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Safety check: should I buy this diamond?

J

Jeroen1000

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
12
Hi everyone,
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R94-610689735

I've been lurking on the forums for some time now. And I could use a final go/no go.
So I think I found the perfect diamond for my budget. The numbers check out, ASET looks ok and staff at Enchanted told me it is eye clean.

Some remarks: Under magnification, a knot and feather should be visible. But I can't see it in the picture or video. I do see some specs on the 1 and 8 o'clock arrows. Is that something I should worry about? There is a small bit of table leakage on the left but I does not look excessive?

Feeling a bit stressed to part from a large amount of money:oops:
 
I also don't particularly like that diamond. I mean, it's not a bad diamond by any stretch of the imagination. It's pretty decent. But I don't like that it looks leaky under the table on that ASET (although I have to say what I can never tell is whether an ASET is tilted or not (and this looks like it might be slightly tilted?), and whether the backlighting is appropriate).

It scores:
  • Tab Percent: 1A
  • Crown Angle: 1B
  • Crown Height: 1A
  • Pavilion Depth: 1B
  • Girdle: 1A
  • Depth: 1A
  • Polish: 1A
  • Symmetry: 1A
  • TotalGrade: 1B
On the AGA/NAJA tool.

I think you can do better. For what it's worth, I used to have a stone that scored 1B. It was a beautiful stone, but I could tell visually it wasn't as good as a stone that scores 1A.

If you give us your tolerance levels for size, colour, clarity and budget we can try and find something else for you. Barring that, if you're set on this stone - and for some people really really good is good enough - the best thing to do is to see it in person - is there a returns policy? You know, we on Pricescope push for a certain level and hope that we can provide that for everyone, but that can come at a cost and for some people they have a different balance of priorities. To get better cut you would have to compromise somewhere, be that colour or size or clarity or more money. Let us know. =)2
 
The backlight is strong, the diamond is tilted, the images are not very well taken.
There should not be significant leakage under that table.
Considering the 4Cs, proportions, no/faint fluo, price and the ASET, this is as good as it gets. I give 9.5 out of 10
 
Ask where the knot is at. If its on the crown it can come out then you have an si2 diamond.
 
flyingpig said:
The backlight is strong, the diamond is tilted, the images are not very well taken.
There should not be significant leakage under that table.
Considering the 4Cs, proportions, no/faint fluo, price and the ASET, this is as good as it gets. I give 9.5 out of 10
Click to expand...

Ok, very fair. @Jeroen1000, I trust @flyingpig over myself any day of the week.

@flyingpig, why does it only score 1B if you rank it so highly? Is it more because of the price point for what he is getting? I did wonder if the ASET was probably under selling it with tilt. I was worried about that combination of numbers but perhaps once you have the ASET you know one way or another?
 
Karl_K said:
Ask where the knot is at. If its on the crown it can come out then you have an si2 diamond.
Click to expand...

Would you be able to explain this in a little more detail? How would that happen?

I have heard some people say that knots are an absolute no-no for them.
 
:confused: It has a cut score of 100?!
 
Lykame said:
Ok, very fair. @Jeroen1000, I trust @flyingpig over myself any day of the week.

@flyingpig, why does it only score 1B if you rank it so highly? Is it more because of the price point for what he is getting? I did wonder if the ASET was probably under selling it with tilt. I was worried about that combination of numbers but perhaps once you have the ASET you know one way or another?
Click to expand...

Regarding the AGA score, I personally do not put too much significant meaning to the score. But if you really look, it got dinged on crown angle and pavilion depth. In my book, 35 crown and 40.6 pavilion angle are perfectly fine.

Regarding the second part of the question, yes, it is about the price and 4C combos the OP is considering. A well cut 0.94c G VS2 is extremely rare, especially at that price point. It may have some digging around the edges, but you cannot be too picky in this 4C and price range.

I wanted to give it a 10/10, but 0.5 deduction is from the knot inclusion, which I thought is not a big deal since it is VS2 and the knot survived harsh polishing and cutting process.
 
flyingpig said:
Regarding the AGA score, I personally do not put too much significant meaning to the score. But if you really look, it got dinged on crown angle and pavilion depth. In my book, 35 crown and 40.6 pavilion angle are perfectly fine.

Regarding the second part of the question, yes, it is about the price and 4C combos the OP is considering. A well cut 0.94c G VS2 is extremely rare, especially at that price point. It may have some digging around the edges, but you cannot be too picky in this 4C and price range.

I wanted to give it a 10/10, but 0.5 deduction is from the knot inclusion, which I thought is not a big deal since it is VS2 and the knot survived harsh polishing and cutting process.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Lykame said:
Would you be able to explain this in a little more detail? How would that happen?

I have heard some people say that knots are an absolute no-no for them.
Click to expand...
A knot is a crystal most often another diamond with in the main diamond that is exposed to the outside.
If its entirely contained its called a crystal.
If the knot is on the crown and the crystal comes out it leaves a cavity vastly lowering the value of the stone.
Who wants a diamond with a cavity on the crown that is going to get filled up with gunk?
This one is a grade setting vs2, most likely on the crown and there is no way of knowing how secure it is from the grading report.
It could be secure enough that its never an issue... or not.....
 
Karl_K said:
A knot is a crystal most often another diamond with in the main diamond that is exposed to the outside.
If its entirely contained its called a crystal.
If the knot is on the crown and the crystal comes out it leaves a cavity vastly lowering the value of the stone.
Who wants a diamond with a cavity on the crown that is going to get filled up with gunk?
This one is a grade setting vs2, most likely on the crown and there is no way of knowing how secure it is from the grading report.
It could be secure enough that its never an issue... or not.....
Click to expand...

Thank you for such an understandable and excellent answer. :kiss2:
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! @cokitty $5000 is my budget. Spot on. I'm actually saving up to add the setting.
As to my goals I searched for a diamond where all the numbers and angels are within ideal tolerances. I used sites like prosumer diamonds and beyond 4C's to come up with the numbers. I than ran it through HCA to confirm.

@Lykame I think the only compromise options are a lower colour grade (H) and a 0.90 diamond instead of 0.94.

@Karl_K
@flyingpig Should I be worried about the knot and enquire further details? Also I don't understand why it got dinged for the crown and pav. angles. 35° - 40.6° is the ideal combination is it not?
 
Echoing @Karl_K. I, personally, eliminate knots on anything not VS1 or higher. Even then,I try to avoid them.

This is a very good cut stone. Ask the vendor to look at the color and take a photo next to a GIA G for you. But, PLEASE put it on hold right away. These ES options disappear quickly. This would get you into a vendor with a 100% cost toward an upgrade (not double the price like Enchanted).
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4068023.htm
 
@rockysalamander Just asked enchanted on the location of the knot inclusion. If it is under the girdle, it should be ok?

I prefer to buy in NY due to location reasons.
 
Jeroen1000 said:
@rockysalamander Just asked enchanted on the location of the knot inclusion. If it is under the girdle, it should be ok?

I prefer to buy in NY due to location reasons.
Click to expand...
No. A knot on the girdle would not be ok to me. The girdle takes a lot of hits in a diamonds life.

Why would buying from Texas be a problem?
 
I mean under the girdle. I'm planning on proposing in NYC if all goes to plan so if there is something wrong I can get it fixed before we fly off home.
 
As Karl explained, a knot is a separate crystal located at the surface. So, its like you took a fired donut with a hole and put a separate donut hole into that space. The fit between these won't be perfect, so the space between them will attract track dirt and oil. The knot can break free of the diamond due to vibration or hit of the right angle and size, but what may cause it is unknown. If the knot breaks free (falls out), you have a hole in the diamond that cannot be repaired and you have dropped your clarity rating to I2 or worse. That hole may be visible from the top and may mirror within the facets. I would not, personally, buy this diamond. I would rather a slightly smaller stone with no knot. So, I'd trade size for avoiding this specific type of inclusion (and I'm someone who owns some SI stones).

If NYC pickup is necessary, my advice would be to call ID Jewelry in NYC. See if they can find you a diamond in your budget that is better than this stone without the worry about the knot. They are very trusted among PS member and are always able to work with a budget. They will take ASET and other images for you and we can help you review them to select among options.

But, given the great option from WF, I would take that option seriously and see what they can do about mailing/sending/delivery.

When do you need the ring by if before your trip?
 
Normally, I would say keep looking.
But again, such well cut 0.94 G VS2 is very rare,unless you want to pay 6.5~7k USD.

I have never seen any consumer coming to PS or other forum complaining about a knot coming off, or resulting in a durability issue. As I mentioned, the knot, in this case, survived the brutal polishing process (and the diamond is polished well); this is according to a trade member from an old thread.
At the same time, many trade members and vendors do not like diamonds with knots. They deal with hundreds if not thousands of diamonds on a monthly basis. If just one diamond happens to have a durability issue from knot inclusion, that's a financial loss of potentially thousands of dollars from just one diamond.

Knowing that there is a (little) risk, no responsible person will give you a clean GO.
I shopped and searched diamonds in this 4C and price range ALOT. It is not an easy decision to make.
 
Jeroen1000 said:
I mean under the girdle. I'm planning on proposing in NYC if all goes to plan so if there is something wrong I can get it fixed before we fly off home.
Click to expand...

if you buy from WF (and don't live in TX), you avoid sales tax...
 
@rockysalamander
Appreciate the thorough response. Really mean that. Regarding the WF stone, I'm definitely giving it serious thought. My main gripe is the HCA score of 2 is on the border of 'you should reject it'. The pav. angle of 40.9 is quite steep for the crown angle of 35°. Then again the IS and ASET are very good which I would not have expected. It's a bit of a paradox.

I need it (at the latest) on April 2nd. I found a stone to challenge the WF one, except for symmetry.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R96-46521539Z?

The more I learn, the tougher the call:-)
 
Jeroen1000 said:
@rockysalamander
Appreciate the thorough response. Really mean that. Regarding the WF stone, I'm definitely giving it serious thought. My main gripe is the HCA score of 2 is on the border of 'you should reject it'. The pav. angle of 40.9 is quite steep for the crown angle of 35°. Then again the IS and ASET are very good which I would not have expected. It's a bit of a paradox.

I need it (at the latest) on April 2nd. I found a stone to challenge the WF one, except for symmetry.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R96-46521539Z?

The more I learn, the tougher the call:)
Click to expand...
Fair enough. But, remember that the HCA's purpose it to weed down the vast numbers of GIA Excellent to a smaller pool worth that would be worth pursuing. From that pool, you would request an ASET. HCA is a very useful coarse filter...but it assumes that a diamond's performance is determined by only the 4 numbers. They are important, but an ASET looks at all the angles and shows you light return on that exact stone (not a theoretical average stone). ASET trumps HCA every time in my book.
 
BTW, I think you're analytical and detailed enough to care about cut precision although pretty new at this. I believe you'll be better off going with an ACA or an ES and save yourself a headache and disappointment down the road.
 
@rockysalamander
@blueMA I think I'm going to go with https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4068023.htm instead of https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R94-610689735

Actually tbh, not entirely for the knot thing but WF seems to have a much better customer service. Would you agree the light performance is less good than with the Enchanted diamond? This due to the 40.9 pav. angle and the 35° crown angle.

ps: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/AGA_NAJA_Cut_Class_Grader is this broken? Because I cannot put int crown or pav. angles
 
Jeroen1000 said:
@rockysalamander
@blueMA I think I'm going to go with https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4068023.htm instead of https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R94-610689735

Actually tbh, not entirely for the knot thing but WF seems to have a much better customer service. Would you agree the light performance is less good than with the Enchanted diamond? This due to the 40.9 pav. angle and the 35° crown angle.

ps: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/AGA_NAJA_Cut_Class_Grader is this broken? Because I cannot put int crown or pav. angles
Click to expand...

Really like that Whiteflash diamond you think you're going for.

It's not broken (maybe it's your browser?). I did it for you:
  • Tab Percent: 1A
  • Crown Angle: 1B
  • Crown Height: 1A
  • Pavilion Depth: 1B
  • Girdle: 1A
  • Depth: 1A
  • Polish: 1A
  • Symmetry: 1A
  • TotalGrade: 1B
I think the ASET is very reassuring. I do note there's maybe a tiny bit of... er... digging? at 14:00. It's really minimal though and I'm not sure it would be noticeable to the naked eye. Perhaps ask Whiteflash about that too.

Personally I think it's a beautiful diamond (I really like the steep crown, I think it will be very firey) and Whiteflash is awesome and have an excellent upgrade policy. Also there's no knot! :geek2:
 
@Lykame the site works like 10% of the time. So thank you for inputting the numbers. I just found a workaround for future ref:
<input id="input_pavilion_depth" name="input_pavilion_depth" class="element text small" type="text" maxlength="255" disabled="disabled" value="43.3">

If I use Firefox Page inspector and remove the disabled="disabled" I can input a value. Same for the crown angle.
Anyway, I digress. I think this diamond will make a fine choice and I should stop obsessing:D
 
WF customer service is outstanding, so you are in great hands with them. I like the stone you're going for !!
 
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