Red light camera ticket... experience/advice, please?

[musey]

This happened about a week ago. I was approaching an intersection, and the light was green. The light turned yellow, so I pressed on my brakes. It had been raining that night, and the road was slick... my timing with the light was just right to cause a problem--of course!

My tires skidded when I attempted to brake, so I took my foot off, then tried again, more slowly. Skidded again. At this point I was getting too close to the intersection to stop safely on dry pavement, much less the obviously slick wet pavement. Since I am normally a very cautious driver, I was nervous and watching the light the whole time. It was still yellow as I crossed the crosswalk, so I increased speed to hopefully clear the light in as safe a manner as possible. Then I saw the flash!

Of course I was kicking myself, but I really don''t think there was anything I could have done differently. (??)

So my citation came today, to the tune of $380 (normal, I''m told). I can handle that, but I don''t want it to effect my already high insurance premium.

Do I have grounds to contest the ticket? Anyone have experience with this??

 

[Selkie]

Oh, do I have experience with this.

My first ticket was from a very similar incident on the westside, and it was at night so the flash was blinding. For the second, I had NO idea I had even run a red light.

Your citation should have information for looking up your ticket and your plea options online, depending on what jurisdiction you were in. I've never contested a ticket, but this is the gist of it: you'll need to go to court on a set date and present your case. If you win, your citation gets cancelled. If you don't you pay, but still have the option to do traffic school. I read a good article somewhere about the procedure and will see if I can find it. Have you written everything down, including estimated speeds?

If you don't want to contest it, you can probably still avoid insurance rate hikes. Three words: Online Traffic School. If you have no other violations within 18 months of this ticket, you can do an online course (you could actually go to a physical traffic school, too, but why??) that will keep the ticket from appearing on your record. Of course, you have to pay both the fine and a course fee (usually ~$100).

BTW, my first violation happened the very day after I put my permanent plates on my car. Had I been a bonehead and run the red light one day earlier, no ticket. A good lesson, really.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Around here we call it "getting flashed." My HH got flashed about a year ago and he had no idea. The ticket included pictures of both the license plate and his face so it was clearly true. I belive there are very few ways to get out of these tickets: funeral procession, moving out of the way of an emergency vehicle, and one other that I can''t think of off the top of my head... Let us know if you do successfully contest it!

 

[Selkie]

I just checked, and you can also write a letter to present your case and contest by mail instead of going to court. It''s called Trial by Declaration, and if you google it you''ll get tons of info (AND a ton of ads for traffic ticket lawyers, of course.)

 

[musey]

Thanks everyone!

All of my driver''s ed was in Illinois, and I remember being taught that you are to stop at a yellow light "if you can safely do so." This definitely fell into the un-safe category... if I''d tried to stop as though going through weren''t an option, I would''ve skidded into the middle of the intersection!

I don''t know if the rules out here in CA are different, though.

My only honest defense is that the rain made it impossible to safely stop for the light. If that''s not good enough to have it dismissed, though, I won''t bother with contesting.


Selkie, thank you for the online traffic school tip! I did in-person traffic school when I was 16 (got a speeding ticket a week after getting my license--going 38 in a 35

) and it was pretty ridiculous, so I''m glad to hear they offer it online now.

SDL, thanks for offering to talk to your husband about it! Let me know what he thinks.


ETA: Deejay, getting flashed, too funny!!

 

[musey]

Date: 4/10/2008 7:36:24 PM
Author: Selkie
I just checked, and you can also write a letter to present your case and contest by mail instead of going to court. It''s called Trial by Declaration, and if you google it you''ll get tons of info (AND a ton of ads for traffic ticket lawyers, of course.)

I saw something about this, and I have to admit it sounds a LOT more appealing than an in-person court appearance, but I heard that they''re less likely to rule in your favor. Don''t know if that''s true, but I''ve tended to inspire leniency in authority figures in the past because I seem "sweet" (haha) so maybe I should take advantage of that with this as well...

 

[Elmorton]

From what I understand, the cameras can also be pretty unreliable. Did you get to see the photo with your citation?

Here in IA, the courts just found traffic cameras to be somehow unconstitutional (I was only vaguely following the story) - there are cameras at almost all of our major intersections, but they''ve been out of use for months. So...if you want to start a state supreme court case, you can use IA as your precedent!

 

[musey]

Date: 4/10/2008 7:53:47 PM
Author: Elmorton

From what I understand, the cameras can also be pretty unreliable. Did you get to see the photo with your citation?

The are two of my whole car (one at the crosswalk and one in the intersection), and closeups of my license plate and my face. No picture of the light, though there is a little digital-looking diagram that I think states that the light is red? If that's what it's saying, it says the light was red when I got to the crosswalk, but I SWEAR it wasn't... and my eyes were locked on that thing the whole time. You can definitely see the spray from the wet road, ha.

The pics are posted online so I could post them here (not the closeups, of course!), do you think there are any legal problems with me doing that?

I hope the rest of the country follows Iowa's lead...

 

[somethingshiny]

In IL, if you go to your scheduled court appearance (which is automatically included on your ticket), most of the time the officer doesn''t show up, so the ticket is dismissed. You could try your luck that way, too. (if the same laws apply in CA)

 

[musey]

Date: 4/10/2008 10:07:08 PM
Author: somethingshiny
In IL, if you go to your scheduled court appearance (which is automatically included on your ticket), most of the time the officer doesn't show up, so the ticket is dismissed. You could try your luck that way, too. (if the same laws apply in CA)

Would work great if they gave me a court date

I have to request one. If I have to set it up, I'd imagine whoever the representative is (the camera?? haha) would make more of an effort to be there than if it were just automatic.

 

[ljmorgan]

musey, sorry about your terrible luck! my dad is a police officer and always told me that if you have time to think about stopping for a yellow light, stop for the light. of course in your case it was too slick! really tough circumstances... if you don''t make $150 an hour it would be worth your time to go to court and plead mercy with the judge. explain how you''ve never run a light before, that you definitely would have stopped but it was slick, etc. if it doesn''t work out, you''ll just pay the fine as planned. I definitely recommend going to court in person rather than via letter.

 

[AmberGretchen]

musey - that''s so rotten. Its such a horrible feeling to feel like you are such a safe and careful driver and were trying to do the right thing, and you ended up with this huge nasty ticket. I got a speeding ticket over the summer and it was horrible - there was no way I was going anywhere NEAR the speed the cop claimed I was going (I looked at my speedometer), but I think it registered because he measured it with a radar through a huge truck right next to me, and apparently radars pick up the largest object in their field (which clearly wasn''t me...).

Anyway, I found this really helpful website about all the details on fighting a traffic ticket in California, here''s the link My ticket got dismissed because the cop didn''t show up, but the advice was all really helpful and I think I would have had a good case even if he didn''t show up. I''d take a look and follow his advice, if you can.

 

[sunkist]

Hi Musey, don''t these red light cameras stink? I think they can make intersections less safe because a lot of times people slam on the brakes when that yellow comes. If you live in Orange County, or if the ticket was there, I have heard that if you don''t respond to the red-light camera tickets at all, just ignore it, then it falls by the wayside... Because they are so back logged I guess. So if you''re feeling lucky

Or I''d try fighting it in court but there''s always a chance you can lose. If you''re most concerned about points and insurance probably the safest easiest way to take care of it is to do online traffic school (unless you''re in OC and then it''s not allowed).

 

[monarch64]

That''s a tough one, Musey. I can completely understand your logic, and I think you did what you had to do to stay in control of your vehicle and avoid harm to yourself and others.

In Indiana, (I grew up there and got a couple speeding tickets) there is/was such a thing as being able to "defer" a ticket, which means you could pay the ticket and plead no contest, but sign up for a program where you had to make sure you had zero moving or parking violatons for one year after. That way the ticket wouldn''t go against your insurance, at least. If I were you I would call and find out if that program is offered in your state, at least that way you can keep the ticket from affecting your premium.

 

[musey]

Thanks SDL! I think that the pictures indicate that it was red when I entered (by .4 seconds, gimme a break! haha) even though I really, really, really thought it was yellow.

It really sucks to have done everything I could possibly do and still have this ticket staring me in the face. Apparently the lights in California are NOT timed to allow for rain!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/11/2008 11:51:37 AM
Author: musey
Thanks SDL! I think that the pictures indicate that it was red when I entered (by .4 seconds, gimme a break! haha) even though I really, really, really thought it was yellow.


It really sucks to have done everything I could possibly do and still have this ticket staring me in the face. Apparently the lights in California are NOT timed to allow for rain!

I would personally tell your story about the rain, etc. and then come up with as much evidence as possible (such as the recent court case in IA) to back up that the cameras are notoriously unreliable and that they don''t take into account the fact that it was raining, etc.

And just stick to your guns and say that you tried to stop, but because of the rain you hydroplaned and at that point if you had continued to stop you would have ended up in the intersection, out of control, and you felt that the risks of causing injury to someone else were lower if you continued through the intersection.

Good luck!

 

[sumbride]

I thought I posted my reply last night but I guess it didn't work...

Be careful with the rain defense. The posted speed limit is for "dry, clear days" and you are supposed to lower your speed in inclement weather. You may very well be told you were speeding if you were unable to stop due to the rain. These tickets are extremely difficult to fight for the mere fact that they have a picture.

In MD, it doesn't count against you for insurance purposes, so you may want to doublecheck that it does in CA. I think here it has to do with them not being able to prove it was YOU driving because ours don't take a pic of the driver. I think that has to do with civil liberties... you still have to pay the fine because the car is registered to you no matter who is driving, but it doesn't hit insurance.

 

[Elmorton]

Davenport, IA Red Light Camera


Here''s a story I found on our cameras...so...I lied, it''s just the town I live in, although it caused quite a stir most of the other major Iowa cities as well. The issue has something to do with how the revenue from the tickets is used, who is issuing the citation, and that the owner of the car is ticketed, not necessarily the driver. Regardless, though, the cameras are now out of use.

OH! I found another article that mentioned how since the cameras went up, so did the rate of intersection collisions, but they have no way to know if there''s a correlation there or not.