Ready to pull the trigger on this diamond

[RN01]

I have been browsing the forums for several months looking to educate myself. Thank you all for your wealth of knowledge! I will be proposing to my GF in 3 weeks and have been researching on Blue Nile and visiting local jewelers. Many of the jeweler visits were high pressure situations so my focus has evolved to only include online vendors. I enjoy Blue Nile because of the ease to compare stones and view certs.

I came across the following stone and would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Round Brilliant
2.05 carat
F
VS2
EX / EX / EX
GIA Certified

56% Table
62.4% Depth
35.5 Crown Angle
40.6 Pavillion Angle

2 Inclusions - Small crystal near center of table, a few feathers near edge
HCA Score: 1.4 - Excellent

Price: $30,500

I have a friend advising me through this process who purchased a ring for his wife last year. He is hesitant because of proportions of the stone claiming they table and depth should be closer.

Thank you again for your consideration and assistance. I am looking to finalize my purchase this week.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Scores a 1.4 on the HCA. Table and depth do not need to be closer; he may be thinking of a 60/60 diamond where the table and depth are both abround 60. That is not criteria for H&A ideal cut stones.

From first blush, it looks like a nice stone. Which lab graded it? Unfortunately, BN does not offer IS images of their stones so you would have to make a decision based on the cert. If you didn't like it, BN does have a good return policy.

 

[webdiva]

It's a little deep but what's more worrying is spending $30k without a guarantee of light performance. You want to go with a vendor that can do an idealscope to see the light performance. GIA Excellent has a broad range and isn't always "excellent"!

Are you open to going down in color a bit or clarity? I see a lot of diamonds where you can save a chunk of change for the same carat weight.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384437.asp
You would need to ask JA if the inclusion at 4 o'clock is visible.

This 2.01 H SI2 looks eye clean and has an AGS000 certification - proven light performance:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384437.asp
$17k

2.03 H VS2 - $23k - AGS0 but no light performance on the cert, so you'd need to ask for an idealscope
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1491858.asp

2.18 H VS2 - $27k - AGS000
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1436337.asp

2.01 G SI1 - $23k - AGS0 - needs idealscope
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1423218.asp

2.11 F SI2 H&A - AGS000 - $23k
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1315169.asp

This is just one vendor - Good Old Good, Brian Gavin Diamonds and Whiteflash are others you can take a look at.

 

[move1986]

For round brilliant i think you should consider Brian Gavin Diamonds. There is an article comparing Hearts on Fire with Brian Gavin and the result is the same brilliant but more affordable pricing.

Here are 2 of the diamond one from his Hearts and Arrow series and the other from his Brian Gavin Blue series.
Here is a video of the blue series diamond under diff lighting condition by his customer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzkPLyqZVg

and below are the 2 diamonds
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.026-H-SI1-Round-Diamond-AGS-104059065013#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/1/
though it is SI1 but it is totally eye clean. no need to worry.
HCA: 1.5

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.103-I-VS2-Round-Diamond-AGS-BL-104059901005#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/3/
HCA: 1.5

 

[2023]

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/mss/gia-agspgs.phtml

This link maybe helpful for you. It has varying table percentages and correlating crown and pavilion angles for what GIA ex and AGS0 cut diamonds are. I found it on a discussion on PS between Gary Hollaway and others.

Do you know what the percentage crown height is?
The AGA calculator takes into account percent depth and percent crown height and table percent so you could try that.

Hopefully these other tools may help you more.
Stone looks beautiful.

 

[RN01]

Many thanks for your suggestions. I am open to going down in color and clarity for the right stone. My criteria has been:

Above 2 carat
G or higher
VS2 or higher
No Culet
Ex / Ex/ Ex
No Fluorescence
No inclusions which scare me - knot, cavity, extra facet
Excellent HCA score

I found the F colored stone while looking amongst a list of G diamonds and it stood out as a good value for color and clarity. I will look through the recommended site and let you know.

 

[yssie]

The original stone - BN has a generous return policy and the numbers are fine, if the F is good value for money there's nothing to lose by having it shipped out to look at in-person except return shipping if it doesn't live up to expectations. What PPs are saying is that without more info (that BN does not provide) there's no way to be sure that it will live up to expectations before you buy, so the only way to find out is to buy it and see it yourself (and possibly be out the return shipping...)

Post the details of the report - everything on the proportions diagram, inclusions plot, age of report, any comments.

 

[RN01]

Here is the cert

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Looks like a very nice choice! I love F or G VS stones, too!

 

[TitanCi]

I think it's funny when people say they've been lurking/browsing the forum for months, reading all the threads, then post up a stone with the HCA but it's still a sight-unseen stone, ready to buy. Although it's the first step, if one's been lurking then one knows there's more to it than just HCA. To me it seems contradictory.

Can you get another one of the vendors to call in this stone so they can evaluate it with the proper tools for you, OP? Generally, the board recommends buying stones that you can actually see somehow (photos, IS images) and there are a few vendors that should be able to call the stone in for you, although Yssie did mention the return policy with this BN stone. That's the problem with BN's virtual inventory - no one there has seen it.

ETA: I see that you dropped that first stone.

 

[RN01]

I think it's funny when people say they've been lurking/browsing the forum for months, reading all the threads, then post up a stone with the HCA but it's still a sight-unseen stone, ready to buy. Although it's the first step, if one's been lurking then one knows there's more to it than just HCA. To me it seems contradictory.

Can you get another one of the vendors to call in this stone so they can evaluate it with the proper tools for you, OP? Generally, the board recommends buying stones that you can actually see somehow (photos, IS images) and there are a few vendors that should be able to call the stone in for you, although Yssie did mention the return policy with this BN stone. That's the problem with BN's virtual inventory - no one there has seen it.

ETA: I see that you dropped that first stone.

When buying online, one can only make a decision based upon information provided by the vendor. The risk for buying unseen is one that I am willing to take when BN has a 30 day return policy. Are you uncomfortable with the process of purchasing online? That is for a separate thread.

I used HCA as a supplement to the GIA rating for cut, symmetry, and polish. While I have read conflicting reports on the significance of HCA, an excellent score certainly cannot be a negative factor. It is just another measure.

Do you suggest I purchase an ideal scope? The Brian Gavin diamonds come a at heavy premium for the confidence in knowing the different measures of the stone - idealscope, sarin, aset. I can purchase the ideal scope for $100 and verify myself.

 

[TitanCi]

^I bought my stone online thru JA. So yes, I am comfortable buying online and WILL buy online again.

I don't think you necessarily need to buy an IS unless you're looking at stones in stores. I was trying to convey to you that having one of the PS vendors call THAT particular stone in is a good idea since they can snap photos of it and then use the IS to show you light performance. There are a few vendors that have direct access to BN's inventory too. Give them THAT cert no. and they may be able to get the stone in for you, do the evals, and then tell you what you want to know about the stone; they'll be your eyes for the moment.



My whole point about the lurking is I've read SO MANY threads about how people have been lurking and this or that, then say they've read so much, followed so many other threads, and then when they come to post they leave out a ton of critical info about a stone (which you didn't) or just say they're ready to buy a stone without having seen it (which we advise against). Didn't mean to offend you in particular, it just happened to be your thread I commented in.

 

[RN01]

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/mss/gia-agspgs.phtml

This link maybe helpful for you. It has varying table percentages and correlating crown and pavilion angles for what GIA ex and AGS0 cut diamonds are. I found it on a discussion on PS between Gary Hollaway and others.

Do you know what the percentage crown height is?
The AGA calculator takes into account percent depth and percent crown height and table percent so you could try that.

Hopefully these other tools may help you more.
Stone looks beautiful.

Thank you for the link. Attached is the report. Still GIA excellent but close to the limit.

 

[RN01]

AGS Gold Cut Rating

Edit: Had the wrong box highlighted.

 

[yssie]

EX=EX=EX. The middle of the EX range isn't better than the edges because it's the middle. On PS many feel that some GIA EX proportions combos are "better" than others, but again, the better ones aren't better because they're in the middle of the EX range.

High crown/shallow pav types like the one you're looking at are my favourite RBs. Lots of coloured light return through a variety of lighting types (but you sacrifice a bit of white light return to see the extra colour).


ETA: the AGSL Gold report assigns a proportions-based cut grade like GIA does - doesn't use ray tracing programme evaluation like the DQD Platinum report. The DQD is the more prestigious report - it's the one that's referenced when you see talk of AGS0 here on PS

 

[RN01]

^I bought my stone online thru JA. So yes, I am comfortable buying online and WILL buy online again.

I don't think you necessarily need to buy an IS unless you're looking at stones in stores. I was trying to convey to you that having one of the PS vendors call THAT particular stone in is a good idea since they can snap photos of it and then use the IS to show you light performance. There are a few vendors that have direct access to BN's inventory too. Give them THAT cert no. and they may be able to get the stone in for you, do the evals, and then tell you what you want to know about the stone; they'll be your eyes for the moment.

My whole point about the lurking is I've read SO MANY threads about how people have been lurking and this or that, then say they've read so much, followed so many other threads, and then when they come to post they leave out a ton of critical info about a stone (which you didn't) or just say they're ready to buy a stone without having seen it (which we advise against). Didn't mean to offend you in particular, it just happened to be your thread I commented in.

Thank you for the clarification. No offense taken. I was unaware that other vendors have access to BN inventory. Can you PM or post a vendor for me to work with on this? Agreed, it would fantastic to have further insight on the light performance and other factors before making a formal commitment. Even though its refundable, Im a bit uncomfortable having such an expensive item go back and forth on my account.

 

[webdiva]

Idjewelryonline.com

 

[yssie]

And also WF, BGD, and GOG can pull stones as well, and I assume other vendors can too depending on where it is, who owns it, who has possession of it, whether it's actually currently available (my stone stayed on BN's listing for several months after WF pulled it, inspected it, set it, and I stuck it on my finger)
... downsides of the virtual inventory. But that was a couple of years ago, I'd hope the whole diamond-sharing system is more reliable now!

 

[RN01]

Ugh, spoke with BN rep. The crystal inclusion is white and black.

 

[webdiva]

Ugh, spoke with BN rep. The crystal inclusion is white and black.

Don't be sad - there's a ton of other options I listed, cheaper! Happy Shopping!

 

[2023]

That's great they were able to assess that for you. There is another thread (can't link to it sorry) emsally007 is the author and its still on the front page that may help you (about BN looking at the diamonds). Also another poster roofman spoke to idjewellery about bringing in a BN stone for him, just letting you know for that service there was a markup on the diamond, not sure what his final decision is yet, but he was a bit dusappointed with the additional cost.

As for inclusions, IMO for inclusions its best to stay away from the table of the diamond. It may be best to keep away from feathers at the girdle too. At VS2 you should be able to find an eyeclean diamond easily.

Good luck.

 

[Christina...]

Ugh, spoke with BN rep. The crystal inclusion is white and black.

Did you specifically ask the color of the inclusion, or if you could see the inclusion with the naked eye? It's possible that the inclusion is located within the stone at such a position that you would not be able to locate. Generally VS2s are eye clean, so perhaps you asked the wrong question? Eye cleanliness is evaluate from the face up position, so when inquiring you should ask if inclusions can be seen through the pavilion, if that's at all important to you.

2023 just saw your post about the additional fee at IDJ for calling in stones. I wasn't aware of that, I'll have to read the thread, in the past I had read that he will call them in and also beat BNs price. interesting.

 

[2023]

Hi Christina, unfortunately he was going to be charged a bit more. He went in in person though and got to compare some colours which was great, but said he had to be very selective of the stones he brought in (couldn't bring in many) and apparently they said to him because of rent, overheads etc they had to charge him a bit more. The OP was roofman.

 

[Christina...]

That's great they were able to assess that for you. There is another thread (can't link to it sorry) emsally007 is the author and its still on the front page that may help you (about BN looking at the diamonds). Also another poster roofman spoke to idjewellery about bringing in a BN stone for him, just letting you know for that service there was a markup on the diamond, not sure what his final decision is yet, but he was a bit dusappointed with the additional cost.

As for inclusions, IMO for inclusions its best to stay away from the table of the diamond. It may be best to keep away from feathers at the girdle too. At VS2 you should be able to find an eyeclean diamond easily.

Good luck.

I think you misunderstood his response. This is what he said...


I ended up going to ID JEWELERS on my own and they were very nice and helpfully but their prices were still higher which I understand because leases etc,etc.so I did ask if they could call a stone for me instead and they were willing to do that for me but he asked to narrow my search a bit which I could also understand because I had a few stones that I wanted to look at.

I think that the OP of that thread was unaware of IDJ's Best Price Program listed on there website and linked here....
http://idjewelryonline.com/best_price.php


OP, I would still consider having IDJ or any of the other vendors call in the stone for you and have them take the images that you need to properly assess the stone before purchase, although it sounds as though you may have changed your mind on this particular diamond?

 

[2023]

If you could explain that to roofman in his thread and clarify that, that would be great, it confused me as to why he would say the price difference sure as he has very specific stones he was looking at. I had just copied the information from another thread about idjewellery for him, and he replied after he went to the store. I felt pretty bad after when he said the prices were higher, so if that's wrong that's really great.

 

[RN01]

I still have the diamond on reserve until tomorrow. I asked Blue Nile to provide more information on the crystal inclusion to which they responded it is eye clean but the crystal is black and white. I also found out the diamond is located in Mumbai - it was impressive that they were able to get a response within 24 hrs.

After reading the replies to my post, I searched on the James Allen website and reached out to them. They are in the process of providing a idealscope image of another stone. So far, very impressed with their service, recognition of forum participants, and willingness to provide further information.

The James Allen diamond has the following specs:

Round Brilliant
2.06
G
VS2
Triple Excellent

Table: 57%
Depth: 61.6%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8

HCA Score: 1.4 - Excellent

Please let me know your thoughts. How does it compare to the original BN diamond - Should I purchase an ideal scope for $100, test it myself and take and chance with the crystal? It is less money and higher color.

 

[Christina...]

If you could explain that to roofman in his thread and clarify that, that would be great, it confused me as to why he would say the price difference sure as he has very specific stones he was looking at. I had just copied the information from another thread about idjewellery for him, and he replied after he went to the store. I felt pretty bad after when he said the prices were higher, so if that's wrong that's really great.

sure I'll let him know. I suppose anything is possible, but I think that he assumed the price difference was because of overhead, when in fact it could have been any number of things. I'll post again and try to be more specific.

 

[2023]

Both look great you will save some money going to G and it will still look white, others may have some opinions F vs G, F is probably a premium you pay for but if you had the choice of F vs G...

 

[Christina...]

JA stone looks good, you don't need to purchase anything, unless of course you want to view it yourself at home. Just ask JA to do the images for you and have their gemologist evaluate it. Post the IS when you get it and we can offer you more input but it looks promising, and I'd be much more comfortable being able to view the actual magnified images before making the purchase. I've used JA several times and they have been wonderful. Free return shipping too if you decide that you don't love the stone and 60 days to decided.

 

[RN01]

I believe I have found the one! Priced a little high but the table is completely clear. Was just searching around on BN.

Round Brilliant
2.02
VS2
Triple Ex

Table - 56%
Depth - 62.8%
Crown Angle - 35
Pavilion Angle - 40.8

HCA Score - 1.7