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recutting a steep/deep diamond

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Kelli

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2008
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5,455
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker and very much enjoy learning and drooling over everyone''s pictures! I found pricescope a short time before I got engaged and THOUGHT I had learned a lot and made a smart purchase. I even made my now fiance get his money back on a 1ct. Leo diamond we had a deposit on. I found a diamond on a website I hadn''t heard about here, but went ahead with it and was very pleased. I had a thirty day money back guarantee, but when I saw my stone I fell in love
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and in no way was about to send it back. Unfortunately, it is now long past my thirty days but I have noticed something I am not happy with. In most lighting situations my stone is beautiful and sparkly, and in sunlight I feel it is breathtaking! However, I have noticed that in my fiance''s truck and a few other places, I see what I now know is the "ring of death" or the "fisheye" effect. I have no idea why it took me so long to see it, I guess the initial excitement blinded me a little. In all of my research on ideal proportions I somehow didn''t realize the importance of crown angle/pavilion angle proportions. I alsio somehow missed the importance of the holloway cut advisor
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My diamond is a 1.44 ct. I VS2 GIA excellent cut with ex polish, ex symmetry, and faint fluorescence which I love!!!! Any future rocks will have to have at least medium, maybe strong! But back to my point... My stone only scores around a four on the HCA. I now know that is because of the steep/deep crown and pavilion angles. Here are some stats:
1.44 I VS2 RB
7.3x7.33x4.3
Table 56
Depth 61.5
crown angle 35.5
pavilion angle 41.2
ex polish and symmetry
I did not want a branded diamond because I was on a budget and didn''t want to pay any premium, but now I see why maybe I should have, or maybe at least held off until I knew more. I didn''t realize the over-whelming amount of info there is on the right cut! I do still like my diamond, but being that we paid almost $8000 for it I want to really love it! I don''t think that returning\selling it is an option, I wouldn''t want to do that anyway. But I have been reading about recutting and someone mentioned that a pavilion repolish can fix a lot of things. I entered my stone on the HCA and with less than one percent smaller on the PA it scores under a 2. I wouldn''t want to lose a lot of the weight and I read that a pavilion repolish doesn''t take as much. My stone has a small cloud that''s kind of near the cutlet so I didn''t know if this would be possible either. I was hoping to get some of your expert opinions! And by the way when I find a good enough camera I will post pictures. Thanks in advance!!!
 
Welcome Kelli!

You really need an expert to look at the stone to advise your diamond is a suitable candidate for a recut, try www.brayscore.com as Bill should be able to advise you.
 
Make the pavilion adjustment only to around 40.4 or 40.5 degrees.
The weight loss will be really small - 2-3 points only
 
That would be wonderful!!! How would I go about finding a great cutter to do this? If I have to send it away I will but I was hoping to fnd someone local. I live in the Tampa area (about an hour north) and would be willing to drive a ways to see someone. Also, what should I expect to pay for this? Is there a standard price range or does it all depend on the individual stone?
 
Look for a local appraiser in the Apriasers under Resources - top right tool bar
 
Thanks!!!
 
before you recut it clean it.
That combo will be dirt sensitive so keep it clean.
That could be why it took you a long time to notice it.
Get a home ultra-sonic and run it thru it once a week.
 
I actually do keep it really clean. I''m still very obsessive about it so i clean it every day. I don''t have an ultrasonic, but I had it cleaned with one at a local B&M about a week ago. Unfortunately, that doesn''t seem to be the problem. If I really can just reshape the bottom wothout it looking smaller I will be more than thrilled!
 
Ok... found a local appraiser who actually lives in my small little town. So I got very excited and called right away, but he told me I''d have a lumpy looking diamond if I just cut the bottom and that I would lose twenty to twenty five percent with a full cut. I tried to explain what I wanted to do, but he didn''t know what the HCA was. I explained it to him and he told me that both GIA and AGS grade diamonds on light reflection and that if GIA said it''s an excellent cut, then it is. He said that this cut advisor (he asked me the name of it twice again after I told him about it the first time) was probably very dated and that I should trust the GIA. But he said he would take a look and his rates are $135 an hour. Just thought you guys would get a kick out of that! I obviously will be looking elsewhere for someone who is as picky about cut as I am!

P.S. It really shouldn''t look lumpy though right???
 
no, it''s not lumpy at all! it has a nice, high crown.
 
Date: 5/27/2008 11:47:44 PM
Author: Kelli
Ok... found a local appraiser who actually lives in my small little town. So I got very excited and called right away, but he told me I'd have a lumpy looking diamond if I just cut the bottom and that I would lose twenty to twenty five percent with a full cut. I tried to explain what I wanted to do, but he didn't know what the HCA was. I explained it to him and he told me that both GIA and AGS grade diamonds on light reflection and that if GIA said it's an excellent cut, then it is. He said that this cut advisor (he asked me the name of it twice again after I told him about it the first time) was probably very dated and that I should trust the GIA. But he said he would take a look and his rates are $135 an hour. Just thought you guys would get a kick out of that! I obviously will be looking elsewhere for someone who is as picky about cut as I am!


P.S. It really shouldn't look lumpy though right???
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Kelli- Try Richard Sherwood. He's in Sarasota, so maybe you could make a day trip down to see him? He's WONDERFUL.

The guy you talked to obviously isn't up on the latest technology, which isn't a good sign.
 
good call, neatfreak.
 
Thanks! Does anyone know if he would do the cutting there, or would he have to send it out as well? I figure it''s a long shot to find a cutter anywhere near me, but I would at least like to have it looked at in person before I decide to do it.
 
he will be able to evaulate if it''s a good candidate for cutting. if it is, then he should be able to refer/recommend a cutter.
 
Ok. Thanks for your replies everyone. I will have to see about getting to sarasota someday... Not in a big rush, but good to know there might be options. As said before I really do like my stone and if I hadn''t spent so much time on here reading about the BEST cuts, I probably wouldn''t have ever known any better
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My sister''s earrings do the same thing so at first I just figured diamonds do that. Also considering that my pet rock is beautiful in my home, my work, outside, and in my favorite restaurant, I can probably live with it as is for a while. And now I will know better when it''s time to pick out my pendant, earrings, and RHR
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Just kidding, house and wedding will definitely have to come first! Not to mention food and gas!
 
Please consider all advice regarding re-cutting carefully. As someone who has re-cut stones on a large scale I would like to warn you about several risks involved.
Firstly,although rarely,there is the possibility of breakage. Secondly and more likely,there is a chance the stone will overheat (get burned)and become opaque in certain or all areas which could necessitate repolishing of the whole stone. Thirdly there is the chance that the cutter will slightly overpolish one pavillion facet and throw the culet off center,in which case you can forget about getting an excellent cut from GIA again in case you resubmit your stone for re-grading.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Date: 5/28/2008 12:08:14 AM
Author: Kelli
Thanks! Does anyone know if he would do the cutting there, or would he have to send it out as well? I figure it's a long shot to find a cutter anywhere near me, but I would at least like to have it looked at in person before I decide to do it.
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Rich is an appraiser not a diamond cutter. He may be able to recommend a cutter for you. And as Junior says, you need to weigh up the potential risks involved. To the best of my knowledge, you have to take the risk when having a diamond recut as it is very difficult to get insurance for this procedure, so if something disastrous happens such as the diamond breaking ( rare by all accounts) you may have to bear the loss. It isn't a risk free procedure.
 
Thanks again everyone for your input. Have to ask though... Would you do it if you were me? I get these ideas in my head and have been known to be a CRAZY perfectionist! The ring is still very pretty, not perfect by PSers standards, but pretty. I think so, and other peoples' reactions to it seem to tell me it's pretty too. I really wish I had some decent pictures to post. I'll have to get on that... So I ask you- would you try to fix the proportions or just get over it and enjoy your diamond with flaws and all? Have any of you actually done this? Or does anyone have diamonds that you'd like to change but haven't? I trust other diamond obsessed people to give me great opinions. My fiance and family would think I'm nuts if I ever brought this up to them. Thanks again!!!!


~~~This is of course IF my diamond is even a good candidate for it! But it would be a pretty long drive to sarasota , so if everyone told me I was too obsessive and to leave it alone, that might make me think twice about going or at least put it off for a while.
 
Date: 5/28/2008 10:53:35 AM
Author: Kelli
Thanks again everyone for your input. Have to ask though... Would you do it if you were me? I get these ideas in my head and have been known to be a CRAZY perfectionist! The ring is still very pretty, not perfect by PSers standards, but pretty. I think so, and other peoples'' reactions to it seem to tell me it''s pretty too. I really wish I had some decent pictures to post. I''ll have to get on that... So I ask you- would you try to fix the proportions or just get over it and enjoy your diamond with flaws and all? Have any of you actually done this? Or does anyone have diamonds that you''d like to change but haven''t? I trust other diamond obsessed people to give me great opinions. My fiance and family would think I''m nuts if I ever brought this up to them. Thanks again!!!!


~~~This is of course IF my diamond is even a good candidate for it! But it would be a pretty long drive to sarasota , so if everyone told me I was too obsessive and to leave it alone, that might make me think twice about going or at least put it off for a while.
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I think that some of us have been where you are now. It could be something such as performance which causes us to second guess ourselves, an inclusion which may or may not be visible, a tint of colour, size etc - many reasons. I would give it a bit of time and see how you feel if getting to an expert isn''t that easy - and an expert opinion is essential before you can consider doing anything. Then if it continues to prey on your mind, then it might be worth putting in the effort to see what can be done.

But maybe you will fall in love with your diamond again, if you don''t see the effects you describe all the time, it does sound as if it has some attributes you like. Personally I think the best thing is to give it a bit of time, then see how you feel. You might find that in a few weeks, that you love your diamond and are at peace with it.
 
Date: 5/27/2008 11:47:44 PM
Author: Kelli
Ok... found a local appraiser who actually lives in my small little town. So I got very excited and called right away, but he told me I''d have a lumpy looking diamond if I just cut the bottom and that I would lose twenty to twenty five percent with a full cut. I tried to explain what I wanted to do, but he didn''t know what the HCA was. I explained it to him and he told me that both GIA and AGS grade diamonds on light reflection and that if GIA said it''s an excellent cut, then it is. He said that this cut advisor (he asked me the name of it twice again after I told him about it the first time) was probably very dated and that I should trust the GIA. But he said he would take a look and his rates are $135 an hour. Just thought you guys would get a kick out of that! I obviously will be looking elsewhere for someone who is as picky about cut as I am!

P.S. It really shouldn''t look lumpy though right???
Click to expand...
Kelli, did you get that appraisers name from here?
 
kelli, i had a stone recut to GIA 3x. it had a very shallow crown angle with a large table. it was the desire to be rid of the fisheye that made me recut also. i also had a choice to how much weight i was willing to give up on the stone. i chose to go with the 3x which was more weight loss in the end.

i had chipped the girdle, so i figured it was worth getting the stone fixed up. it came great. and yes i see a huge difference between before and after.

the price wasn''t bad either, the recut and sending to gia for new cert cost around 250/300 dollars.
 
Date: 5/28/2008 12:00:10 PM
Author: Eva17
kelli, i had a stone recut to GIA 3x. it had a very shallow crown angle with a large table. it was the desire to be rid of the fisheye that made me recut also. i also had a choice to how much weight i was willing to give up on the stone. i chose to go with the 3x which was more weight loss in the end.

i had chipped the girdle, so i figured it was worth getting the stone fixed up. it came great. and yes i see a huge difference between before and after.

the price wasn''t bad either, the recut and sending to gia for new cert cost around 250/300 dollars.
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What was your carat weight before, and after?

Kelli needs to understand that there WILL be loss, though perhaps not as much as you or dancing fire.

Personally I would leave well enough alone. It''s not as though it''s a dog.
 
Date: 5/28/2008 10:53:35 AM
Author: Kelli
Thanks again everyone for your input. Have to ask though... Would you do it if you were me? I get these ideas in my head and have been known to be a CRAZY perfectionist! The ring is still very pretty, not perfect by PSers standards, but pretty. I think so, and other peoples'' reactions to it seem to tell me it''s pretty too. I really wish I had some decent pictures to post. I''ll have to get on that... So I ask you- would you try to fix the proportions or just get over it and enjoy your diamond with flaws and all? Have any of you actually done this? Or does anyone have diamonds that you''d like to change but haven''t? I trust other diamond obsessed people to give me great opinions. My fiance and family would think I''m nuts if I ever brought this up to them. Thanks again!!!!


~~~This is of course IF my diamond is even a good candidate for it! But it would be a pretty long drive to sarasota , so if everyone told me I was too obsessive and to leave it alone, that might make me think twice about going or at least put it off for a while.
Click to expand...
I know it''s hard but you fell in love w/ the stone initially and like many of us have started to dissect every nuance.

I say if it continues to really bother u start investigating, otherwise love it and wear it in good health!

Not everybody loves H&A or super duper white stones, etc. And tastes change over time.

While I admire many a stone here, I don''t love them all and some of these are cut to the "perfect PS standards."

Truly, beauty is in the beholder''s eye.
 
my stone went from 2 to 1.76. it is by no means an ags 000, it is gia 3x. we all know how much play there is to gia 3x. i know i would have to give up more weight to get to ags000. so it is still not "true ps" perfection. i did have the choice of light degree changes to try to clean it up, but i chose to go with the amount that would just get it classifed 3x.

but it was a huge improvement. and i do prefer looking at the stone now compared to having a "eye" following me into every lighting condition. i had the stone for about 6 years before i had it recut and reset. plus i had the chip. so i didn''t want to reset it without fixing the chip. (which would have been alot less weight loss if i chose that route)
 
Once again, thank you all so much! Dancing Fire- I looked at your stone a lot before I ever posted. It''s gorgeous and part of the reason I decided recutting might be an option. I''m glad to hear that others'' recuts went well. Also glad to hear that maybe I should just leave it alone. I''m pretty sure I have decided FOR NOW to just leave well enough alone. Who''s to say I can''t fix it ten years from now if I feel like it right? Also, maybe in a few years I can get a much smaller but more perfectly cut pendant and see if I really notice the difference. That could be fun! If I change my mind though I''ll go ahead and make the trip to Sarasota. And Ellen yes I did find that appraiser on pricescope. I was so excited to see he is about two miles from my house. The local jewelers here are not generally very knowledgable, so you could imagine my excitement at first, then my disappointment when he told me the HCA was probably just some outdated technology. But you all are very helpful and understanding so THANKS
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Date: 5/27/2008 1:45:08 PM
Author: strmrdr
before you recut it clean it.
That combo will be dirt sensitive so keep it clean.
That could be why it took you a long time to notice it.
Get a home ultra-sonic and run it thru it once a week.
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You probably see a dark ring face up just inside the table.
It might not be an issue with a little tilt as shown with the ideal-scope here - go to the site or the tutorial here if you need to learn more.

Hope that helps.

It is also possible the stone has a little painting which can help lessen the effect - but I would recut it.

the dirt does make the stone more see thru in the pavilion.

steep deep dirty clean.JPG
 
Thanks for posting again! I really would like to recut it, but am worried about the risks. My fiance and I are not in a financial position to replace a stone, would not be for a very long time and I don''t know how insurance works with something like this. I guess I could do a little research on that, but if anyone knows anything about it, input would be greatly appreciated. I recently got insured with jewelers mutual. There is a cloud in the center of the stone somewhat near the bottom. I can clearly see it from all sides. It looks to me like there would still be plenty of room to go before hitting it but obviously I am no expert. I''ve heard that breaking is possible, but rare, and that over-heating can damage the stone also. I would LOVE to have a an HCA .6 TIC stone, but would be heartbroken (and in a lot of trouble with future husband) if I went through with this and broke my diamond. It would be at least a two-hour drive there and back to see Richard Sherwood but I would not want to see anyone not highly recommended here. I think I will eventually go but will have to find a whole day I can free up. Timothy Shuler is an appraiser listed here and is much closer to my home, so I''d be glad to hear anyone''s experiences with him. Any more info or opinions more than welcome, thanks again!
 
Date: 5/30/2008 12:20:14 AM
Author: Kelli
Thanks for posting again! I really would like to recut it, but am worried about the risks. My fiance and I are not in a financial position to replace a stone, would not be for a very long time and I don't know how insurance works with something like this. I guess I could do a little research on that, but if anyone knows anything about it, input would be greatly appreciated. I recently got insured with jewelers mutual. There is a cloud in the center of the stone somewhat near the bottom. I can clearly see it from all sides. It looks to me like there would still be plenty of room to go before hitting it but obviously I am no expert. I've heard that breaking is possible, but rare, and that over-heating can damage the stone also. I would LOVE to have a an HCA .6 TIC stone, but would be heartbroken (and in a lot of trouble with future husband) if I went through with this and broke my diamond. It would be at least a two-hour drive there and back to see Richard Sherwood but I would not want to see anyone not highly recommended here. I think I will eventually go but will have to find a whole day I can free up. Timothy Shuler is an appraiser listed here and is much closer to my home, so I'd be glad to hear anyone's experiences with him. Any more info or opinions more than welcome, thanks again!
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From what I understand, it is difficult to find insurance which will cover a diamond for a recut, also the cutter usually won't take responsibility, so you would need to consider that although many stones make it through the cutting process just fine, some do not, so if you were unlucky that the diamond broke or shattered, you would have to take the loss possibly.

Give it a little bit of time, then see how you feel, if you still want to pursue a partial or full recut, contact Rich.
 
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