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Several Prelim Questions for Newbie

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1st Timer

Rough_Rock
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Feb 14, 2008
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Hi everyone. Thanks for all the information I’ve already received on this site – it’s a great resource and I’ll definitely spread the word to others I know in my position (looking to buy an e-ring within the next two months). I have several questions I thought I would post all at once. Apologies in advance for the long post, but hopefully it will reduce the number of follow-up questions.

As a bit of background, I am currently looking at round solitaires around 1ct. I’d like the best cut I can get (symmetry, light return), and based on some in-person viewings at Tiffany and another local B&M, I am willing to go as low as G for color. With respect to clarity, if it’s eye-clean, I’m not too concerned, but would prefer to have it VS1 or better. As for the setting, I’m thinking a classic design (four or six-prong Tiffany). I’m trying to stay below $10k for the entire package.

My questions follow (I split them into three sections).

1. Price Shopping & Online Retailers

I have spent A LOT of time perusing search results at BlueNile (BN), Whiteflash (WF), and Good Old Gold (GOG). I have seen a lot of great reviews of GOG on this forum, but frankly, their website does not inspire a lot of confidence for me. Some of the photos look grainy and it just doesn’t appear as professional as WF or BN. However, I’d like to hear your thoughts. So far, I can’t get over how BN does not show photos or scope images of the actual stones, so am leaning toward focusing my time at WF.

Also, my girlfriend is not materialistic, but when she asks me where I got the ring, I feel a bit strange telling her I got it online. Has anyone gotten adverse reactions to that?

Finally, with regard to the actual purchase from an online site, do most people get the loose stone sent to an appraiser to have it inspected before having the stone set, or is it safe to order the whole ring package and deal with the appraisal later?

2. Name Recognition, Reputation, GuaranteE

Regarding the much-debated issue of name vs. price, I know through research and common sense that I can get a stone of Tiffany quality (or perhaps better) through searching online and at independent jewelers. Many on this site have made the assertion that Tiffany shoppers are simply buying a name and a blue box. I disagree, because the prestige of the brand is only part of it. For me personally, I visited Tiffany because of its reputation for quality, and the fact that I know it will still be around 50 years from now to address any problems with the stone or setting, as well as a lifetime of cleaning to keep it looking its best. I can’t say the same about a local shop of a dotcom, particularly the issue of trying to get them to enforce their guarantee. If any of you are frequent Tiffany shoppers, I’d appreciate your thoughts, because most posts I’ve seen basically just say it’s not worth it. With that said, despite the benefits I stated, I''m not sure they are worth the $4k premium I''d be paying.

Also, on a lot of online retailer sites, the classic Tiffany replica setting often looks bulky, particularly the six prongs. Any thoughts?

3. Cut Branding

This one is short, but with regard to cut, are the online retailers’ “premium” cuts all about the same? In other words, is the BN “Signature Ideal” just as good as the WF “A Cut Above H&A.” Also, is it safe to assume an ideal cut round diamond will look good under an H&A viewer, or must it actually be specifically designated as an H&A diamond?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH in advance for whatever help you are able to provide. I''ve learned through reading these that you all like to see pictures, so when i eventually decide, I will be sure to post a few. Thanks again. Happy Valentine’s Day to you all.
 
well, GOG is actually a big jewelry store in Long Island that happens to do a lot of business online, so they are not an online only company. this holds true for Winfields and Pearlmans as well. these are just smart (IMO) brick and morter stores who have kept up with technology and widened their market base being able to offer their services globally rather than just locally.

personally, my favorite solitaire is the one made by Leon Mege...www.artofplatinum.com. you should also check our Mark Morrell's work. www.mwmjewelry.com

you've got a nice budget and should be able to get a 1 carat stone in a nice setting, no problem. I would think much of your decision would be based on which vendor has the right stone, with the right specs in their in house inventory
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. I have not purchased from GOG but would in a heartbeat.

ETA: many jewelers will use wording like "premium" "ideal" etc and they don't necessarily mean the same thing. best to look at the actual specs of the stone and run it through the HCA. branded stones like WF's H&A's will have a premium price attached which may or may not be important.
 
Hello and welcome :)

It''s great you''ve researched at B&M shops and know your limits for colour/clarity. Like you, I was a bit nervous about the clarity issue, but in the end I went with VS2... and highly recommend this clarity grade. Eye-clean SI1s are around (and even SI2s) - but for me, I have never regretted choosing VS2... and now I can''t even think why I was worried about buying a stone of this clarity!

With your budget and desire for a simple prong setting - you will be able to get a stunning stone within the G, VS range. :)

The GOG website does look a bit old fashioned pehaps, but those ''grainy'' images are hugely magnified photos of the actual diamonds for sale - probably somewhat reduced in quality for ease of loading. I have heard nothing but good reports of the company and their service - and wouldn''t hesitate to use them myself.

I can''t imagine that your GF would have a negative reaction to buying online. You will clearly have done your homework and will end up with (probably) a GIA or AGS certified, super-ideal cut diamond, far superior in quality than anything carried by B&M shops. The quality of the diamond will be evident not only in the certificate, but also in the dazzling, sparkling stone which will outshine anything else you (or she) is likely to have seen.

With regard to appraisal, I didn''t bother myself, as my stone was AGS certed. I was confident that I had received the stone I paid for - and was delighted with it when I saw it in real life. I''m sure others will share their experiences though.

Regarding Tiffany etc. Yes, I love brand names too. :) Unfortunately with a Tiffany ring, the branding is on the inside of the ring... so from the exterior it looks pretty much the same as any other well cut, white, clean diamond ring with the same style setting.

Yes, you can have a lifetime of cleaning - but how often will you take it in for cleaning? I clean my ring at least once a day (yes, I am a diamond obsessive!)... as the diamond really only looks it''s best when it is scrupulously clean.

You''d be better off buying a top of the range ultrasonic cleaner and doing the job yourself... you''ll get the same results and you can clean away to your heart''s content!

With regard to cut, no BN (or other online retailer''s) Signature Ideal is *not* the same as an ACA H&A.

Some stones that make it into Signature Ideal ranges are only certed as ''Very Good'' cut, rather than Excellent or Ideal cut.

An AGS0 stone (such as mine) IS Ideal cut, but is not necessarily a H&A diamond. See here for more info.

An Ideal cut stone will be beautiful - but it is up to you if you prefer the look of a stone displaying a true H&A pattern, or not. See here for more info.

I hope this helps a little... we''ll be delighted to start looking for some beautiful stones for you... :D

x x x
 
There is no tangible reason to pay more for a diamond from a brand name store than from any other source. There are many intangible reasons why a brand name store may suit your preferences better, but the diamond is not necessarily a better one based on who or what store happens to sell it. There was a time when high end brand stores were the places where one shopped for the very best and few others had it to sell. The tables have been turned and today, you can buy the very best from many places. Just shop well and take your choice. Some Internet vendors offer even a level of service only rarely matched by a relatively small number of B&M stores.

I believe WF began as a web vendor although Brian Gavin surely was into diamonds before the Internet evolved. Their website is a very sharply focused and professional tool for sales. GOG began as a B&M retailer. His site is more individualized and chummy since the main thrust of a B&M is personal relationships with customers. If you were to compare the educational value of GOG''s site to most any other diamond vendor on the Internet, GOG would get the Emmy award. Probably from a consumers point of view, both of these well known vendors are doing nearly all the right things for their customers. Each may do it a bit differently, but neither of these sellers are problematic. There are lots of other choices on the Internet and the ones on Pricescope keep playing it by the book because of the open nature of Pricescope. If there were to be a problem, I am sure we''d all hear about it very fast.

You can fine tune your costs readily with a general Pricescope search for the diamond you''d most prefer and then add on the mounting costs to keep within your budget. Before you know it, you can spend your money with confidence and find the best combination of diamond quality/weight/shape that is the target of your quest. Having some appraiser be sure the diamond is the right one, undamaged in any way, and that it is set properly after it is put into the ring is all worth the relatively small price extra especially if you are a person who wants re-assurance. A large and important piurchase often is best made with the services of an expert, independent consultant. When I bought my various houses over the years I always used a trained house examiner to go through it before making a firm offer. There is little point in shopping well and then blowing the whole deal at the very end. Many folks find they have sufficient faith in the seller, too. It is up to each consumer to make the determination of how much and where to place their trust.

We are here to help you choose when you have narrowed down the selection.
 
All,

Thanks very much for the replies thus far. They have been very helpful indeed. I have to catch a flight that will keep me away from my computer until Friday evening or so, but will be back in touch over the weekend, and will likely spend some more time searching for stones in the range I described.

I reviewed the GOG tutorial regarding "Ideal" cuts vs. the Ideal H&A. I understand the difference now, but wish I could see the stones from the tutorial in person now. Oh well.

Thanks also for adding to my comfort level in buying online. It''s good to know I shouldn''t need to worry about an appraisal if I have an AGS cert.
 
Date: 2/14/2008 2:21:04 PM
Author: 1st Timer


Thanks also for adding to my comfort level in buying online. It''s good to know I shouldn''t need to worry about an appraisal if I have an AGS cert.


1st Timer..this is very personal. some folks here feel comfortable just trusting the vendor and the cert. others still like the peace of mind that using an independant apprasier might bring. it may not happen often, but occasional a wrong stone might get sent out and you might not know. there was also one gal who had her stone appraised loose, then shipped back to the vendor for the setting and then back to the appraiser for the final updated appraisal and the appraiser found that the stone had been chipped while it was being set. if an appraiser had not been the middle man in her case, she would have never known about the chip, or at least in time to have the vendor take responsibility and fix it. You just have to decide what is comfortable and right for YOU.

i just bought a ring from Pearlmans and will not be having it sent for an independant appraisal, but that''s me
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Date: 2/14/2008 2:21:04 PM
Author: 1st Timer

Thanks also for adding to my comfort level in buying online. It''s good to know I shouldn''t need to worry about an appraisal if I have an AGS cert.
Just to reiterate that not everyone would do it that way, but I trusted the vendor and the cert.

In addition, I requested laser inscription of the AGS cert number on the girdle of the diamond - so I would always know my diamond (with a loupe, of course). This also meant the stone was returned to AGS afterwards to have the certificate updated with the fact the inscription was present... so then I KNEW I had the stone that matched the AGS cert! :D

x x x
 
Okay, I''m back home. I searched Whiteflash again for stones in my range. Search was based on their "cut above H&A" selection, from 1.0-1.2, with color from D-G, and clarity from IF-VS2. These two jumped out (mostly because they were under my $10k target). Specs are below. I''d be interested to hear thoughts regarding whether these are reasonable stones for the value. Again, I''m looking to put my stone into a classic Tiffany setting, so because it will be there alone, I need it to look great. Thanks for any thoughts.


Item Code: AGS-9356908
$9504
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-608071.htm

. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.000
. Depth %: 60.7
. Table %: 55.9
. Crown Angle: 34.6
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.6
. Pavilion %: 42.7
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.47-6.50X3.94
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible


Item Code: AGS-9357104
$8732
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-608085.htm

. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.020
. Depth %: 61.7
. Table %: 55.9
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.3
. Star : 50
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 74
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.45-6.47X3.98
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

 

One more. I went a bit down the clarity scale to VS2. This one had a few notable

Also, I should mention that I input all these specs into the HCA on Pricescope. All came back Excellent in Light Return, Fire, and Scintillation, but Very Good on Spread. For overall total visual performance, they were graded Excellent.


Item Code: AGS-9407209
$9,583
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-636638.htm#

. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.217
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 55.7
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.4
. Star : 52
. Pavilion Angle: 40.6
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.84-6.86X4.22
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
 
well, you can''t go wrong with a WF H&A stone. each of the 3 you posted are fantastic. i''d probably go with #3, just b/c it''s the biggest..
 
Regarding #3 as you suggested, do you have any thoughts on the inclusions? I''m not sure if you had a chance to look at the AGS report, and while I''m not that familiar with them, it seems there are a series of surface inclusions on the table. Since it is VS2, I assume these would not be detected under normal light and no magnification. Also, any thoughts on whether a G is decipherable from an E? I could definitely tell a D from an H, but am not sure about this range.

Thanks!
 
you might be able to tell the difference b/t a E and a G if the stones are loose and side by side. IMO, in normal viewing and once the stone is set an ideal cut G faces up plenty white and is actually a sweet spot for many. I wouldn''t be concerned about the inclusions in a VS2 stone at all.
 
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