker98 wrote:

That suggestion #1 sounds like a good idea! With a few modifications.

----------------

The caveat: In order for #1 to be successful, you need to put some time frame on it. You could tell her that you expect to ask in the next 6 months.....and you can still have the element of surprise.

My point is, you need to be more specific than "someday" or "somewhere down the line".

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/19/2004 1:07:49 PM joker98 wrote:

I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute.

What if I wasn't ready to get married? Would there still be the same outcry of concern for her feelings? How many women are putting pressure on their men to propose? Could that pressure to get engaged and commit be pushing their men away, which is directly leading to the women feeling rejected and disparaged while they are waiting?----------------

Simply put, no. And, since you have talked with her parents, are in the process of buying the ring, proposal *is* in the near future.

My situation was completely different than yours, if I can even remember what transpired 25 or so years ago. He did all those things, said all those things. He was more afraid of losing me - not from pressure - but as a reaction. Sort of a "couldn't imagine life without me; but, couldn't imagine life with me either. And, BTW, it was the best thing that ever happened to me in the long run.

And, women *do* like to have things more definitive than men. Perhaps it is because the man usually is doing the asking, it's a pretty powerless place to be for a women.

If you are not ready, then by *all* means *don't* propose. A few butterflies are normal; but, if this is in one's gut than don't.

We are all saying is that we have seen these things, as Al aptly puts it, "crash & burn" over miscommunications.

Also, something to consider. I knew I wanted to get married someday. I wasn't "looking" to get married. I just knew I wasn't prepared to invest time, energy, deep feelings into a relationship that eventually (after dating time) to the next level - marriage.

I think Al's #1 suggestion is a perfectly acceptable way of still keeping the surprise, but not at the expense of her feelings.

 

[jenwill]

----------------
On 10/19/2004 1:07:49 PM joker98 wrote:

I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute.

What if I wasn't ready to get married? Would there still be the same outcry of concern for her feelings? How many women are putting pressure on their men to propose? Could that pressure to get engaged and commit be pushing their men away, which is directly leading to the women feeling rejected and disparaged while they are waiting?----------------

Just wanted to add my 2 cents...

I finally got through to my boyfriend with this analogy:

You are working for a company. Very friendly with the owner. He tells you you are doing a great job, he cannot imagine the company without you there. He can see you being promoted in the future, and probably eventually running the company. You are invigorated by that thought, and think...."this is great! I also think I am a great fit- good to see he feels the same way!" YOu keep working away- not getting raises/promotions, but thinking...this is adding to the future of this company that someday I will be running, so it is worth it.

Meanwhile, you see all of your friends working for other companies. Some really enjoy their jobs and get regular promotions and raises, and are very happy. Others find that their jobs are not a great fit- they don't get promotions and raises, and move on to other companies. When you all get together, your friends ask..."so are things not going well? Why haven't they promoted you?"

Inside you know that things will eventually come around to getting your promotion, but now seeds of doubt are planted. Why haven't you gotten a promotion? He said you would, it really wouldn't hurt the bottom line, perhaps he has changed his mind. Or perhaps he was only telling me that to make me feel good. Hmmm, perhaps I should start looking for another job just in case things aren't going the way I think they are. And all the while your boss is content and happy knowing that he plans to retire in 6 months, and have a big hoopla celebration to highlight his turning over the reins to you. Because he told you earlier that you were doing a great job.

Too bad he didn't give you updates on the progress of the whole situation- then all the stress could be avoided. He didn't have to give you an exact date, but at least updates that things are moving towards that point.

All humans- male or female are great at putting the worst case scenario spin on situations that are out of their control. Put a bid on a house? You think of all the reasons you won't get it. This is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) decisions in your lives. She is probably used to being in charge of her destiny- the decisions she makes affect the outcome. Only this decision, on when to propose, is totally out her hands. So, she knows she is ready, but now has to wait. and wait. and wait. and wonder. Not an easy situation.


I agree with F&I- at least tell her now that although you were unsure awhile ago, that you definitely want to spend your life with her, and that if she will just be a little more patient, everythign will come around.

 

[JCJD]

----------------
On 10/19/2004 1:07:49 PM joker98 wrote:

I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute.

What if I wasn't ready to get married? Would there still be the same outcry of concern for her feelings? How many women are putting pressure on their men to propose? Could that pressure to get engaged and commit be pushing their men away, which is directly leading to the women feeling rejected and disparaged while they are waiting?----------------

OK, first I'll say that I know you are trying to be the devil's advocate, and aren't really asking this question in a serious manner. And now for the bitter diatribe....

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WOULD WE BE POURING OUT CONCERN FOR HER FEELINGS IF YOU WERE PROPOSING WHEN YOU AREN'T REALLY READY AND DON'T REALLY WANT TO MARRY HER?????????? DO YOU REALLY NEED TO BE ASKING THIS QUESTION???????

Whew!!!! Oh boy....... OK, I'm better now.

Seriously: If you weren't really ready to propose to her, i.e. wanted to be with her but not as her husband forever, and were still planning a proposal with the ring in the makings, then my advice would be to cancel the order, inform her father that you aren't really ready, and come clean to your girlfriend about your true feelings. Don't EVER propose marriage to somebody unless you are truly ready to commit to this person for the rest of your life, until death you do part, in sickness and in health, etc etc etc!!! Proposing marriage should not be a test of the other person's commitment/love AND it should also not be a way of keeping that other person around and off your back about the topic of marriage. These two situations are dishonest to the proposee, unfair to both parties, and misleading both in the event of acceptance and denial of engagement. Watch The Wedding Singer, with Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler if you want a really funny representation of a guy who proposed marriage simply to keep a girl around (Barrymore's onscreen fiance #1). Does anybody really want to be that heartless and disgusting? I think not!
So, to answer your questions (finally!! I'm bad...):

No, there would not be the SAME outcry of concern for her feelings. There would be MORE of a different kind of outcry of concern for her feelings!! This is regardless of whether or not she were pressuring you to become engaged, btw.

Yes, pressure to get engaged by women can push men away, and yes that can also lead to women feeling rejected and discouraged in the waiting process, but it can also lead to a half-hearted proposal and an extremely unhappy marriage and subsequent divorce. Now, refer to my screaming at the top of my post.

No amount of pressure from a woman should lead a man to propose marriage if he is not ready.

I really think that the underlying reason why your gf is feeling so tumultuous about this is because the both of you know the who, what, and why of this situation (you, marriage, you're in love), but *only you* are "allowed" to know anything about the when, where, and how, particularly the when question. In her mind, the first 3 are the most important and the most difficult hurdles to jump over, so the next 3 should simply fall into place once you've done that. However, they often don't!!! And trust me, that's hard to understand and accept. So, go ahead with whatever modifications you have to Al's suggestion, but please make sure that whatever you end up saying to her does not confuse her more! You want to appease her anxiety, not increase it, in telling her to be patient! And remember, you never know what a woman is capable of until she is put into 'hot water'.

Hee-hee-hee!!

In all seriousness, best of luck with your proposal plans, and good luck helping your girlfriend to relax and stop worrying so much about your committment to her. I hope you do a better job than my boyfriend is...

JCJD

 

[JCJD]

----------------
On 10/19/2004 6:09:12 PM jenwill wrote:

----------------

On 10/19/2004 1:07:49 PM joker98 wrote:


I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute.

What if I wasn't ready to get married? Would there still be the same outcry of concern for her feelings? How many women are putting pressure on their men to propose? Could that pressure to get engaged and commit be pushing their men away, which is directly leading to the women feeling rejected and disparaged while they are waiting?----------------

Just wanted to add my 2 cents...


I finally got through to my boyfriend with this analogy:


You are working for a company. Very friendly with the owner. He tells you you are doing a great job, he cannot imagine the company without you there. He can see you being promoted in the future, and probably eventually running the company. You are invigorated by that thought, and think....'this is great! I also think I am a great fit- good to see he feels the same way!' YOu keep working away- not getting raises/promotions, but thinking...this is adding to the future of this company that someday I will be running, so it is worth it.


Meanwhile, you see all of your friends working for other companies. Some really enjoy their jobs and get regular promotions and raises, and are very happy. Others find that their jobs are not a great fit- they don't get promotions and raises, and move on to other companies. When you all get together, your friends ask...'so are things not going well? Why haven't they promoted you?'


Inside you know that things will eventually come around to getting your promotion, but now seeds of doubt are planted. Why haven't you gotten a promotion? He said you would, it really wouldn't hurt the bottom line, perhaps he has changed his mind. Or perhaps he was only telling me that to make me feel good. Hmmm, perhaps I should start looking for another job just in case things aren't going the way I think they are. And all the while your boss is content and happy knowing that he plans to retire in 6 months, and have a big hoopla celebration to highlight his turning over the reins to you. Because he told you earlier that you were doing a great job.


Too bad he didn't give you updates on the progress of the whole situation- then all the stress could be avoided. He didn't have to give you an exact date, but at least updates that things are moving towards that point.


All humans- male or female are great at putting the worst case scenario spin on situations that are out of their control. Put a bid on a house? You think of all the reasons you won't get it. This is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) decisions in your lives. She is probably used to being in charge of her destiny- the decisions she makes affect the outcome. Only this decision, on when to propose, is totally out her hands. So, she knows she is ready, but now has to wait. and wait. and wait. and wonder. Not an easy situation.



I agree with F&I- at least tell her now that although you were unsure awhile ago, that you definitely want to spend your life with her, and that if she will just be a little more patient, everythign will come around.----------------

LOVE it!!! Hey men out there- READ THIS! Much better said than I managed.

 

[Nicrez]

Agreed Jenwill's statement was totally conscise.

In all honesty, my fiance and I had been dating for a WEEK when his friend jokingly said, "hey are you and the WIFE coming?" and my fiance at the time laughed out loud and vehemtly proclaimed "NO WAY! I am NOT ready for all that!!!" In front of me.

I have always been non-commital, and NEVER considered myself WANTING to be with ONE person all my life, but suddenly I thought, "Hey! What's wrong with me? Why wouldn't he marry ME?!"

We talked about it later that night and explained the whole looking cool in front of his guy friends, but confided in me that if we dated successfully for another 10 months, he would propose.

I think honestly most people like to know that their time, hard work (all relationships are), and their pouring their heart into something won't result in being lead toward an impossibile goal, or that they are being strung along.

Imagine the boss of your job promising promotion after promotion and never delivering...There comes a time where you need to (excuse the crassness of it but "pooh or get off the pot"). Communication without delivering on your word can be just as dangerous.

Al is right, offer a timeline that is LONGER than what you have in mind. You could always even say, I MAY have a very special Valentine's Day set up for you..." Which may be true, but you can use that later date for a credible date of proposal...

 

[joker98]

JCJD - With the devil's advocate I meant.. would the women here still be upset if I told her that I wasn't ready when in fact I wasn't ready. It seems as though me telling her that I'm not ready when I am in fact ready is much more cruel. I have already figured out what I will her the next time this subject comes up. I can only hope that she accepts it and is patient. However, I can only guess that it is only going to lead to more questions.

aljdewey - I do know that it is about honesty and kindness, which I feel I have been. I have affirmed to her that I plan to marry her and in the not so distant future. The ONLY thing that I have not done is to put a ring on her finger, which I am intending to do.. in a little over 2 months. From what you are saying is that the only way that I can confirm this love that I have is with a ring. I totally disagree. I don't think that a piece of rock and metal can confirm anything. It is the sentiment and love that is behind the ring and the symbol that it represents that signifies the commitement and love. I truly believe that the same commitment and love can be there without a ring. She knows where we stand. I could not make my position, my dedication, or my love clearer. We celebrated out 1 year anniversary in July. We went on a 9 day cruise in September. I think that she was expecting something then and was dissappointed that I did not propose. I don't think that I have been stringing her along or keeping her waiting. It will be about a year and a half when do get down on bended knee.

 

[JimDiamond]

Your relationship sounds great. There is nothing wrong with proposing at a year and a half. You've confirmed that you do intend to commit and you have a working timeline. Yes she may get her hopes up at one time or another, but as long as you don't do what some guys do--intentionally set up their g/f to be disappointed again and again as an attempt at misdirection. That would be cruel, but it's clear you have no intention to do that. So I'm sure that all of us here wish you the best of luck! I hope you'll share your plans as the proposal date approaches.

 

[Momoftwo]

I'm just curious, why the huge effort put into a surprise? She'll be just as happy if you don't hide it from her that way. Check the SMTR threads on "anxious to get the e-ring" You'll see what some of these girls put themselves through waiting for the guy to pick the date to propose. If she thinks you're not ready because you've told her that, but you are, isn't that kind of like lying? I just get the impression guys get this feeling of control out of making the girl wait. I think part of it is, the movies, books, etc make it seem like it has to be this big surprise and the girl is always stunned. It's all drama. It doesn't have to be.

I've been married for 20+ years and I see a lot of control issues surrounding relationships. I was proposed to and got my ring 2 weeks after picking it out. No huge wait, or agony. Just knew it would be soon when we bought it together because he didn't play any games. You can get engaged without a ring, my parents did, and I know a lot of people who have and either didnt' get an engagement ring due to money or they didn't want one, or picked it out later.