Restaurants canceling workers' shifts at the last minute

[CJ2008]

I didn't know that restaurants like McDonald's could change and cancel shifts on their workers at the last minute.

(I wonder if it's like this in retail too?)

Pretty much conveys to a person "you're nothing."

Total disrespect of their time and their life - maybe even their very essence as a person. :/

Glad NY is doing something about it.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/not-...ers-seek-ban-surprise-100505711--finance.html

 

[jordyonbass]

There's laws against that here in Australia, shifts can't be cancelled on the day without the staff members consent.

 

[KaeKae]

My very first job out of college, they would do this. The first and only time they asked me, I asked, "what do you mean leave two hours early?" After the director explained that attendance was low that day, I then asked, "How will I pay my rent if I'm not working the 40 hours a week I agreed to?"

This was a child care center you all have probably heard of or passed on the road. The parents paid weekly, so the incoming tuition might have differed from one week to the next, but not different every day. Corporate kept close tabs on that attendance and expected her to simply shuffle the students around/combine age groups in order to save money on payroll.

She needed my state certification for licensing and must have feared I would look for another job, she never asked me again. I was probably lucky she didn't just cut my hours permanently, then ask me to work more when she needed it. Or fire me. Though it was an awful job, that might have been a favor. I lasted a year.

 

[sonnyjane]

From my experiences in both the restaurant industry and in retail, we would all show up, and then if things were slow, the manager would ask if anyone wanted to go home. I'm not exaggerating - there was never, that I recall, a time nobody wanted a spur-of-the-moment night off, and in truth, many nights there would be a little bit of a fight over who would get to go. We all needed the money, but sometimes when you're dealing with grumpy people all day, you would rather have the time off. I do think it's bad practice not to give the employee the choice.

 

[Karl_K]

It depends on the state.
I would say that most states they can cancel at anytime.
Some states once your on the clock they have to pay you for 4 hours if they send you home with less if you were scheduled for 4 or more hours.
Some states if they send you home after 4 hours and you were scheduled for 8 they have to pay you for all 8.
But many also have exceptions in those rules for retail and restaurants.
There are also usually exceptions for getting sent home with cause or "acts of God".

 

[Arkteia]

I consider myself a good employer - we as the business have one full-time employee and one part-timer. The part-timer is hired by me for evening hours. If I travel (which happens often), I do pay my employee's hours - it is not her fault that I have constant family emergencies. But one thing to consider, not only do we pay salary, we pay L&I, and perhaps by letting people go if business is slow, the employers cut on paying L&I taxes, because these taxes are dependent on the number or hours your employees worked? (I, by covering my employee's hours when I am not here, actually end up overpaying L@I taxes). Bottom line is, if you hire legally, there are many expenses that one never thinks of unless you are an employer. So I understand the logic of the restaurant owners. However, it is unfair of the people who earn little to start with. At least waiters can make much in tips on a good day, but what about McDonald's employees?

In Seattle, this is not a problem though. It is the second city in the country approve worker-scheduling law.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/seattle-council-approves-worker-scheduling-law/

 

[Rhea]

When I was in my early 20s and in college I worked at American Eagle at the local mall. They loved scheduling us for "on call" shifts. These were shifts for which we had to call in an hour before hand to see if they needed us or not which depended on how busy they were that day. By booking on call shifts they had employees on demand, who they didn't have to pay unless they actually came in, but the employee had to be ready and available.

I went to university close enough to my parent's home that I regularly went home for the weekend. But it was a long enough drive that if I were booked for on call on Saturday then I couldn't go home. It was really terrible. You're not sure if you'll have money because you don't know if you're working. You couldn't take other jobs or paid work just in case. You couldn't make plans with friends.

The US has some really terrible employment laws which thoroughly take advantage of workers, especially lower paid workers.

 

[missy]

Unfortunately this happens in many different fields and not just one or 2 industries.

I am an independent consultant in healthcare and work in an FQHC. A new corporation took over last year and cut the clinicians hours but just when it suits the corporation. So on slower days I might work 4 hours and the next 8 hours and it goes against the spirit of how the clinicians were initially hired which was for a full day for most of us. They expect us to keep our day open for them as they need us. For now most of us are biding our time but personally I am leaning towards retiring and when the situation stops being convenient for me (as right now it works out for me just fine) is the day I will decide I am done here. I feel (and don't know for sure) that this might be illegal and I also don't feel we meet the strict definition of independent contractor. But I could be completely wrong and since I prefer being paid as an independent contractor I am OK with it for now.

 

[monarch64]

Yup, "flex shifts" is what they were called when I worked PT for a big box interior decor store a few summers ago. I just wanted a little part time job for the discount and some pocket money, but the entire job was total b.s. Very low pay (just above minimum wage) and the expectations were absolutely ridiculous. Not only that, but there were hazards to employees and customers all over the place, and the quotas one was required to meet were damn near impossible. After a few weeks of feeling like I was just there to risk my health and sell their credit card, I quit, and am not one bit sorry I did not give notice. Prior to that "job" I had been in retail management for years so I knew what was right and wrong, and the only reason that store has continued to survive in this town for 35+ years is that it's close to IU campus and poor college students don't know any better than to put up with those conditions. Pity, because that store imports ALL their product for nothing and sells it for exhorbitant price points.

 

[CJ2008]

There's laws against that here in Australia, shifts can't be cancelled on the day without the staff members consent.

That sounds about right to me @jordyonbass

How are you, by the way? Are you still at that new (but by now old! ) job? Sill liking it?

And what about that kitten you had? How is he?

(I don't check in all the time as you can see :/) Feel free to ignore the questions if you don't feel like giving an update.

 

[CJ2008]

My very first job out of college, they would do this. The first and only time they asked me, I asked, "what do you mean leave two hours early?" After the director explained that attendance was low that day, I then asked, "How will I pay my rent if I'm not working the 40 hours a week I agreed to?"

This was a child care center you all have probably heard of or passed on the road. The parents paid weekly, so the incoming tuition might have differed from one week to the next, but not different every day. Corporate kept close tabs on that attendance and expected her to simply shuffle the students around/combine age groups in order to save money on payroll.

She needed my state certification for licensing and must have feared I would look for another job, she never asked me again. I was probably lucky she didn't just cut my hours permanently, then ask me to work more when she needed it. Or fire me. Though it was an awful job, that might have been a favor. I lasted a year.

Sometimes just asking the question is all you need to make someone think twice. Your question obviously made her think twice. Good.

 

[CJ2008]

From my experiences in both the restaurant industry and in retail, we would all show up, and then if things were slow, the manager would ask if anyone wanted to go home. I'm not exaggerating - there was never, that I recall, a time nobody wanted a spur-of-the-moment night off, and in truth, many nights there would be a little bit of a fight over who would get to go. We all needed the money, but sometimes when you're dealing with grumpy people all day, you would rather have the time off. I do think it's bad practice not to give the employee the choice.

Right. And that's just it. If someone WANTS to go home, even though they need the money, then it's a win-win for both parties.

And remember, there are different levels of "need."

I know I've never felt like I didn't "need" money. I always needed money. But in the back of my mind, for many years at least, I knew my parents had my back if I ever needed it. I knew I wouldn't end up on the streets even if I had no money.

That's not the case with everyone. And it's for those people especially I think anything other than giving the employees a choice is bad practice. For some people it might create a real hardship.

And on lesser level, you are affecting someone's quality of life if they can't plan, don't know when they'll be off, etc. Equally important I think, even if it's not a hardship per se.

 

[CJ2008]

It depends on the state.
I would say that most states they can cancel at anytime.
Some states once your on the clock they have to pay you for 4 hours if they send you home with less if you were scheduled for 4 or more hours.
Some states if they send you home after 4 hours and you were scheduled for 8 they have to pay you for all 8.
But many also have exceptions in those rules for retail and restaurants.
There are also usually exceptions for getting sent home with cause or "acts of God".

Interesting.

Sounds like restaurants and retail are two industries to stay away from (at least from my perspective of what would be considered a decent job and what would bother me to no end.)

 

[CJ2008]

I consider myself a good employer - we as the business have one full-time employee and one part-timer. The part-timer is hired by me for evening hours. If I travel (which happens often), I do pay my employee's hours - it is not her fault that I have constant family emergencies. But one thing to consider, not only do we pay salary, we pay L&I, and perhaps by letting people go if business is slow, the employers cut on paying L&I taxes, because these taxes are dependent on the number or hours your employees worked? (I, by covering my employee's hours when I am not here, actually end up overpaying L@I taxes). Bottom line is, if you hire legally, there are many expenses that one never thinks of unless you are an employer. So I understand the logic of the restaurant owners. However, it is unfair of the people who earn little to start with. At least waiters can make much in tips on a good day, but what about McDonald's employees?

In Seattle, this is not a problem though. It is the second city in the country approve worker-scheduling law.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/seattle-council-approves-worker-scheduling-law/

Trust me, Arkteia, I *do* understand that businesses have expenses that employees don't always realize and many times don't even appreciate.

I do also understand that whenever possible the best possible way is a way that is balanced and fair for both sides.

I think it's extremely nice - and fair - that when you need to go away unexpectedly you still pay for their hours. Couldn't you actually find things for them to do? Leave them with tasks? And isn't there any way around this issue that would put the $ in their pocket but not cost you the L&I taxes? (e.g., a monthly bonus equaling the hours missed?) I'm sure you've looked into all these things but just wondering aloud.

My point is I am not opposed to trying to find ways for both employers and employees address what is important to them so it's not all one-sided.

And my thing with this being relevant to how much you make is that nothing is in a vacuum although I do understand your point that someone making very little money is already probably living very tight and the chances of causing them a hardship are probably and more often higher than someone that's making a higher salary.

But think about this...

If I make $1,000 per month but live at home and my parents feed me that is different than a person who makes $1000 per month and depends on that money to feed their baby and pay their rent.

And if I make $5,000 per month maybe I have car payments and a mortgage. Things that I can pay when I am making the expected income but not if my hours get cut. Maybe I have elderly parents I take care of too. So I make more but I have more things I need to pay monthly.

So the amount of money doesn't really address the fairness of cutting someone's hours which is in essence affecting their pay. Plus all the other things I mention about affecting their quality of life, even if it doesn't hurt them financially.

 

[CJ2008]

Gotta run I'll be back later to answer the rest.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

In healthcare (I am an ICU RN) this happens all the time-- I used to get calls for 2 out of 3 shifts for the week in the ICU telling me census is too low and we are not needed for our shifts.

 

[jordyonbass]

That sounds about right to me @jordyonbass

How are you, by the way? Are you still at that new (but by now old! ) job? Sill liking it?

And what about that kitten you had? How is he?

(I don't check in all the time as you can see :/) Feel free to ignore the questions if you don't feel like giving an update.

Haha!! My personal life has never been all that personal so no problems
Going well, if by new job you mean the geotech job unfortunately that all fell apart. Back in the electricity and gas industry again and now have my home business cutting opals and other stuff!

The kitten is a little terror, @PintoBean gets regular pics of him being a general weirdo. He's growing so bloody fast though

 

[PintoBean]

Haha!! My personal life has never been all that personal so no problems
Going well, if by new job you mean the geotech job unfortunately that all fell apart. Back in the electricity and gas industry again and now have my home business cutting opals and other stuff!

The kitten is a little terror, @PintoBean gets regular pics of him being a general weirdo. He's growing so bloody fast though

Stop talking about the kitten I plan on stealing from you, @jordyonbass! I don't want anyone else getting the same ideas.

 

[CJ2008]

When I was in my early 20s and in college I worked at American Eagle at the local mall. They loved scheduling us for "on call" shifts. These were shifts for which we had to call in an hour before hand to see if they needed us or not which depended on how busy they were that day. By booking on call shifts they had employees on demand, who they didn't have to pay unless they actually came in, but the employee had to be ready and available.

I went to university close enough to my parent's home that I regularly went home for the weekend. But it was a long enough drive that if I were booked for on call on Saturday then I couldn't go home. It was really terrible. You're not sure if you'll have money because you don't know if you're working. You couldn't take other jobs or paid work just in case. You couldn't make plans with friends.

The US has some really terrible employment laws which thoroughly take advantage of workers, especially lower paid workers.

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible. The only way that would seem remotely fair is if people are given the choice whether they're OK being on call. And even then, they should pay SOMETHING for the privilege and convenience of having someone on call, even if they end up not needing them.

 

[CJ2008]

Unfortunately this happens in many different fields and not just one or 2 industries.

I am an independent consultant in healthcare and work in an FQHC. A new corporation took over last year and cut the clinicians hours but just when it suits the corporation. So on slower days I might work 4 hours and the next 8 hours and it goes against the spirit of how the clinicians were initially hired which was for a full day for most of us. They expect us to keep our day open for them as they need us. For now most of us are biding our time but personally I am leaning towards retiring and when the situation stops being convenient for me (as right now it works out for me just fine) is the day I will decide I am done here. I feel (and don't know for sure) that this might be illegal and I also don't feel we meet the strict definition of independent contractor. But I could be completely wrong and since I prefer being paid as an independent contractor I am OK with it for now.

Right it's one of those things that if it happens to be working for you you'll put up with it, but still, you KNOW it's not right. To expect people to keep their day open without some sort of compensation (and without giving them choice) is not right.

Same thing with the independent contractor issue. From what I understand it is a very strict definition (they can't dictate your hours is one of the definitions, I think) and someone will likely eventually report them.

 

[CJ2008]

Yup, "flex shifts" is what they were called when I worked PT for a big box interior decor store a few summers ago. I just wanted a little part time job for the discount and some pocket money, but the entire job was total b.s. Very low pay (just above minimum wage) and the expectations were absolutely ridiculous. Not only that, but there were hazards to employees and customers all over the place, and the quotas one was required to meet were damn near impossible. After a few weeks of feeling like I was just there to risk my health and sell their credit card, I quit, and am not one bit sorry I did not give notice. Prior to that "job" I had been in retail management for years so I knew what was right and wrong, and the only reason that store has continued to survive in this town for 35+ years is that it's close to IU campus and poor college students don't know any better than to put up with those conditions. Pity, because that store imports ALL their product for nothing and sells it for exhorbitant price points.

That sounds pretty terrible monarch. The expectations and responsibilities don't match the pay. It's like a whole industry of that.

And I think in many of these jobs people undervalue themselves. At my local deli there are so many young girls with great customer service skills, upbeat personalities, and just sharp. I always think they should / could be doing something else. I think these jobs are just the easy ones to get and maybe the hours work for them, etc. But I also think in some cases for sure it's a matter of not realizing that those traits are real assets.

 

[CJ2008]

In healthcare (I am an ICU RN) this happens all the time-- I used to get calls for 2 out of 3 shifts for the week in the ICU telling me census is too low and we are not needed for our shifts.

Wow. How much notice would they give you?

 

[CJ2008]

Haha!! My personal life has never been all that personal so no problems
Going well, if by new job you mean the geotech job unfortunately that all fell apart. Back in the electricity and gas industry again and now have my home business cutting opals and other stuff!

The kitten is a little terror, @PintoBean gets regular pics of him being a general weirdo. He's growing so bloody fast though

I forget what the new job was, but yes that must have been it. Hope you're content being back to the electricity and gas industry, and congratulations on your home business!

Sorry to hear the kitten's a terror I'm sure his cuteness makes up for it and glad pinto gets to see him with her permission I'd like to request some pictures please. @PintoBean unless you explicitly deny permission, in writing, within 24 hours it will be understood that you have granted it.

 

[missy]

Right it's one of those things that if it happens to be working for you you'll put up with it, but still, you KNOW it's not right. To expect people to keep their day open without some sort of compensation (and without giving them choice) is not right.

Same thing with the independent contractor issue. From what I understand it is a very strict definition (they can't dictate your hours is one of the definitions, I think) and someone will likely eventually report them.

Yes I really loathe the way they are taking advantage of their independent contractors. No benefits, no vacation, no health, no sick days etc and we pay full social security and what advantages do we get? When it is slow we have to leave and don't even get paid as we are all hourly. It sucks and while I am making the best of it for now I am on the verge of quitting or a more gentle word-retiring because I am tired and ready to be done as it isn't better in other situations in my field these days. And I have no energy nor desire nor ambition to open up my own practice at this stage of my life. Ready for some respite from the madness that exists in the healthcare field these days.

 

[missy]

In healthcare (I am an ICU RN) this happens all the time-- I used to get calls for 2 out of 3 shifts for the week in the ICU telling me census is too low and we are not needed for our shifts.

That sucks and it is so unfair they can get away with treating their valued healthcare professionals in this way.

 

[missy]

Stop talking about the kitten I plan on stealing from you, @jordyonbass! I don't want anyone else getting the same ideas.

Too late I want to do the same...
Kitty!


gratuitous francesca photo...

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Wow. How much notice would they give you?

I'd get a call 2 hrs before shift start. This especially sucked since at the time I was working night shift.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

That sucks and it is so unfair they can get away with treating their valued healthcare professionals in this way.

Luckily for us, we're not dependent on my income whatsoever-- it just means less luxuries. It comes with the territory unfortunately. This is why some nurses have per diem position elsewhere to fill in the gaps.

 

[t-c]

I thought restaurants and retail have always wanted to minimize the cost of employee compensation by decreasing employee hours (also decreasing hours below the threshold above which employees are entitled to benefits).

The difference is that businesses now have software that looks at schedules, sales, etc...near real time, so changes to schedule can be made to respond to current and projected situations. It doesn't mean it's great for the workers, but when have workers been prioritized by large profit-driven companies?

For my one retail experience, I was lucky enough to work for a small business. The owner and manager did their best to establish a schedule convenient for all employees (all college students) and we mostly stuck with it through the entire semester. But that's because it's a pain moving people's hours around. Now, a computer can work it all out.

 

[jordyonbass]

I forget what the new job was, but yes that must have been it. Hope you're content being back to the electricity and gas industry, and congratulations on your home business!

Sorry to hear the kitten's a terror I'm sure his cuteness makes up for it and glad pinto gets to see him with her permission I'd like to request some pictures please. @PintoBean unless you explicitly deny permission, in writing, within 24 hours it will be understood that you have granted it.

Luckily permission has been granted!!