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Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose?

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Caity

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
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Hi there,

I am trying to decide between two cushion cut diamonds. One is the obvious choice, regarding it's size and clarity,however it's colour is H, which is bothering me. Please have a look at both diamonds and tell me which one you would go for. Please bare in mind the photographs are magnified, so any inclusions you see, will not be visible to the naked eye.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-h-color-if-clarity-sku-304156

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.84-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-68906

Thank you!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

An H color is still very white to me. I can even go down to an I in a very well cut stone.

If an IF clarity stone is your thing than go with it! Though, I would personally go bigger with that same budget and be looking at VS1-2 stones in that G-H color range.

Only you know where to draw the line, as it is only individual preference. My sweet spot happens to be a H colored stone in a VS1 or eye clean VS2. That is the best value for me while not sacrificing cut or performance whatsoever.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

I like the second diamond better, but only because I dont think the first one is very good. I'd rather have a larger size with the H colour, but it just doesnt look as nice. I'm sure if you post your budget someone will be able to take a look through and give you a nice option!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

I don't know what your budget is, but have you seen these?

http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/mark-t-cushion-diamonds/

If I was shopping for modern cushions these would be at the top of my consideration list.

If I was shopping for vintage style then I would run straight for GOG, and an AVC! *drool*

I own an H diamond. It is an AVR, so cut for ideal light return, and it faces up very, very white. I would not hesitate to go for an H in a well cut diamond. But an H is not a D...or else it would be graded as a D (stating the obvious-obviously ;)) ). I am also quite colour sensitive, and pretty adept at picking out subtle differences in tint, but to me the nuances are a beautiful part of a natural, earth-mined stone, not a liability. If you feel differently then you should go for whatever colour grade *feels* and looks right to you.

I don't think I would choose either of the stones you are putting forward- IF is overkill, and the inclusion on the table of the VS2 might not be "mind clean" for me even if it is eye clean. I don't know enough about cut and cushions to give specific breakdowns as to why, but neither of those do much of anything for me cut-wise.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

You need to get an aset on that first one. I'm now sure how good its going to preform. It looks like its only going to be so-so.

What is your budget?

edit - you can sacrifice color or size but dont sacrifice the cut...

Here is an H that looks like it has really nice light return. I dont know what your budget is though.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.90-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-36730
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions, I really appreciate it.

IF wasn't a requirement for me, I have quite a few specifications, and that stone just happened to be one that fit them all, that's not to say I wouldn't like an IF diamond. My specifications are as follows.

Measurements 5.30mm on each side minimum
Ratio - 1 - 1.05
VS2 and above
No Fluorescence
Tables and depth between 61% and 68% (I actually like tables on the large size on cushion cut)
Colour no lower than H, but ideally above
Budget £2500ish / $3999 ish max

These requirements limit the amount of options out there for me, but I don't really want to compromise on any of them.

I looked at brilliantly engaged, thanks for the link, and there are none that fit those specifications unfortunately, maybe I'm being to picky, but this is probably the only diamond I will ever have, so I want to be perfect for my taste.

Thanks everyone!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

tyty333|1412361482|3761506 said:
You need to get an aset on that first one. I'm now sure how good its going to preform. It looks like its only going to be so-so.

What is your budget?

edit - you can sacrifice color or size but dont sacrifice the cut...

Here is an H that looks like it has really nice light return. I dont know what your budget is though.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.90-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-36730
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the link, that is a beautiful diamond, but just not square enough for me, I'm very picky on the ratio! I appreciate the help though!

Also what is an aset?
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.90-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-36730 maybe not square enough, but its kind of neat.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.04-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-348873
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.72-carat-h-color-if-clarity-sku-186216 smaller
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.95-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-125608 large table

EDIT: Whoops didn't realize the first one was already posted. None of these exactly meet your specs, I'll see if I can find ones that are more closely tied to what you said.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

Out of these two I prefer the smaller diamond but I am not too crazy about either one. I am also very color sensitive and picky about color, that size cut should always come first because of light performance. I normally wear E or F stones but sometimes I can find really nice H but I would recommend that if you are color sensitive then stay above G, E-F are icey white and stand out but G and H can be fine if they are cut really well. I think sacrificing clarity is a good idea, VS and even eye clean SI can be really gorgeous stones. The smaller stone here had a very large crystal in the middle of the table and close to the surface here though so that could bother some. Have you looked at AVCs? Those are some gorgeous cushions. Yes budget is important here as they are more on the expensive side due to the superb cut but there are also stunning modern cut cushions. Keep searching for now that would be my suggestion. Wait for others to chime in and recommend vendors.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

An aset image helps you to determine how well the stone is returning light. Red is the brightest, green next then blue.
You want mostly red and green with a little bit of blue for contrast. You want to limit the whiteish or blackish areas
depending on the color of the background of the image.

James Allen and a few others have them. You can try requesting them and then posting them here to let us evaluate them.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

I checked JA and this is what they have that looks like it meets your specs...

Has something in the corner...ask if eye-clean (it is a VS1 though)
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-35795

This one may not be square enough for you but it looks pretty close
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-251055

Another nice one...a G
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-359188

This is one of my favorite faceting patterns in newer cushions. They are hard to find. This one looks like a pretty nice one.
Plus is an E/VS2. This would probably be my top choice but you may like other faceting patterns more.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.92-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-305297

This is another faceting pattern. This has a little too much contrast in it for me but I thought I would show you.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.00-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-348862

You can request up to 3 aset images to check on light return.
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to help find me suggestions, I will have a good look through them all now! What does everyone thing about this one?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.96-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-367568

Is it too shallow? Does it matter that the table is larger than the depth? Also what does everything think of cushion brilliant vs cushion modified brilliant? I like the idea that modified will have more of a twinkly sparkle rather than flashes of light, but having said that I have never compared them in person!

I have seen this one too.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.80-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-36186

Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it, so glad I stumbled upon this website!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

Hi Caity,

First of all, congrats on starting this fun-filled adventure, and thanks for sharing it with us. Educating yourself can be a blast but can also be a bit mind-numbing with its complexity and nuance. There are a lot of things to learn and a lot of opinions floating around.

Your budget isn't bad at all, but as has been said, something has to give. I like to think of the 4 C's like sliders on a sound board. Dial up and dial down. Each affects price and performance, and everything is a compromise.

What matters most is what's important to you. Some people use the phrase "color sensitive." It means something a bit different around here. Most people can detect a color difference between a D and a G, even mounted and face up. It's just the nature of the beast. As we say, if a G looked like a D, it would be a D. So be wary of some vendors or sales folk who say things like, "This H is beautiful and faces up very white; it'll look colorless when it's set." Well, maybe, but maybe not. What is worth considering is if color matters to you. If you think it'll bother you when you first see it, it'll probably keep doing so! Most people can see a difference in color. The question is whether it bothers you or not!

Cut matters most. Remember that an uncut (or rough) diamond is just a lifeless hunk of carbon. It might be mistaken for quartz. Diamonds don't create their own light; they only reflect it. So any brightness or fiery effect you get is simply the internal manipulation of light that enters and re-exits the stone. A well cut diamond will appear less tinted than a poorly cut one. In fact, you might even look at a superbly cut G next to a poorly cut D and prefer the G, for all of the right reasons.

Some folks mentioned ASET images. An ASET is an Angular Spectrum Evaluation Tool, which is a fancy way of saying it's a little reflector instrument that separates how light enters a stone, and from where, and breaks it down into colors for each discrete portions of angles. It lets you know from where your diamond is gathering light, or if it's losing light ("leakage").

Here is one of my favorite education pages for how to use and read an ASET, courtesy of Wink Jones at High Performance Diamonds: http://highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

So, back to the 4 C's. Cut is one where I wouldn't compromise much at all. It'll do more to affect the beauty of the stone than anything else. Don't fall for the trap of "bigger is always better!" A bigger stone that's cut poorly is simply more of less. If anything, its flaws are more obvious the bigger it gets.

Most here are comfortable with VS2 or SI1. Personally I don't like to go below VS2, but there are some lovely SI1s out there that are eye clean and real sparklers. For many it's a "mind clean" issue, which is actually an important consideration.

Color seems to be important to you, and that's neither a good or a bad thing. It's all preference. Some don't mind a little tint, and some actually prefer it. Some buyers don't like the "icy, cold white" of a colorless stone and prefer the warmth of a lower one. Remember that a diamond's color grading is down in a lab, under controlled settings, when it's face down and unmounted. When a well cut stone is face up, its light return can reflect more brightness and make a little tint less obvious.

In my opinion, size is generally only worth increasing after you've set your preferences for the first three C's. Don't compromise on cut. Decide the lowest color you'd like to go, and then the lowest clarity. Then there's only one variable left to affect your budget. Many would then start sliding that "carat" slider up and get the biggest one can afford.

Ideal-Scopes images (similar in concept to an ASET) also help. Magnified images help. Your eyes make the final decision. If you commit to one, make sure it has a good return policy. And then look at it from a lot of angles, distances, and lighting. Look at it indoors and outdoors, under incandescent, fluorescent, and LEDs. Get an idea for its real world performance, which a reflector image can guess but can't tell you for certain.

Check out the education sections here and on reputable vendors' sites. There's a lot of knowledge to be had and it's worth due consideration. It's a big purchase and we're here when you've further questions.

Hope that helps! :wavey:
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

tyty333|1412375355|3761683 said:
I checked JA and this is what they have that looks like it meets your specs...

Has something in the corner...ask if eye-clean (it is a VS1 though)
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-35795

This one may not be square enough for you but it looks pretty close
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-251055

Another nice one...a G
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-359188

This is one of my favorite faceting patterns in newer cushions. They are hard to find. This one looks like a pretty nice one.
Plus is an E/VS2. This would probably be my top choice but you may like other faceting patterns more.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.92-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-305297

This is another faceting pattern. This has a little too much contrast in it for me but I thought I would show you.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.00-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-348862

You can request up to 3 aset images to check on light return.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your help and suggestions, I really like your top choice and have asked for an ASET report on it! I know nothing about facets, could you please give me an idea on what facet pattern means for the appearance / sparkle of a diamond?
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

SirGuy|1412428296|3761941 said:
Hi Caity,

First of all, congrats on starting this fun-filled adventure, and thanks for sharing it with us. Educating yourself can be a blast but can also be a bit mind-numbing with its complexity and nuance. There are a lot of things to learn and a lot of opinions floating around.

Your budget isn't bad at all, but as has been said, something has to give. I like to think of the 4 C's like sliders on a sound board. Dial up and dial down. Each affects price and performance, and everything is a compromise.

What matters most is what's important to you. Some people use the phrase "color sensitive." It means something a bit different around here. Most people can detect a color difference between a D and a G, even mounted and face up. It's just the nature of the beast. As we say, if a G looked like a D, it would be a D. So be wary of some vendors or sales folk who say things like, "This H is beautiful and faces up very white; it'll look colorless when it's set." Well, maybe, but maybe not. What is worth considering is if color matters to you. If you think it'll bother you when you first see it, it'll probably keep doing so! Most people can see a difference in color. The question is whether it bothers you or not!

Cut matters most. Remember that an uncut (or rough) diamond is just a lifeless hunk of carbon. It might be mistaken for quartz. Diamonds don't create their own light; they only reflect it. So any brightness or fiery effect you get is simply the internal manipulation of light that enters and re-exits the stone. A well cut diamond will appear less tinted than a poorly cut one. In fact, you might even look at a superbly cut G next to a poorly cut D and prefer the G, for all of the right reasons.

Some folks mentioned ASET images. An ASET is an Angular Spectrum Evaluation Tool, which is a fancy way of saying it's a little reflector instrument that separates how light enters a stone, and from where, and breaks it down into colors for each discrete portions of angles. It lets you know from where your diamond is gathering light, or if it's losing light ("leakage").

Here is one of my favorite education pages for how to use and read an ASET, courtesy of Wink Jones at High Performance Diamonds: http://highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

So, back to the 4 C's. Cut is one where I wouldn't compromise much at all. It'll do more to affect the beauty of the stone than anything else. Don't fall for the trap of "bigger is always better!" A bigger stone that's cut poorly is simply more of less. If anything, its flaws are more obvious the bigger it gets.

Most here are comfortable with VS2 or SI1. Personally I don't like to go below VS2, but there are some lovely SI1s out there that are eye clean and real sparklers. For many it's a "mind clean" issue, which is actually an important consideration.

Color seems to be important to you, and that's neither a good or a bad thing. It's all preference. Some don't mind a little tint, and some actually prefer it. Some buyers don't like the "icy, cold white" of a colorless stone and prefer the warmth of a lower one. Remember that a diamond's color grading is down in a lab, under controlled settings, when it's face down and unmounted. When a well cut stone is face up, its light return can reflect more brightness and make a little tint less obvious.

In my opinion, size is generally only worth increasing after you've set your preferences for the first three C's. Don't compromise on cut. Decide the lowest color you'd like to go, and then the lowest clarity. Then there's only one variable left to affect your budget. Many would then start sliding that "carat" slider up and get the biggest one can afford.

Ideal-Scopes images (similar in concept to an ASET) also help. Magnified images help. Your eyes make the final decision. If you commit to one, make sure it has a good return policy. And then look at it from a lot of angles, distances, and lighting. Look at it indoors and outdoors, under incandescent, fluorescent, and LEDs. Get an idea for its real world performance, which a reflector image can guess but can't tell you for certain.

Check out the education sections here and on reputable vendors' sites. There's a lot of knowledge to be had and it's worth due consideration. It's a big purchase and we're here when you've further questions.

Hope that helps! :wavey:
Click to expand...

Wow! Sirguy thanks for this, it is really helpful! I need all the help I can get, it's such a big decision. You're right about the mind numbingness! I'm finding it difficult to sleep, because my brain is whirring with so much diamond information! It will all be worth it in the end though! I agree with you in that I will not go below VS2, regardless of how beautiful the diamond is. I think you've helped me decide as well that really I don't want to go below an F if I can help it because I am slightly OCD with these things, and I think if I knew my diamond was G onwards, I would probably see colour in it, even if there wasn't any. I agree with you that cut is most important, but it's so difficult to know what's ideal for a cushion cut.

http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/diamond-education/cushion-cut-diamond

I have been going off the above link, and because I like the appearance of larger tables on cushions, I have been leaning more towards the stones that have tables of 63% upwards. I am worried that I could be wrong with this though, and that a smaller table would be a better choice. Does anyone think a larger table size could be detrimental to the diamond, baring in mind it is a cushion and not a round?

Thanks again!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

The crown of a diamond can add great beauty to a well cut stone, and you lose that with a large table. My diamond is an example although it is round. I absolutely would not limit your search to large tables. I think the best cut ones probably will not have the largest tables. I know they don't have one that works for you, but these are very nicely cut cushions and they have small tables:

http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/mark-t-cushion-diamonds/

This was already posted and I think it is a better cut stone than any of the JA stones that you posted. It has a table of 58:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12298/

Brian Gavin cuts another style modern cushion, and you can see the table around 56:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.738-h-si1-cushion-diamond-ags-104069728002

I'd recommend spending some time looking through these three vendors' cushions to get an idea of what well cut cushions look like before proceeding. A vendor like JA carries all qualities of stones rather than specializing in well cut ones like the vendors above, and really, you have to find the needle in a haystack when you are dealing with a diamond supplier instead of a specialty jeweler.

In addition, GOG has hundreds of videos on YouTube. Here is a general one on cushion cuts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM&feature=youtu.be
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

Thanks Jeremy, Evangeline and Diamondseeker2006 for your Good Old Gold diamond suggestion, I actually really like it and have added to it my consideration list!

Also thanks to tyty333 for giving me advice on ASET reports, I have now contacted James Allen and asked them to do ASET reports on three of the diamonds I have been looking at, if they come back as poor I will dismiss all of them, as the brilliance and fire are THE most important thing, you've got to see the sparkle! I also liked your top pick E, VS2 so have requested an ASET on that one.

Diamondseeker2006 thank you for your link to the Good Old Gold video, I found it really helpful and it has actually made me want to purchase a diamond from them, so I have now begun discussions with David there. I am just slightly worried about costs, as I actually live in the UK, which means I will have to pay 20% duties / tax plus postage etc but I just can't seem to find any reasonably priced diamond sellers in England!

Thanks everyone!
 
Re: Sacrifice colour or size, which diamond would you choose

tyty333|1412374739|3761676 said:
An aset image helps you to determine how well the stone is returning light. Red is the brightest, green next then blue.
You want mostly red and green with a little bit of blue for contrast. You want to limit the whiteish or blackish areas
depending on the color of the background of the image.

James Allen and a few others have them. You can try requesting them and then posting them here to let us evaluate them.
Click to expand...

Hi everyone,

I've just received the ASETs back from James Allen. Two obviously leaked too much light so I won't bother showing them to you, however I like the look of this one. Could you please evaluate it for me and tell me if you think it looks like a good choice? I will post a link to the ASET image and a link to the actual diamond.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8e561gsr91720y/305297.jpg?dl=0

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.92-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-305297

Thank you!
 
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