Scared for us

[NoID]

My DH and I have been fighting non-stop for like a YEAR.

For a while, we blamed it on the stress of wedding planning.

But the wedding is over now and we are still fighting non-stop. We both seem to react to each other's actions very strongly and have no patience for each other. Screaming matches, walking away from each other, the works.

In between, we do have days when we have talks, and we hug, and we feel hopeful. I did some research and it is my guess that we're in constant power struggle mode. We definitely love each other.

I am getting really, really scared that we won't be able to come out of this state. There are times when DH puts in the effort and is extra nice but I feel like he's doing some things he knows I don't like as if to assert his independence. When I met him quite a few years ago he had a habit of doing a couple of shots a night, which I hated. For quite a while, I'm talking YEARS, he had stopped doing that and seems like he's picked the habit back up in the last month or so. He knows it's something I absolutely hate and I feel like he's doing it on purpose. I haven't said anything because I feel like he's just waiting for me to say something and I am afraid what I'll hear is "it's no big deal" and "this is something you knew about me from day one" etc. Plus I'm thinking if he's looking to get a reaction so that he can say those things to me, he may just stop on his own when he doesn't get the reaction he was hoping for.

I am not as sociable as he is, and I know he goes out a lot less than he would probably like. I'd say he goes out twice a month with people from work, sometimes less, sometimes more. I also understand he needs to get away from me sometimes because since I run a business from home, I am always here. I get plenty of alone time, but he doesn't. Today is his day off and he went out for a few drinks and poker. I wonder if once or twice a month is just too little freedom and he resents me for it. I've never told him "you can't go" but I think he knows I wouldn't be too thrilled if he wanted to go out all the time.

I feel like now that we're married his going back to his two shots a day is a message kind of like "I can do what I want" and "you can't control me". I realize this doesn't make him a drunk, but I just don't like it...especially because I feel he's doing it on purpose

I don't know what to do. We went through counseling one time and it really helped us. But with the tons of $ we spent on the wedding he is fighting me on going again. I feel like the relationship is priority #1 but I can understand his resistance. Plus, it's not like he loves therapy - although he did get quite a bit out of it and even got to the point he was going to see the therapist by himself for his own issues.

We have been together for about 9 years and are in our late 30s...no kids...he is supportive of my goals and dreams and is a good guy in general...genuine, caring, helps around the house, makes me laugh. I am emotional, reactive, have abandonment issues, are less social than he is, and definitely don't "take care of him" in the typical sense (I don't cook often, etc.) But I am good to him.

We are in trouble, and I don't know what to do.

What do you see in this post? What do you think? What would you do?

 

[iluvcarats]

NoID
I am really sorry that you are going through such a tough time. It sounds like couples therapy is your best option, especially if it helped once before.
I would make an appointment with your therapist ASAP. Hang in there! Best of luck

 

[surfgirl]

What I see in your post is someone who''s acknowledging that her young marriage is in trouble and she needs to do something about it. I also see a husband who maybe isn''t acknowledging how bad things are. You guys need couples counseling STAT. Forget how much the wedding costs. No wait. DONT forget how much the wedding costs. Consider counseling a way to protect your investment that you made by spending so much money a your wedding (I''m going by your words)! Seriously, you need to talk to a trained professional who can help you both see what''s really going on and if it''s fixable and if so, how to fix it. Then you both need to work hard to fix whatever''s not working for you. You said you went to counseling "once" and I''m not sure you mean for one period of time, or one time only. If you meant the latter, it''s important to understand that counseling takes time. Sometimes years, to make lasting, meaningful change. You need to recognize that you might not have a "quick fix", and it might take a long time to fix whatever needs fixing. Good luck.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/17/2008 9:35:19 PM
Author:NoID
My DH and I have been fighting non-stop for like a YEAR.

For a while, we blamed it on the stress of wedding planning.

But the wedding is over now and we are still fighting non-stop. We both seem to react to each other''s actions very strongly and have no patience for each other. Screaming matches, walking away from each other, the works.

In between, we do have days when we have talks, and we hug, and we feel hopeful. I did some research and it is my guess that we''re in constant power struggle mode. We definitely love each other.

I am getting really, really scared that we won''t be able to come out of this state. There are times when DH puts in the effort and is extra nice but I feel like he''s doing some things he knows I don''t like as if to assert his independence. When I met him quite a few years ago he had a habit of doing a couple of shots a night, which I hated. For quite a while, I''m talking YEARS, he had stopped doing that and seems like he''s picked the habit back up in the last month or so. He knows it''s something I absolutely hate and I feel like he''s doing it on purpose. I haven''t said anything because I feel like he''s just waiting for me to say something and I am afraid what I''ll hear is ''it''s no big deal'' and ''this is something you knew about me from day one'' etc. Plus I''m thinking if he''s looking to get a reaction so that he can say those things to me, he may just stop on his own when he doesn''t get the reaction he was hoping for.

I am not as sociable as he is, and I know he goes out a lot less than he would probably like. I''d say he goes out twice a month with people from work, sometimes less, sometimes more. I also understand he needs to get away from me sometimes because since I run a business from home, I am always here. I get plenty of alone time, but he doesn''t. Today is his day off and he went out for a few drinks and poker. I wonder if once or twice a month is just too little freedom and he resents me for it. I''ve never told him ''you can''t go'' but I think he knows I wouldn''t be too thrilled if he wanted to go out all the time.

I feel like now that we''re married his going back to his two shots a day is a message kind of like ''I can do what I want'' and ''you can''t control me''. I realize this doesn''t make him a drunk, but I just don''t like it...especially because I feel he''s doing it on purpose

I don''t know what to do. We went through counseling one time and it really helped us. But with the tons of $ we spent on the wedding he is fighting me on going again. I feel like the relationship is priority #1 but I can understand his resistance. Plus, it''s not like he loves therapy - although he did get quite a bit out of it and even got to the point he was going to see the therapist by himself for his own issues.

We have been together for about 9 years and are in our late 30s...no kids...he is supportive of my goals and dreams and is a good guy in general...genuine, caring, helps around the house, makes me laugh. I am emotional, reactive, have abandonment issues, are less social than he is, and definitely don''t ''take care of him'' in the typical sense (I don''t cook often, etc.) But I am good to him.

We are in trouble, and I don''t know what to do.

What do you see in this post? What do you think? What would you do?

Have you gone to counseling by yourself? It seems that you can at least acknowledge you have some issues.

I think it''s not uncommon early on in a marriage (or for the duration of the marriage for that matter!) for things to be power struggles (even the seemingly innocuous things can be disguised power struggles). But you have been together a good chunk of time...it has only been like this for the last year? What about the other 8?

Sometimes I think the only thing you can do to a challenge like "you can''t control me, I can do what I want" is "well, you''re right. I can''t. I have a preference, and I can let it be known, but you gotta do what you gotta do." People often have some kind of basic instinct to dig their heels into the ground when pushed.

Also, do you think that you might be taking things personally? For instance, taking his two shots a day as being a direct "in your face" kinda thing when all it is is that he wants to just have a couple to unwind? I only bring this up because from talking to a few couples who have successful marriages, I''ve learned that it is not always "personal." One couple I know had to go to counseling to realize when the wife didn''t do the chores that the hubby wanted her to do, it was NOT a personal attack/message. It was just that she was forgetful or lazy. Not the best thing to be, but it didn''t make her spiteful either.

 

[somethingshiny]

I agree that some counseling would help. You could check into your employers'' insurance, sometimes they cover specific types of counseling. Another possible option could be a priest/pastor/rabbi. They are free. And, I''ve known couples who weren''t actually a member of any religion who attended a counseling with a pastor and had a wonderful outcome.

Good luck!

 

[girlie-girl]

I agree that individual and couples counseling could be beneficial. Maybe start out with individual counseling so you know you're personally in a place where you can nurture a relationship. How does the saying go, we have to love ourselves before we can love anyone else, or something like that. Make sure you don't have any lingering issues that you could be projecting onto him.

Since things tend to turn into an argument when you try and talk, have you ever thought about writing him a letter? I know it's human nature to be protective of oneself and seeing things in a written form sometimes helps things sink in without the verbal explosion that can come with a conversation. Not only will you be able to pick your words carefully without becoming flustered and upset, but he can read how he is making you feel without getting off track. Either way I think it essential that you explain how his actions are making you feel. Perhaps you are reading too much into his two shots a night thing, but we can't tell you that, only HE can explain what he's going through. Tell him you're hurt and worried and that you want to work together to make things right, that you're not angry or trying to be controlling. Keep those lines of communication open!

Sometimes people have idealistic views of marriage and when they experience the day in day out of it, it's quite a different thing. If you both love one another enough I think you'll both do whatever it takes to work through this. Marriage is a give and take afterall, maybe he'd enjoy if you went out with him occasionally even though you tend to stay in more. This would also show you're willing to "give" him the things that'll help keep him happy and in turn I'm guessing he'd eventually do the same.

Good luck, I'm sending cyber hugs...

 

[AGBF]

Hi, NoID-


I am sorry you are having such a rough time and are feeling so alone. I definitely agree that counseling and/or psychotherapy sounds like the solution for you and your husband (either together or for you alone). I just wanted to mention another resource which I often do: Al-Anon. It is a great group and it is free. If someone, whether he is a drinker or not, is causing you problems you can go to Al-Anon to learn how to manage your own reactions better. It is a wonderful support group wit wonderful coping strategies and lots of wise listeners. It s definitely worth giving it a try.

Good luck!

Hugs,

Deb

 

[allycat0303]

I''m sorry you are having a hard time. I don`t have great advice because I am not married yet.

I think though that when you start to fight, there''s a lot of resentment that builds up, and you start fighting not only for the issues at hand, but all of the ones that were unresolved. It can get pretty overwhelming at times.

Have you tried to suggest counselling when you aren`t fighting or right after a fight? I have a tendency to get mad, get into a fight, and then try to talk about things which he isn`t in a place to respond to (because he''s angry). I tend to get caught up in the fight and everything tend to look pretty hopeless at that point.

So I would suggest trying to approach this when you both are feeling really happy together. Also, I think the first year of marriage is really hard, especially if you haven`t lived together before hand.

I think you should say something if the shots are bothering you. Non-confrontational, but it needs to be addressed. Whether he`s asserting his independance or not, if this is something that REALLY bothers you (and I am not talking, ''''annoying habit'') you don`t want this to become a daily habit.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Have you checked with your insurance to see if they cover counseling? It might be that if you choose the right person, you'll only have to pay the same copay you do for everything else. I've recently gone into counseling, and I was told I get 50 visits a year at my $30 copay, no preauthorization required as long as the therapist is within the network.

What else does your husband do that seems like he is trying to assert his independence? The shots don't really spell out a pattern to me. If I have gleaned correctly from your past posts, you have been married less than a month. Did he do a lot of drinking over the wedding and honeymoon and just continue it when he got home? What is it you don't like about the shots? Would it be better if he drank two drinks slowly throughout the course of the night, or is it the drinking in general?

My advice is to ask him, calmly, to go to counseling with you, make the appointment, tell him when it is, and use it as individual counseling if he still won't show up. You can't force him to go, but I think couples tend to follow each other's lead. If you see each other doing little things to irk each other, you'll follow suit. On the other hand, if he sees you taking your marriage and yourself seriously and working to improve things, then hopefully he'll follow suit too.

I've had to realize that my DH doesn't think like me. When I ask him to put things away and he just makes little piles of crap on his dresser, he's not doing it that way to annoy me. He doesn't think, oh, I should throw this stuff away or, if I need to keep it, have a permanent place for like items somewhere. He just thinks, oh, organize, pile, pile, pile, done. So we laugh about his little piles, and I pick through the items and question their usefulness, and we giggle, and then I ask if I can throw/put away certain items. It's either that or get angry about it, which is no fun.

So I guess I'm asking, do you think your husband KNOWS that the two of you are engaged in a power struggle? Is he doing it intentionally, or is he making choices like doing shots and his bachelor party based on his own preferences, not as a slap in the face to you?

Also, once or twice a month does not sound like a lot of socializing to me, and I'm not even the social one in our marriage. What if it were once or twice a week instead? You'd still be together the other 5 or 6 nights. If that would make him happy, perhaps you should encourage him to make more play dates after work or on weekends.

 

[LaraOnline]

[
I think you have got some really good responses from your post. I think TravlingGal''s points, and Phoenixgirl''s really gelled with me...does he get belligerent when he drinks? Is he bad company at that time, surly, withdrawn... or is he simply having a glass or two. Are you worried about it turning him (gradually) into a drunk, or a bad drinker?
At this stage, I think don''t cross that bridge until you come to it. If he''s simply having a glass of alcohol, don''t sweat the small stuff.
It''s interesting to me that couples counselling is worthwhile. Perhaps you should consider talking him into counselling as an ''ongoing'' thing - an ongoing personal growth activity - rather than a response to a ''crisis''.
Better to attempt to create a smooth and steady environment right now.
Do you know what is going on at work with him? Is he hiding problems, such as work or money problems, from you? Perhaps it''s not about you directly at all...
I know this sounds dumb, but a roast chicken in the oven once or twice a week might help (Can''t believe I''m saying this...but, you know...)
Roasted anything is easy. Perhaps he''s wondering where ''wifey'' is? Was *he* hoping for any changes in lifestyle once the dust settled and you got married? This stuff is buried deep!
A contented wife, food in the kitchen and football on the tele (with a single shot in hand, I guess)
Hmm don''t know if I''ve been helpful here...

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think you need to sit down and talk with him when you are not arguing to come up with a plan together. And to figure out if it''s something happening individually with him or something within the dynamic of the relationship.

I am not adjusting well to being married. I hate being called "wife", I resent any chore I have to do more now than I ever did in the seven years we lived together, I crave being alone and miss feeling completely independent. I wish I hadn''t changed my name, I rarely wear my wedding bands...you get the idea. It has nothing to do with D or how I feel about him, I''m just not transitioning well. I can recognize that this is my issue and I am reading several books in order to better understand why I''m doing this. I highly recommend Dr. Harley''s books...and he has a website called marriagebuilders.com. Anyway, if I can''t fix this on my own within a set period of time (a timeline we created together), we will go to couples counseling. I think having a timeline in place is helping me to feel like I''m not trapped.

The transition into marriage is not easy...even when you''ve been together a LONG time. Sometimes being together for so long can make the transition more difficult. I think as long as you''re both committed to working it out, you will, but keeping an open mind and recognizing your own role in the relationship is key. For us, pinpointing the problem was tough, but working on it has been easier. Good luck!

 

[RxTechRN2b]

I''m sorry you''re going through this. The important think is that you recognise a problem before it''s too late. My XH tried different things during our 20 years of marriage (my situation was quite different, however. He was physically/mentally abusive and I was just stupid to put up with it for so long) including pastors, professional counselling, and retreats called "marriage encounters." The thing that worked best for us was the WRITING technique that we learned in the retreats. Each person is given the same question and goes to separate rooms to write an answer for 10-20 minutes. Then the tablets are exchanged and again in separate rooms the answers are read and responded to (in timed writing). Finally the tablet goes back to the original writer, the responses are read silently but together in the same room, and then discussed. During the discussion, only one person is allowed to speak at a time, and is not allowed to be interrupted until finished. You can have a tile or some object for the speaker to hold, when done speaking the tile is handed over. You may only speak when the tile is given to you by your partner, and when you give it to him, you may not speak until he gives it back. Questions for writing exercises can be deep or as frivolous as you want. Ex) what was the first thing that attracted you to me, describe your fears for the future. Eventually, though, you get around to writing/talking about the important stuff. The thing about writing in turns is that you get to say what you feel without being interrupted and falling into a fight. And reading the response let''s you digest what the other person has to say before jumping in with your opinion. Of course, professional counselling would be my first recommendation because they can guide your conversation and help you figure out a workable solution.

 

[krispi]

I''m sorry you''re going through this, and I know how awful and scary it can feel. What you''ve described sounds a lot like my relationship with my ex-husband. I know you said he''s not crazy about the idea of counseling, but I think you should consider going by yourself. The counselor can still give you insight and help you with some coping mechanisms.

One thing my counselor suggested when I was in couples therapy with my ex is to have a time out policy when arguments get heated. It''s good to agree on the policy ahead of time so that it doesn''t come as a surprise. When you feel yourself starting to get really upset, you can tell your dh that you are going into the other room for 10 minutes (or however long you agree that you need) to calm down and that you will return when that 10 minutes is up to discuss the issue calmly.

I''m glad you realize now that this is an issue. My parents fought all the time when I was younger, so I always thought that was just how married people acted. By the time we ended up in counseling, it was too late - my ex had already mentally checked out of the relationship. By identifying and working on the issue now, you''re making sure the same thing doesn''t happen to you.

 

[decodelighted]

There''s been lots of good advice & I''m all for counseling as a method of developing tools that can be used in the "heat of the moment" & for talking back to yourself & helping yourself analyze objectively (even if the results aren''t always flattering!)

But I also thought of one more little piece of advice maybe ... related to this

Date: 7/17/2008 9:51:53 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/17/2008 9:35:19 PM
Author:NoID
We both seem to react to each other''s actions very strongly and have no patience for each other. Screaming matches, walking away from each other, the works.

Sometimes I think the only thing you can do to a challenge like ''you can''t control me, I can do what I want'' is ''well, you''re right. I can''t. I have a preference, and I can let it be known, but you gotta do what you gotta do.''

DH & I were about to get into an argument the other day on a long disputed, never resolved topic. Topic, not issue. Topic = haircuts. Issue = control. His hair is getting long (which I like, cuz its curly & adorable) but he wants to get it cut & was threatening to go to the maul & get it chopped rather than wait for an appointment with the "fancy" hairdresser I''ve been asking him to go to. So it went like this ..

Him: AGH I have to get my hair cut. It''s driving me crazy
Me: But it''s so CUTE.
Him: I''m gonna go get it chopped tomorrow.
Me: No! You have a "guy" now ... remember, your guy? The one who makes your hair look great ... not that $15 maul buzz cut!
and here is where it started to escalate
Him: BACK WHEN I WAS AN ADULT I COULD MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS ABOUT MY HAIR
and here is where it turned
Me: I prefer to think of that time as when you were "feral" ... now you''re "domesticated".
Him: (hysterical laughter)

Humor: It diffuses. Sometimes its realizing your *own* ridiculousness ... and sometimes its recognizing the ridiculousness of the "topic". Anyway, I stopped bugging him about his hair (for the time being).

 

[iwannaprettyone]

Date: 7/18/2008 11:04:51 AM
Author: decodelighted
There''s been lots of good advice & I''m all for counseling as a method of developing tools that can be used in the ''heat of the moment'' & for talking back to yourself & helping yourself analyze objectively (even if the results aren''t always flattering!)

But I also thought of one more little piece of advice maybe ... related to this

Date: 7/17/2008 9:51:53 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/17/2008 9:35:19 PM
Author:NoID
We both seem to react to each other''s actions very strongly and have no patience for each other. Screaming matches, walking away from each other, the works.

Sometimes I think the only thing you can do to a challenge like ''you can''t control me, I can do what I want'' is ''well, you''re right. I can''t. I have a preference, and I can let it be known, but you gotta do what you gotta do.''

DH & I were about to get into an argument the other day on a long disputed, never resolved topic. Topic, not issue. Topic = haircuts. Issue = control. His hair is getting long (which I like, cuz its curly & adorable) but he wants to get it cut & was threatening to go to the maul & get it chopped rather than wait for an appointment with the ''fancy'' hairdresser I''ve been asking him to go to. So it went like this ..

Him: AGH I have to get my hair cut. It''s driving me crazy
Me: But it''s so CUTE.
Him: I''m gonna go get it chopped tomorrow.
Me: No! You have a ''guy'' now ... remember, your guy? The one who makes your hair look great ... not that $15 maul buzz cut!
and here is where it started to escalate
Him: BACK WHEN I WAS AN ADULT I COULD MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS ABOUT MY HAIR
and here is where it turned
Me: I prefer to think of that time as when you were ''feral'' ... now you''re ''domesticated''.
Him: (hysterical laughter)

Humor: It diffuses. Sometimes its realizing your *own* ridiculousness ... and sometimes its recognizing the ridiculousness of the ''topic''. Anyway, I stopped bugging him about his hair (for the time being).

ITA humor is great.

When me and SO get into it, it is usually because we are both tired. He has apnea and is *suppose* to wear a CPAP mask, but after a couple of hours that thing is off....

So Decos agrument would go like this....


Him: AGH I have to get my hair cut. It''s driving me crazy
Me: But it''s so CUTE.
Him: I''m gonna go get it chopped tomorrow.
Me: No! You have a ''guy'' now ... remember, your guy? The one who makes your hair look great ... not that $15 maul buzz cut!
and here is where it started to escalate
Him: BACK WHEN I WAS AN ADULT I COULD MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS ABOUT MY HAIR
and here is where it turned
Me: If you had choked on your tongue all night we wouldn''t be having this conversation
Him: (hysterical laughter)

 

[purrfectpear]

The only thing that really stood out in your post other than your general concern and unhappiness, was your strong reaction to a hubby that has two drinks every night. It''s pretty clear that you "hate" it as you say, yet you also say that you don''t think he has a drinking problem, so I guess you just don''t approve of drinking? Is that it, or is there more to that? If it''s not a religious thing, then I have to say from my perspective it seems unusually controlling for you to be that bugged about 2 drinks a day? Sounds like a topic for a counselor to help you guys work through, along with other issues you may have.

Good luck, a good counselor should be able to help you guys sort it all out

 

[NoID]

Thank you all for your opinions and take on the situation.

iluvcarats - I laughed when I saw your post because your dog seems genuinely sad for me. What a face! You're right about the therapy - I told my DH yesterday that if he doesn't want to go for now that I'll start going myself.

surfgirl - We went to counseling for several months...it was really good for us. It was fng expensive, but worth it.

IG - I DEFINITELY acknowledge I have issues. And I will definitely be going to therapy myself. Good question about the other 8 years - we have always had power struggles of one kind or another. But we didn't fight like this. Sometimes we'd go through a bad couple of weeks, getting on each other's nerves, but then we'd be back to normal and have fun and enjoy each other's company. But I think we have always had power struggles. And although I do think that in every situation BOTH people contribute to the problem, if I had to take a guess, most of these issues come from me because I definitely, by far, am more controlling. I like what you said about the "you're right, but that's my preference" - it really is all we can do. I know I can't control him. And I do agree that one of the breakthroughs every couple needs to have is realizing and accepting that not everything the other person does is to get on your nerves/personal. I think that's DH's problem issue more than it is for me (except in this instance, with the 2 shots a day - only because it seems like too much coincidence that after years of not doing it, he's picking it back up now - HOWEVER - if I am to step away and hear and listen to what you're saying - perhaps the stress of fighting and what's going on between us is what is making him pick it back rather than anything else I'm assuming. That has its own problems for me though - I don't necessarily like the idea of him using alcohol to unwind - there are healthier ways.)

shiny - I am about to be added to his insurance, so yes, I will look into that (when we went before we went through his - the therapist "fixed it" so that we could.

girlie - I love writing and have done that in the past, for all the reasons you mention. And I totally have lingering issues I am projecting onto him! haha As I am sure he is doing with me. I understand that both people come into relationships with their own baggage, hurts, issues. And I am totally willing to go back to therapy myself and see what I can do to not further contribute the demise of our relationship. Thanks for the hugs.

AGBF - thanks for your support and suggestion. Managing my reactions is DEFNITELY something I need to learn to do.

ally - you don't need to be married to experience the very same things we are. Your advice was dead on - sometimes fights start with one issue and a whole other 10 get brought up - overwhelming, frustrating, and so sad. I DON'T want the 2 shots to become a daily habit. I don't know why, I just don't like it. I like to drink, like wine, we've gone out and drank too much together, but I don't like the idea of drinking every day, especially to relieve stress. I know lots of people go home and drink a couple of beers, but I don't like it. I'll address Purrfect's post because she asks a couple of questions related to this. It's not a religious thing, I'm not against drinking, I just think it's scary to me that someone would drink every day. If I try to pinpoint it, it's a fear of it spiraling out of control. From 2 drinks going to 4 on an extra stressful day. Things like that. To me drinking is more something you do socially. Maybe the key here is that it is just about controlling him - not sure, honestly. But the ONLY way I might even BEGIN to be OK with a routine of drinking every night would have to backed up by fact - that a man his age/weight, etc., 2 drinks a day is perfectly OK. Maybe I should research it.

phoenix - no, we didn't particularly drink a lot during the wedding and honeymoon. Not sure if I would like the 2 drinks better than the 2 shots - in my mind I realize they're exactly the same - but I know what you're trying to ask. Maybe it's the fact that the shots are done so quick, there might some anxiety that he'll drink more then? I told DH that I did some research, and that we're in a power struggle, and that I would be sending him some articles for him to read so he understand it a little bit better. I do think the shots thing is his own preference - it probably isn't anything against me.

He probably stopped doing it all this time just for me and maybe now he's saying "but why should I?" As far as the once or twice a month, I know it isn't a lot...and yes, I've been trying to be OK with whatever he wants to do - today he's going to a baseball game after work.

Lara - not belligerent AT ALL, or withdrawn, or surly. He simply is having a glass or two. As I said in my response to Ally, yes, I have this fear that he'll become dependent on alcohol to relieve stress...however irrational that fear may be...and I totally would be for going to therapy on a consistent basis rather than when we're in a crisis. But because it's expensive, you know how it is...you get to OK and then you stop going. I know he's going through a lot of stress financially because of the wedding, yes. And I don't think he expected any more roasted chickens than when were just living together - or at least he hasn't told me he has.

NEL - I am definitely going to buy those books! What are the titles? Is there one you recommend reading first? I totally take responsibility for my part in this dynamic we've created - and I do think we're both totally committed to working this out.

RX - I like this writing technique you're talking about! Isn't it so cute when guys are willing to do these kinds of things? I know inside they're probably like

but it's so sweet when they agree. I think many times they're surprised just how effective these kinds of things can be. I think that DH interrupts me a lot when I talk and as much as I try to explain that I lose my train of thought when he does that, he doesn't get it - he's like "but then I'll forget what I wanted to say!" The interruptions really bother me and usually we end up fighting about it.

krispi - we tried setting those kinds of rules but we never stick to them in the heat of the moment. I'm telling you our fights are BAD.

I know this is what we're supposed to do but I think we're both so mad we're like F the rule. Not always - there's been times when one of us has been the bigger person and just simply said "hey I dont' want to fight". That's so wonderful when that happens.

deco - hahahaha I can totally picture you guys having that conversation. You are so right about humor. At one time we used to be able to do that. But now we're just so pissed at each other I think that even if one of us thinks of a joke, we wouldn't say it. I want to get back to that time.

IWAPO - you are so right about the being tired - I am TERRIBLE when I'm tired - I have NO patience. But it's usually the time when DH will say something stupid.

hahaha

 

[LuckyTexan]

In my experience, and my life long state of always making friends with MEN over women... and from growing up with parents who have now been married 38 years, I can tell you this:

Perception, and reaction is everything.

Sometimes what you DON''T say, can be more meaningful than what you do say.

HOW you carry yourself, how you view yourself, HE can see that. He can sense your attitudes, and emotions without you saying anything. If you are lonely, and want attention, and seem too needy... that can actually make him want to be around you LESS... If you are resentful toward him, or he you, that cloud will hang over you!

You mentioned his need for social interaction, and your feelilng like you don''t fulfill that stereotypical ''wife'' role... cleaning, cooking, etc... and that you are alone all day, and he doesn''t ever get that time... do you feel like you are really enjoying running your own business from home? I own my own business at home as well, and sometimes I feel very alone, because of the fact that I interact very little with other adults IRL.

How the two of you fight, is something YOU can immediately do something about. Don''t make excuses, don''t blame him. You can see that there is a power play, so YOU take control of the situation, by diffusing it! Being in power doesn''t always have to be by having the final word, or ''winning'' the argument. You can be in control by being the person who makes the situation better.

The money that was spent on the big party, it''s gone. Now it''s time to get real. This is the real thing. You had a wedding... time to have a marriage!

I wish you both the best of luck in finding out who you are as a husband and a wife. You are no longer just two people. You are one!

 

[phoenixgirl]

Usually I try to be more Socratic, but you've asked for advice (whatever it's worth -- maybe nothing!), so I'll say that I think you need to let the drinking thing go.

You say that you are afraid that he'll get out of control, and you like to be in control, obviously. But that's you. I'm betting he is very much the opposite of you in his risk aversion and impulse control and everything, right? Because that's what usually works for a couple. So for you, the analytical one who likes to make choices deliberately, you see where drinking might end and want to avoid that negative outcome. But if he has had no adverse reactions and no alcoholism in his family history, then drinking one to two drinks a day for men is more healthy than not drinking at all. I'm not kidding.

"Men who have one or two alcoholic drinks a day are 30 to 40 percent less likely to have heart attacks than men who don't drink alcohol." Katzen, Mollie and Walter Willett, M.D. Eat, Drink, and Weigh Less. p. 76

And despite the common perception that this is just from red wine, it's any type of alcohol. Moderate drinking is defined as one a day for women since we tend to be smaller and metabolize alcohol more slowly pound for pound than men.

But health benefits aside, I don't think this is about alcohol. I think this is about control. You've married this man, and hopefully he is the kind of man that you like, not just love. Hopefully you like what he wants to watch on tv and do in his free time. At the very least, I hope you'll accept who he is, what he likes to do. And he's got vices and bad traits, I'm sure, but not any deal breakers, right? Because the deal has already been done. If you try to change him, he will resent you, if he doesn't already.

You like the man you married, right? Then let him be who he is, and expect the same from him. That's the best gift you can give your marriage. Let him go out, let him have two shots a day. Instead of preventing negative outcomes--he starts drinking more than two shots a day, or he goes out so much that you feel neglected--let him be happy in doing what he wants to do, and wait until there really is a problem before you step in. Because I think that if you are always indicating, verbally or not, what is or isn't ok for him to do, then it'll be like the little boy who called wolf if there is ever a situation where you cannot accept his choice. He'll just think, oh, you always disapprove of everything I want to do, I'm going to do it anyway. Save your veto card for something that really would be a deal-breaker. Otherwise this arrangement doesn't sound like a very good "deal" on his part.

DH's best friend dated a woman on and off for years who, well, didn't seem to really like him. We always laugh about that, "She didn't even like him!" He's a great guy, an avid cyclist. She hated his cycling, she hated him hanging out with anyone who wasn't her. During the periods when they were together, we would never see him. You'd think she'd encourage him to hang out with us, a married couple, since she was hellbent on getting him to marry her. I mean, I'd think, oh, my boyfriend should spend more time with married people so he'll want that for himself. But no, she wanted to control everything.

I remember the one time (like, literally) we hung out, and she went on and on about how stupid his cycling was and how he wasted his money on crap he didn't need. I tried to be a good example of accepting your partner and said things like, "Well, yeah, it's expensive, but it's good for DH and it makes him happy" but it was lost on her. We are so thankful it didn't work out. He deserves someone who likes him the way he is. If she could find something wrong with him having a passion for a sport and getting a good workout, then she would have disapproved of anything he did. I'm sure she didn't think of it like that, but that's the truth. It was about control, not the details.

 

[Vix]

You've gotten great advice upthread, and I hope you two can change the dynamic. Given that you're both strong-willed individuals who dislike being controlled, I bet it's tough to find that balance between inter-dependent and ARGHH WHERE IS MY FREE WILL?

I DON'T want the 2 shots to become a daily habit. I don't know why, I just don't like it. I like to drink, like wine, we've gone out and drank too much together, but I don't like the idea of drinking every day, especially to relieve stress. I know lots of people go home and drink a couple of beers, but I don't like it. I'll address Purrfect's post because she asks a couple of questions related to this. It's not a religious thing, I'm not against drinking, I just think it's scary to me that someone would drink every day. If I try to pinpoint it, it's a fear of it spiraling out of control. From 2 drinks going to 4 on an extra stressful day. Things like that. To me drinking is more something you do socially.

I absolutely get this and agree with you, and wanted to throw some support your way on this issue.

IM(unfortunate) experience -- involving multiple people -- by late 30s people who can take or leave alcohol do more leaving of it than taking. The drinking could be nothing, or it could be that there's some self-medicating going on for anxiety and/or depression. I've certainly seen it go both ways.

I think he's lucky to have someone who's attuned to his moods and behaviors, someone who wants her husband to be *truly* happy and fulfilled. And I assume he wants the same for you. Pathological/abusive controlling aside, one person's "controlling" is another's "caretaking." Good luck finding the balance that will work for you both. Oh -- and yes, I think he needs to hear from you that he's welcome to get out more...or maybe he does need more time alone in your place and you can venture out a bit more!

 

[reader]

Also, have you asked at work? A lot of companies will pay for a limited number of counseling sessions.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/19/2008 4:05:40 PM
Author: phoenixgirl

You like the man you married, right?Then let him be who he is, and expect the same from him. That''s the best gift you can give your marriage. Let him go out, let him have two shots a day. Instead of preventing negative outcomes--he starts drinking more than two shots a day, or he goes out so much that you feel neglected--let him be happy in doing what he wants to do, and wait until there really is a problem before you step in.

Save your veto card for something that really would be a deal-breaker.

This is *extremely* sage advice.

The relationships I know that work really well are those in which both partner *know* each other, and each really likes the other as s/he is.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/19/2008 4:05:40 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
Save your veto card for something that really would be a deal-breaker. Otherwise this arrangement doesn''t sound like a very good ''deal'' on his part.

Maybe before you bring up the counselling idea again, maybe you should make a deal with yourself that you will not agitate, or even respond to bad vibes for an entire MONTH (or even two!!)

Let him go out, do his thing, be as reasonable, peacable, loving, serene and positive as you can for a set time... and then suggest the ongoing counselling sessions again. You might be surprised at what an extended period of ''biting your tongue'' can do.

Mark the period on your calendar to give you strength!

You might have laughed at my suggestion of cooking for your man, but you might be pleasantly encouraged by his (gradual) response to your caring for him...nothing like having scratch for tea several times a week to put a person in a bad mood!

If you''re working at home, like it or not, he probably expects that you''ll take care of this side of things.

If you''re feeling sad, cooking / nurturing yourself and others is probably the last thing you can be bothered with right now. Particularly if it feels politically ''wierd'' to have to bother. In your first post you mentioned you don''t really ''take care'' of him in the typical sense. But learning a few caring habits might help you both, when you''re at the emotional stage that you currently are at.

Anyway, all the best, and sorry for posting twice,
I really hope it all works out really great.
L.

 

[miraclesrule]

No ID, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. You sound very scared and sad because you need connection, and love and security. I get a sense that you have your own wounds, as we all do, but that you may have a wound that is in some way, connected to alcohol. Is that the case?

I am by no means a counselor or an expert in relationships, but one quote keeps coming to mind from "A Course in Miracles", or I don't know, I think it was from that book.

But it was:

Every act is an act of love, or a call for love.

Maybe it will help to remember that when you are about to escalate into an argument or fight with your love. It's easier said than done, but I think if you can do it, you create a miracle.

 

[surfgirl]

I''m not sure why people are saying to let him be the way he is in terms of doing shots on a daily basis? To me that''s not normal at all. Nor is drinking alcohol on a daily basis. That part is the biggest problem to me. Have you talked specifically about that specific issue? Have you tried to come to some sort of deal, perhaps alcoholic drinks on weekends only?

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 7/21/2008 1:47:44 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m not sure why people are saying to let him be the way he is in terms of doing shots on a daily basis? To me that''s not normal at all. Nor is drinking alcohol on a daily basis. That part is the biggest problem to me. Have you talked specifically about that specific issue? Have you tried to come to some sort of deal, perhaps alcoholic drinks on weekends only?

BIG DITTO!!!!!!!

I was shocked by most of the responses. This is a red flag to me.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 7/21/2008 1:47:44 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m not sure why people are saying to let him be the way he is in terms of doing shots on a daily basis? To me that''s not normal at all. Nor is drinking alcohol on a daily basis. That part is the biggest problem to me. Have you talked specifically about that specific issue? Have you tried to come to some sort of deal, perhaps alcoholic drinks on weekends only?

um, ditto. i''m not a drinker but i''m pretty sure there''s a big difference between having two beers in the evening and sitting down and doing shots by yourself. correct me if i''m wrong, but isn''t the point of doing shots to get drunk, or at least buzzed? it''s not like savoring a glass of wine! is it possible the state of your relationship has contributed to him taking up drinking again? (that sounds bad...i''m NOT suggesting that it''s your fault at all!!) maybe he''s too on edge to relax and that''s what he''s turned to? i don''t have any solutions to offer (and i''mm sorry if i''m just reiterating something someone already said), but maybe he''s doing it less out of indignation, and more out of trying to cope. if he doesn''t get out as much as he''d like to, maybe it''s his attempt to still have some *fun*, or maybe get back to his life before marriage? (although the power struggle theory certainly sounds extremely plausible too). maybe if you approached him gently about it, and instead of accusing him of doing it out of spite, ask him if he''s having a hard time relaxing and see if you can give him a massage or something? even if he IS doing it out of spite, it might soften him to know that you are concerned about HIM and not just him in relation to you, if that make sense.

i''m sorry you are having to struggle with this - i really hope that you are able to find a way to get back into therapy! good luck!

 

[wishful]

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=His+Needs+Her+needs

The above book is amazing. It''s not just all about people who are going through an affair. It''s more about the behavior that goes all wrong and then results in one. I''m not by any means saying that is your situation but there is sooooooo much valuable info in this book about marriages in genral and where we go wrong I HIGHLY suggest you get this book and give it a read.

Good luck.

 

[purrfectpear]

I can understand how some of you in your twenties (the Jaegermeister generation) think that shots are for the purpose of getting a buzz, or drunk, but that is not the case for most older folks. Some people just prefer their alcohol neat without soda, mixer, or tonic.

Two shots of something per night is nothing IMO. Two every hour all night is something to worry about. Perhaps it''s my generation but I don''t think I know many people who don''t have a glass or two of beer, wine, or mixed drink several times a week, if not daily. Speaking for myself, I prefer a daily MINIMAL drinker to the person who goes out on Friday or Saturday night and get''s stinking drunk.

My doctor has recommended two 8 oz. glasses of wine daily (heart and cholesteral benefits).

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 7/21/2008 2:32:02 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I can understand how some of you in your twenties (the Jaegermeister generation) think that shots are for the purpose of getting a buzz, or drunk, but that is not the case for most older folks. Some people just prefer their alcohol neat without soda, mixer, or tonic.

Two shots of something per night is nothing IMO. Two every hour all night is something to worry about. Perhaps it''s my generation but I don''t think I know many people who don''t have a glass or two of beer, wine, or mixed drink several times a week, if not daily. Speaking for myself, I prefer a daily MINIMAL drinker to the person who goes out on Friday or Saturday night and get''s stinking drunk.

My doctor has recommended two 8 oz. glasses of wine daily (heart and cholesteral benefits).

I totally see your point, Purrfectpear. However, it''s suspect to me that he used to do it, stopped for years, and then started again. Seems to me like he realized it was a problem at one point, stopped it, and is now having troubles dealing with his marriage and has started again. That means he''s using liquor to solve his problems, as opposed to enjoying a drink or two. That to me is the red flag. Drinking to forget or deal with life is a prelude to alcoholism.