She wants size, what should I be looking for.

[Areva12]

I am fairly new to all this and am I the early stages, probably 8-12 months away from proposing. I have been reading everything I can but I think I need professional (or informed amateur) opinions and advice.

I originally was thinking of spending around 10k for the ring, since beginning to look at diamonds I have reevaluated some and reworked my saving plan to budget for 15k.

I know there are awesome diamonds out there for this much and much less. However my girlfriend is really looking for size, she originally said 4 carats plus, after some discussionI think she sees it as unrealistic. I also don thig she knows how big 4ct is, she wants a solitaire, maybe with pave on the band, he rings she is comparing to are her moms (3 stones plus pave at4.25 ctw) and one of our friend's rings which is 3.5ctw with a halo. The size obsession seems to be a southern thing, her family and friends aren't wwalthy by any stretch (her moms ring is from getting married in her mid 30's and our friends is an heirloom diamond in a new setting). She also likes fancy cuts (Asscher is #1 followed by princess) while every one else she knows has round cut rings which from my research seem to face up much bigger.

I am quite proponent of quality, the most beautiful ring I have seen is my cousin's 1.5ct solitaire, it just sparkles like crazy, I know people with bigger diamonds that you would never look back at but people still rave about my cousins ring, I don't know the specifics of the diamond but knowing her husband and his career I would expect is budget was in the same ball park as mine.

Now to my questions and where I need help,

1.) how big can I go and still get that wow factor in the light in my price range 10-15k
2.) what C's should I look at sacrificing on to get more size without loosing the sparkle (it seems the sparkle is from ideal cut and good clarity, right?)
3.) some fancy cut diamonds face up larger than others, what am I sacrificing in these to get the larger face.
4.) Are there price points where I would get a better quality? I.e. would raising my budget to any certain level greatly effect the quality I can purchase?

 

[Pookie3314]

Hello Areva,

What a lucky girl to have someone budgeting that much for a ring. My humble opinion is to ask your cousin or her husband about the ring and the specs. Now that I think about it, first ask your GF what she thinks about your cousin's ring. It may not be her style. But if it is, then ask them about the ring so you have some more clarity on how to proceed.

Hope this help,
Good luck

 

[chrono]

Rounds are going to face up bigger than fancy cuts so this might be the right route for you. As for 4 carats, that is out of the ballpark for your budget even if you drop colour and clarity like crazy. Remember that it is the cut you don't want to sacrifice as that is what makes a diamond sparkle and even help it look bigger.

As for dropping colour and clarity, it depends on how sensitive your eyes are. Even with excellent faceting, some people can detect warmth in H but in general, you can go as low as J that faces up white. If you are open to an antique or off-white colouration, then L and M are great ways to stretch your dollars. SIs are a great way to get a bigger yet eye clean stone too. Some SI2s can be eye clean but it might take some searching.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Have you goen together to try rings on? While the final "piece" can be a surprise as well as the proposal, I wouldn't suggest having no input at all. She might prefer a pear shape after trying many rings on! Same goes with carat total weight--people banter around "numbers" until they see what goes IRL.

Glad you are starting early, then there is less pressure to commit to something for times sake.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You definitely need her to learn that an asscher faces up WAY to small for a person that is looking for size! I'd suggest a round stone in a halo setting. That will give her the size boost in appearance she wants. I'd do a cushion shaped halo setting to make it look less round.

I think you can go to H-I SI1 and get a 1.5 ct. or a little higher...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9501/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2829754.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2673409.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2683862.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2829757.htm

 

[Areva12]

Thanks every one,

Hello Areva,

What a lucky girl to have someone budgeting that much for a ring. My humble opinion is to ask your cousin or her husband about the ring and the specs. Now that I think about it, first ask your GF what she thinks about your cousin's ring. It may not be her style. But if it is, then ask them about the ring so you have some more clarity on how to proceed.

Hope this help,
Good luck

I live 10+ hours away from my family but we will be headed up there for Christmas, I doubt I will have to ask her how she feels about the ring as she doesn't miss any ones ring and is quick to tell me what she likes afterwards.

Rounds are going to face up bigger than fancy cuts so this might be the right route for you. As for 4 carats, that is out of the ballpark for your budget even if you drop colour and clarity like crazy. Remember that it is the cut you don't want to sacrifice as that is what makes a diamond sparkle and even help it look bigger.

As for dropping colour and clarity, it depends on how sensitive your eyes are. Even with excellent faceting, some people can detect warmth in H but in general, you can go as low as J that faces up white. If you are open to an antique or off-white colouration, then L and M are great ways to stretch your dollars. SIs are a great way to get a bigger yet eye clean stone too. Some SI2s can be eye clean but it might take some searching.

Haha, I know 4ct is way out of my price range, I was just looking to show how she feels about size. Unfortunately she doesn't care for round cuts, however I don't think she has ever seen a well cut round diamond, her family and friends (except the two rings mentioned earlier) have relatively cheap mall jewelry store rings.

I think I need to see some diamonds side by side and see how they compare color wise.

HI:

Have you goen together to try rings on? While the final "piece" can be a surprise as well as the proposal, I wouldn't suggest having no input at all. She might prefer a pear shape after trying many rings on! Same goes with carat total weight--people banter around "numbers" until they see what goes IRL.

Glad you are starting early, then there is less pressure to commit to something for times sake.

cheers--Sharon

We have not really gone looking, I have a very good idea of what she wants, she has shown me online a few different rings, she is very firm on some things (square shape for one). We have only really looked at mall jewelry stores and she hasn't found what she wanted (In fairness I didn't see anything impressive either) we live in a relatively low income area so the stores around here don't keep much over 1ct in store and don't have anything other than round or the occasional princess cut. I am yet to see a solitaire ring in our area that I would even ask to have them take out of the case. We will be going to the Bahamas in about a month, while I wouldn't buy a diamond there I expect the stores will have a wider selection of rings and she can get an idea of what is really available.

I honestly don't think she understands (or maybe just doesn't care about) the difference between center stone carat size and total carat weight as she has shown me rings online that are advertised as 4+ ctw but have ~2ct center stones. I think that seeing more rings in person in my price range will help her understand and I think she will be pleasantly surprised what "smaller" rings look like in person.

As for planning early, we have talked about it and I told her that although I fully expect to marry her I wouldn't be ready for a while, she is from the south where getting engaged in less than a year is a regular thing (she has been engaged once and proposed to twice, she is only 23). I am from New England where it is unusual to get engaged that quickly and that young. she has asked why I am doing so much research if I know I am not going to be ready for another year or so, I explained that I am an engineer and approach everything the same way, It recently took me 3 months to select and purchase a new pair of rugby cleats for ~$100, I don't rush into any purchase.

You definitely need her to learn that an asscher faces up WAY to small for a person that is looking for size! I'd suggest a round stone in a halo setting. That will give her the size boost in appearance she wants. I'd do a cushion shaped halo setting to make it look less round.

I think you can go to H-I SI1 and get a 1.5 ct. or a little higher...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9501/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2829754.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2673409.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2683862.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2829757.htm

These are gorgeous diamonds, when we go to the bahamas I will definitely show her rounds in this quality range, as well as what similar quality and cost fancy cut diamonds look like. I feel like some where between 7mm and 7.5mm is really where you hit the eye catching size (Maybe not on here but certainly where we live) I think it would be easy for me to hit this in round with good quality stones as you showed, however I think in princess cut for an ideal cut stone I am probably looking at 6.6mm+ at my price range. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2835504.htm for example and probable slightly smaller for Asscher.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I would suggest going with an antique old european cut and dropping way down in color. You will maximize your size this way and also get a beautiful and unique stone. Perhaps cupping the stone in yellow gold to make it appear like a fancy color.

It is not an asscher but an asscher is usually pricey and faces up small ... contradicting what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[mandasand]

Your price range will probably allow for a 1.5+ fancy shape. Even though rounds face up larger, a 1.5-2 ct cushion or princess isn't going to look small! Sounds like she is into "bling" which you can accomplish with the setting you pick. Perhaps a 3 stone or halo ring? Check out Diamonds by Lauren. I would not "recommend" N color for an engagement ring, but check out the finger coverage! They may be able to find another princess cut with a higher color but in the same setting. http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/diamond-wedding-set-236ct-nvs1-princess-cut-with-trapezoidal-sides-and-matching-wedding-band-gia-r1236

 

[Gypsy]

I am going to suggest you SERIOUSLY consider ovals as they DO face up bigger than rounds and cost less per carat.

This one has great potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1413220.asp 9x7 (which is what 3 carat cushions face up at) PUT IT ON HOLD if you are interested and ask for an ASET image. It's an 8 main oval facet pattern. 2 carats but faces up like a 3 carat cushion (because it's an oval) it's H color so it will be white (ignore the tint on the picture it won't look like that in real life). The price will allow you to get a lovely halo setting (which will boost the size appearance): http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/14k-white-gold-pave-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-17307w14.html or http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/14k-white-gold-pave-halo-&-shoulders-engagement-ring-%28oval-center%29.html

Also James Allen has a FABULOUS return policy of 60 days. I suggest you get the diamond (if the ASET is a good one) and see it in person and walk it around to your local stores and see if you can find anything that competes with it.


I would also second Charmy's suggestion of an old european. http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/loose_antique_and_estate_diamonds_page_3 I'd get the first diamond at the top of this page. 2 carat transitional and gorgeous. More pictures of it here: http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/204ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/22221795_h3C6D7#!i=1829525909&k=TRK439h $13,450 which leaves you enough for a lovely setting.

THIS RING: http://www.ebay.com/itm/330641936522?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Seller has a great return policy.

This seller accepts 30-50% off offers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251115983924?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I would offer 13,000 for that ring (stone is more tinted than M).

 

[chrono]

The other caution is that when it comes to fancy cuts like asschers and other step cuts, you can NOT go lower in clarity and colour because it shows easily. You probably cannot go below H and VS in order to get it to look decent, even with an excellent cut. So on top of getting a stone that faces up smaller, needing higher clarity and higher colour, you'll end up with a much smaller stone.

I think pears and radiants and possibly some other shapes show colour more than rounds but I think ovals aren't that bad.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's one you can take a chance on (seller has a great return policy).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-1-53CT-OVAL-DIAMOND-G-SI1-80CT-STEP-CUT-PLATINUM-ART-DECO-1930s-RING-/370623289791?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item564ade99bf The diamond is very shallow so it faces up HUGE 12.11 x 6.47 x 2.92mm, Depth: 45.1%, Table 55% but it is an original Art Deco (old cut) oval and one of a kind. Beautiful sidestones. Lovely platinum mounting.

 

[distracts]

However my girlfriend is really looking for size, she originally said 4 carats plus, after some discussionI think she sees it as unrealistic. I also don thig she knows how big 4ct is, she wants a solitaire, maybe with pave on the band, he rings she is comparing to are her moms (3 stones plus pave at4.25 ctw) and one of our friend's rings which is 3.5ctw with a halo.

Okay, so does she want 4cttw for the entire ring, or a 4 ct single stone? Those are two VERY DIFFERENT things. A 3-stone at 4.25 cttw could be a 2ct center, two .75 sides, plus .75 pave. A 3.5ctw with a halo could be a 2 ct center with 1.5cts of melee stones. Those are both WAY cheaper than a single 4ct stone. And five years ago diamonds were way cheaper, and earlier than that even cheaper.

If you are looking to sacrifice on some stuff, I'd do I color and Si2 clarity. Unless you're getting an asscher. But if you're getting a princess, I think it could still work.

 

[Niel]

DBL has some nice 3 stones that might work for you,
heres one example
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-cushion-cut-diamond-201ct-w-x-vs1-cushion-cut-gia-beautiful-cut-and-color-r4764

 

[Maisie]

DBL has some nice 3 stones that might work for you,
heres one example
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-cushion-cut-diamond-201ct-w-x-vs1-cushion-cut-gia-beautiful-cut-and-color-r4764

That is gorgeous!!!

 

[Laila619]

4 carats?!! Does she have any idea as to how much this would cost?

I'd get her a halo for sure. That will give a big boost to the size of the center stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You need to find out more. How does she feel about lower color? Shapes? How about an estate piece? Tell her your budget and go window shopping, in person and on line. In a situation like this you should involve her in the decision because its the only way to bring her expectations in line with reality.

 

[Areva12]

However my girlfriend is really looking for size, she originally said 4 carats plus, after some discussionI think she sees it as unrealistic. I also don thig she knows how big 4ct is, she wants a solitaire, maybe with pave on the band, he rings she is comparing to are her moms (3 stones plus pave at4.25 ctw) and one of our friend's rings which is 3.5ctw with a halo.

Okay, so does she want 4cttw for the entire ring, or a 4 ct single stone? Those are two VERY DIFFERENT things. A 3-stone at 4.25 cttw could be a 2ct center, two .75 sides, plus .75 pave. A 3.5ctw with a halo could be a 2 ct center with 1.5cts of melee stones. Those are both WAY cheaper than a single 4ct stone. And five years ago diamonds were way cheaper, and earlier than that even cheaper.

If you are looking to sacrifice on some stuff, I'd do I color and Si2 clarity. Unless you're getting an asscher. But if you're getting a princess, I think it could still work.

If you ask her what she is looking for it is a 4ct stone, however she has never actually seen a stone that big in person. She calls her moms a 4ct diamond, that is why I think that she may be looking at 4cttw (which is approaching my price range). She once showed me her "Dream Ring" on Amazon (which I wished I had saved since I can no longer find it) it was advertised as 4 carats (amazon seems to list the total carat weight in the description) it was a princess cut stone (she has since discovered asscher cuts) in a split shank ring with diamond pave. It was retailing for 15k ( I believe it was regular price 25k on sale for 15k) I have looked for it since and haven't seen it again. However looking at other rings in the same price range on there I assume it was a low quality 2+ ct stone with 1+ cts of accents.

DBL has some nice 3 stones that might work for you,
heres one example
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-cushion-cut-diamond-201ct-w-x-vs1-cushion-cut-gia-beautiful-cut-and-color-r4764

That is very simmilar to her mothers ring, except she has lighter center stone.

4 carats?!! Does she have any idea as to how much this would cost?

I'd get her a halo for sure. That will give a big boost to the size of the center stone.

I don't think she really does, saturday when we were at the mall was the first time she expressed any interest in a halo, before that she always said that they take away from the center stone. I think the issue is that her friends are all getting/got engaged young, to guys saving for a ring on a tight budget so they have less than impressive (I hate to put down peoples rings) diamonds with double halos to make them look bigger or they have something like this http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Engagement-Ring-3ctw-Size/dp/B002BHUI2K/ref=sr_1_68?s=jewelry&ie=UTF8&qid=1351190841&sr=1-68 without a real centerpiece diamond. I think she gets scared of talking about total carat weight and a smaller middle stone because she hasn't seen the middle ground between that and a giant solitaire. Hopefully when we go to the Bahamas they have some good examples, if not I may need to get her on here looking at some of your rings.

 

[distracts]

You need to find out more. How does she feel about lower color? Shapes? How about an estate piece? Tell her your budget and go window shopping, in person and on line. In a situation like this you should involve her in the decision because its the only way to bring her expectations in line with reality.

I agree with this.

 

[chrono]

And a third to support the suggestion to bring her shopping.
1. See pricing
2. See size
3. See different shapes
4. See what is her tolerance for colour and clarity.

 

[SB621]

"If you ask her what she is looking for it is a 4ct stone, however she has never actually seen a stone that big in person. She calls her moms a 4ct diamond, that is why I think that she may be looking at 4cttw (which is approaching my price range). She once showed me her "Dream Ring" on Amazon (which I wished I had saved since I can no longer find it) it was advertised as 4 carats (amazon seems to list the total carat weight in the description) it was a princess cut stone (she has since discovered asscher cuts) in a split shank ring with diamond pave. It was retailing for 15k ( I believe it was regular price 25k on sale for 15k) I have looked for it since and haven't seen it again. However looking at other rings in the same price range on there I assume it was a low quality 2+ ct stone with 1+ cts of accents. "

I really hope this doesn't come off as completely rude but how old is your girlfriend? I thinking early 20's (could be completly wrong) and probably has never even seen a 4ct solitare...which is COMPLETELY different from a 4ctw ring. Also if you are doing ctw would you also include the wedding band into that?

How does she feel about colored diamonds and emeralds cuts? This is just out of budget but David might work with you on the pricing or perhaps if you buy the wedding band from him gift you a package deal? I think the ctw is around 3.75.

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-287ct-emerald-cut-fancy-brownish-yellow-si1-gia-rare-beauty-r3938

Once again these are only options if she doesn't mind yellow colors but I think you can get bigger bang for your budget and get taht something different she is looking for. Her diamond might not be a 4ct solitare but it will stand out among her friend's rings because of the color.

2.02ct Radiant cut
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-202ct-radiant-cut-u-v-natural-light-yellow-vs2-gia-amazing-sparkle-r3975

2.12ct radiant cut
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/yellow-diamond-ring-212ct-w-x-vs2-radiant-cut-gia-diamond-halo-split-shank-ring-r4316

1.95ct radiant cut
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-195-y-z-vvs2-light-yellow-rectangular-radiant-diamond-gia-r3154

1.37 asscher way under budget at 9k

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/halo-diamond-137ct-kvvs2-asscher-cut-step-into-glitter-r3426

 

[chrono]

Sarahbear,
She is 23, IIRC.

 

[SB621]

Sarahbear,
She is 23, IIRC.

Thanks Chrono.

Well then here is my advise for what it is worth coming from another 20 something year old. DH and I got engaged and married at 23. I upgraded my center diamond on our 3 year anniversary and then my setting at our 5 year anniversary. When we hit 10 years I will upgrade to a 4ct center. Perhaps something like this is more obtainable for you guys as well. So when looking at diamonds I would also make sure you fully understand if the store has a trade up policey and how it works.

The majority of erings espeically for those in our age range will not be over 1ct unless you live in Beverly Hills. Try to reasure her that it doesn''t have to be bigger then her mother or her 1 friend's ring to be the best.

 

[VRBeauty]

You need to find out more. How does she feel about lower color? Shapes? How about an estate piece? Tell her your budget and go window shopping, in person and on line. In a situation like this you should involve her in the decision because its the only way to bring her expectations in line with reality.

I agree with this.

Ditto - but be sure to take her to quality stores so she can see that small(er than 4 carats, that is) can be beautiful.

 

[Areva12]

I really hope this doesn't come off as completely rude but how old is your girlfriend? I thinking early 20's (could be completly wrong) and probably has never even seen a 4ct solitare...which is COMPLETELY different from a 4ctw ring. Also if you are doing ctw would you also include the wedding band into that?

She is 23 and I don't think she has seen one (unless you count the jewel exhibit at the smithsonian), I agree that she really doesn't know what she is looking for, it may have been a mistake to mention her wanting a 4ct as I know that is beyond reasonable any time soon. I am not too worried about the ctw, or whether it includes the wedding band or not. I was putting her wanting 4ct (or ctw as the case probably actually is) out there to show that size is the most important thing to her.

Personally I wouldn't be to happy/proud of giving here a giant, low quality ring. What I was (am) looking for (and have gotten great advice on already) is to learn what I can cut on to get a little extra size and still get a visually beautiful ring that I can be proud of quality wise.

I think (and you guys have confirmed) that my budget is realistic for getting a good sized (1.5-2ct) visually impressive stone. I think I should have worded my first post differently I am not just looking for a giant stone.

I agree with all of you that she probably doesn't know what she is looking at/talking about. She definitely estimates that her friends rings are bigger than they are. I was in a simmilar place not that long ago in thinking that a 1ct stone was your standard small engagement ring, however once I started looking into it I realized that isn't the case. I don't think she realizes what the gap is between her friends ring budgets and mine, or what is available in my budget. I think I need to get her into jewelry stores outside of our town where she can see quality rings and get an idea what she is looking at.

 

[Areva12]

Sarahbear,
She is 23, IIRC.

Thanks Chrono.

Well then here is my advise for what it is worth coming from another 20 something year old. DH and I got engaged and married at 23. I upgraded my center diamond on our 3 year anniversary and then my setting at our 5 year anniversary. When we hit 10 years I will upgrade to a 4ct center. Perhaps something like this is more obtainable for you guys as well. So when looking at diamonds I would also make sure you fully understand if the store has a trade up policey and how it works.

The majority of erings espeically for those in our age range will not be over 1ct unless you live in Beverly Hills. Try to reasure her that it doesn''t have to be bigger then her mother or her 1 friend's ring to be the best.

I think you hit the nail on the head, I think she will be surprised what a good quality 1.5ct stone looks like, I'll be sure to update you all once we get to some nicer stores (either in the Bahamas or in Providence/Boston over christmas). As for upgrading, that is certainly an option, our career paths should allow for it, especially living in the are we do where cost of living is low and salaries in our fields are high.

I really wanted to confirm my belief that a 15k budget for a 24 yearold is more than enough to get a good size high quality stone.

 

[VRBeauty]

You've got a great attitude towards this, and a great approach to the challenge... I'm sure she'll end up with a beautiful ring that she loves!

 

[JulieN]

It is quite generous.

Bahamas, ok to look, but be careful about buying.

 

[Areva12]

It is quite generous.

Bahamas, ok to look, but be careful about buying.

Definitely, I'll be coming back to you guys before I buy anything.

 

[madelise]

Well, you CAN get a 4ct+ stone with great optics…
If you're willing to settle with pepper.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9435/




Just throwing it out there, in case she really, really does value the 4ct+ thing more than anything else.
I've seen worse clarity plots on poopy spit diamonds "normal" people wear from maul stores.
At least this one has the sparkle and pop to "hide" the pepper.

 

[CopperTop]

IMO she needs to get in a store and get a firsthand look at faceting patterns vs shape and ctw vs spread. And take a look at the bling factor you get from halo and pave. Bigger sparkler and square is kind of vague.