Rapaport Diamond Report: March 2012

[TRIALnERROR]

Not sure if this is useful for anyone, but I stumbled upon it today:

**edited by moderator. please do not post links to materials that violate copyright policies**

 

[watson80]

thank you for posting this. What in your opinion is a good % discount from rap report you can get from a wholesaler in NYC? i heard a few years back its about 20% below and better stones (ex F-Flawless) go way above rap. thanks

 

[Dancing Fire]

thank you for posting this. What in your opinion is a good % discount from rap report you can get from a wholesaler in NYC? i heard a few years back its about 20% below and better stones (ex F-Flawless) go way above rap. thanks

depends on what lab graded the stone + the cut quality of the stone... if you can buy a GIA or AGS top ideal cut H&A stone for 20% back...GO FOR IT

 

[TitanCi]

^^Watson: I had a "wholesaler" give me 5% off one stone, and 15%+ off other stones when I showed prices on the JA site. It depends, but IIRC, Rapaport is full retail high cash price or something ridiculous like that, correct me if wrong.

The BEST discount I got was for a princess cut - near 23% off. But I overpaid for that POS stone!!! So was it a discount? Yes - based off pure carat weight, but was it a deal? Hell fackin no!




Hey TrialnError - did you end up keeping the stone or what's up? I forget what ended up happening in your thread!

 

[TRIALnERROR]

^^Watson: I had a "wholesaler" give me 5% off one stone, and 15%+ off other stones when I showed prices on the JA site. It depends, but IIRC, Rapaport is full retail high cash price or something ridiculous like that, correct me if wrong.

The BEST discount I got was for a princess cut - near 23% off. But I overpaid for that POS stone!!! So was it a discount? Yes - based off pure carat weight, but was it a deal? Hell fackin no!




Hey TrialnError - did you end up keeping the stone or what's up? I forget what ended up happening in your thread!

Hey Titan, I have the stone and I'm still deciding as I'm within the return-policy period. Our local jeweler was able to locate the GIA inscription under magnification, so that put us at ease regarding authenticity. I was contemplating downgrading from IF to a VS2 H&A of similar carat weight to save a little coin, but after checking things like Rap and current selling prices of similar IF's, I'm leaning towards keeping it. I read that IF stones typically sell for higher than Rap, is that true? Most of the IF's I found on bluenile with similar traits (1.2 ct, I) had HCA scores > 4.0 and were selling for $10,000+. The cheapest comparable I found on JA is selling for $11,400 with an HCA of 4.1 (http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-IF-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1446932.asp). I paid Rap back 25% for this stone and it has an HCA of 1.6. I'd appreciate any advice you might have regarding whether or not this was truly a good deal. If it was only a marginally good deal, I would probably be inclined to return it. I'm still having issues with getting a clear Ideal-Scope image (on my third digital camera), but hopefully I will be able to post a decent pic before I have to make a final decision. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[denverappraiser]

Trial,

The FIRST standard of a ‘good deal’ is that you must get what you want.

This might be interesting reading from the journal.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/why_isn%E2%80%99t_rapaport_pricing_important_consumers

You are far better off using the database here and on similar sites to compare actual offers of actual stones as a way of identifying a bargain rather than by trying to compare against a theoretical listing of ‘High cash New York asking prices’ that doesn't consider variables like cut and grading accuracy (this is Rap’s description, not mine. It's at the very bottom of the sheet).

 

[TRIALnERROR]

Trial,

The FIRST standard of a ‘good deal’ is that you must get what you want.

This might be interesting reading from the journal.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/why_isn%E2%80%99t_rapaport_pricing_important_consumers

You are far better off using the database here and on similar sites to compare actual offers of actual stones as a way of identifying a bargain rather than by trying to compare against a theoretical listing of ‘High cash New York asking prices’ that doesn't consider variables like cut and grading accuracy (this is Rap’s description, not mine. It's at the very bottom of the sheet).

Thanks for the article Denver. I understand the shortfalls with Rap, which is why I was using it as a baseline to compare against the current prices I'm finding online. The PS database confirms my findings of $10,000+ with HCA scores > 4.0 for similar stones. My standard for a 'good deal' is 20% off current retail price. I realize that 'retail' is a nebulous term with regard to the diamond industry, hence the effort to zero in on an accurate price. I'm hoping to post a couple of decent Ideal-Scope images and I would greatly appreciate your professional opinion on them.

 

[denverappraiser]

Back when I went to business school, 'retail' was actually pretty well defined. It was the price being charged by dealers selling things one at a time directly to the end consumer. That is to say, exactly what JamesAllen is doing here. So is BlueNile, Abazias, BrianGavin and thousands of others who publicly list their prices online. I'd venture to guess that you're well informed about who is selling what for how much in this marketplace, at least with regards to stones like what you're considering. As I'm sure you know, prices in the market for genuinely comparable goods are actually pretty consistent and don't vary anything like 20%. 'Retail price' as in what the most expensive store in Beverly Hills would ask before discounting is completely irrelevant. I think you're operating from a false premise. Discount from 'retail prices' means nothing because 'retail price' means nothing.

 

[TRIALnERROR]

Back when I went to business school, 'retail' was actually pretty well defined. It was the price being charged by dealers selling things one at a time directly to the end consumer. That is to say, exactly what JamesAllen is doing here. So is BlueNile, Abazias, BrianGavin and thousands of others who publicly list their prices online. This is exactly the marketplace you're shopping and, as I'm sure you know, prices for genuinely comparable goods are actually pretty consistent and don't vary anything like 20%. 'Retail price' as in what the most expensive store in Beverly Hills would ask before discounting is completely irrelevant. I think you're operating from a false premise. Discount from 'retail prices' means nothing because 'retail price' means nothing.

That's where the rub is. I paid over 20% less than comparable stones on the sites you listed. As a novice, I wanted to confirm my findings before making a final decision. Thank you for your candid feedback.

 

[sleeprequired]

What cut, polish and proportions are those prices listed for?? Those prices seem to be lower that the going price for the very best premium stones online...

 

[TRIALnERROR]

What cut, polish and proportions are those prices listed for?? Those prices seem to be lower that the going price for the very best premium stones online...

That is exactly what I am finding as well. The stones for $10,000 have HCA scores > 4.0, some have fluro, etc.

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s almost certainly a matter of what you count as ‘comparable’. At the margin you can find the exact same stone being offered by different vendors. It’s hard to get more comparable than that but otherwise you need to look for things that are otherwise similar and try to separate out what is the cause of the difference.

HCA has a rather small correlation to price. It does tend to affect speed of sales, at least in the listings here. (High HCA’s stick around for a long time or get sold somewhere else, low HCA’s sell quickly, especially stones in otherwise popular ranges like F-H, VS2-SI2, 0.9-1.3cts.)

Fluorescence affects price to the tune of 5% for medium although this sometimes goes up with higher colors. Strong is a little more discounted and very tough to sell. Very strong make a stone nearly unsaleable so they get rebranded and come back as something else. You rarely see them.

GIA cut grade has a direct correlation to price. X is generally at least 5% above an otherwise similar VG.

Polish and symmetry of X/X drives up the price by several percent over VG/VG or even X/VG or VG/X.

Anything G or below drives down the price. Anything F or below makes a stone almost unsaleable and it’ll be rebranded as something else. They’re hard to find for that reason.

Old grading dates saves a few percent.

‘Branding’ adds 5-15% depending on the company involved.