Requirements to be H&A at James Allen compared to others like whiteflash etc

[bschai]

Hi,

I would like to know if there is a big difference regarding the "quality/requirements" for H&A diamonds at James Allen , whiteflash and others.

I read from whiteflash that they have a set of rules (something like a 16 point check, such as size of the heart, or the split at the heart etc) to satisfy before calling a particular diamond H&A (ACA in their case).

But at James Allen site, there is little info about their selection process for H&A diamonds to be in their signature line.

Does anyone know if they (James Allen) loosely call any diamond that shows hearts and arrows pattern H&A in the signature line?

They only show the pictures for the arrows but not the pictures for the hearts.


Or are they pretty much the same as H&A offered by other sellers?

Thanks in advance.

bschai

 

[strmrdr]

ask em
WF, GOG, and Paul's Infinity line all have tight h&a tolerance levels.
There is some disagreement on clefts(caused by lgf%), Im in the camp that Brian is a little too conservative on clefts.(more cleft is fine, longer lgf% is fine and sometimes better)

 

[Vitamin K]

I am a newbie but they are all pretty much the same from what I have found. If you get a certified stone, I would find one that is AGS certed. GIA is good for color and clarity but they are a little looser on cut. H&A is a branded cut like "hearts a fire". Those are all names for an Ideal cut that you will just be paying extra money for. The cut will be the same. If you get a certed AGS0 you will still have very good hearts and arrows. IT is a byproduct of an ideal cut. If you find an Ideal cut that is certed as an AGS0 it isn''t going to matter where you buy from. You do need to be sure that the cert is newer IE like an ''07 because they made their tolerances even tighter.

 

[bschai]

Vitamin K,

Thanks for the reply . As far as I know, H&A is not a branded cut like Hearts on fire. In fact, Hearts on fire is a brand of H&A cut diamond. Another example of a branded H&A cut would be ACA from Whiteflash. So, I think H&A is a type of cut not a branded cut.


The issue is different people have different definition of what should be considered H&A. (e.g. how bad a heart pattern should one not considered it to be H&A) That''s why I am kind of puzzled with different vendors'' take on H&A.

However, most vendor''s H&A diamonds are typically graded with Ideal cut from GIA or AGS000 from AGSL.

So, if you buy a H&A diamond form say James allen, or Whiteflash, it''s already implied that they''ll have ideal cut or AGS0 rating. However, not all AGS0 diamonds will exhibit the H&A pattern.

This is why I am a bit confused to tell the difference between H&A diamonds between different vendors since there is no certification or industry accepted grading methods for H&A diamonds.


I saw one H&A diamond from James Allen that I am interested in, but I don''t know if they have a loose/strict requirements to select H&A diamond, that''s why the initial post.

Thanks

 

[strmrdr]

bschai you have done your homework. Bravo
one little correction GIA's top grade is Excellent not ideal.

get the heart image and post it if there is one stone you have in mind.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/23/2007 10:05:30 PM
Author: Vitamin K
I am a newbie but they are all pretty much the same from what I have found. If you get a certified stone, I would find one that is AGS certed. GIA is good for color and clarity but they are a little looser on cut. H&A is a branded cut like ''hearts a fire''. Those are all names for an Ideal cut that you will just be paying extra money for. The cut will be the same. If you get a certed AGS0 you will still have very good hearts and arrows. IT is a byproduct of an ideal cut. If you find an Ideal cut that is certed as an AGS0 it isn''t going to matter where you buy from. You do need to be sure that the cert is newer IE like an ''07 because they made their tolerances even tighter.

I must take some minor issue with you here.

H&A is a branded name in Japan, here it is a generic term for any diamond that displays the Hearts and Arrows pattern under a viewer.

Many AGS 0 cut graded stones will NOT have H&A patterns, it is NOT a requirement to get the AGS 0 cut grade. It is NOT a byproduct of an ideal cut, but rather the result of cutting to very exacting standards and getting seventeen of the major facets into perfect balance with one another to produce the pattern, it is not an accident.

Yes, you will normally be paying a small premium for a true H&A diamond, but the cut is NOT the same. Stick around and learn some more, soon you will be at one with us cut fanatics.

Wink

 

[bschai]

Thanks for all the info. I learn more today.


strmrdr, I do have a stone from JA that I am interested, but they don''t offer the hearts picture (only the picture of the arrows).

That''s why i wonder if JA''s H&A requirement is not as strict and may result in not as perfect hearts pattern?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/24/2007 1:38:33 AM
Author: bschai
Thanks for all the info. I learn more today.


strmrdr, I do have a stone from JA that I am interested, but they don't offer the hearts picture (only the picture of the arrows).

That's why i wonder if JA's H&A requirement is not as strict and may result in not as perfect hearts pattern?

Have you asked for the heart picture?
Frankly while I like Jim if they arent willing to provide you enough info too make you comfortable then move on to another vendor that will.
That goes for any vendor.
Further any vendor selling a stone as h&a should be willing to provide the hearts image and really should have it available without asking.

 

[bschai]

Yeah, I did ask them for a hearts picture but they said it''s not avaiable. (they post the Ideal-scope pic, i.e. the arrows on the website).

That''s why i am also a bit concerned. But like what you said, I''ll look at others that have more detailed info esp. both hearts and arrows pictures.

 

[fannibal]

Heh this is my first post on PS. I am actually looking at a james allen hearts and arrows diamond as well. I hope we aren''t competing for the same diamond(1.02 carat with $6080 asking price). Anyhow, I e-mailed dave taylor and he says the hearts idealscope image is not available. What to do? what to do?

oh by the way, in case you were wondering, james allen says they can turn any 4 prong setting into a 6 prong setting. SCHWWEEET!

-Fannibal

 

[Dave@JA]

Hey folks. Dave Taylor from James Allen here. I just wanted to clarify that the reason that we do not provide hearts and arrows pictures is not because we do not want to. The actual reason is that we do not currently have a photographic configuration to take these sort of pictures. With pictures such as Idealscopes, taking a picture is easy because the Idealscope tool is small enough that it fits directly under the camrea. However, a H&A viewer is long and narrow and cannot physically fit under the camera. We have tried different configurations and hope to have the ability to take H&A pictures in the future. You can rest assured that we are talking to our diamond division in NY about this issue.

Take care!