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Seeking advice on Open Feathers.

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jadeleaves

jadeleaves

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
1,464
Hello!

I would like some expert opinions on open feathers with regards to the clarity pic posted below. Jon told me that ''the feathers does reach the surface but looks to be healed''. He is seeking a second opinion on the feathers, but he''s gone on vacation and I want to make a decision on this soon in order not to keep the diamond out of circulation.

I have done some research, and the consensus seems to be to stay away from them, or to put it in a ''safe'' setting like a bezel. Bezel setting the stone is not an option for me.

Stones in this size has been hard to come by in the specs I wanted, but I have high hopes that this will be IT for my RB upgrades, so I want something I will be happy with, and not have to worry about the stone breaking.

I love everything else about this rock, but will appreciate thoughts on the feather issues! Thanks in advance!

JL130706claritypic.jpg
 
Hmmm, I wish I could answer your question. Will someone from GOG be getting back to you about this before Jonathan returns from his vacation? Was it Jonathan''s opinion that the feather was "healed" and, therefore, okay? I guess I always thought that in order for a stone to receive an SI1 grade, the inclusions could not, by definition, threaten the durability of the stone?? I hope it works out -- I know how hard it is to find a stone in this size range.
 
What is the clarity rating of your stone? From the photos it is hard to see these feathers.

"Healed" - I don''t understand - but I wish my diamond would heal the inclusions it has!
 
The stone is a Si1.

Demelza, Jon has left instructions for Tim to get back to me, but I know they will be very busy because only the internet dept is operating, the rest of GOG is on vacation.

Yes Jon said it appeared to be healed, but he wanted to get an appraiser''s opinion too.
 
I guess the feather near the girdle would be the one to watch as it could chip. I looked at an SI1 RB at a jeweler that had a feather like that on the girdle (it passed through both the crown and pavillion sides) and expressed my concern to him that it could chip. He could not disagree with me, but just advised me to insure it. That feather was not the deal breaker, but I didn''t buy it

Your feather near the girdle does look extremely small so maybe there is not so much risk.

I wonder if your jeweler would say to put a prong over the feather or simply near the feather to try and protect it from a knock.

I guess it would also matter if the girdle is very thin. A med-STH girdle might be better with the open feather.
 
I''ve read a few posts here where people have had feathers that were confirmed to break the surface, but the independent appraiser still concluded that there was no integrity concern. 3 questions:

1. What distinguishes a bad breaking of the surface from a harmless one?

2. Just to make sure I understand, breaking the surface means literally that the feather reaches any outer surface of the diamond as opposed to remaining completely embedded?

3. Can you generalize when a prong can safely cover a feather versus when the prong would pose more of a risk?

Thanks!
 
Quite interested in answer to question 3#. To cover or not to cover...?
 
I wouldn't buy it.
I'd get a smaller stone with fewer cracks in it.
 
Hi Jade. I''m the independent appraiser Jonathan contacted about the feathers in the diamond you''re considering.

I told him I would only advise against a diamond like this if there was a significant strain pattern around the (girdle) feather. The other feather looks fine, with no probable durability issue.

I told Jonathan if there was no significant strain around the girdle feather I would advise the client that the durability factor was minor (on a scale of none, minor, moderate, significant & severe) which a setter for all intents and purposes could eliminate with a good setting job. Insure the stone on top of this and you''re worry free.

Looks like a beauty.
 
Date: 7/16/2006 9:10:18 PM
Author: rogue

3. Can you generalize when a prong can safely cover a feather versus when the prong would pose more of a risk?
Click to expand...

A prong poses more of a risk when the metal would transfer impact trauma from the prong to the feather.

A good setter will notch the prong in such a way that impact trauma is not transferred to the feather it covers, or position the prong near enough that it acts as a "bumper" against blows but not so close that it would cause the feather to "run" if the prong were impacted.
 
Hi Richard!

Thanks for chiming in - I knew Jon was consulting you, but wasn''t sure if I could say that here.

I think my main concern is that the jeweller might refuse to set it. I have not spoken to the jeweller yet as it''s still the weekend in the states. Mark Morrell will be making the ring.

Also, insuring the stone is a given, but if I have to make a claim, my premiums will increase afterwards, and I would like to ''prevent'' that if possible, because I have spoken to my insurer and a premium increase will be added to the entire insurance, which results in quite a hefty increase because it''s a home & contents policy. It is rather hard to get insurance just for jewelry alone in Australia.

I think Jon has only sent you magnified pics of the stone. I might wait to speak to Tim in the morning and see if he has any other feasible options for me with regards to finding another one for me in the range I have specified, because I would much rather have a stone with no open feathers just for peace of mind.

BUT, if you have the stone in hand, will you be able to make a more detailed analysis? I can arrange for GOG to send the stone to u to be appraised if you feel that you will be able to make a better call after looking at the actual stone.

Thanks!
 
Date: 7/16/2006 10:08:49 PM
Author: kenny
I wouldn''t buy it.

I''d get a smaller stone with fewer cracks in it.
Click to expand...

Hi Kenny,

I have a size range in mind, and it was rather hard finding stones in this range. I guess I''m not sure if I should pass this up and wait for something else to turn up.
 
Date: 7/16/2006 8:27:57 PM
Author: Beacon
''Healed'' - I don''t understand - but I wish my diamond would heal the inclusions it has!
Click to expand...

A primary feather is a disturbance in the crystal structure (crack, cleavage) which occurs because of pressure on the diamond in it''s initial growth period.

Continued secondary heat, pressure and crystallization of the diamond will then partially heal that crack or cleavage, giving it the "feathery" look from which it receives its name.

A "healed" feather is similar to a crack in a piece of metal which has been "re-welded". If the "welding job" is very good, the "well healed" feather usually poses no threat to the durability of the diamond.
 
Date: 7/16/2006 11:26:45 PM
Author: JadeLeaves

BUT, if you have the stone in hand, will you be able to make a more detailed analysis? I can arrange for GOG to send the stone to u to be appraised if you feel that you will be able to make a better call after looking at the actual stone.
Click to expand...

Sure, I could tell you right away if there's a problem, or if it's a stone I would recommend purchasing with no hesitation.

Mark Morrell often has me examine stones initially that he is considering setting, for my opinion on durability.

As the stone is an SI1, the chances are that it's not a problem. Structural durability is one of the aspects major labs take into account when assigning clarity grades.

I'd love a chance to look at it, and as Jonathan would be the first to tell you, I don't pull any punches in my opinion.
 
Ok I will email Tim, but I think he doesn't start work till Tuesday.

It's good to know that MWM also consults you because it would mean that if the stone gets a pass from you, he is more likely to accept the stone for setting!

ETA: Thank you so much! I will be in touch shortly.
 
Date: 7/16/2006 11:44:44 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Date: 7/16/2006 11:26:45 PM

Author: JadeLeaves


BUT, if you have the stone in hand, will you be able to make a more detailed analysis? I can arrange for GOG to send the stone to u to be appraised if you feel that you will be able to make a better call after looking at the actual stone.
Click to expand...


Sure, I could tell you right away if there's a problem, or if it's a stone I would recommend purchasing with no hesitation.


Mark Morrell often has me examine stones initially that he is considering setting, for my opinion on durability.


As the stone is an SI1, the chances are that it's not a problem. Structural durability is one of the aspects major labs take into account when assigning clarity grades.


I'd love a chance to look at it, and as Jonathan would be the first to tell you, I don't pull any punches in my opinion.
Click to expand...




JL -- I can wholeheartedly recommend sending the stone to Rich for an evaluation. I did this with my recent purchase because I wanted to make certain I was buying the best diamond I could for the money. The report he gave on the stone was extremely detailed and allowed me to rest assured that I was indeed making the right decision. I would trust his assessment 110%! It sounds like it really could be The One!!! Keeping my fingers crossed for you!!
 
I''ve been studying this stuff for quite a few years now, and have an extensive collection of different strain characteristics.

The difficult part of this is that making a conclusion of a feather, is sort of "crystal ball" predictive.

We learn more about these occurances through examination after a "break" or opening happens.

My research, which is far from over, indicates that the color of the strain is indictive to the intensity of the stress in the area.

Green, purple and red strain seem to be the most intense, in the studies that have taken place. These studies have only been done using very thin diamond material. Previously I have thought the most potential for damage was the red strain, but through some research I''ve learned that purple and green color strain is really greater stress affect than the red. To date, I have not seen a diamond with purple or green strain in it.

There isn''t money to actually start asserting stress on "real gem quality" diamonds, wacking up 1-10 carat stones for more conclusive research. In addition since each diamond''s strain areas and centers vary, I am not sure that every predicitive conclusion would in fact be relevant and consisitent in every case.

I do have future plans to examine specimens with use of a scanning electron microscope ( SEM ), however most of the SEM''s available to not have to ability to image "thick" specimens. I did look into purchasing one, but they are rather pricey, plus they have to be "fed" on an ongoing basis with liquid nitrogen. Also there is the expense of maintenence of the unit, which is also pretty pricey.

In the final analysis overview, the above is sort of the "ivory tower lab world". There is also the practical world consideration and conclusions to be made. At the moment, even if you have a stone that breaks due to strain, an all risk insurance policy would most commonly cover replacement of the stone with another one. However there are a group of us that do advise insurers that this is comparable to a pre-exisiting condition, in the health insurance worrld. In the case of a diamond 9 personal property ) most insurance policy to have an exclusion for inherent vice. So the option of an insurance company denying a claim is possible but at this time is not probable. They just are a bit stubborn about spending the expense of analyzing the cause of a break as getting absolute evidence of this is rather pricey too. Purchasers making a purchasing decision, where they put the risk at the decision of an insurance policy may change in the future.

Just some thought to ponder when selecting such a stone.

Rockdoc





In looking at the photo image provided on this thread, the view is top down, which is very lacking. The feather has to be looked at from all positions, particularly the underside to see in which direction ( if any ) it spreads.
 
Thanks Demelza. It was a lot of fun working with you on that purchase. That stone was killer!

Plus, you got me thinking about buying another Shepherd.
 
Date: 7/17/2006 12:01:35 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Thanks Demelza. It was a lot of fun working with you on that purchase. That stone was killer!


Plus, you got me thinking about buying another Shepherd.
Click to expand...



Awww, thanks. Glad I didn''t tire you out with all my neurotic questions.

Did you used to have a Shepherd? Howard is great, but the shedding during the summer is a nightmare. I was just telling my husband that the we could make a small dog out of the amount of fur he sheds in just one day!
 
Date: 7/17/2006 12:01:13 AM
Author: RockDoc

In looking at the photo image provided on this thread, the view is top down, which is very lacking. The feather has to be looked at from all positions, particularly the underside to see in which direction ( if any ) it spreads.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It will be interesting to see the whole picture.
 
Date: 7/17/2006 12:01:13 AM
Author: RockDoc
..There is also the practical world consideration and conclusions to be made. At the moment, even if you have a stone that breaks due to strain, an all risk insurance policy would most commonly cover replacement of the stone with another one. However there are a group of us that do advise insurers that this is comparable to a pre-exisiting condition, in the health insurance worrld. In the case of a diamond 9 personal property ) most insurance policy to have an exclusion for inherent vice. So the option of an insurance company denying a claim is possible but at this time is not probable. They just are a bit stubborn about spending the expense of analyzing the cause of a break as getting absolute evidence of this is rather pricey too. Purchasers making a purchasing decision, where they put the risk at the decision of an insurance policy may change in the future.

Just some thought to ponder when selecting such a stone.

Rockdoc

In looking at the photo image provided on this thread, the view is top down, which is very lacking. The feather has to be looked at from all positions, particularly the underside to see in which direction ( if any ) it spreads.
Click to expand...

Thanks RockDoc - you brought up a very good point which I have not considered. I will need to ring my insurer and find out a bit more about the coverage on my jewelry. It has never occurred to me to check if they will consider something like this as a ''pre-existing'' condition. Fortunately, I have never had to make a claim, but better I find out now than later if something happens!
 
Date: 7/16/2006 11:12:13 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I told him I would only advise against a diamond like this if there was a significant strain pattern around the (girdle) feather. The other feather looks fine, with no probable durability issue.
Click to expand...
Richard Sherwood

Why is there no probable durability issue on the other feather? Is it the type of feather or its position away from the girdle which makes the difference?
 
Date: 7/17/2006 6:07:41 PM
Author: Pyramid

Why is there no probable durability issue on the other feather? Is it the type of feather or its position away from the girdle which makes the difference?
Click to expand...

Both. The location of the other feather being away from the girdle, along with Jonathan''s description of the feather as being non-surface breaking and well healed indicate that it is probably a non-durability issue.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Richard Sherwood.
 
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