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scary times in the midwest

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strmrdr

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It looks like the .gov is willing to let Chrysler die which is my areas largest employer with 1 of 3 jobs depending on it and unemployment rate is already over 13% percent and real unemployment is well over 20%.
Pisses me off trillions for the scumbags who caused this mess and peanuts for the working men and women who will pay for it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090330/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_autos
 

AGBF

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The state of the economy and the disproportionate suffering by the working people upsets me, too. I know many good people who are out of work and looking hard for jobs. I see men lined up at the local 7/11 ready to do manual labor every morning, too. They just wait and hope that someone will hire them by the hour to do whatever is needed. (This is in the East, but the way.)

AGBF
 

movie zombie

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and what makes it worse is the scumbags got bonuses that we paid for.

mx
 

perry

Ideal_Rock
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Karl:

What is the alternative? Continuing to prop up companies who are stuctured and managed such that they will never be able to be competitive?

I personally thought the entier bailout of everything was handled wrong. I''m not against bailouts if used properely (Chrysler was saved by one in the late 70''s - and they paid the $ back); but this entier series of bailouts has not helped - and made things worse.

I really do not understand the concept of "Too Big To Fail" either. If that is the case - let them fail and provide support directly to the creditors. That would at least appropriately punish the poor management practices that led to the failure.

As an employee - who once spent most of a decade either unemployed or well under-employed I do understand the effect on the employees. Yet, employees will only have a chance of getting a decent job if the companies that spring up can thrive on their own - and not depend on massive goverment subsidies.

Have a great day, and I though of you last week when I drove down 90 to I 39 South (I drove to Omaha and back).

Perry
 

monarch64

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Re-read Upton Sinclair''s The Jungle this weekend and found it eerily familiar.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 3/30/2009 6:59:03 PM
Author: perry
Karl:


What is the alternative? Continuing to prop up companies who are stuctured and managed such that they will never be able to be competitive?


I personally thought the entier bailout of everything was handled wrong. I''m not against bailouts if used properely (Chrysler was saved by one in the late 70''s - and they paid the $ back); but this entier series of bailouts has not helped - and made things worse.


I really do not understand the concept of ''Too Big To Fail'' either. If that is the case - let them fail and provide support directly to the creditors. That would at least appropriately punish the poor management practices that led to the failure.


As an employee - who once spent most of a decade either unemployed or well under-employed I do understand the effect on the employees. Yet, employees will only have a chance of getting a decent job if the companies that spring up can thrive on their own - and not depend on massive goverment subsidies.


Have a great day, and I though of you last week when I drove down 90 to I 39 South (I drove to Omaha and back).


Perry
The only way to avoid a further slide into a 3rd world cesspool is to regain the manufacturing sector.
The WS scumbags that were bailed out add nothing to the American peoples well being.
A ton of the money went to foreign countries also far more than it would take to save both GM and Chrysler and turn them into lean and mean manufacturing machines that adds jobs and value to the US.

The scumbags that got all the money add no value to economy and are leaches just like the government sucking the blood out of the almost dry corpse of what once was the heart of America.
 

AllieGator

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 3/30/2009 8:09:07 PM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 3/30/2009 6:59:03 PM

Author: perry

Karl:



What is the alternative? Continuing to prop up companies who are stuctured and managed such that they will never be able to be competitive?



I personally thought the entier bailout of everything was handled wrong. I'm not against bailouts if used properely (Chrysler was saved by one in the late 70's - and they paid the $ back); but this entier series of bailouts has not helped - and made things worse.



I really do not understand the concept of 'Too Big To Fail' either. If that is the case - let them fail and provide support directly to the creditors. That would at least appropriately punish the poor management practices that led to the failure.



As an employee - who once spent most of a decade either unemployed or well under-employed I do understand the effect on the employees. Yet, employees will only have a chance of getting a decent job if the companies that spring up can thrive on their own - and not depend on massive goverment subsidies.



Have a great day, and I though of you last week when I drove down 90 to I 39 South (I drove to Omaha and back).



Perry

The only way to avoid a further slide into a 3rd world cesspool is to regain the manufacturing sector.

The WS scumbags that were bailed out add nothing to the American peoples well being.

A ton of the money went to foreign countries also far more than it would take to save both GM and Chrysler and turn them into lean and mean manufacturing machines that adds jobs and value to the US.


The scumbags that got all the money add no value to economy and are leaches just like the government sucking the blood out of the almost dry corpse of what once was the heart of America.

Unfortunately, strmdr, I don't think we'll ever regain the manufacturing sector.

American businesses are too happy and willing to outsource manufacturing to other countries, due to their lower wages and lower standards of what a working environment is supposed to be. Why, from a purely business mindset, should they pay higher wages, when they can get the same labor for much less?

If we can get businesses to bring work back to the United States, then we could restart the manufacturing sector. But, until businesses start to put people in front of profits, this will not happen.

I personally think that we should let the business fail... its unfortunate that people will lose their jobs, but we will just keep pumping government money into these businesses if we let them keep up their practices. They have been given many chances to change, but they have not. And unfortunately, our country is so cash strapped right now that we can't just keep giving them money so the jobs will still exist.

I really wish it were different, but we need to be realistic.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 3/31/2009 8:03:09 AM
Author: AllieGator

Unfortunately, strmdr, I don't think we'll ever regain the manufacturing sector.


American businesses are too happy and willing to outsource manufacturing to other countries, due to their lower wages and lower standards of what a working environment is supposed to be. Why, from a purely business mindset, should they pay higher wages, when they can get the same labor for much less?
If we don't then we are doomed.
Even the Chinese are building factories in the US.
The same WS BS that tanked the economy was responsible for the jobs leaving in the first place.
Since the banks are being taken over by the gov anyway it would have been a lot cheaper to get rid of the scumbags by letting them fail first and rebuilding the manufacturing sector that actually adds value.
They are trying their best to tank any chance of recovery by pushing people over the edge with higher interest rate and paying off foreign companies instead of lending money to keep American companies with perfect credit to keep going.
 

movie zombie

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yes, putting profits first served wall street well and the people not so well. they''ve had a lot of years to get us to this point. the market has spoken and said they were wrong. they should have not rec''d $ to keep them going.

mz
 

Haven

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This is all very scary. It saddens me, too, that hardworking people are losing their jobs left and right.

I know it's a totally different industry, but so many excellent teachers are losing their jobs, too. My own school let 15 teachers go for next year, which is 10% of our total faculty. My mom's school dissolved the teacher's union, fired 20 teachers today, put a freeze on all the remaining teachers' salaries, and cut most of their workloads to part-time for next year. It's terrifying.

I have no answers to the problem, though. Just a lot of sadness for all of the hardworking, well-meaning individuals who are losing their jobs.
 

ksinger

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Date: 3/31/2009 11:34:23 PM
Author: Haven
This is all very scary. It saddens me, too, that hardworking people are losing their jobs left and right.

I know it''s a totally different industry, but so many excellent teachers are losing their jobs, too. My own school let 15 teachers go for next year, which is 10% of our total faculty. My mom''s school dissolved the teacher''s union, fired 20 teachers today, put a freeze on all the remaining teachers'' salaries, and cut most of their workloads to part-time for next year. It''s terrifying.

I have no answers to the problem, though. Just a lot of sadness for all of the hardworking, well-meaning individuals who are losing their jobs.
Yeah, when push comes to shove, we see where our priorities really lie. Sadly, educating the young is not one of them. And while they were slashing the people who actually do the work, how many administrators lost their jobs I wonder...?
 

Haven

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Date: 4/1/2009 6:01:58 AM
Author: ksinger
Date: 3/31/2009 11:34:23 PM
Author: Haven
This is all very scary. It saddens me, too, that hardworking people are losing their jobs left and right.

I know it''s a totally different industry, but so many excellent teachers are losing their jobs, too. My own school let 15 teachers go for next year, which is 10% of our total faculty. My mom''s school dissolved the teacher''s union, fired 20 teachers today, put a freeze on all the remaining teachers'' salaries, and cut most of their workloads to part-time for next year. It''s terrifying.

I have no answers to the problem, though. Just a lot of sadness for all of the hardworking, well-meaning individuals who are losing their jobs.
Yeah, when push comes to shove, we see where our priorities really lie. Sadly, educating the young is not one of them. And while they were slashing the people who actually do the work, how many administrators lost their jobs I wonder...?
ksinger--How right you are. Don''t even get me started on administrators--teachers are practically being forced into a pay freeze for next year, yet our administrators are still earning a quarter of a million dollars per year. And now that our union has asked to see their contracts (as we are entitled, per law) they are citing some loophole and trying to withhold pay information.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/1/2009 12:11:37 PM
Author: Haven

ksinger--How right you are. Don''t even get me started on administrators--teachers are practically being forced into a pay freeze for next year, yet our administrators are still earning a quarter of a million dollars per year. And now that our union has asked to see their contracts (as we are entitled, per law) they are citing some loophole and trying to withhold pay information.
Here they are talking about spending millions on charter schools while cutting staff and freezing wages. :{
 

zoebartlett

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I think it''s a shame when hard working men and women lose their jobs, and I would hate to see that happen if these car companies went under. If I understand the situation correctly, the President gave the CEOs time to sort out their problems and come up with a solution for improving this disaster. That didn''t happen, so the President is now saying that they didn''t put together a good enough case to be bailed out. Am I right?

If so, I see Allie''s point about not bailing out the companies. This may be harsh, but why should the government keep bailing out a particular company when the same mistakes are being made over and over again? The higher-ups should do better.

Again, I don''t mean to sound harsh, and I know that if the companies do go under, so many people will lose their jobs. It''s such an unfortunate situation, and it does infuriate me.
 

swimmer

Ideal_Rock
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Storm, Where are the Chinese building factories in the US? I did some googling but am not finding it. Sounds interesting.

I also blame us, the consumers. We are willing to pay for cheap crap made by the developing world over goods made in the US. I do not own an American car, never have, but I never shop at a Wal-Mart because they are killing small businesses across the US and their goods are not American made. Shop at your local vendors or they will soon be out of business and all we will have the option to purchase is cheap crap.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/2/2009 8:43:50 AM
Author: swimmer
Storm, Where are the Chinese building factories in the US? I did some googling but am not finding it. Sounds interesting.


I also blame us, the consumers. We are willing to pay for cheap crap made by the developing world over goods made in the US. I do not own an American car, never have, but I never shop at a Wal-Mart because they are killing small businesses across the US and their goods are not American made. Shop at your local vendors or they will soon be out of business and all we will have the option to purchase is cheap crap.
Rockford IL
one plant is for sure and 3-4 more are being planned.
http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1331540110/Gov-touts-solar-panel-assembly-deal-in-Rockford

http://www.rrstar.com/archive/x286839891/Rockford-approves-solar-farm
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/3/2009 10:32:48 AM
Author: meresal
Storm, will the employees that lose thier jobs not have the oppotunity to work at these plants?
maybe, but it is 700 or so new jobs possible over the next 10 years vs the immediate loss of over 4000+ jobs + tons of service businesses that are indirectly supported.
One report puts the number at over 10000 jobs gone in this area if both Chrysler and GM go down.
 

omieluv

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Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
2,146
Renewable energy is gaining ground in IL, more specifically, wind. It will create some jobs, but not enough to make up for what has been lost. People with an electrical/mechanical background might be able to benefit.
 

ksinger

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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To add to the conversation:

From Marketwatch.com - it has a comment or two about the automakers, among other things.
Where will we get new jobs?
Commentary: More huge cutbacks could be on horizon

From The American - The Journal of American Enterprise Institute
Our Epistemological Depression
Major recessions are characterized by something novel. Opacity and pseudo-objectivity created the crisis today.
 

DivaDiamond007

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Date: 4/1/2009 8:42:04 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
I think it''s a shame when hard working men and women lose their jobs, and I would hate to see that happen if these car companies went under. If I understand the situation correctly, the President gave the CEOs time to sort out their problems and come up with a solution for improving this disaster. That didn''t happen, so the President is now saying that they didn''t put together a good enough case to be bailed out. Am I right?

If so, I see Allie''s point about not bailing out the companies. This may be harsh, but why should the government keep bailing out a particular company when the same mistakes are being made over and over again? The higher-ups should do better.

Again, I don''t mean to sound harsh, and I know that if the companies do go under, so many people will lose their jobs. It''s such an unfortunate situation, and it does infuriate me.
Zoe - this is exactly how I feel about the Big 3 situation. If it were any other business the higher-ups would be fired and the company would go into bankruptcy.

So many people will lose their jobs if/when Chrysler and GM go bankrupt, and being that I work in bankruptcy I''ll profit, but it''s not going to help our local economy so it''s a sort of double-edged sword for me. More job losses = more foreclosures = further declining property values = more people moving outta here = less taxpayer money = less money for schools, etc.
I think it''s a sad situation all around.
 

fisherofmengirly

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Messages
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It's totally ridiculous that the "government" (and I use that term loosely these days) has given any bail-outs to anyone/any corporation to begin with. It's not the government's job to keep businesses afloat. Totally and completley not what the government is intended to do. As it is, we're so in debt now that our children and their children and their children will spend their lives trying to dig out from the hole current government (and several years back) have created.

I hate it for every person who's lost their job, or is in danger of losing their home, or anything of that nature, as it's horrifying and scary beyond belief, but a bail-out is only a short term (and carries long lasting turmoil, financially for our country) band-aid to the issues corporations have gotten themselves into.
 
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