Sad my diamond doesn't sparkle

[Ninadc]

My fiancé and bought our ring from a diamond wholesaler. Not knowing too much about diamond except for the 4 c's my fiancé and I narrowed it down to a D colour, VS2 clarity and excellent cut.

We told this to the wholesaler and she told us from searching on the laptop of a diamond ring that matched what we wanted. She told us the price and it fit our budget so we went ahead and put a deposit down of 10% she also told us that payment will be required as soon as the diamond comes in as they are getting it from overseas. She showed us the GIA certification to make sure we were okay with it. She also included the GIA certification number on the receipt. I've attached a copy of GIA cert

When we got home I googled the diamond certification number and studied the diamond again. This time I learned about fluorescence because the diamond she had ordered although it matched our requirement had strong fluorescence.

I texted the the whiolesaler who sold us the diamond and asked her if this will affect the look of diamond if it will be milky, foggy or oily and if it will affect the value. I also asked if I can change the diamond if I wasn't happy with it. She called me to reassure me that it won't make a difference and that everything is fine an she will check when the diamond arrives.

When it did, she contacted me and I went to check the diamond but in the room without natural sunlight and had tinted window it was hard to tell how sparkly it would be and if fluorescence would be strong but again she reassured me that the diamond is great and perfect. How the colour is a perfect colourless and white and how in sunlight I will see its going to be very sparkly. The diamond looked very white to me and glassy but I didn't know what I was suppose to be looking for. I asked her again what if the strong fluorescence in natural sunlight affects the diamond and I'm not happy can I return it. She replied that it's only if she sees that there is something wrong with the diamond that is completely obvious or if it is not what it says in the GIA certification and in my case the diamond is what it says and there is nothing wrong so the answer is no I cannot change my mind. So I had to go through the whole thing and told her to go ahead and do the setting. She told me about the ring maker/jeweller they work with and how he is excellent, very detailed, meticulous and does a very good job and again reassured me it will be beautiful and perfect.

Two weeks later the ring arrives. My fiancé and I went back to wholesaler to pick it up and go back and she showed us the ring and GIA number on the diamond to ensure it is still the one. It was after work so the sun was setting and we could not inspect the ring to see how sparkly it would be.

When we arrived home my fiancé after careful inspection noticed that the setting is imperfect, one side of the band sits hire than the other side and the triangles that hold the crown of the diamond are uneven and not the same size. At this stage I was starting to get upset and disappointed. The wholesaler was recommend to us and we absolutely put our faith and trust in her only to be let down.

We had to go away for the weekend and could not get it back to the wholesaler. I texted her again to let her know about the band and she said to bring it back so they can fix it.

Having the diamond over the weekend for thorough inspection I have seen that it doesn't sparkle and there is a hazy, grey foggy patch in the middle. It is dull and doesn't sparkle. Sometimes on the very outer edge of the diamond I will catch a glint but never in the middle and other times especially in the morning sun and depending on what angle it looks icy blue, nice but it doesn't sparkle.

As researched more the more I learned that it is because of the very strong fluorescence. I asked my family their opinion not telling them about anything and all commented on how the diamond looks pretty but how come it doesn't sparkle like my sisters. They said it looks like it's plastic.

I am to bringing back the ring tomorrow to the wholesaler but I want to know if I am in a position to be able to and if I have the right to either get a refund or a different diamond all together. But I need advice to make sure what is wrong with the diamond and why it doesn't sparkle so I can prove my case.

Thank you for your help.

 

[krisjon]

Can you post the rest of the GIA paperwork, so we can see the proportions/angles? That will be a starting point.

 

[kenny]

I looked up your GIA report number on GIA report Check.
You have what we call a steep deep.
Unfortunately GIA allows very deep diamonds into their top cut grade.

 

[kenny]

I hope you made sure your vendor has a no-questions asked 100% return policy.
Get a full refund.

Leave this vendor.
Red Flag!: If they say they are a wholesaler they are lying.
Wholesalers don't sell retail.
RUN.

If you bought from a no-refund vendor then change change the diamond.

Read PS to learn about diamonds first.

 

[kenny]

Picking a well-cut round is easier than any other shape.
Here's a 2-step process.

Plug 4 numbers from the lab report into the HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
Reject diamonds scoring over 2.0 (Yours scores 4.9)

Step 2 is to get an Idealscope image on those that scored under 2.0 on the HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Compare the idealscope image to this chart.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

 

[Gypsy]

A) Wholesaler was not a wholesaler. Any vendor that sells to YOU in single quantities is not a whole saler.

B) you need a HECK of a lot more than D VS to get a shiny diamond. You would have been better off with a F SI1 with better cut.

C) Your diamond is poorly cut.


Solution:
See if the dealer will take it back. Or let you upgrade it. We can help you get a better diamond if they will let you upgrade.
Sell it privately.
Have it recut.

 

[kenny]

Read up on fluorescence.
SOME strong and very strongs can have a hazy/oily look under light that has a strong UV content like sunlight.

You can avoid the risk by sticking with no/none/low/negligible and probably medium fluorescence.
Many people avoid it altogether.
Ont the other hand some educated buyers prefer it and seek out Strong or very strong blue fluorescing diamonds that don't have that milky problem.
One vendor, briangavindiamonds, even came out with a line of them.

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[kenny]

About which color and clarity grades to select ...

Ninadc, get out and look at lots of diamonds in person to develop your color and clarity preference.
Try to get them away from the jewelry store lights that can make a lump of coal look sparkly.
And only look at diamonds graded by GIA or AGS.
Other labs lie, they give better color and clarity grades than GIA/AGS would so their diamonds SEEM to be a bargain.
They are not.
They just have bogus grades.

High color and clarity do not contribute to good light performance, only good cut does that .... within reason ... for example a Z I2 cannot transmit light very well, and avoid diamonds with the comment: "Clarity based on clouds not shown".

I've noticed the majority of well-informed diamond buyers end up buy near G-H VS2-SI1, making sure the diamond is eye-clean to THEIR eyes.

After seeing lots of diamonds if you decide you are very color sensitive and are willing to pay the high price for high color and don't let anyone impost their color preference onto you.
Same with clarity.

After they are educated I try to respect the consumer's color and carity grade preferences whether they are at the peak or the outskirts of a bell curve.

 

[Gypsy]

After seeing lots of diamonds if you decide you are very color sensitive and are willing to pay the high price for high color and don't let anyone impost their color preference onto you.
Same with clarity.

After they are educated I try to respect the consumer's color and carity grade preferences whether they are at the peak or the outskirts of a bell curve.

I agree with this with ONE caveat. If you are comparing diamonds for color make sure that the cut quality is equal. An ideal H will outshine a poorly cut F.

You don't want to think that you need an F because the H you see is poorly cut. Make sure that when you are comparing colors the cut is constant and equally good for both stones

The best advice I have is to go to a Hearts on Fire dealer (if there is no PS dealer near you... where are you located again) and compare colors of Hearts on FIre stones? Why? The cut quality will be consistent so the differences you see will be caused by COLOR. And that way you can determine your true color preference.

 

[kenny]

Good point, Gypsy.
Good cut with the higher light return does make a diamond look whiter in soft diffuse light.

BUT, keep in mind that only works in a top view, on axis.
Usually when I see my diamond it is a side view or partially side view.

Good cut doesn't return more light in a side view of a round.
In fact, it more light is directed to come out the top on-axis it's reasonable that less will be sent elsewhere.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Rule #1...NEVER buy diamonds from a so call "wholesaler"... They are full of BS!

 

[kenny]

Having the diamond over the weekend for thorough inspection I have seen that it doesn't sparkle and there is a hazy, grey foggy patch in the middle. It is dull and doesn't sparkle. Sometimes on the very outer edge of the diamond I will catch a glint but never in the middle and other times especially in the morning sun and depending on what angle it looks icy blue, nice but it doesn't sparkle.

As researched more the more I learned that it is because of the very strong fluorescence. I asked my family their opinion not telling them about anything and all commented on how the diamond looks pretty but how come it doesn't sparkle like my sisters. They said it looks like it's plastic.

I am to bringing back the ring tomorrow to the wholesaler but I want to know if I am in a position to be able to and if I have the right to either get a refund or a different diamond all together. But I need advice to make sure what is wrong with the diamond and why it doesn't sparkle so I can prove my case.

About the hazy gray foggy patch in the middle ...
Unfortunately your GIA report is not the type that has a plot of the inclusions.
But the Clarity Characteristics listed are Crystal and Feather, in that order.

GIA lists inclusions in descending order of seriousness.
So perhaps the crystal is that hazy gray foggy patch in the middle and is more the source of your dissatisfaction than the fluorescence.
A very very few GIA VS2s are not eye-clean to the naked eye, especially to sharp young eagle-eyes.
You may want to pay an independent professional appraiser (who does not sell diamonds) for an opinion.
Do NOT consult another jeweler, who will have a conflict of interest.
I'd check here to see if a professional appraiser is listed near you. https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers

You wrote that the seller already told you that you can't return it, and perhaps can't even exchange it and showed you the report first before you authorized setting it so you hands may be tied.
Perhaps the appraiser could find some hole in all this you can use to get a refund/exchange.

Good luck.

 

[Ninadc]

Thank you all for your advice and guidance. I am located in Sydney Australia. The jeweller/wholesaler is a member of JAA, Jewellery Association of Australia. I can make a complaint if they don't change my diamond or give me a refund.

Not knowing much about diamond, when she showed us the Excellent Cut, polish and symmetry on GIA she made it sound that we were getting and Excellent ring.

They do not have rings in their office, they help you pick a diamond and for comparison she was showing us some of what others have ordered and what they have in the vault. But for so done like us, we really didn't know what we are looking for other than the basic four c's and wouldn't have a clueless any more specifics than that, like depth etc that contributes to a good cut.

My diamond is only a small one and if you can please recommend a few that will certainly give it the sparkle I am after that would be greatly appreciated. I can show her and maybe, hopefully she will allow us to change our diamond.

I also found that a legal, consumer info link which mentions misleading and deceptive conduct which I can discuss with her.

Thank you so much again. All of you really helped.

 

[Gypsy]

Ask them for an exchange.

Then give them this spec sheet:

depth - 60 - 62.4% -
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond -


Then run EACH stone they give you through the HCA (link provided in previous posts).

If you can go to Tiffany do so and find out what you color tolerance is. If you can't Stick to F or better since you have a D. As for clarity... VS2 is safe.

And finally for each stone they propose get the GIA lab report number and post it here for us. We will help you find a good stone.

 

[Gypsy]

Also Gary Holloway is in Australia. For 25 bucks you can buy an idealscope from him and learn to use it (very easy). That way you can make sure you get a great diamond with excellent light return.

Idealscope: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope

Gary Halloway http://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/

 

[kenny]

I'd just give your jeweler a link to the HCA.
Tell her to reject rounds that score over 2.0.

Better yet tell her to buy an Idealscope too.

Better yet, yet, when a well-cut diamond comes in have her compare it to yours side by side.

I guess we have to educate these folks.
Perhaps she would be interested in becoming known as the jeweler with a market niche for the most sparkly diamonds.

 

[Ninadc]

Kenny, first of all thank you for your knowledge and advice. Really appreciate it. Second, what a great idea. I will certainly do that! I am on my way to see the jeweller now, but just in case I called the JAA, which they are a member of and they are more than happy to assist me should the jeweller prove to be difficult. Also took another photo of the ring just now in midday sunlight.youll be able to see a cool blue thin sheath like over it, which makes it look hazy and cloudy almost. Thats why on top of what you all have said, adds to the no sparkle. It looks weird almost to a point I'm starting to think its unique and would be great dinner conversation/topic but without sunlight it's just white and glassy

 

[kenny]

You're welcome.

It's really hard to judge from pics but I do think I see a grey milky thing going on.
The blueish might be a reflection of the blue sky, though some may be the fluorescence.
Diamonds are little boxes of windows and mirrors reflecting their environment back to our eyes.
Think of photographing a mirror.

I sincerely hope this turns out well for you.
Buying a diamond can be such a minefield.
I wish all buyers found Pricescope first.

If you do manage a refund please let us help you find a diamond.
Many people in Australia buy from online US vendors and get super stones at great prices and even with the tax, duty, customs, or whatever they call it, they are happy with the prices, cut-evaluation tools, and especially the return and upgrade policies ... not to mention the abundance of superbly-cut rounds diamonds.

Surf over to www.whiteflash.com www.goodoldgold.com and www.jamesallen.com and see what you can get for your budget and how all the photographs and cut-tools help explain the cut quality of that individual diamond.
I don't get anything from them for the referral ... but I think I should.

 

[HappyNewLife]

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. I had a similar salesperson. She kept telling me how sparkly and amazing this diamond was, but when I ran the HCA, it was well over a 5... Ew. Thank goodness for PS!

Diamonds, in my inexperienced opinion, don't necessarily sparkle the best in the sun. How does it look in other lighting? My diamond looks dark in the sun, but it's a fireball everywhere else.

 

[Ninadc]

Hi HappyNewLife, my diamond in other lighting is very white and glassy. Probably why my mum thought it looked fake and plastic. On rare occasion it sparkles just around the girdle but certainly not a fireball. I went back to the jeweller and she said that it is because the diamond is dirty and she apologised profusely for the flaw in the setting being uneven and not aligned. I told her how upsetting it was and she sympathised. I asked again if after all of this I was still unhappy with the diamond, she finished my sentence and said come back and she will talk to her boss. It will be another two to three more weeks of waiting

 

[Ninadc]

If you can please provide feedback on this diamond that would be great. I hope I'm heading towards the right direction,

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4710526-0.75-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-SI2-clarity.aspx

Thank you in advance!

 

[Ninadc]

If you can please provide feedback on this diamond that would be great. I hope I'm heading towards the right direction,

1. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4710526-0.75-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-SI2-clarity.aspx

2. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6299409-0.73-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

3. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4710533-0.70-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx

This is from white flash with the AGS certification.

4. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3236245.htm

They are all in our budget, colour and clarity. Just not sure which would be the one that will give the best sparkle.

Thank you in advance!

 

[motownmama]

Pardon, but why does talking to her boss take 2-3 weeks vs 2-3 days? That's eating up the return window!!!

 

[arkieb1]

I think it could be the fluorescence making the diamond have a hazy dull sheen and this is could be why you got it for a bargain, if it was a bargain..... Does it look fine in normal lighting and inside but look a lot worse in the sunlight? I've seen two stones like that here in Australia, one at Diamonds International and another at a shop in the city.

I seriously doubt you went to a wholesaler. I know of one decent diamond wholesaler here in Brisbane and you have to be a RapNet member to access him, basically get approved to get through several security doors and buzzed in and he has draws of diamonds available that he sells wholesale to jewellers when they have a customer who wants something. It doesn't take him weeks to get things in. That is a lazy vendor getting a diamond off RapNet from someone from overseas - in which case they are a vendor (ie normal jeweller not a wholesaler).

Anyway by law you should be entitled to a full refund. They should offer to replace the stone for another you are happy with. If it is smucky due to the fluorescence then it would have been much cheaper for them to start with so it is possibly unlikely they will be able to find you a well cut stone with the same specs for the same price. You might have to go down in colour a tiny bit to get a better cut diamond for the same price.

If you do not wish to deal with them and want a full refund, use the words that when the diamond arrived it was "not as described" and if you paid by bank wire transfer or even better a plastic card of any type tell the jeweller you will take it up with your bank because the diamond was not "as described" and you are not happy with it at all and if they will not give you a replacement stone or a refund then the bank can seek a full refund on your behalf.

If you paid by cash then you need to both call and hassle the JAA here and complain about them (and tell them you will do so) and file a complaint with consumer affairs seeking a full refund.

I agree with the others run any new stones they get for you through the HCA tool and do NOT buy an EGL certified diamond.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Kenny, first of all thank you for your knowledge and advice. Really appreciate it. Second, what a great idea. I will certainly do that! I am on my way to see the jeweller now, but just in case I called the JAA, which they are a member of and they are more than happy to assist me should the jeweller prove to be difficult. Also took another photo of the ring just now in midday sunlight.youll be able to see a cool blue thin sheath like over it, which makes it look hazy and cloudy almost. Thats why on top of what you all have said, adds to the no sparkle. It looks weird almost to a point I'm starting to think its unique and would be great dinner conversation/topic but without sunlight it's just white and glassy

I would take this more seriously and not wait to get your refund, you should act now or you might lose your chance or options.

1) What is their return policy in writing? What is written on your receipt?
2) What method of payment did you use?
3) Are you aware the diamonds you are posting in this thread may not be available to them and if so their price will likely be higher.

I would start with going back and trying to return the ring for a full refund, if they fail to accept within 24 hours file a complaint with the JAA immediately. I wouldn't accept any stalling tactics, the "Boss" can be called or e-mailed.

 

[Tourmaline]

I would start with going back and trying to return the ring for a full refund, if they fail to accept within 24 hours file a complaint with the JAA immediately. I wouldn't accept any stalling tactics, the "Boss" can be called or e-mailed.

Agree!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Kenny, first of all thank you for your knowledge and advice. Really appreciate it. Second, what a great idea. I will certainly do that! I am on my way to see the jeweller now, but just in case I called the JAA, which they are a member of and they are more than happy to assist me should the jeweller prove to be difficult. Also took another photo of the ring just now in midday sunlight.youll be able to see a cool blue thin sheath like over it, which makes it look hazy and cloudy almost. Thats why on top of what you all have said, adds to the no sparkle. It looks weird almost to a point I'm starting to think its unique and would be great dinner conversation/topic but without sunlight it's just white and glassy

I would take this more seriously and not wait to get your refund, you should act now or you might lose your chance or options.

1) What is their return policy in writing? What is written on your receipt?
2) What method of payment did you use?
3) Are you aware the diamonds you are posting in this thread may not be available to them and if so their price will likely be higher.

I would start with going back and trying to return the ring for a full refund, if they fail to accept within 24 hours file a complaint with the JAA immediately. I wouldn't accept any stalling tactics, the "Boss" can be called or e-mailed.

Spot on advice.

No legitimate merchant (whether they call themselves a wholesaler or not) wants to stick a customer with a diamond they don't like. It's not right and it's just bad business. Fortunately, you have leverage and you will get helpful support from the knowlegeable people in this community who have no tolerance for unethical behavior.

 

[Gypsy]

Kenny, first of all thank you for your knowledge and advice. Really appreciate it. Second, what a great idea. I will certainly do that! I am on my way to see the jeweller now, but just in case I called the JAA, which they are a member of and they are more than happy to assist me should the jeweller prove to be difficult. Also took another photo of the ring just now in midday sunlight.youll be able to see a cool blue thin sheath like over it, which makes it look hazy and cloudy almost. Thats why on top of what you all have said, adds to the no sparkle. It looks weird almost to a point I'm starting to think its unique and would be great dinner conversation/topic but without sunlight it's just white and glassy

I would take this more seriously and not wait to get your refund, you should act now or you might lose your chance or options.

1) What is their return policy in writing? What is written on your receipt?
2) What method of payment did you use?
3) Are you aware the diamonds you are posting in this thread may not be available to them and if so their price will likely be higher.

I would start with going back and trying to return the ring for a full refund, if they fail to accept within 24 hours file a complaint with the JAA immediately. I wouldn't accept any stalling tactics, the "Boss" can be called or e-mailed.

Yup.

Agree. Do NOT let them stall you.

Just make it VERY clear it is unacceptable and if they have to call someone on the beach in the middle of their honeymoon, they should do so.
You want a resolution and you want it within 48 hours. PERIOD.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I think it could be the fluorescence making the diamond have a hazy dull sheen and this is could be why you got it for a bargain, if it was a bargain.....

Based upon the verbal descriptions of the OP and her family, and seeing the photo there is a high probability that the strong fluorescence is the cause of the problem. Many stones with strong fluoro will have this effect to a degree. In most cases it might not be obvious, and it may be perfectly acceptable. In fact there are many people here that like it alot when it does not negatively impact fire and brilliance.

However, this appears to be one of those stones that is obviously hazy. And the "wholesaler" would have likely known this upon seeing it. This is where my comment about ethics come in.