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Real world clarity (VS vs SI)

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newAthis

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5
I am in process of buying my first engagement ring. Like all of us (I assume), I started with 4Cs.

I think I settled on most of them except clarity. Most of "online guides" say that anything above SI-2 is invisible to naked eye. Everything was fine until I saw pictures of actual diamonds on JA site. SI grade diamonds have a lot of inclusions. I realize that those pictures are magnified as is.

I thought I would ask you if it is in fact true and you can''t see inclusions with naked eye on SI2 grade diamonds? I also noticed that some SI grade diamonds have A LOT of smaller inclusions, while others have one but big. What would be your preference?

Some info:

My ring budget is roughly $5,000, which puts diamond at around $4,000 + simple platinum setting. I am thinking 1-1.1 carat diamond , Ideal Cut, I color.


I live in NYC and plan to go to 47th street to see actual diamonds.


Thank you,
 
Date: 5/10/2010 11:27:02 PM
Author:newAthis
I am in process of buying my first engagement ring. Like all of us (I assume), I started with 4Cs.

I think I settled on most of them except clarity. Most of ''online guides'' say that anything above SI-2 is invisible to naked eye. Everything was fine until I saw pictures of actual diamonds on JA site. SI grade diamonds have a lot of inclusions. I realize that those pictures are magnified as is.

I thought I would ask you if it is in fact true and you can''t see inclusions with naked eye on SI2 grade diamonds? I also noticed that some SI grade diamonds have A LOT of smaller inclusions, while others have one but big. What would be your preference?

Some info:

My ring budget is roughly $5,000, which puts diamond at around $4,000 + simple platinum setting. I am thinking 1-1.1 carat diamond , Ideal Cut, I color.


I live in NYC and plan to go to 47th street to see actual diamonds.


Thank you,
Click to expand...
If a guide says that by GIA or AGS standards an SI2 will have no inclusions visible with naked eye it''s lying.. if this is a specific vendor''s definition for his/her goods that''s different. GIA & AGS tell you about inclusion visibility through a 10x loupe only.

You can''t tell anything about the visibility of inclusions from photographs - they''re 2D, they''re static, and often visibility depends on lighting and orientation. My usual warning: in a 1ct GIA or AGS SI2 expect to see some inclusion(s) in some lights from some angles from some distances.
 
I would stick with SI1 or higher unless you really trust the vendor and trust yourself to be able to verify that it is eyeclean.

I live in NYC too and actually prefer using the online vendors like Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, and Good Old GOld to going to the diamond district.

I have had great interactions with YEkutiel at ID jewelry and he has great stones, so that is one diamond district vendor I would recommend. But in general the diamond district feels rushed, I don''t feel like I have time to evaluate the diamonds, vendors don''t typically have a lot of information, and I don''t find the prices and return/upgrade policies to be better than online vendors--infact typically, for the quality, I find th online vendors to be better priced.
 
Date: 5/11/2010 12:13:35 AM
Author: Bella_mezzo
I would stick with SI1 or higher unless you really trust the vendor and trust yourself to be able to verify that it is eyeclean.

I live in NYC too and actually prefer using the online vendors like Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, and Good Old GOld to going to the diamond district.

I have had great interactions with YEkutiel at ID jewelry and he has great stones, so that is one diamond district vendor I would recommend. But in general the diamond district feels rushed, I don''t feel like I have time to evaluate the diamonds, vendors don''t typically have a lot of information, and I don''t find the prices and return/upgrade policies to be better than online vendors--infact typically, for the quality, I find th online vendors to be better priced.
Click to expand...
Ditto to all of this.

Also, I think that your budget may be a little tight to get a really well cut stone that is over 1ct. I would suggest instead that you aim for the .90ct range that way you do nto need to make too many compromises on color or clarity. It will look the same size, but such a stone -- say H SI1 and ideal cut -- will probably look a lot better than a less well cut I Si2.
 
Thank you for all advices.

As far as size goes, I was planning for 1 carat max, maybe a bit smaller, but after browsing online inventories 1 carat ideal cut diamond is a possibility in my price range (i might push budget 10% or so), given that the setting I want is roughly $1000 everywhere.

I think I will stick to SI1 and above, possibly VS2 and smaller size.

As far as Diamond District. I have never seen diamond in real life and I would like to see what 1 carat looks like before I buy it. It is possible I would buy diamond on one of the sites you mentioned (I''ve seen their inventories before posting here).

If diamond comes with certification, I would assume same-stats diamonds would look identical in store or from online retailer. That''s why the scale was invented in first place right?
 
Here are some options...like DD said, your budget is a little tight for a 1 carat stone...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7060/
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1289505.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
(need to check for eye-clean and about light leakage)

Thats about all I found doing the Cut Quality search...there are probably more out there but I have to run.

Just a few more...

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040397620052
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040381680039
 
Date: 5/11/2010 8:45:16 AM
Author: newAthis
Thank you for all advices.

As far as size goes, I was planning for 1 carat max, maybe a bit smaller, but after browsing online inventories 1 carat ideal cut diamond is a possibility in my price range (i might push budget 10% or so), given that the setting I want is roughly $1000 everywhere.

I think I will stick to SI1 and above, possibly VS2 and smaller size.

As far as Diamond District. I have never seen diamond in real life and I would like to see what 1 carat looks like before I buy it. It is possible I would buy diamond on one of the sites you mentioned (I've seen their inventories before posting here).

If diamond comes with certification, I would assume same-stats diamonds would look identical in store or from online retailer. That's why the scale was invented in first place right?
Click to expand...
There are different grading agencies and no they are not all the same. Best to stick with AGS or GIA. EGL is much more lenient and
will be priced lower because it usually is (or may be) a lower clarity/color than what is posted. We have seen up to two color/clarity
grades off.

The cut is really the most important factor when buying a stone. You need to know what to look for. These are pretty quick reads
and will explain why the cut is so important.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond/
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-crown-and-pavilion/
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor/
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/ags-ideal-cut-diamond/

Honestly, your best bet if you dont know what to look for is to find a stone and post the numbers, pictures, ASET and idealscope
images here to get other peoples opinion/advice. If you dont want to go through all that we can recommend some stones (like
I did above).

Since you live in NY city you can go to some known and trusted vendors (need appointments I think though)

Good old gold - web_site
Engagment Rings Direct - web site
ID Jewelry - web site

EDIT - I forgot James Allen web site
 
I''m going through this process right now--just charged my diamond and the custom setting is on its way. Budget was the same (around 4000 for the stone), and I too originally wanted a 1 c. I ended up with a .90 c vs2. I did have a chance to look at a number of si1s and can tell you they vary. For the most part it''s difficult if not impossible for me as a layperson to see even big inclusions from the top (assuming, of course, a great cut). However, between the si1 and vs2 that I had it narrowed down to, the inclusions were obvious in the si1 even under 6x. I feared that I would keep seeing spots on the stone day-to-day even if they weren''t there just because I knew about the inclusions. If it doesn''t bother you, however, an si1 that is "eye clean" will get you a bigger stone (but not by much).

I ended up looking for a decent "spread" meaning the diameter was very close to that of a 1 carat. Though this can lead to cut problems.
 
Thank you for excellent advices.

I will stick to GIA and AGS. I will visit some stores this week to see the difference between 1 carat and 0.9 carat diamonds.

I am leaning towards 0.9 carat stone, but with G VS2 ratings or so. I am pretty strict about my budged and don''t really want to go over $5000.

Does JA have store in NYC? I can''t find any info on their site. Also, all of these sites have their personalized ratings (Hearts and Arrows, etc) how important is that?

Thank you,
 
here''s an example of one in your budget and specs.

0.902 G VS2

H&A refers to optical symmetry, see the tutorial under knowledge.
 
Another thing to think about is sales tax. I am not sure if NY requires you to pay sales tax for out of state purchases but CA doesn't. The current sales tax in my area is 9.25% - 9.75% (plus some vendors give PS discounts) which on $4-$5k is quite a bit of money. Just something else to think about.

On a side note: Has anyone seen anything definitive regarding "sparkle" vs diamond grade? Does the diamond loose noticeable sparkle or flash when going from say a VVS2 to an SI1?
 
Date: 5/10/2010 11:27:02 PM
Author:newAthis

I thought I would ask you if it is in fact true and you can''t see inclusions with naked eye on SI2 grade diamonds? I also noticed that some SI grade diamonds have A LOT of smaller inclusions, while others have one but big. What would be your preference?
Click to expand...
depends on your age and eye sight.when you get to my age every stone looks FLAWLESS!!
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