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Real or Fake Cartier?

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Bump. Does anyone have any expertise on this? I''m able to return it within the first week so the more I know before I get the ring, the better.
 
maybe contact cartier directly as to how you can authenticate a piece?
 
Thanks. Per your advice I contacted their customer service via email. Does anyone have any further opinions on this purchase? Considering this diamond is not GIA certified, does anyone know when Cartier began certifying their diamonds?
 
It might help to get it appraised...I dont know if they can tell you whether it is authenic or not but should be able
to tell you the quality of the stone and whether or not it was a decent buy.
https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx
 
As a general rule, the burden of proof of genuine provenance (origin and ownership history) falls upon the seller if they’re going to be using it as a selling point. In the case of designer pieces, the customary approach is some sort of receipt or documentation issued by the designer, in this case Cartier, authenticating the piece. For lack of a convincing case I would recommend you assume this and any other supposedly branded piece is NOT genuine and bid accordingly.

It’s a fairly recent phenomenon that customers are demanding lab paperwork on nearly every diamond but it doesn’t really matter when it started. The question to ask is WHO is calling it F/VVS2. As far as I can tell, that would be the seller and no one else. Maybe it is, but take it with a grain of salt. There is a massive conflict of interest inherent in this claim.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Neil,

Thanks for the advice. My only purpose in bringing up the GIA certification is that this ring, from 1970, does not appear to have it. If Cartier, at the time, carried all GIA certified diamonds (as they do now), I would be inclined to believe this ring is not authentic.

Regarding the grade he gave it, I intend to have the ring appraised which would clear up his claims. Thanks again for the help!
 
I have spoken with the seller on the phone and he is very pleasant and helpful, and it seems like he has a lot of experience in the jewelry industry.

Yesterday I sent him an email regarding my concerns with the authenticity of this ring. He replied:

"I have dealt with this many times with people. Cartier (NYC Store) can verify....but it takes along time and is very expensive(Typical Cartier). So unless you are dealing with a very expensive vintage piece it is better to have it looked at by a high end jeweler. One time I had a customer go to the NYC main store and they sent him to a jeweler around the corner because it was: As I said too expensive and time consuming. Can you believe Cartier sent them to someone else.100% Guranteed Cartier......RJ"

I called Cartier''s customer service line today and, sure enough, the authentication service was pricey, to the tune of $1200, and she said it could take anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months.

Does anyone know if there are local vintage high-end jewelers who have enough expertise that they would know whether or not this is authentic?
 
do you live near nyc?
 
Seattle, actually.
 
i would suggest you take it to someone who is an independant appraiser who has experience with fine jewelry then. someone who is familiar with the marks and other indicators of authenticity. why do you see if you can get recs for someone via pricescope.
 
Paying $1200 to authenticate a $2000 piece does seem a little silly but it really does depend on what’s important to you. It’s easy enough for a 3rd party, like a qualified independent appraiser, to evaluate a piece for the quality of workmanship and materials and to recognize the marks as being what Cartier uses or has used in the past. For most uses this is entirely sufficient and it can be done significantly faster and for less money. There’s a list of appraisers at the top of the page under resources. If what you need is a search of Cartier’s records in order to provide a history that they made that particular piece, only Cartier can provide this service because only they have access to the records. That research is what is taking so long and why they’re charging so much for it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
I would take the word of this seller as honest since I have known of this firm my entire career as being one of those a dealer can trust. My father had long term dealings with one or more of the Nelkin''s and never had an issue with description of merchandise. They have a reputation that I believe they would not wish to lose over a sale of an engagement ring.
 
Thanks, David. That''s actually really assuring.

I''m still planning on getting it appraised just so I do my part in making sure everything is as described, so does anyone out there know of someone in Seattle who has good knowledge of Cartier?
 
Of several NAJA appraisers out your way, the following are ones I have best knowledge of and who may be suitable for authentication. Karen Lorene has a wonderful store in Seattle, but she is very capable of providing unbiased advice. Her store is tiny, but wonderful to visit. Worth the trip just to see it. The other two are strictly appraisers and both highly competent.


Lacy
John Vivian GG
Certified Master Appraiser
360.280.0154


Seattle
Karen Lorene
Senior Member
206.624.6768

Tacoma
Karen Jensen GG
Certified Senior Member
253.471.9669



 
Thanks for the referrals. I contacted Karen Jensen via email since I live in Tacoma.

As for Karen Lorene''s store, do you know the name of it? Might be an interesting place to check out. Thanks!
 
Date: 10/18/2009 2:45:06 PM
Author: Ghumbs
As for Karen Lorene's store, do you know the name of it? Might be an interesting place to check out. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Here 'ya go.
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Facere Jewelry and Art

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Neil, pretty interesting read there on her ''about'' page, which on most folks'' sites is a fairly short and generic paragraph or two, but in this case is a lengthy collection of personal stories about the antique and boutique jewelry business over a 40 year career. Neat.
 
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