SAPPHIRE EXPERTS! I need your opinions (please :D)

[Lauren Hayes]

I'm in the market for a Sapphire engagement ring. I've done extensive research on these stones and believe I have a pretty good understanding of the grading and quality standards of sapphires. However, I know that many of you are MUCH better versed than I am and I would like opinions! I'll reserve my thoughts for the comments...

 

[Nosean]

Is the tip of the pavillion damaged?

 

[ExoticGems]

This sapphire has a nice size but it seems that the culet is chipped, the color is also reminiscent of a blue spinel in my opinion.

 

[Lauren Hayes]

I have no idea what the cutlet or pavilion are?The stone and setting are both from the 1940’s (or claimed to be). I do know that there was a chip and scratch which they had polished out, changing the carat weight to 5.4. I’m currently waiting on the new appraisal.

Also, just a note, this ring is listed at $23k.

This is why I needed sapphire experts!

 

[Nosean]

OK - culet....




And yes - look of a ( nice) blue spinel with a touch of green. 23K is to much.

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Aah, I see it now, thank you for taking the time to point it out!

It’s been graded once as a sapphire and I’m waiting on the second appraisal, also as a sapphire. If it was a spinel, wouldn’t the appraiser notice the indescrepency and grade it as such?

Also, on your belief that it’s a spinel, if it were, what would you feel is a fair price for this stone?

Thank you for all your help!

 

[chrono]

Appraisal or lab report? By who?

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Appraisal or lab report? By who?

The stone was appraised once in a different setting by North American Gemological Laboratory which is where the photo I posted with the stone information was taken from. I should receive the appraisal with the new setting by the end of the week. I’m assuming it will be by the same company.

I’m pretty well versed in diamonds but have little knowledge on sapphires...unfortunately

 

[chrono]

With that asking price, it’s either AGL or GIA only. That said, before going down that route, are you 100% over the moon with it? Will the culet bother you? The appearance under various light sources? What is the return policy? Is there a restocking fee?

 

[ExoticGems]

I would also only trust Gia or Agl with this stone, a appraiser is wrong many times with authenticating/detection of treatments. also 23k is way to much in my opinion.

 

[chrono]

Agree it’s high for a heated sapphire.

 

[T L]

Appraisals are typically much higher than the actual stone is worth.

 

[Nosean]

No, I don't think it IS a spinel!!!

The color looks a bit LIKE a blue spinel. And this is not a compliment for an expensive sapphire.

 

[Bron357]

Here is one of my 9mm blue sapphires. I originally thought it had a “chipped” cutlet but in fact it’s a facet. I guess it’s like the OEC diamond cut. Mine is also an older sapphire.
I agree with the others, $23k for a heated sapphire seems a bit steep and it’s not the “best” shade of blue. By “best” I mean some sapphire colours are much more popular / favored, so their prices are higher.

 

[Frost]

It's slightly greenish. If it were a spinel, it'd be a great quality one; as a sapphire though, it should have a purer blue color with a secondary purple modifier (of no more than 5-10% if the blue is strongly saturated).

The most valuable ones are pure blues with absolutely no green and only purple as the secondary modifier, often so faint as to barely be detectable. One caveat is that they should be seen in normal daylight to judge color, as incandescent/yellow light is useless to grade sapphire color (and will often make things appear greenish, purplish, violet, etc. - it's normal).

It's possible the stone was cut in the incorrect orientation because of the shape of the original rough so it's greenish now, or it's possible it comes from a source that more often produces greenish blues than the purer and more commercially viable purple ones.

That said, rounds in this size are very rare in just about any color. Round is normally the last thing one sees with sapphires because the rough shapes aren't well suited for it so rounds usually come at a significant premium in sizes over 2 carats because the rough loss is huge. And they almost never come in top colors or if they do, they cost all the more for it.

 

[Arcadian]

So, my thought is that the 23K is for the entire ring (is this correct?)

I will say I think its a little much for heated sapphire though not unheard of. Its a matter of you finding it worth it or not.

If you're open to other shapes, then look at cushion cuts. You may well find better selection there.

I'm going to echo the peanut (gemnuts) gallery and say have the stone checked by a top tier lab. An appraisal is fine, but not enough when shelling out this type of dough. You need to know what you really have. If its been heated, you might want to know if its a heat only stone or not.

As @Frost mentioned, round sapphires do carry a premium. IN fact, lots of round stones do. They shouldn't but there you are....

 

[Lauren Hayes]

With that asking price, it’s either AGL or GIA only. That said, before going down that route, are you 100% over the moon with it? Will the culet bother you? The appearance under various light sources? What is the return policy? Is there a restocking fee?

I fell in love with the ring the moment I saw it. I never noticed the chipped cutlet and it’s possible that that’s one of the chips he discussed having polished (reducing the weight from 5.7 to 5.4). I’ve been back and forth with the guy for some while now waiting for the appraisal. The good news, is he has a 90 day 100% money back guarantee so if I did choose to purchase it, I could theoretically send it to GIA for grading with plenty of time.

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Also, here’s the sellers response after I asked him why he chose to use North American Gemological Laboratory over GIA or AGL

“The lab we use for all of our appraisals is here in the same city as us which is why we use them. They are also appraisers and provide both certification as well as appraisal values. GIA is a very good lab for diamonds and colored stones, especially if you want to determine the origin of a stone. GIA does not appraise or provide values, just specifics. The lab we use doesn't certify origin but they do determine treatments and enhancements.”

I’m not sure how I feel about that response...

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Also, keep in mind the $23k price is for the ring as a whole, not just the stone. The ring and stone are both from the 1940’s. What do you all feel would be a fair price for this ring?

Thank you all again for you help! I’m slightly heartbroken but better to be educated than not. You guys seriously have great eyes. I still can’t see the green...

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Ok, so the plot thickens...I got back the new report from NAGL and it shows NO enhancement where the previous report says it was heat treated. This actually is more in line with what I was originally told, which that it wasn't treated. I have no idea why this would be...


***EDIT***
Emailed and got this response regarding the heat treatment
"When I originally purchased the sapphire, I did so with the understanding that it was a no heat stone. When it comes as appraised previously I asked them about it and they said that it was very clean so it had the appearance of heat, so I didn’t ask them to re-check. When we recently had the stone repaired, the cutter also thought it was "non heated, and when I sent it back in, I didn’t say it was a stone that had been previously evaluated a few years prior. This time they determined that it hadn’t been heat treated. Sapphires experience heat naturally in the earth as well so when stones are very clear and lacking inclusion and Internal characteristics sometimes they are more challenging."

*************************************************************************************

Also, I don't know why I didn't include this earlier. A video in sunlight!

 

[Nosean]

Lovely sighthound!

My opinion - 27K is to much. I have no experience with setting but this is just gold so most of the 27K is the stone. And in the video I see a sapphire with an impressive size and a rare round one - ok!

But not a WOW stone. Not the fantastic shades of blue we see in fine sapphire.

You find a much better stone for this amount of money.

In Munichshow I have seen many larger and fine sapphires from this company - a very fine 2,0 ct kashmire sapphire for 45K with I really loved and couldn't buy of course...

http://www.saragem.com/?

 

[Acinom]

Personally I like the stone and ring a lot. I do not detect any green on my screen.
The advice given here was given by very knowlegdgeable PSers. I bought my sapphire locally and have no experience in buying sapphire online.
I would be tempted by this beautiful ring, especially when I see the video. With a reliable lab report (and a good return policy and money back guarantee), I would offer around 20k $
Again: I am no expert, just love the look of a beautiful sapphire. It will be great as an ER. Have you seen more sapphires in real life for comparison?

 

[T L]

Ok, so the plot thickens...I got back the new report from NAGL and it shows NO enhancement where the previous report says it was heat treated. This actually is more in line with what I was originally told, which that it wasn't treated. I have no idea why this would be...


***EDIT***
Emailed and got this response regarding the heat treatment
"When I originally purchased the sapphire, I did so with the understanding that it was a no heat stone. When it comes as appraised previously I asked them about it and they said that it was very clean so it had the appearance of heat, so I didn’t ask them to re-check. When we recently had the stone repaired, the cutter also thought it was "non heated, and when I sent it back in, I didn’t say it was a stone that had been previously evaluated a few years prior. This time they determined that it hadn’t been heat treated. Sapphires experience heat naturally in the earth as well so when stones are very clear and lacking inclusion and Internal characteristics sometimes they are more challenging."

*************************************************************************************

Also, I don't know why I didn't include this earlier. A video in sunlight!

It definitely reminds me of a blue spinel as I have some that color. The ring is a plain gold setting, no diamonds, and so the bulk of the price is in the stone. They want around $4700/ct for that gem, which I personally think is more than twice as much as it should be. I think I wouldn't offer more than $12k, even without heat and it's size. I just don't see that as a $4,700/ct stone, sorry.

 

[Lauren Hayes]

Personally I like the stone and ring a lot. I do not detect any green on my screen.
The advice given here was given by very knowledgeable PSers. I bought my sapphire locally and have no experience in buying sapphire online.
I would be tempted by this beautiful ring, especially when I see the video. With a reliable lab report (and a good return policy and money back guarantee), I would offer around 20k $
Again: I am no expert, just love the look of a beautiful sapphire. It will be great as an ER. Have you seen more sapphires in real life for comparison?

I love it a lot as well. Paired with my grandparents gold bands, I think it's a gorgeous and set with an interesting history. I'm interested in the quality of the stone and wanted educated opinions on sapphires but I'm probably going to end up getting it, despite the disappointing news that it's overpriced. Luckily, the company has a 60 day 100% money back guarantee (including return shipping!) so I'm considering purchasing it, sending it off to GIA to have a full report done and if I end up not being satisfied, I have the option of returning it.

Ultimately, I've come to the conclusion that I may not even favor the top quality sapphire. I like the more royal blue and I'm getting the impression that a deeper blue is more favored within the general Sapphire grading. I think it's gorgeous anyhow!

 

[Bron357]

My 5 cents- I really like the colour of that sapphire. I think it looks breathtakingly beautiful in the video. I’m not seeing any green.
Yes, it’s probably a bit overpriced, but when it comes to coloured gems because their colour and size is more unique (than say diamonds) you just don’t have a couple of dozen to choose from.
Can’t hurt to offer a little less than the asking price.
And lots of photos on your finger please.

 

[Acinom]

I hope it is as stunning in real life as in the video (in most lighting conditions).
And listen well to your gut feeling when you receive it: it’s too expensive to keep it if you do not really love it.

It’s great that you have taken your own decision but in an informed way. You should indeed try to get the price down a bit as it never hurts to try!

I am so looking forward to see your pics.

 

[daneshpastry]

It's definitely an unusual colour- the green cast may be due to the yellow gold setting(?) I know all photos are enhanced when it comes to buying gemstones, but those pics are ENHANCED. I'm also anxious to see your personal pics.

That being said I think it's a stunning stone with a great cut, as long as the culet doesn't bother you.

 

[SapphireShopper]

Hi guys,
I'm in need of your expertise as well.
Could you guys kindly assess these two sapphires and give me some feedback on them?

1.21 carat Oval Natural Blue Sapphire

25959 - This 1.21 Oval Blue Sapphire is sold exclusively by James Allen

www.jamesallen.com

1.31 carat Oval Natural Blue Sapphire

22365 - This 1.31 Oval Blue Sapphire is sold exclusively by James Allen

www.jamesallen.com

Thank you in advance!

 

[lmyracle]

Hi guys,
I'm in need of your expertise as well.
Could you guys kindly assess these two sapphires and give me some feedback on them?

1.21 carat Oval Natural Blue Sapphire

25959 - This 1.21 Oval Blue Sapphire is sold exclusively by James Allen

www.jamesallen.com

1.31 carat Oval Natural Blue Sapphire

22365 - This 1.31 Oval Blue Sapphire is sold exclusively by James Allen

www.jamesallen.com

Thank you in advance!

I would start a new thread, @SapphireShopper.

For the original poster, you've said you love the ring and I think that's all that matters but you should take PS opinions into consideration. When I first started looking at sapphire rings, the ones that I loved got shot down and I felt so defeated; but, I kept looking and learning and I waited...it was frustrating and took time but I felt 100% comfortable with the purchase.

Appraisals don't mean jack to me; show me the lab report. By looking for quite some time and researching, you learn a little more about pricing and get a feel for where things should be. I definitely would NOT offer full price and it's good to know they have a money back guarantee.

What matters most is if you love it, truly truly love it. It's a very pretty ring with a unique color for a sapphire. That's my 2 cents but I'm no expert.