Restaurants rounding your change to the nearest dollar

[Porridge]

ETA - creative programmers have gone to the clink for less...as in, rounding less than a penny off bank transactions and funneling them to personal accounts. But hey, it's less than one cent right?

Stealing is stealing.

Office Space!

 

[ksinger]

Yeah, well Office Space stole that from real life...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing

I'm not sure exactly, how the restaurant scenario is all that different...except they brazenly do it to your face.

 

[Upgradable]

Life is short. I've got lots of other things that stress me out.

 

[JewelFreak]

However good the food may be, don't think I would go back -- and I'd let them know why, in a letter to the owner, not the manager. It's possible the owner doesn't know this is his policy, lol. MC's right, if they round up, they should also round down.

Posting it on the menu isn't good enough. You've waited to be seated, received your menu & are browsing it, you see the notice & after spending all that time, you're not going to get up & leave. It should be posted at the entrance with those little credit card thingies they have -- you can decide then whether you want them to keep your money as a matter of policy.

 

[ksinger]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

 

[JewelFreak]

My grocery store doesn't round up to the nearest buck. Does yours?

 

[stephbolt]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

 

[ksinger]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

 

[Laila619]

Agree with Ksinger. I'll happily write off the change *if* it's my choice to do so...in the grand scheme of things it's not a lot of money or a big deal. But they don't have the right to make the choice for me.

ETA: of course there are bigger things to worry about in life, but that's basically true of anything. We shouldn't be on a diamond message board worrying/analyzing/talking about rings then.

 

[Enerchi]

not cool...SO not cool...

Your bill was $XX.43. You paid in cash - you are expecting the $XX.57 cents back. That is YOUR decision to tip/leave however much you want, not THEIRS. I'd be annoyed as well, and I'd probably speak to one person about it, but I don't think I'd have the courage to make a scene about it. I would, however, go away and talk the HEL$ out of it to anyone who would listen!

I once read that it takes 20 times to be exposed to good press before you pay attention but only once and you take the bad press as 'gospel' (or something to that effect....)

It may be worth chatting it up to other friends/coworkers who dine there and get their take on it. Maybe with enough influence, it could change???

I do like the advice that there are other bigger things in the world to worry about. True. Maybe this should just be overlooked, in the grand scheme of things...??? (oh, but not me... a bee in my bonnet like this would drive me nuts!)

 

[kenny]

I never said they only round up.
For the uptheeth time, they round up or down to the nearest dollar on cash payments only.

Examples:

If the bill is $14.03, they charge: $14.00

If the bill is $14.49, they charge: $14.00

If the bill is $14.50, they charge: $15.00

If the bill is $14.51, they charge: $15.00

If the bill is $14.99, they charge: $15.00

 

[swingirl]

Sounds like they don't want change in their cash drawer.

 

[ksinger]

I never said they only round up.
For the uptheeth time, they round up or down to the nearest dollar on cash payments only.

Examples:

If the bill is $14.03, they charge: $14.00

If the bill is $14.49, they charge: $14.00

If the bill is $14.50, they charge: $15.00

If the bill is $14.51, they charge: $15.00

If the bill is $14.99, they charge: $15.00

Doesn't matter. Besides, you really only have their word for that, and how good is the word of a business that will take more money than they're owed simply in the name of "convenience"? THEY decide to GIVE me some of THEIR money - I don't care - if they want to throw money at me or someone else, they can go ahead - it is theirs to do with what they will. But when they decide to balance that out by taking money FROM me (or someone else heaven forbid) I DO care. Only I get to decide if I want to throw money at THEM.

I don't care whether it all evens out in some great cosmic scheme. I simply expect all businesses to deal in an up-front manner and in defined dollars and cents with me.

 

[missy]

This just seems wrong to me on so many levels - enough so that I would actually tend not to patronize these establishments. And if the policy is not clearly posted on the menu and also repeated on the bill presented to customers, then I would likely insist on receiving full change. (If I was with someone who would not be comfortable with my stance, I would let them know they should wait for me outside.)

Yes, on principle I would not let this go. It's a lot of nerve IMO. It is your money not theirs and your right to spend it as you please. I cannot believe that after you spoke with the manager about this he just repeated the policy and did not offer to give you the correct change. I might *need* to talk with the owner of the restaurant in that case. It is truly *not* about the money here but what is the right thing to do.

And if I really loved the food and the atmosphere so much that I just had to go to this restaurant again I would just pay with a CC as thing suggested. But I am not sure I would want to go to this restaurant again. There are plenty of great places I can spend my money where I am not cheated. Nope don't think I would go again.

 

[missy]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Yes, 100%!! Stealing is stealing and it is wrong. Plain and simple. I also cannot believe that not everyone thinks this is unethical.

 

[ame]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Yes, 100%!! Stealing is stealing and it is wrong. Plain and simple. I also cannot believe that not everyone thinks this is unethical.

I absolutely agree that it is stealing.

 

[stephbolt]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Yes, 100%!! Stealing is stealing and it is wrong. Plain and simple. I also cannot believe that not everyone thinks this is unethical.

The situation kenny brought up is pretty extreme and I've never heard of a restaurant flat out refusing to deal in coin, and I have some problem with that. But the point I was trying to make is that in my experience, servers don't do this to pad their own pockets or cheat your or to steal money, but in order to get patrons' bills settled up more quickly and get them happily out the door. No customer likes sitting around for 15 or 20 minutes after they've paid the bill. I tended to almost always error on the side of giving too much change but sometimes went in the other direction. No one ever accused me of trying to rob them.

Yes, there are bad and unethical people in the world, but not everyone is trying to cheat you.

 

[KatyWI]

I've never seen this around here, but the policy wouldn't keep me away from an otherwise good restaurant/establishment. As a server if I didn't have enough coin change, I'd always offer a little extra back to the customer (the whole dollar), and I don't remember a time that they didn't tell me to keep the difference instead. Now that I work a 9-5, I'm the type of person that would be leaving the change regardless, and if it were an advertised policy, it is what it is.

But then again, I am an unabashed overtipper, as I worked in the service industry for a good many years. It would take a lot more than 50 cents to keep me away from good food!

 

[Haven]

This would bother me. If they don't want to deal with change, they need to charge in whole dollar amounts only, or always round down.

We frequent a couple locally owned places where they always guesstimate charges. Sometimes, our regular order is $24, sometimes it's $22, that sort of thing. But the total is ALWAYS lower than the stated prices on the menu, and they always throw in extras like a soda or a side. Our favorite place is owned by this young Italian guy who says things like "Okay, tonight, for you? Gimme $21. And grab some sodas on your way out." We thought it was strange at first, but it happens so often around here we're used to it.

 

[iheartscience]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Really? Stealing? Legally? I find that a bit hard to believe. I'm no legal guru but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to charge a waiter or restaurant with theft for this practice.

Also, I may have missed this, but kenny-did you ask for your change back? Or did you just question why it wasn't given to you?

 

[artdecogirl]

I frequent some local thrift stores run by a nonprofit in my area, they use the profits from the thrift stores to fund local community projects like the food shelves and energy assistance programs and they do a round up program. Whenever you make a purchase, cash check or card they ask if you want to round up for the local food shelf. After reading this I had to go to the website to see if I could find the dollar amount they have made since they started this a few years ago and I could not but they do have displays in the stores that show numbers and last time I looked it was a pretty significant amount. That is only rounding up though. I would think if they rounded up and down it would come out pretty even but I would want to know the policy before I ordered, seems the practice itself would be more trouble then dealing with the change judging by the reaction here.

 

[kenny]

Also, I may have missed this, but kenny-did you ask for your change back? Or did you just question why it wasn't given to you?

I did tell the waiter he forgot my change, and I only got the paper money.
That's when he told me the restaurant's policy.
Then on the way out I asked the manager and he repeated the policy.

Good, bad, right, or wrong, I just left it at that but I did express my shock and told the manager, with the waiter standing next to him, I had never heard of this before.
I didn't make a scene, demand my money, or say they lost me as a customer but they DID get the message I didn't like it.
Their tone of voice and body language was very confident and they said something like, we've done this for years and other customers accept it, or something.

I did not stiff the waiter and left the usual tip.
The service was good; everything was good, except this weird policy.
I thought maybe I was out of touch and many restaurants were going this way.
I'm glad to hear they are not.

 

[luv2sparkle]

That would definitely bug me. I don't think they have a right to charge you more than your bill, but if they want to charge you less, that is their 'right'. All I can say, is that I would never go to that restaurant with cash again. Debit cards from now on.

We did go to a fancy pizza place in town once and picked up pizza and they charged us a tip on our card. We called and complained. Literally all they did was hand us the pizza boxes over the counter. They removed the charge a couple of days later. Now, I only take cash there, as we were told it was their standard practice. 20% when they didn't even pour me a drink. Seriously. Sheesh.


I would probably go on yelp and post a review about it.

 

[jewelerman]

I'm of the opinion that its stealing and when i pay with cash i would expect exact change back unless i choose otherwise.

 

[kenny]

If it is stealing then it is stealing only half the time.
The other half, it's giving.

I'm not defending the policy.
I don't like it.
But it is not 100% stealing; it's more like 50% stealing and 50% giving, a wash perhaps but I still don't like it.

It's not the money; it's the idea.
I do not want to overpay OR underpay and some customers may dine there only once so their purchases will not average out.
Money is a special and sensitive thing and I expect transactions to be accurate.

 

[ksinger]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Really? Stealing? Legally? I find that a bit hard to believe. I'm no legal guru but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to charge a waiter or restaurant with theft for this practice.

Also, I may have missed this, but kenny-did you ask for your change back? Or did you just question why it wasn't given to you?

Yes. Stealing. Really. Legally. Maybe you WOULD have trouble finding a prosecutor who will prosecute for 47 cents, but a prosecutor's unwillingness doesn't define "legal", or God knows, ethical.

I'm not a legal guru either, but I think this definition (courtesy the evil Wikipedia) of theft, is pretty clear in spite of the legalese.

"The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use."

A tempest in a teapot certainly, but just because a restaurant ASSUMES they are entitled to deny me my change don't make it so. Just like banks make a killing nickle and diming us to death with this little fee here and that little fee there, this restaurant could rack up some considerable change in the course of a year by doing that...and it's even better when they manage to convince the patron that this is "for their own good".

 

[Imdanny]

I've never heard of that.

I'd round my tip to $0.00 and never go back.

 

[Laila619]

If it is stealing then it is stealing only half the time.
The other half, it's giving.

What if I only go there once, and they rounded down on me? It's stealing.

 

[iheartscience]

Maybe so. But what makes a restaurant different from the grocery store? Seriously....why is it somehow different?

I'd be curious in the situation kenny is referencing, if this restuarant truly rounds up/down the charges on their records, or they just round when dealing with cash payments from customers. Most restaurants are using an electronic point-of-service system, so I'm guessing they are rounding it just when dealing with the payments.

The difference is that if they are just rounding when dealing with cash payments, they are doing it by using the assumed tip as a cushion to do this rounding. So although you might be pissed to not get your $0.43 back, unless you are eating someplace very cheap you should be leaving more than that for the tip, and you can factor the change you didn't get back into the total tip you leave. Because tipping is part of the standard of service in American restaurants, it's different than if the grocery or hardware store shortchanged you. I see how it's still annoying, but in my mind I don't equate it with stealing for this reason.

But it is still stealing. And I suspect it would be in the eyes of the ethicist and the legal system. Petty theft it's true, but theft nonetheless.

As for tipping, tipping is done for good or excellent service, not because the server is breathing and at work. And NOT when he unilaterally decides to short me. I'm a chronic over-tipper for what I consider good service, but if you ASSUME you may take one thin dime of mine, well, I hope it was worth it, because your tip will be nonexistent and I won't be back.

I'm honestly amazed this discussion is even happening. I mean throw away your money any way you like, but to think this is anything but stealing is just astonishing to me. Maybe it's just because I was taught to be SO exacting with money, especially other people's money. I could never take money not owed to me, regardless of the unethical practice of my employer. My hand would burst into flame and I'd go straight to Hell...

Really? Stealing? Legally? I find that a bit hard to believe. I'm no legal guru but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to charge a waiter or restaurant with theft for this practice.

Also, I may have missed this, but kenny-did you ask for your change back? Or did you just question why it wasn't given to you?

Yes. Stealing. Really. Legally. Maybe you WOULD have trouble finding a prosecutor who will prosecute for 47 cents, but a prosecutor's unwillingness doesn't define "legal", or God knows, ethical.

I'm not a legal guru either, but I think this definition (courtesy the evil Wikipedia) of theft, is pretty clear in spite of the legalese.

"The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use."

A tempest in a teapot certainly, but just because a restaurant ASSUMES they are entitled to deny me my change don't make it so. Just like banks make a killing nickle and diming us to death with this little fee here and that little fee there, this restaurant could rack up some considerable change in the course of a year by doing that...and it's even better when they manage to convince the patron that this is "for their own good".

kenny didn't ask for his change, so the restaurant didn't refuse to give it to him. He inquired about the policy and stated his displeasure with it. So I don't believe it can be proven that the restaurant intended to permanently deprive the owner (kenny) of the money. We'll never know, but if kenny had actually said he wanted his change back, perhaps the restaurant would have complied.

The restaurant's practice really isn't unheard of, as people who have been servers previously have attested to, so I really don't believe it is considered a crime. If it was, I highly doubt multiple servers and restaurants would do the same thing.

 

[VRBeauty]

I probably wouldn't mind if the tab was $50.00 or more, would mind if it was less than that. One restaurant I frequent doesn't deal with pennies, though it seems like they always round the change in my favor.

MZ brings up a good point though... it will cost the restaurant more if their customers get irked and switch to credit card because of this policy.